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Aggressive rough collie, hormones, ovarian cysts

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Old April 10th 05, 01:02 AM
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Default Aggressive rough collie, hormones, ovarian cysts

HOWEDY elsette,

Has anyone else out there had problems with possible ovarian
cycts in their dog causing hormonal problems that affect their
dog's aggression?

INDEEDY. The Amazing Puppy Wizard was just DISCUSSIN THAT with
doctor hiliary isralei, fraud liar and veterinary medical

EITHER THAT, or she's the doGgamenedest FREAKIN IDIOTIC graduate of
veterinary school. PERHAPS THEY should be held accHOWENTABLE for such
MISERABLE work. EITHER THAT or they should REFUND her tuition or face
PROSECUTION for takin advantage of the intellectually INCOMPETENT.

She (dr hilary) was JUST SAYIN your dog's FEAR AGGRESSION is NOT CAUSED
by skurgical sexual mutilation, as part of her effort to RIP YOU OFF
your hard earned dough with the S/N NAZI Party pupaganda.

My rough collie bitch was always a little highly strung,


but after she had pups at two years old she has never had any


Yeah. Havin pups AIN'T a DIS-EASE.

all three of her pups have super temperaments, but her pedigree does
have a lot of line breeding in it.

Responsible line breedin is probably best.

She had a suspected pyometra a couple of years ago,

THAT can kill a dog FAST.

so obviously she had a full hysterectomy.


Unfortunately she still behaves slightly aggressively,

Was she aggressive pryor to surgery?

foot- snapping, and won't let me groom her easily.

Regardless of physical problems your dog DOES NOT TRUST YOU.

She is seven now, we also have her son who is five.

Age IS relevent only as far as the developmental stages reported
by Scott & Fuller. Five years is a psychological developmental
stage, as are eight months eight weeks and 18 months and five

HOWEver, Scott & Fuller DIDN'T LEARN that those stages ONLY
cause PROBLEMS if the dog is REPRESSED through training and
social isolation etc.


Does anyone have any clues as to whether this could just be behaviour
that she was so used to performing that taking the ovearies hasn't
altered it or has anyone had problems like this with rough collies??



ALL temperament and behavior problems are CAUSED BY MISHANDLING and
INAUPRIATE surgical sexual mutilation, amongst other stressors FHOWEND
in The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME:

Subject: dog urinates on everything

The Teachings Of Disciple Paulie

HOWEDY Disciple Paulie,

"Paul B" wrote in message

"The Puppy Wizard" wrote in

Here's Disciple Paulie:

Jeeze that Paulie guy has some good ideas,


why does no one listen to him?


Dog trainin AIN'T LUCK. "LUCK is for
SUCKERS," The Puppy Wizard's DADDY.

Here's MOORE Disciple Paulie:

Subject: Get off the bed... please?

Paul B =AD)
Subject: Good dogs!!! bad dogs.??
Date: 2000/10/21

Something occurred this morning that made me think how
we treat our dogs and what expectations we have of them.

Because it was a Saturday we slept in and the dogs
eventually jumped up on the bed on my wife's side. After
a brief greeting she very abruptly demanded they get down,
"OFF THE BED" she insisted, Sam looked at her perplexed,
so she repeated the "order", so Sam tried to lick her face,
"GET OFF" she said abruptly.

Sam got down but was unsure what he had done wrong. After
a bit they both came over and jumped up on my side, I patted
them etc and eventually asked them to get down, "off the bed,
good dogs" and they hopped off immediately with no prob's.

Eileen asked me why they obey me and not her so easily.
I told her they got down for me because I asked them to,
they know the command "off the bed" or "off anything" so
there is no need to demand it of them, ask them and they
will comply, demand it and they get confused because
they think you are annoyed with them but they don't know
why so they try to "make amends" which is why Sam licked her.

I have found giving dogs "payment" in advance i.e. "Sam
sit goodboy" makes the dogs want to respond, after all, all
dogs want to be "good dogs" and if you tell them they are
good then they feel an obligation to obey your request.

Telling Sam he's a good dog after he sit's apart from been too
late is also a gamble because if he doesn't sit then there's
no positive interaction. Trust your dog, ask it to do your
request and say "good dog" sincerely at the end of the request
and I bet you'll find your dog thinking then responding


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How to keep dog off my bed -
Something Funny Happened
The Other Night.... I said, "See?
You Just Have To ASK Them."

Date: 2002-08-03 15:40:45 PST

From: 2tails )
Subject: Get off the bed... please?
Date: 2001-07-02 20:52:32 PST

Something funny happened the other night....

Late in the evening, I usually relax on our bed for a while
before turning in... both of my dogs are nearly always on the
bed with me, sleeping. When my husband comes up to go
to bed for the night, usually one of the dogs is on his side of
the bed. His usual response is, "Get off, you *G--d----d* dogs!
OFF!... Get OFF!" Both dogs ignore him completely until he
pushes them off....

Well, the other night he did this, and as usual there was nary
a twitch from either of them. I said casually, "Maybe you
should just ask them."

He stared at me for a second. "Pepper, get off the bed...
please," he said grudgingly.

Immediately, Pepper got up and hopped off the bed!

Another pause. "Beau, off...good boy." A little more

Beau got up, stretched, and jumped off the bed too.

I said, "See? You just have to ASK them."

He got into bed, rolled over to go to sleep, and grouched,
"Never thought I'd have to plead with a *G--d----d* dog to get
offa MY bed!"

But... he hasn't been yelling OFF at the dogs anymore... :-)


From: Marshall Dermer )
Subject: Jerry's Dog Training Manual
Date: 2001-07-12 06:49:13 PST

Paul B wrote:
While the concept of shake cans is not new,
I haven't read any other advice that says to
praise immediately regardless of what the dog
does next (the common advice is to praise once
the dog is doing a desired behaviour or at least
stopped the unwanted behaviour), this is unique
to Jerry (and Marilyn) and from my own experiences
is an important part of the process.

And how do we know this aspect of his advice is right?

Jerry is not God and his manual is not the Bible.

His advice could be subject to an empirical analysis.


=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D

"Marshall Dermer"
wrote in message ...

From: Paul B )
Subject: Jerry's Dog Training Manual
Date: 2001-07-12 00:13:28 PST

Hello Marshall,

The way I view it from my observation of how
my dogs react is that the distraction interrupts
the dogs thought, not for good or bad, just
interrupts, the dog is therefore distracted for
a second and then will either continue the
behaviour or do something else.

The praise reassures the dog that the sound
distraction is not a threat or punishment,
however if everytime the dog resumes a
particular behaviour it's distracted immediately
(and praised immediately for reassurance) then
it quickly decides this behaviour is not fulfilling
and it ceases.

A dog will offer another behaviour in it's place
and if that is acceptable to us then we let it be
otherwise the distraction continues until a suitable
alternate behaviour is offered.

One example, Sam used to jump up on me
when I arrived home, I would shake can to
distract him right at the moment he was
about to jump up, after about 4 repetitions
he tried sitting and offering me his paw, of
course this was fine so I let it be.

While the concept of shake cans is not new,
I haven't read any other advice that says to
praise immediately regardless of what the
dog does next (the common advice is to
praise once the dog is doing a desired
behaviour or at least stopped the unwanted
behaviour), this is unique to Jerry (and Marilyn)
and from my own experiences is an important
part of the process.

Thanks Paul! He does recommend praising
a dog for barking, but he appears to recognize
that this may not work and so distraction
is recommended as a back up procedu

--- Original Message -----
From: Paul Bousie
To: The Puppy Wizard
Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 8:00 AM
Subject: Geday.

Hey J,

I see nothings changed on the NG. Still the same
old crappy advice and misunderstanding of the
only advice worth reading.

The problem with your method J is that I can't
answer the questions on the NG no more, people
are after a quick fix, they don't want to understand
that dog training requires a disiplined method, I'm
now really understanding that they are all result
orientated, they want the dog to sit, to down, to
stay, to come, to stop it's "bad" behaviours, they
want to stamp out each anxiety one at a time not
realising they create a new one as they deal with
the last.

I feel sorry for them, they don't understand, they
don't even realise the errors of thier ways and
they arn't self thinkers, they follow the majority,
after all if everyone says thats the way then it
must be. I've finally realised people don't want
to learn to train dogs they want a trained dog,
they want a little puppet that sits and stays and
downs and does all the nice doggy stuff or so
they think, then when the dog acts like a dog
they come squealing to the NG asking how to
stop the dog being a dog.

I have a nice little visulisation of a dogs mind
that I think demonstrates the way we approach
dog training. Imagine lots of little circles all in a
cluster, each one representing a dog anxiety or
behaviour ( desied or not), each circle represents
something about the dog, all of them create what
a dog is.

The traditional way to train a dog is to stamp out
the "bad" circles, try to eliminate as many as you
can, problem is each one you stamp out another
takes it's place (anxiety circles can't be destroyed
they just change), obviously it's a futile exercise,
but thats the traditional way.

Now imagine a big circle that completely surrounds
all the small circles, this big circle is the whole dog,
that's what we get hold of with all the little circles
inside, we don't see the little circles we see the BIG
circle the macro as you put it and use that to train.

I laugh now when I see posts critisising you, they
are critising something they don't even understand
or even have the capacity to understand.

See ya,


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"Paul B" wrote in message

"shaper" wrote in message

I have been reading these forums for a few weeks
now, and am getting really confused!!
but is there actually anyone who has used the
methods in this manual with any success ?

End Dog Training Method Manual Student.

Whole Wild World, BAR NONE.

I am wanting to get a rhodesian ridgeback soon
and really would like to know the best and most
effective way of training without using food treats
or violence (i do agree with what the guy says about
food treats and violence)
Thanks for any intelligent replies

I have tried his methods and found them extremely
effective. There are several areas in particular I found

He teaches you and the dog to pay attention to each
other all the time. He teaches you to have such good
communication with your dog you don't need leash
corrections or shock collars or even food, you can get
the dogs attention any time you like by calling it or with
a snap of your fingers.

When I trained both my dogs to "heel" or walk close
to me I ended up going to the parks and teaching them
without a lead at all, that ensured I had to use good
communication and was unable to be tempted to use
the lead to correct them.

Another part of the training I agree with is not using
the "policeman" approach, where you tell a dog "no"
or react with it in such a way that you become involved
in the behaviour (by trying to stop it), this approach often
results in a dog ceasing the behaviour when you are
about but doing it when you aren't (bin raiding, counter
surfing etc).

Basically you are taught to make your dog a good
friend who likes and wants to work for you for the
pleasure of working for you (setting the hierarchy
is included in this), teach it to recall reliably, then
to do everything else (sit, stay down etc etc).

Unwanted behaviours are addressed as they occur.
If you understand what you are trying to achieve and
are prepared to work with it you can get great results.


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-----Original Message-----
From: Don Fitz ]
Sent: Friday, 28 February 2003 11:53 a.m.
To: ;
Subject: Jerry Howe

Jerry uses your email in his posts and I was wondering
what you have to say of his training methods.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Bousie"
To: "'Don Fitz'" ;
Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2003 5:45 AM
Subject: Jerry Howe

If you have read the newsgroup posts then you must
already have a good idea about what I think.

His methods are the best I have come across. They
aren't a quick fix but an entire training concept so if
you aren't in for the long haul then don't bother. If
you go his way then you have to forget all the other
gibberish that other people spew, you have to believe
in what you are doing, then and only then will you get
the results.

You can't combine his methods with other training
methods, not until you understand what you are
trying to achieve, and even then I have only ever
combined about 2 other trainers ideas and even
then just a snip of what they suggest which works
in parallel with the Wits End concept.

His methods make you as the trainer completely
responsible for your actions, his methods make
you think and work out your own solutions for
any given situation, the default (the recall) is
always there to get things under control again.

His ideas and concepts teach you to work with
the dog, to develop a team and a willingness to
work together which is surely the best way to be.
His methods don't use force or intimidation but
they do totally emphasize the absolute importance
of pack (family pack) structure, without that you
can achieve almost nothing.

If you are wondering how a dog can be trained
without any negativity the answer lies in the recall,
anytime your dog doesn't follow through with a
request you call him / her to you, since the recall
is the first thing taught and it is taught in such a
way it becomes a reflex the dog always returns
to you, it is a subordinate position for the dog and
we release it by asking for a "heel" which is an
"equal" position.

His methods are very good, his understanding of
dogs is excellent, I recommend his methods.
Paul Bousie

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