We started the Petsmart obedience classes that my kids talked their
grandpa into buying for them and Anna's little dog. The instructor
has a lot of knowledge about luring. I don't know if it comes from
the Petsmart program or from other experience. She hasn't said what
all her experience is. I probably should ask her, out of curiosity if
for no other reason. I have noticed that her skills are not very
broad-based. I have noticed this because we are there with the one
dog who doesn't lure well and does badly with food rewards. She is
definitely food motivated, but perhaps too much so. Also hyper. She
couldn't for the life of her get Livvie to "wait" or loose leash walk.
I didn't have the heart to tell her she does both at our house. Well,
not so good with the wait, since anything that requires stillness is
T-O-R-T-U-R-E!!! and to be wiggled out of, literally, if at all
possible. But she definitely loose leash walks for me just fine.
With the trainer and her little treat, she hops skips and jumps around
like she is trying to teach her to dance instead of walk on a loose
leash.

--
Paula
"Anyway, other people are weird, but sometimes they have candy, so it's best to try to get along with them." Joe Bay

Most Petsmart trainers, unfortunetly, have little to no experience
teaching classes. My best friend teaches at Petsmart, but she is one
in a million, is a certified behaviorist and is fluent in choke chain
and PR based training, and has been teaching for almost 14 years... but
the rest of the Petsmarts in that area have trainers that know next to
nothing about dog training, some don't even have dogs! The ones that
do can't even bring their own dogs into the store, due to behavioral
problems. Says alot right there.

At any rate, if you decide to stop taking the classes, please get a
refund and explain why. If everyone who ever dropped out of a Petsmart
class did that, Petsmart might get a clue that their hiring procedures
SUCK. As it is now, all they care about is the money, and the fact
that most people don't refund because they are too embarassed...

If you want a little background on my dog, read the "Why is my dog a dork?"
post. That being said, I enrolled him in a PetSmart training class. By the
third week, he was the best behaved dog there. Why? Because there are things
that *I* know about my dog that the trainer doesn't. I know that he doesn't
like treats. And so I use a clicker instead. And let me tell you, the second
the clicker came out to go *with* the one kind of treat that I've found he
likes (which is just his regular dog food out of a different bag), he
learned "sit", "down", "shake", "wait" and everything else in a heart beat.
The classes are NOT to teach the instructor how to get your dog to walk on a
loose leash, or sit, or wait. It is to teach YOU how to get your dog to do
those things. If your dog doesn't respond to food, find something else; a
lot of dogs are motivated by 2 seconds of play, or a clicker, or just by
praise and touch-rewards. You know your dog, so work with what you know. I
couldn't have taught my dog anything if I'd followed their "food-reward"
system, but the $1.49 clicker sure got him educated.
That being said: my dog is a genuis when it comes to shake-a-paw and
rollover. Can't seem to figure out the housetraining even though I've
applied EVERYTHING I know about what motivates him to it. And IMO, it'd be
way better if he could NOT pee or poo in house, even if he can't rollover.

My 2 cents.

Melissa

"Paula" wrote in message
...
We started the Petsmart obedience classes that my kids talked their
grandpa into buying for them and Anna's little dog. The instructor
has a lot of knowledge about luring. I don't know if it comes from
the Petsmart program or from other experience. She hasn't said what
all her experience is. I probably should ask her, out of curiosity if
for no other reason. I have noticed that her skills are not very
broad-based. I have noticed this because we are there with the one
dog who doesn't lure well and does badly with food rewards. She is
definitely food motivated, but perhaps too much so. Also hyper. She
couldn't for the life of her get Livvie to "wait" or loose leash walk.
I didn't have the heart to tell her she does both at our house. Well,
not so good with the wait, since anything that requires stillness is
T-O-R-T-U-R-E!!! and to be wiggled out of, literally, if at all
possible. But she definitely loose leash walks for me just fine.
With the trainer and her little treat, she hops skips and jumps around
like she is trying to teach her to dance instead of walk on a loose
leash.

--
Paula
"Anyway, other people are weird, but sometimes they have candy, so it's
best to try to get along with them." Joe Bay

On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 01:33:39 GMT, "Melissa" wrote:

If you want a little background on my dog, read the "Why is my dog a dork?"
post.

I read it already.

That being said, I enrolled him in a PetSmart training class. By the
third week, he was the best behaved dog there. Why? Because there are things
that *I* know about my dog that the trainer doesn't. I know that he doesn't
like treats. And so I use a clicker instead. And let me tell you, the second
the clicker came out to go *with* the one kind of treat that I've found he
likes (which is just his regular dog food out of a different bag), he
learned "sit", "down", "shake", "wait" and everything else in a heart beat.
The classes are NOT to teach the instructor how to get your dog to walk on a
loose leash, or sit, or wait. It is to teach YOU how to get your dog to do
those things. If your dog doesn't respond to food, find something else; a
lot of dogs are motivated by 2 seconds of play, or a clicker, or just by
praise and touch-rewards. You know your dog, so work with what you know. I
couldn't have taught my dog anything if I'd followed their "food-reward"
system, but the $1.49 clicker sure got him educated.
That being said: my dog is a genuis when it comes to shake-a-paw and
rollover. Can't seem to figure out the housetraining even though I've
applied EVERYTHING I know about what motivates him to it. And IMO, it'd be
way better if he could NOT pee or poo in house, even if he can't rollover.

For someone who was complaining in your other thread about know-it-all
attitudes, you might want to reread this and check your tone. I can't
tell if you want to come across that way or not. In any event, my
point was that I was not impressed with the Petsmart method/trainer
because it does not take into account that not all dogs are food
motivated. As I stated, I can get my daughter's dog to walk on a
loose leash just fine and have done so at home. It isn't with food
luring, however. The fact that a professional trainer doesn't have
more tricks in her bag or tools in her box or whatever you want to
call it is disconcerting, exactly because I agree that the point of
the classes is to teach the owners how to get their dogs to do the
things being trained. The owners in that class are there because they
don't know how to get their dogs to do things and believe that the
instructor will be able to teach them how. If their dog does not fit
within the food luring and food rewarding mold, those owners will be
SOL and those dogs may suffer.

By the way, I know a lot about brain damage and your dog's problem
with housetraining does not appear to be brain damage. The pattern of
what it can and cannot do and when it did and did not poop and/or pee
outside or near the door does not indicate brain damage. I am not a
professional trainer with enough expertise to tell you what else to
try, but I don't think you need consider it a lost cause because of
the head injury your dog sustained. I can't tell whether that will be
good or bad news to you, but I hope it is good news.


My 2 cents.

--
Paula
"Anyway, other people are weird, but sometimes they have candy, so it's best to try to get along with them." Joe Bay

Does anyone out there know how to find a really good, qualified
trainer? I was actually thinking of going to Petsmart with Sooner but
now I'm worried.
Kristin

wrote in news:1112389943.970987.287430
@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:

Does anyone out there know how to find a really good, qualified
trainer? I was actually thinking of going to Petsmart with Sooner but
now I'm worried.
Kristin



What I did was to ask around. I asked my coworkers and neighbors and people
at the dog park (the ones with well-trained dogs). Lots and lots of people
had great things to say about the trainer we found. She was also affiliated
with a local shelter.

--
Catherine
& Zoe & Queenie

Does anyone out there know how to find a really good, qualified
instructor? I was actually thinking of going to Petsmart with Sooner
but now I'm worried.
Kristin

Does anyone out there know how to find a really good, qualified
trainer? I was actually thinking of going to Petsmart with Sooner but
now I'm worried.
Kristin

Considering that PetSmart training is probably a lot less expensive than a
"really good, qualifed" trainer, why not start there?? It'll give you a
basic idea, and obviously, most people go into them at least a little bit
informed. Most dogs that are there already know some basic things, like how
to sit. The trainers where I went to, and this may be different because it's
Canada, were teaching based on food-motivation. Which worked for all the
dogs in the class except mine, one other who refused ALL treats (though the
kid training him did a good job trying things like cat food but never
thought to buy a clicker even though I suggested it), and one who ate so
MANY treats that he threw up--and was switched to clicker-training shortly
thereafter. But when I asked them if I could use a clicker, they were very
supportive, offered me suggestions/advice/help on when to click, when NOT to
click, how to use it in COMBINATION with food rewards, and had lots of
advice for dealing with separation anxiety and the house-training issues I
have. Obviously, if you've read any of the posts following the one I started
regarding my dog's house-training status, a lot of it didn't work, but at
least they were informed.

Personally, I think the key to getting benefit out of a training class,
whether by a "really good, certified" trainer or not, is to understand the
basic principles of training. Lots of people who are considered "really,
good" trainers will use methods that you are uncomfortable with, and you
don't always know what those methods are going to be until you've paid for
the training. I know a young lady who had a Yorkie, and spent a FORTUNE on
dog-training with a certified behaviourist/trainer, and after the third
class, had to drop out (and got only a partial refund) because they were
using a combination of head-collars and choke chains. You tell me how a
head-collar is supposed to work on a dog that is 6" off the ground?? The
whole point of them is that you are able to direct the dog's head away from
whatever is distracting it, and reinforce your dominance/control by exerting
pressure on their muzzles. Put one on a dog that is so far below your hand
that you can't make it's nose drop and it's useless. You have to know how a
form of training is supposed to work before you can know if it'll work for
your dog. And most people's dog problems are easily sorted out by trainers
such as the ones employed by PetSmart. Some have difficult dogs that need
specialized training, and THAT is where the certified trainers are really
important.

That being said, I'd run a quick search for dog-trainer programs in your
area, the kind that teach people how to be trainers, and see how many of
them there are, and what kind of programs they offer. Then run a search on
dog-training classes offered in your area, and find out how many of the
trainers have been to programs from places that you searched out earlier.
Personally, you don't have to have a certified trainer to get a good
trainer. Where I live, there are so few courses to learn how to BE a
dog-trainer that probably 99% of the people doing it haven't been certified,
let alone taken any classes.

Anyhow... good luck,
Melissa

"ceb" wrote in message
...
wrote in news:1112389943.970987.287430
@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:

Does anyone out there know how to find a really good, qualified
trainer? I was actually thinking of going to Petsmart with Sooner but
now I'm worried.
Kristin



What I did was to ask around. I asked my coworkers and neighbors and
people
at the dog park (the ones with well-trained dogs). Lots and lots of people
had great things to say about the trainer we found. She was also
affiliated
with a local shelter.

--
Catherine
& Zoe & Queenie

Just because a person works at PetSmart does NOT mean they are a
"professional trainer". People are smart, they know when things aren't
working for their animals, and if it's NOT working, they're either going to
experiment on their own to find ways to get the desired response from their
dog (which might be finding a different reward), or they're going to ask for
help. And if they're intelligent enough to enroll a dog in a training class,
chances are they're not going to be afraid to ask the trainer to help them.
And if they don't get an answer from the trainer that helps them, maybe
they'll pick up a book or two.

In the PetSmart class I was in, there were 2 other dogs who weren't working
well with food rewards; one puked from too many treats, the other just
didn't care about ANY kind of treat/food/snack no matter what was offered.
The boy in charge of the latter even tried canned cat food, which made all
the *other* dogs sit when he told her to, but not his own dog. And yet at
the end of the course, the other 2 dogs, and my own, and the
psycho/wiggly/hyper Jack Russel puppy that was in the class (who responded
to food but would only give it her attention for 1/8 of a second), were all
sitting, laying, walking nicely on leash, leaving treats alone when told to,
and generally being pretty good dogs. Of course I'm sure some are better or
worse at home (my own included) but everyone got the job done. We weren't
there to teach our dogs to do back-flips or even to be able to do the
flip-treat-off-nose trick, we were just there for BASIC obedience.

I don't recall anyone ever needing to take a special course to teach their
children to read. Most parents do it just fine, and most kids at least know
how to recognize/repeat letters and numbers before they go off to school;
the really exceptional parents (whether because of time factor, or other
reasons) are able to actually teach some basic reading skills to their kids
before they go to school so that they can read basic sentences. Why would we
expect a dog-trainer should have education to teach our dogs to sit, when we
don't expect parents to have education to teach their kids to read? If they
can read themselves, they can teach a child to read. If a dog-trainer has
*ever* taught a dog to sit, they can probably show me how they did it and I
can figure out a way to make my dog do it to.

Melissa


"Paula" wrote in message
...
I read it already.

For someone who was complaining in your other thread about know-it-all
attitudes, you might want to reread this and check your tone. I can't
tell if you want to come across that way or not. In any event, my
point was that I was not impressed with the Petsmart method/trainer
because it does not take into account that not all dogs are food
motivated. As I stated, I can get my daughter's dog to walk on a
loose leash just fine and have done so at home. It isn't with food
luring, however. The fact that a professional trainer doesn't have
more tricks in her bag or tools in her box or whatever you want to
call it is disconcerting, exactly because I agree that the point of
the classes is to teach the owners how to get their dogs to do the
things being trained. The owners in that class are there because they
don't know how to get their dogs to do things and believe that the
instructor will be able to teach them how. If their dog does not fit
within the food luring and food rewarding mold, those owners will be
SOL and those dogs may suffer.

By the way, I know a lot about brain damage and your dog's problem
with housetraining does not appear to be brain damage. The pattern of
what it can and cannot do and when it did and did not poop and/or pee
outside or near the door does not indicate brain damage. I am not a
professional trainer with enough expertise to tell you what else to
try, but I don't think you need consider it a lost cause because of
the head injury your dog sustained. I can't tell whether that will be
good or bad news to you, but I hope it is good news.


My 2 cents.

--
Paula
"Anyway, other people are weird, but sometimes they have candy, so it's
best to try to get along with them." Joe Bay