I need help with a Siberian Husky. If anyone here really knows this breed
please email me? Thanks.

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On Sat, 19 Mar 2005 19:31:15 -0500, "Jen R."
wrote:

I need help with a Siberian Husky. If anyone here really knows this breed
please email me? Thanks.

There are at least a couple of people who have one or more Siberian
Huskies and are quite familiar with them. If you post your
question(s), I'm sure someone will respond.

Mustang Sally

HOWEDY racetrack silly,

You MURDERED your own DEAD dog on accHOWENT
of you couln't train IT.

From: "Jerry Howe" -
Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 18:12:17 GMT
Subject: Poo Eating

Hello People,:

Hello lyingdogDUMMY,

"Antonio Eduardo Katz" wrote in message
...

"Paul B" =AD wrote:

People come here asking for advice, "How do I
stop my dog from eating poo?" and they want to
know how to train the dog so it stops, not get stupid
comments like " pick up the poo so it won't eat it".

Yo, Paul...they got good advice...CLEAN UP AFTER
THEIR DOGS.

You say that because WE know why you don't HAVE
any training advice for this problem. The TRAINING
ADVICE you would have to give, would require BEATING
THE DOG.

If you think's there's a quick and easy way of training
a dog not to eat its own ****, especially after the behavior
has been strongly REINFORCED over time, and without
using LOTS OF PUNISHMENT, then go right ahead and tell
everyone here how to do it, okay?

He already did. Long ago. He explained HOWE
my instructions broke his dogs of eating the kat
food, kat litter, sleeping on the couch, digging
holes, and escaping the fence...

Seems you got a short memory. And that's not all...

Why just whine about other people?

Whine? You're supposed to be the expert.
Give us some TRAINIG ADVICE.

You know, I'm surprised you came back here
again to face such utter embarassment. You
insult yourself, as you try to insult every reader
and every dog with your koehler training. I'll
post some below for ya...

And if any other trainer out there would like to
take a crack at it, please feel free to tell us how
*you'd* do it, too.

The same way we snake proof and poison proof,
and teach them not to get on the couch, and not
to eat kat poo, and kat food, and not to jump the
fence, chew furniture, counter surf, shall I continue?
Not to bark, not to whine, not to jump, not to dig
holes, bark excessively, SHALL I CONTINUE?

Yes, STEP BY STEP.

Look up today's post "sound distraction and praise technique."

This is about the stupidest thread I've ever seen
on this newsgroup and that covers a lot of ground.

Your right about that. This question about $#!T covers EVERYTHING we
been fighting about since I came in
here to DISCUSS these matters with you and our Gang
Of Thugs...

EVERYTHING YOU COULD POSSIBLY WANT TO
TRAIN YOUR DOG, can be done MORE QUICKLY
and MORE PROFICIENTLY, using NON FORCE,
NON CONFRONTATIONAL methods. Even a five
year old child can do it, with a little of mommy's
help (That would be to provide the can, pennies,
and scotch tape.).

Geeeeeeeeeez...just CLEAN UP AFTER YOUR
DOGS and the "problem" goes away overnight!

You scout out your dog's behind if that's what you
like. Your BUDDY marybeth enjoys the convienience
of letting her dogs eat it before it his the deck. And
blackman likes to spice it up with Volcano Hot Sauce
and feed it back to the dog...

You'd have to brutalize the dog to train him, that's why
you should take them other bums with you, and go
somewehre that kind of advice is appreciated.

We dont want to play with poo, or stick our nose up
the dog's butt every moment he's outside, and we
don't want to tolerate that beahvior, and we don't
want to worry about it, SO WE TRAIN THE DOG!

AMAZING, Eh? Huh? Eh? Eh? Huh? Huh? Huh? Eh? Eh? Huh?

I assume most posters have more than a wafer
of intelligence and realise that picking up the poo
b4 the dog does is not a very ractical solution but
realise how obvious a suggestion like that is.

If it's so freakin' obvious, why aren't they doing it?????

Picking up the yard isn't the problem. That's a NON SOLUTION.

Training dogs not to eat **** of any kind is not that hard.

Then tell us how you do it, STEP BY STEP, Paul!

What your doing is ADMITTING you don't know HOWE.

Right here, between the arrow heads, so everyone can see it:
----------------

SEE MY POST "SOUND DISTRACTION AND PRAISE
TECHNIQUE" -------------------

UNDERSTAND?

The fact that you don't clean up after your dog everytime
it goes in the backyard does not mean you are a disgusting
SOB,

No, its means you're a *LAZY* SOB.

You got it. That's why I train dogs for a living. I don't
have to bust my butt to do it. Sit right here and teach
people like Paul what he needed to know to be able
to train his dog to do anything he wants, WITHOWET
HURTING HIM.

That's what's really killing you bums. You bums even
try to say using sound is aversive, just to be able to
deny we're NOT hurting dogs. GIVE UP!

a couple of dog poo's lying in the yard for a
day is not going to spark a national health hazard.

Who said it was???????

Then why not leave it till later?

Come on Paul, tell us all how to get a dog who has
been eating **** for a long time (i.e., the behavior is
strongly reinforced), and without using PUNISHMENT,
to stop.

SEE? You can't train a dog without HURTING HIM.

Come on, buddy...the stage is all yours.

It's called CONDITIONING.

Dogman


Here's Disciple Paulie:

Disciple Paulie Sez: "No One Understands How Wits End
Training Really Works, They Assume It's All Nicey Nicey
And don't Realise It's A Very Disciplined Method That
Deals With Any Situation And The Foundation Is Built
On Trust And Understanding."

Disciple Paulie Writes:

I've never forced my dogs to do anything, I tell them
they are good dogs and they seem to follow me, once
I told them they were bad dogs and they ran away from
me, now I only ever tell them they are good dogs and
they always are, always.

Trust your dog, ask it to do your request and
say "good dog" sincerely at the end of the
request and I bet you'll find your dog thinking
then responding everytime.

A bit of respect works wonders, the same rule
applies to every aspect of the relationship with
your dog.

Obedience and affection are not related, if they
were everyone would have obedient dogs.

Paul.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D


From: Paul B )
Subject: Dog vs cat food (stealing cat food)
Date: 2001-03-03 22:18:03 PST

It's possible to teach a dog not to eat out of a cat
bowl without too much difficulty.

My dogs don't touch the food in the cat bowls although
Roz licks up any bits that have been dropped around
the bowls
:-)

I used a can with stones in it to create a distraction
anytime the dogs tried to eat the cats food, followed
with immediate praise. It worked a treat.

The cats bowls are down all the time, usually there is
food left over but the dogs don't eat it, even if we
go out and leave the dogs with access inside through a
dog door.

Paul

--
Obedience and affection are not related, if they
were everyone would have obedient dogs.

See the dogs, cats, us and pics of NZ etc at my
homepage.....

http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/paulbousie/index.html

Updated regularly (last time 23 Jan 01) so keep coming
back!!!

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D

"Paul B" wrote in message
...

********, the manual has no dangerous suggestions at
all, people who find the manual useful are those
that don't need to control a dog to satisfy their
own ego but simply want a well behaved dog that is
easy to live with. I would suggest the people who
follow the advice in his manual are people who have
already tried other inefficient methods and are fed
up with the poor results.

The more I think about the methods he suggests the
more sense it makes, the biggest problem is people
believe they have to be in control of the dog, tell
it whats right and wrong, dogs don't understand
our values and I don't believe they are capable of
understanding them either, so to train them we use
methods they understand.

That means abstract training, doing sometimes
what appears to almost be the opposite of what
makes sense to us.

If you are purely result orientated then you will
not find Jerry's manual much use, if you love your
dogs and love to work WITH them then his manual is
your dream come true. Distraction and praise works
with any dog, when you sit back and really think
about it, it's very obvious why.

When a dog is properly distracted (and praised) of a
particular behaviour then that behaviour very
quickly becomes unfulfilling so the dog will no
longer have any interest in pursuing it, whether we
are about or not, thats the key to stopping garbage
can raids and food stealing etc etc, no force, no
bad dog, just distracting it in an appropriate
manner that it no longer wishes to pursue that
behaviour.

Better than hiding the garbage can eh?
Paul

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D

From: Paul B )
Subject: Leadership
Date: 2002-03-08 02:59:17 PST

I really believe our leadership qualities determine to
a very large degree how our dogs behave. But I don't
subscribe to the "dominance" mentality where a dog is
made to feel subordinate. With a good trainer the dog
may decide to feel that way, but only because the
quality leader sets such a good example that the dog
feels secure enough in the leaders ability to handle
and completely control any situation that it's
intervention isn't required.

This was reconfirmed when I recently re-read Jan
Fennels book "The Dog listener" and she emphasises how
important good "leadership" is, when I first read her
book I seem to remember thinking she was a "dominance"
trainer, but that's not the case she simply reiterates
over that dogs need leadership, an authority figure
they can trust and respect, not someone who tries to
dominate them.

What's the difference? One will subordinate a dog, use
intimidation etc to achieve their goal, the other goes
about their business in such away that the dog feels
compelled to comply but is not obliged to and offers
them it's genuine respect.

Paul

From: Paul B )
Subject: Help: Family dog now snarls a young kids
Date: 2000-10-19 02:56:56 PST

That's what dogs do to dogs in the wild, in the wild
that may be appropriate dog to dog behaviour but we as
people are putting our dogs into a domestic
surrounding and train them to behave appropriately.
One thing I do believe is that dogs respond to the way
they are treated, you yell at a dog everytime it's
aggressive you are telling the dog not to be
aggressive by being aggressive to it!! Hardly a valid
lesson.

Do you really think biting the dogs neck is going to
teach the dog the respect you expect from it? It will
more probably find you untrustworthy and someone
to be wary of, not a good role model.

If we want dogs to behave appropriately in a domestic
environment then we need to set a good example. The
alpha rollover is certainly not a good example.

Why do you have to be the "boss", my dogs are obedient
and very well behaved, I don't consider myself the
"boss", yet I have complete control over them. I
don't dominate them or force control, they obey
because they want to, life is good for them and they
have no reason to dispute my "requests". If I did
need to subordinate them then I'd call them to me and
get them to sit in front of me. That's a subordinate
position, but it's not intimidating to them.

Paul

--

From: Paul B )
Subject: When punishment is necessary - what
method??? Date: 2003-03-08 21:58:59 PST

"Leah" -OFF wrote in message
...
I consider sound distraction an aversive. A shaken
penny can is the same as a crisply said "Eh!" It
stops the dog from performing a behavior because
yes, it distracts. But it distracts by being
unpleasant to the dog.

Why do you assume there is an unpleasantness
associated with sound distraction? As an example I
used in my first post a neighbours door slamming shut
while you are typing to RPDB distracts you and stops
you from typing while you contemplate it, but isn't by
definition unpleasant, it's merely a distraction that
stops you (momentarily) focusing on your typing.
The same goes for sound distraction with dogs, it
takes their mind off what they are focusing on,
contemplating, then resuming what they were doing,
only to be distracted again.

And I disagree that the dog doesn't associate the
sound with his behavior. Of course he does - that's
how he becomes conditioned not to perform the
behavior.

Every time he does it, he gets a mild aversive.

The dog is merely distracted, as a person would be who
is typing and hears the "CRASH" of the neighbours door
slamming shut would be. There is no association with
the door slamming and the stopping of typing yet you
were distracted and stopped typing albeit momentarily
to ponder the noise.

I'm not sure I understand the reason for extended
praise, but I can't see that it hurts anything - as
long as the dog is continuing to display appropriate
behavior while you're praising. I think praise at
the moment he stops the behavior would be more
effective, since a dog understands the association
between a stimulus and the behavior he is displaying
at the moment, not 15 seconds later.

Dogs don't ponder over things as "we" do, they think
very differently, in visual, smell and sound, dogs
don't think human or have the mental capacity
to form sentences or possibly even reason, they act
instinctively, they understand pleasant from
unpleasant, the immediate praise grabs and holds
their attention, the distraction may only get them
pondering for a half second that's all the time we
have to grab their attention and focus their thoughts
on "us" so immediate praise is required for focusing
on us, and not focusing on the behaviour we don't
want, there is no good or bad in the dogs mind, there
simply "is" and if the dog is unable to focus on the
behaviour we don't want then it will try another
behaviour, ultimately one that is acceptable to both
of us but since it's the dogs "idea" it's happy to use
that behaviour and doesn't associate "us" with it's
new behaviour. The dog isn't aware that we have
manipulated it to perform as we desire and as such
there is no "confrontation'.

If "eh" doesn't work to distract the dog, I will
usually use another sound distraction, but make it a
pleasant one - such as calling the dog's name in a
high, sing-song voice. That usually gets a head
swiveled in my direction, so that I can refocus him
into an appropriate behavior and reward.

With the method of training I use a distraction has to
come from a different direction each time otherwise
the dog gets "wise" to what's happening, by varying
the direction the dog is less likely to anticipate the
distraction and become familiar with it.

The recall is the default and if the dog fails to respond
after 4 distractions I'll ask for a recall, this puts the
dog
sitting directly in front of me, a subordinate position
but
I use it simply regain control of the dog, not to
discourage
the unwanted behaviour as by that stage the association
between the behaviour and the recall is lost.

I then encourage the dog to resume the inappropriate
behaviour so I can distract it with better timing.

Paul

From: Paul B )
Subject: My Philosophy on Obedience
Training (kind of long)

Date: 2002-06-09 00:47:36 PST

"nancyj" wrote in message
...
This is from my current book! Making Friends:
Training Your Dog Positively by Linda Colflesh

(Note: She considers my puppy dominant assertive or
bold, which I agree with since aggressive and
aggression tend to get confused.)

THE ISSUE OF DOMINANCE

Many dog trainers believe that you must dominate
your dog in order to successfully live with him.
Obedience training classes ring with the cry, "You
must dominate your dog!" and "You must be the pack
leader, the alpha figure", a sentiment echoed in
many dog training books. It is also claimed that if
you don't dominate your dog, he will try to
dominate you. Your dog is the enemy; obedience class
is often the battleground.

I don't agree with this. You don't have to dominate
your dog in order to train him and have a good
relationship. The justification given for
this insistence on dominance is that a dog's human
family is a substitute for a dog pack, and that the
social organization of dog packs, like wolf packs,
is based on a dominance hierarchy. This dominance
hierarchy is supposedly maintained by displays of
dominance on the part of the pack leader. Therefore,
the reasoning goes, human owners should be dominant
over their dogs.

I don't subscribe to the dominance ideas either.
However I do believe a hieracy needs to be established
in the family pack. It's important for the dogs peace
of mind and security to know how the family pack is
structured, when this is achieved the dog will be less
anxious, more confident and much more obiedient. I
teach the family pack hieracy with various exercises
and reinforce it with daily interaction.

I see it that if the dog is "pulling your chain" then you
are on route to potential problems. By pulling your
chain I mean anytime the dog behaves in a manner that
contradicts what it knows ie. not obeying a request,
not recalling, attention getting behaviours etc. From
my experience when people have commented that my dog
thinks it's "dominant", it's nothing more than an
obiedience or behaviour issue, both which can be delt
with appropriate training.

Dog owners will improve their relationships with
their dogs by placing emphasis on respect, clear
communication, and mutual cooperation, rather than
on dominance. The domestication of dogs has given us
power over them by virtue of their dependence on us
for survival.

We must control our dogs for their safety and
well-being, but we must be careful not to abuse
this power. Instead, we should use this power
in a positive way to allow our dogs to live a happy
life and to give ourselves the full benefit of our
relationship with dogs.

Yes, also add to that consistency, I mean been
consistent in how you react to your dog, if your dog
knows it can always approach you and never be
reprimanded then it will never have an issue being
close to you no matter what it has done.

Paul


From: Paul B )
Subject: My golden bit my 5 year old son
Date: 2001-02-04 18:27:00 PST

How dogs behave in the wild is a far cry from how we
want them to behave in a domestic environment. I
don't know how my dogs view our setup and it doesn't
really matter, if there is a problem I deal with it
with appropriate methods to extinguish the behaviour
but not by challenging the dog or dictating to
them.

I play kong on a rope tug with both my dogs all the
time and they don't try to challenge me when I go to
pick up the kong if it's lying about, to them it's a
game, not a test of pack hierarchy.

A dog shouldn't even 'want' to bite the kids, if you
have to 'forbid' it then there are other problems with
the relationship with the dog.

I doubt a dog views the world as "fair" or "unfair",
things just are in a dogs world.

Dogs may live with a "pack" mentality in the wild but
people don't, we live within a family environment, and
that is what we want our dogs to live in too, so we
need to teach our dogs to live in such an environment,
that environment isn't full of dominance and
challenging one another, but friendly, open, welcoming
and most of all respectful. We respect each others
privacy and tolerate each others differences and
tantrums etc. That's how we want our dog to behave.
If a dog has a behaviour that's inappropriate then we
teach it so that behaviour ceases as with any other
family member, no need to challenge and dominate. It
seems to me if you put a dog in an environment where
it's been challenged and dominated it will in turn
learn to challenge and dominate where it can, if you
put it in an environment where it can learn and make
mistakes and be taught appropriate behaviour then
that's how it will behave.

If the dog is made part of the family, then as well as
it becoming part of "our family" we become part of
"it's family" or even "it's pack" if you want and it
will protect & not challenge if everything is in
order.

It's a mystery to me why you wouldn't trust a dog left
alone with children, if everything's been done
properly the dog will have no desire what so ever to
hurt the kids, rather it will want to play and enjoy
their company,.

Paul

On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 14:58:00 -0500, sighthounds & siberians wrote:

There are at least a couple of people who have one or more Siberian
Huskies and are quite familiar with them. If you post your
question(s), I'm sure someone will respond.

Thanks. People are saying you can't obedience train that dog. Is it true?
She is very hyper, has short attention span and pulls on the leash. I know
she's a pulling breed but can she be taught to heel for regular walking?
She doesn't even care that I put a choking collar on her. She still pulls
and chokes. She's proved already that she's very smart. She knows to leave
the birds alone already, but she has high prey drive and sometimes forgets
herself and runs toward their cage. She gets up on the couch for this
because they are on the table. I don't care if she's on my couch but I
want her to not pester the birds. She's a small husky weighing only about
40 pounds. I'm wondering what would be a safe weight for her to pull (will
ask the vet, but also would like to know from experienced husky owners).
Her exercise needs seem to be beyond my just walking her and I'm not
allowed to fence my yard here so I'm thinking of getting/building her a
cart for summer and skijoring in winter. If I weigh 155# is that too much
for her to pull? If so, how much weight could I put in the cart and then
walk beside her? How do I teach her commands so she doesn't drag me all
over on the skiis? Other things...I had to leave the house for a very
short time today and she went nuts. I put her in the crate, told her I'll
be right back then quietly left. She howled and cried and scratched her
bed. When I got back all I heard was panting and furious scratching. I
opened the door and looked at her and she was like another animal: eyes
wide, tongue hanging out and drooling, panting furiously. I tried not to
make a big deal of it and just took my coat and boots off and went and
opened the crate without much fuss. Once out of the crate she was fine,
but at night she sleeps in it just fine (I put it near my bed at night so
I can reassure her). She also paces back and forth for hours on end. I
live in a trailer so it's long rather than square. She runs from one end
of the trailer to the other crying and panting. Sometimes she stops by the
door and scratches at the bottom of it. Sometimes she stops and looks out
the window. Sometimes she jumps on the couch to look out all the living
room windows. Then she goes back to pacing and crying. She has toys but
unless I'm directly interacting with her and them she doesn't play with
them much. I ordered a bike thing (http://www.springerusa.com/) so
hopefully I can run her on the bike and not get pulled over by her. I'm
guessing all this pacing is because she needs more running? The pacing and
crying really doesn't bother me much, but I want to know if she's in
distress or just hyperactive or what? Anyone who can help me understand
her better I'd appreciate it.

On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 11:03:20 -0500, "Jen R."
wrote:

Thanks. People are saying you can't obedience train that dog. Is it true?
She is very hyper, has short attention span and pulls on the leash. I know
she's a pulling breed but can she be taught to heel for regular walking?
She doesn't even care that I put a choking collar on her. She still pulls
and chokes. She's proved already that she's very smart.

No, it's not true that you can't obedience train Siberian Huskies.
However, as you already know, they're very intelligent and quite
independent, which means that they generally bore pretty easily. You
need to make training fun and interesting for her. I would suggest
that you take her to an obedience class that can help teach you how to
train her. Prong collars often work better than choke collars on
Siberians, because the dog self-corrects when it pulls. Be warned,
though, that the pulling instinct is so strong in some Siberians that
they will pull in spite of a prong collar. If you haven't used prong
collars before, make sure that a qualified obedience instructor or
other knowledgeable person shows you how to properly fit the collar.
Also, a prong collar is for training and/or walking only and should
not be left on the dog in the house.

She knows to leave
the birds alone already, but she has high prey drive and sometimes forgets
herself and runs toward their cage. She gets up on the couch for this
because they are on the table. I don't care if she's on my couch but I
want her to not pester the birds.

Good luck with that. Almost all Siberian Huskies have high prey
drive. Many are not safe with cats and other small animals. How old
is your Sibe? She may never learn not to pester your birds. Praise
and/or otherwise reward her for ignoring them, tell her "no birds" in
a no-nonsense voice when she pesters them, and make absolutely certain
she's never unsupervised with them. My wonderful female Sibe, Tasha,
ate my first pair of guinea pigs when we weren't home - - she knocked
over the cage, opened it somehow, and all I found were a few spots of
blood. It's the nature of the breed. However, she left subsequent
pigs alone, and I think that is because she eventually understood that
they were mine, and were pets, much as she understands that our indoor
cats are my pets but that cats or other critters outside are fair
game. I think that sort of understanding depends on your dog having
more training and a clear view of you as the leader.

She's a small husky weighing only about
40 pounds. I'm wondering what would be a safe weight for her to pull (will
ask the vet, but also would like to know from experienced husky owners).

I don't know anything about weight-pulling and will leave this to
someone else. Melinda, are you reading this?

Her exercise needs seem to be beyond my just walking her and I'm not
allowed to fence my yard here

Egads, yes, a young Siberian's need for exercise is beyond
leash-walking. It's too late for this now, but just curious: did you
research the breed at all before getting her?

so I'm thinking of getting/building her a
cart for summer and skijoring in winter.

That would be great for her.

If I weigh 155# is that too much
for her to pull? If so, how much weight could I put in the cart and then
walk beside her? How do I teach her commands so she doesn't drag me all
over on the skiis?

First thing is to get her into an obedience class where you'll learn
how to teach her normal, everyday life commands. Then you can either
read up on how to teach her pulling-type commands, or you could look
for a Siberian Husky club in your area or perhaps some other group
that does carting, sledding, etc. There are also numerous online
discussion lists on subjects such as this that would be helpful.

Other things...I had to leave the house for a very
short time today and she went nuts. I put her in the crate, told her I'll
be right back then quietly left. She howled and cried and scratched her
bed. When I got back all I heard was panting and furious scratching. I
opened the door and looked at her and she was like another animal: eyes
wide, tongue hanging out and drooling, panting furiously. I tried not to
make a big deal of it and just took my coat and boots off and went and
opened the crate without much fuss. Once out of the crate she was fine,
but at night she sleeps in it just fine (I put it near my bed at night so
I can reassure her). She also paces back and forth for hours on end. I
live in a trailer so it's long rather than square. She runs from one end
of the trailer to the other crying and panting. Sometimes she stops by the
door and scratches at the bottom of it. Sometimes she stops and looks out
the window. Sometimes she jumps on the couch to look out all the living
room windows. Then she goes back to pacing and crying. She has toys but
unless I'm directly interacting with her and them she doesn't play with
them much. I ordered a bike thing (http://www.springerusa.com/) so
hopefully I can run her on the bike and not get pulled over by her. I'm
guessing all this pacing is because she needs more running? The pacing and
crying really doesn't bother me much, but I want to know if she's in
distress or just hyperactive or what? Anyone who can help me understand
her better I'd appreciate it.

Again, how old is she? A young husky has enormous amounts of energy,
and living in a trailer without a fenced area where she can run around
is probably pretty difficult for her. Yes, she needs more running - -
this is a breed that is bred to run, and pull while running to boot -
- and she's probably bored. The bike thing is a good idea and would
help her expend some energy. Training would be helpful too, as it
would at least give her mind something to do, but she needs physical
exercise. As to the crate, it doesn't sound as though she has crate
anxiety if she sleeps in it at night. You didn't mention whether she
does this every time you leave, how often and for how long you're
normally gone, or how she behaves when you're out of her sight, so I
don't know whether it's true separation anxiety. That's something to
talk to an obedience trainer about, and if you both think it's SA,
Patricia McConnell has a good book called "I'll Be Home Soon" which
deals with SA.

You have a breed that has many positives and negatives - - - highly
intelligent (sometimes scary smart) and with a joy of life that's
contagious; affectionate and outgoing but not clingy, usually good
with other dogs and kids, they can also be very destructive (but they
don't charge for their landscaping services), easily bored and often
stubborn, extremely talented escape artists, and energetic. Owning a
Siberian Husky in your current situation will be challenging!

Mustang Sally

On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 11:35:32 -0500, sighthounds & siberians wrote:

No, it's not true that you can't obedience train Siberian Huskies.

Whew, good to hear. I'll be signing us up for a class!

Prong collars often work better than choke collars on
Siberians, because the dog self-corrects when it pulls.

Oh my gosh thank you so much. I had them show me at the pet store how to
put it on her and she pulls so much less now. Do you think it will be ok
for her to wear it to the class? I'm sure the other dogs will distract
her :\

Also, a prong collar is for training and/or walking only and should
not be left on the dog in the house.

She has two collars anyway. I keep one on her with tags and the other for
walking - just in case it breaks or comes off or something. She does not
come to me when I call her and would be gone in the blink of an eye if she
got loose.

Good luck with that. Almost all Siberian Huskies have high prey
drive. Many are not safe with cats and other small animals.

She is doing *so* good with it. She'll watch them but she has not run at
their cage at all today (sorry I forgot to say she's new here I just got
her a few days ago).

How old is your Sibe?

I don't know. At the dog pound they guessed her age to be around 1 year.

ate my first pair of guinea pigs when we weren't home - - she knocked
over the cage, opened it somehow, and all I found were a few spots of
blood.

That's awful!!

game. I think that sort of understanding depends on your dog having
more training and a clear view of you as the leader.

Yeah maybe that will come in time. She doesn't even know me yet or for
that matter have a name - that I know of anyway. She was a stray dog
that no one claimed. I wouldn't be surprised if she got away from someone
and ran many miles to end up here. Well I don't feel too bad anyway
because she's hand shy like she's been abused so it's probably better
she's got a new home.

Egads, yes, a young Siberian's need for exercise is beyond
leash-walking. It's too late for this now, but just curious: did you
research the breed at all before getting her?

A little. I was familiar with the breed being a high energy working dog.
It wouldn't have been my first choice breed, but I thought about it a
couple days, read a book from the library about the breed, then went
back to the shelter to adopt her.

Again, how old is she? A young husky has enormous amounts of energy,
and living in a trailer without a fenced area where she can run around
is probably pretty difficult for her.

Boy do I feel like a complete idiot!! I learned the hard way today that
pacing, crying and scratching the door means "I have to go out and go
potty right now". It's been many years since I had a dog so young and she
started this not more than a couple hours after she'd been out and went
both poo and pee. Well, she went again on my carpet. Serves me right, lol,
I didn't understand her! I took her out then took her running with the
bike just holding the leash. Good god she can run fast! Now she's
lying on the couch sleeping.

You didn't mention whether she does this every time you leave, how
often and for how long you're normally gone, or how she behaves when
you're out of her sight, so I don't know whether it's true separation
anxiety.

Oops sorry. She's new here like I said so this is all new to her. It was
the first time she'd been alone in the house and she was only alone about
15 minutes. Either I or my spouse are here pretty much all the time so she
isn't going to need to be alone much at all. However, she does follow me
around the house like she's glued to me. If I leave the room she follows.
If I go in the bathroom and close the door before she gets there she sits
outside the door and cries until I come out. Maybe it's just because this
place is new?

Owning a Siberian Husky in your current situation will be challenging!

Well thank you for all your info. I'm sure we can make it work somehow. I
really like this dog a lot. She's so neat. Great personality and
temperment. The funny thing is I thought she was kinda ugly when I first
saw her - especially with the different colored eyes. But now that I know
her more I think she's beautiful

In article ,
sighthounds & siberians wrote:
No, it's not true that you can't obedience train Siberian Huskies.
However, as you already know, they're very intelligent and quite
independent, which means that they generally bore pretty easily. You
need to make training fun and interesting for her.

That can't be repeated often enough. Classes are great,
too. If nothing else, the dogs just like going to class and
having an outing that revolves around them.

Here's a thing about prong collars, and it may be my own
somewhat circumscribed experience talking, but I'm a big fan
of clicker training for easily bored dogs that shut down
when offended, and I've never been in a clicker training
class that advocated the use of prongs. That's unfortunate
especially because they do tend to favor head halters, which
I think are a bad idea for a dog that's apt to bolt.

Prong collars often work better than choke collars on
Siberians, because the dog self-corrects when it pulls. Be warned,
though, that the pulling instinct is so strong in some Siberians that
they will pull in spite of a prong collar.

One thing that cracks me up with the dogs is that when you
try the "make like a tree" thing that's popular with some
trainers, a lot of Siberians will just lean against the
collar and not back off. You have to get out of it without
the dog thinking it's won, which for us means turning around
and heading in the other direction (and keep changing
direction before the dog has the chance to hit the end of
the leash again). (I'm having a dickens of a time with
Cinder, but now that sledding season is effectively over we
can get back to work on leash manners.)

I don't know anything about weight-pulling and will leave this to
someone else. Melinda, are you reading this?

Don't have a clue about weight pulling. If there's a local
breed club they'll be a great resource.

First thing is to get her into an obedience class where you'll learn
how to teach her normal, everyday life commands. Then you can either
read up on how to teach her pulling-type commands, or you could look
for a Siberian Husky club in your area or perhaps some other group
that does carting, sledding, etc. There are also numerous online
discussion lists on subjects such as this that would be helpful.

Emmett's got great steering and frankly he learned it
through osmosis. From the time he was a puppy I gave him
gee/haw commands every time we went out. With skijoring you
have to be a competent skier, sometimes because the dog is
going to slingshot you all over the trail at high speeds (if
the dog's strong or you're light) or because you're going to
have to help the dog out (if the dog isn't strong or you're
heavy).

The bike thing is a good idea and would
help her expend some energy.

I think it's a *great* idea, with the caveat that you have
to be careful about overheating a dog with a heavy coat.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

2/3 of the Social Security Trustees are political appointees

On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 15:21:18 -0500, "Jen R."
wrote:

Oh my gosh thank you so much. I had them show me at the pet store how to
put it on her and she pulls so much less now. Do you think it will be ok
for her to wear it to the class? I'm sure the other dogs will distract
her :\

I think that will depend on the trainer. There are clicker/'pure
positive' trainers that consider prong collars punishment devices and
will not want you to use one. If possible, look for a balanced
trainer who attempts to fit his/her methods to the dog's individual
temperament and behavior. I have used prong collars on my dogs in
class, at least until they started to get the hang of heeling.
Ideally, a prong collar is a management tool, to be used until the
problem behavior is changed. You want to teach her not to pull, and
to heel on command, before doing biking with her, or she may drag you
all over town.

She has two collars anyway. I keep one on her with tags and the other for
walking - just in case it breaks or comes off or something. She does not
come to me when I call her and would be gone in the blink of an eye if she
got loose.

Yep, that's a Siberian. Make sure the collar with tags is also on her
when you're walking her, in case she does get loose. Tags are
invaluable. My female husky is an accomplished escape artist, and I
can't tell you how many times someone has caught her and called us.
Fortunately, we live in a smallish town where people will hold on to a
lost dog and don't seem to mind too much.

She is doing *so* good with it. She'll watch them but she has not run at
their cage at all today (sorry I forgot to say she's new here I just got
her a few days ago).

That's excellent. Maybe after the novelty of seeing them wears off,
you won't have to worry about her.

How old is your Sibe?

I don't know. At the dog pound they guessed her age to be around 1 year.

Good for you for adopting a shelter dog. Not that there's anything
wrong with buying a pup from a responsible breeder; there certainly
isn't. Anyway, you have some people's worst nightmare - - an
adolescent Siberian. Which is probably why she was in the pound.

ate my first pair of guinea pigs when we weren't home - - she knocked
over the cage, opened it somehow, and all I found were a few spots of
blood.

That's awful!!

It was disturbing, but I got over it and we moved on from there. It
really was my fault, for not making it impossible for Tasha to get
into the room where the guinea pigs were until she understood that
they were off limits.

Yeah maybe that will come in time. She doesn't even know me yet or for
that matter have a name - that I know of anyway. She was a stray dog
that no one claimed. I wouldn't be surprised if she got away from someone
and ran many miles to end up here. Well I don't feel too bad anyway
because she's hand shy like she's been abused so it's probably better
she's got a new home.

DH and I used to do Siberian rescue, and we saw quite a few dogs that
were hand/head shy. Sibes can be frustrating, but nothing justifies
hitting them to the point that they cower.

A little. I was familiar with the breed being a high energy working dog.
It wouldn't have been my first choice breed, but I thought about it a
couple days, read a book from the library about the breed, then went
back to the shelter to adopt her.

Some research is better than no research. At least you knew that
much; I suspect that most people who buy a cute fuzzy Siberian puppy
don't have any idea what they're getting, which is why so many end up
in shelters around a year old.

Boy do I feel like a complete idiot!! I learned the hard way today that
pacing, crying and scratching the door means "I have to go out and go
potty right now". It's been many years since I had a dog so young and she
started this not more than a couple hours after she'd been out and went
both poo and pee. Well, she went again on my carpet. Serves me right, lol,
I didn't understand her! I took her out then took her running with the
bike just holding the leash. Good god she can run fast! Now she's
lying on the couch sleeping.

Heh. Don't feel like an idiot, you're training other. Sibes are
smart smart smart and IME easy to housebreak. The best thing, of
course, is for her to never have an accident, but failing that, to
catch her in the act, so that you can calmly tell her "no" and take
her outside to where you want her to potty. IME it takes a Sibe about
once to catch on. When you take her out to potty, tell her "go potty"
or whatever cue you'd like to use, praise her and give her a treat
when she goes. Oh yeah, they can run fast.

Oops sorry. She's new here like I said so this is all new to her. It was
the first time she'd been alone in the house and she was only alone about
15 minutes. Either I or my spouse are here pretty much all the time so she
isn't going to need to be alone much at all. However, she does follow me
around the house like she's glued to me. If I leave the room she follows.
If I go in the bathroom and close the door before she gets there she sits
outside the door and cries until I come out. Maybe it's just because this
place is new?

Could very well be general anxiety about being in a new place. If
this behavior persists after a week or two, pick up McConnell's book.
In the meantime, don't make a big deal of telling her goodbye when you
leave, or hello when you come home. Try to vary your routine when
leaving so that she doesn't have cues to pick up on: "human puts
clothes on, turns lights off, picks up keys and OH NO SHE'S LEAVING".
Buy a Kong toy, stuff it with something (kibble mixed with peanut
butter), freeze it, and give it to her in her crate when you leave.
Even if she doesn't have SA, that will keep her occupied.

Well thank you for all your info. I'm sure we can make it work somehow. I
really like this dog a lot. She's so neat. Great personality and
temperment. The funny thing is I thought she was kinda ugly when I first
saw her - especially with the different colored eyes. But now that I know
her more I think she's beautiful

You have some plans that, if you follow through, will go a long way to
making it work. Give her an oppportunity for ample exercise, keep her
mind busy, and train. Now to the important stuff. You mentioned
different colored eyes, and I'm a fool for bi-eyed Siberians. I must
know what color she is. What are you calling her?

Mustang Sally

On 21 Mar 2005 17:56:43 -0500, (Melinda Shore) wrote:

Here's a thing about prong collars, and it may be my own
somewhat circumscribed experience talking, but I'm a big fan
of clicker training for easily bored dogs that shut down
when offended, and I've never been in a clicker training
class that advocated the use of prongs. That's unfortunate
especially because they do tend to favor head halters, which
I think are a bad idea for a dog that's apt to bolt.

I agree, and I doubt you'd find a clicker trainer who thought prongs
were OK. The OP should just look for a trainer/class she's
comfortable with, and if it's a clicker class she can just use the
prong collar outside of class as necessary.

One thing that cracks me up with the dogs is that when you
try the "make like a tree" thing that's popular with some
trainers, a lot of Siberians will just lean against the
collar and not back off. You have to get out of it without
the dog thinking it's won, which for us means turning around
and heading in the other direction (and keep changing
direction before the dog has the chance to hit the end of
the leash again). (I'm having a dickens of a time with
Cinder, but now that sledding season is effectively over we
can get back to work on leash manners.)

Yep, making like a tree isn't going to work with a dog that thinks it
can pull a tree out of the ground. I think many people, trainers
included, don't grasp just how hard Siberians can pull, and how
strongly wired they are to pull.

Mustang Sally