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dog weight chart vs breed



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 23rd 05, 08:42 PM
culprit
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Default dog weight chart vs breed

we went to the vet for the annual checkup last week, and the vet said Manu
is fat and needs to lose weight. she said he should look more like Lola.
here's a side by side for comparison (Manu is the brindle):
http://groups.msn.com/culprit/dogpla...o&PhotoID=1618

note that his left rear leg is forward, blocking the total view of his tuck.

anyway, Lola is pure pit bull. likely from fighting lines. she's thin,
rangy, leggy, and quick as heck. yes, you can see her ribs. Manu, OTOH, is
a pit mix, probably with Lab. he's thick. he has a slight fat layer under
his skin, but no more than any Lab i've seen. underneath that is pure
muscle. his ribs are easily palpable, and he is incredibly athletic. while
he has gained 8 pounds in the last year, he's also more muscular and has
more endurance.

now here's the question. Manu is slightly overweight according to the
weight chart on the vet's wall. shouldn't the vet take breed and body
structure into account, rather than just going by the chart? or is he
actually fat?
i tried reducing his food, but he was so hungry, he stole from Lola's bowl,
which he doesn't do otherwise. when i brought his food back up to normal
(already the very lowest amount on the package instructions for his size),
he stopped stealing from Lola.

opinions?

-kelly



  #2  
Old March 23rd 05, 08:43 PM
culprit
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Default

x-posting to rpd.health...

"culprit" wrote in message
...
we went to the vet for the annual checkup last week, and the vet said Manu
is fat and needs to lose weight. she said he should look more like Lola.
here's a side by side for comparison (Manu is the brindle):
http://groups.msn.com/culprit/dogpla...o&PhotoID=1618

note that his left rear leg is forward, blocking the total view of his
tuck.

anyway, Lola is pure pit bull. likely from fighting lines. she's thin,
rangy, leggy, and quick as heck. yes, you can see her ribs. Manu, OTOH,
is a pit mix, probably with Lab. he's thick. he has a slight fat layer
under his skin, but no more than any Lab i've seen. underneath that is
pure muscle. his ribs are easily palpable, and he is incredibly athletic.
while he has gained 8 pounds in the last year, he's also more muscular and
has more endurance.

now here's the question. Manu is slightly overweight according to the
weight chart on the vet's wall. shouldn't the vet take breed and body
structure into account, rather than just going by the chart? or is he
actually fat?
i tried reducing his food, but he was so hungry, he stole from Lola's
bowl, which he doesn't do otherwise. when i brought his food back up to
normal (already the very lowest amount on the package instructions for his
size), he stopped stealing from Lola.

opinions?

-kelly





  #3  
Old March 23rd 05, 09:02 PM
Janet B
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On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 11:42:34 -0800, "culprit"
wrote:


anyway, Lola is pure pit bull. likely from fighting lines. she's thin,
rangy, leggy, and quick as heck. yes, you can see her ribs. Manu, OTOH, is
a pit mix, probably with Lab. he's thick. he has a slight fat layer under
his skin, but no more than any Lab i've seen. underneath that is pure
muscle. his ribs are easily palpable, and he is incredibly athletic. while
he has gained 8 pounds in the last year, he's also more muscular and has
more endurance.


Why do you think he has lab in him? He looks heavier than ideal, but
pictures are too hard to say (unless a top view maybe). hands on is
the best gauge, more than weight (many sports figures are technically
"obese", but they are clearly not fat - muscle weighs a lot and too
many factors).

How tall is he at the shoulder and how much does he weigh?


--
Janet B
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfr...bedience/album
  #4  
Old March 23rd 05, 09:09 PM
Mary Healey
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Default

"culprit" wrote:
now here's the question. Manu is slightly overweight according to the
weight chart on the vet's wall. shouldn't the vet take breed and body
structure into account, rather than just going by the chart? or is
he actually fat?


He could probably lose a few. Don't necessarily blame the Lab in him --
Duke's (mostly) Lab and still has a tuckup and waist. Loose skin, sure, but
a definite tuck. (I've really got to get some pics of the Big Black Dog
soon!)

Manu might never get that nice, tight tummy that Lola has, but he could
probably get a little more buff and be the better for it.

i tried reducing his food, but he was so hungry, he stole from Lola's
bowl, which he doesn't do otherwise. when i brought his food back up
to normal (already the very lowest amount on the package instructions
for his size), he stopped stealing from Lola.


Replace half his food with canned pumpkin (NOT pie filling!) or green
beans. Or raw carrots.

--
Mary H. and the Ames National Zoo:
Raise A Fund, ANZ Babylon Ranger, ANZ MarmaDUKE, and Rotund Rhia
  #5  
Old March 23rd 05, 09:11 PM
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On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 11:42:34 -0800 culprit whittled these words:
we went to the vet for the annual checkup last week, and the vet said Manu
is fat and needs to lose weight.


Since most vets are reluctant to tell that to owners this is a good sign.

Manu, OTOH, is
a pit mix, probably with Lab. he's thick. he has a slight fat layer under
his skin, but no more than any Lab i've seen.


90% of labs I see are obese, not just a little overweight.

underneath that is pure
muscle. his ribs are easily palpable,


Its a bit more than that - its easier to have someone show you by
comparison.

and he is incredibly athletic. while
he has gained 8 pounds in the last year, he's also more muscular and has
more endurance.


Good!

now here's the question. Manu is slightly overweight according to the
weight chart on the vet's wall. shouldn't the vet take breed and body
structure into account, rather than just going by the chart? or is he
actually fat?


Of course body structure comes into it. a 22 inch fit Border collie is
going to weigh about 30 pounds less than a 22 inch fit Rottweiler.

i tried reducing his food, but he was so hungry, he stole from Lola's bowl,
which he doesn't do otherwise. when i brought his food back up to normal
(already the very lowest amount on the package instructions for his size),
he stopped stealing from Lola.


opinions?


First determine what his current calorie intake is. If you can't get
calorie figures from the bag check the manufacturer web site. Then
consider adjusting the food to increase fat and protein while reducing
total calories by about 10% To make the food more satisfing consider
adding pumpkin or green beans don't forget to count those calories. Also
feeding in a kong or buster cube will often help.



--
Diane Blackman
http://dog-play.com/
http://dogplay.com/Shop/
  #6  
Old March 23rd 05, 09:19 PM
culprit
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"Janet B" wrote in message
...

Why do you think he has lab in him? ]


there are several factors... he has a thick, double coat that sheds rain
well, a pure bred pit's single coat isn't nearly as thick and doesn't shed
water as well. his ears are lower set, larger and not as soft or flexible
as pit bull ears. his tail is much too thick. his nose looks more Lab than
pit bull. he has a very Lab-like brisket, and he has much thicker skin than
a pit.

here's a good ear shot:
http://groups.msn.com/culprit/manu.m...o&PhotoID=1290
and here's a head profile:
http://groups.msn.com/culprit/manu.m...o&PhotoID=1422

honestly, we don't know what he's mixed with, but pit/Lab mixes are
incredibly common here, so it seemed like the best fit.

He looks heavier than ideal, but
pictures are too hard to say (unless a top view maybe). hands on is
the best gauge, more than weight (many sports figures are technically
"obese", but they are clearly not fat - muscle weighs a lot and too
many factors).

How tall is he at the shoulder and how much does he weigh?


he's about 22" and 80 pounds.

-kelly


  #7  
Old March 23rd 05, 09:23 PM
culprit
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"Mary Healey" wrote in message
. 4...


He could probably lose a few. Don't necessarily blame the Lab in him --
Duke's (mostly) Lab and still has a tuckup and waist. Loose skin, sure,
but
a definite tuck. (I've really got to get some pics of the Big Black Dog
soon!)


a lot of of the Labs i see around here are the "show" type, which seem a bit
heavier and have less tuck than the field variety, AFAIK. i think that's
where i get my mental picture of a Lab.

Replace half his food with canned pumpkin (NOT pie filling!) or green
beans. Or raw carrots.


we tried the green beans, and he *hated* them. it was the first time i've
ever seen him hesitate around food. he ate his kibble around them. :-) he
does love carrots though, so i'll try those next.

thanks!

-kelly


  #8  
Old March 23rd 05, 09:33 PM
Rocky
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Default

culprit said in rec.pets.dogs.breeds:

Replace half his food with canned pumpkin (NOT pie
filling!) or green beans. Or raw carrots.


we tried the green beans, and he *hated* them.


How did you serve them? Dogs seem to like the french cut
(shoestring) type, served frozen straight out of the bag. I
just throw them on top of the regular food.

it was the
first time i've ever seen him hesitate around food. he ate
his kibble around them. :-) he does love carrots though,
so i'll try those next.


And don't forget the pumpkin - it seems to stink just right for
most dogs to find it irresistible.

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
  #9  
Old March 23rd 05, 09:58 PM
Robin Nuttall
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Default



culprit wrote:


anyway, Lola is pure pit bull. likely from fighting lines. she's thin,
rangy, leggy, and quick as heck. yes, you can see her ribs.


Sorry, but in the picture Lola doesn't look thin or leggy. She looks
fit. I do not see ribs in the photo. To me Lola looks in perfect
condition, not thin.



Manu, OTOH, is
a pit mix, probably with Lab. he's thick. he has a slight fat layer under
his skin, but no more than any Lab i've seen. underneath that is pure
muscle. his ribs are easily palpable, and he is incredibly athletic. while
he has gained 8 pounds in the last year, he's also more muscular and has
more endurance.


Manu looks heavy to me. Even without his leg forward his tuckup would be
minimal. He looks to me like he's got a bit of fat pad over his hips and
around the front of his shoulders/brisket. Generally, muscle doesn't
build up around the tops of shoulder, top of the back, tuckup, waist, or
brisket. Muscle builds in the side of the shoulder and hindquarters. I
think he's at least that 8 pounds too heavy.


now here's the question. Manu is slightly overweight according to the
weight chart on the vet's wall.


Frankly I think the weight charts err on the side of the pet owner
that's used to fat dogs. In other words, what the vet chart calls
"perfect" I call borderline overweight. S


shouldn't the vet take breed and body
structure into account, rather than just going by the chart? or is he
actually fat?


Sorry....

i tried reducing his food, but he was so hungry, he stole from Lola's bowl,
which he doesn't do otherwise. when i brought his food back up to normal
(already the very lowest amount on the package instructions for his size),
he stopped stealing from Lola.


First, stop free feeding them or feeding them where they can steal each
others food. Bad idea. Second, ignore the instructions on the back of
the dog food bag. They ALWAYS recommend feeding way too much food for
the size of dog. And don't think "Oh, I have to feed him more because
he's hungry." Feed him what it takes to keep him fit. If you want, buy
some canned pumpkin and feed it along with the food.

I think you want Manu to look more like Lola.

  #10  
Old March 23rd 05, 10:09 PM
culprit
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Sorry, but in the picture Lola doesn't look thin or leggy. She looks fit.
I do not see ribs in the photo. To me Lola looks in perfect condition, not
thin.


i don't mean she's too thin, she's in perfect condition for her build.
which is much leaner than a show AmStaff or a UKC APBT. or, potentially, a
pit mix.


Manu looks heavy to me. Even without his leg forward his tuckup would be
minimal. He looks to me like he's got a bit of fat pad over his hips and
around the front of his shoulders/brisket. Generally, muscle doesn't
build up around the tops of shoulder, top of the back, tuckup, waist, or
brisket. Muscle builds in the side of the shoulder and hindquarters. I
think he's at least that 8 pounds too heavy.


ok, that makes sense.


First, stop free feeding them or feeding them where they can steal each
others food. Bad idea.


i don't free feed, and since they're supervised when eating, food theivery
has never been an issue before. i'll move their feeding bowls to see if it
helps.


I think you want Manu to look more like Lola.

that's what the vet thinks, but i don't think it's necessarily possible. i
don't think i could get a Rottie to look like Lola. and i don't think i
could get Lola to look like a Whippet. hence the different body type by
breed question.

thanks for the input, and i'll continue with the reduced feeding.

-kelly


 




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