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To, Mustang Sally (Siberians and Sighthounds).



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 30th 05, 01:02 AM
Mike Wolf
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Default To, Mustang Sally (Siberians and Sighthounds).

Hello,
You replied to a post I made about a month ago concerning my greyhound's
being diagnosed with hypothyroid. I am trying to determine whether they
really need to be on thyroid meds and if so if they need to be on the
level they are being given. Maybe you could help me.
I have 2 greyhounds, a 7 yr old female and a 10 yr old male. The male
was diagnosed about a year after we adopted him in 2000. The vet wanted
to test his thyroid because she thought his hair looked thinner then the
last time he was in. I couldn't notice any difference. He never seemed
to have any other "hypothyroid" symptoms. They did a T4 test and he was
put on 0.6 thyro-tabs which he has been on since. My female who I just
recently adopted was tested last year because of her age (6 at the time)
and was found to be hypothyroid also. She also showed no obvious
symptoms, not even thin hair. They put her on 0.8 thyro-tabs. She
started panting a lot and wanted to lay outside a lot to cool off. I
decided to have a thyroid panel done by a different vet on both dogs to
see if they really are hypothyroid. According to the new vet, the panels
show they are both indeed hypothyroid. The female was dropped down to
0.6. Since they had to be weened off the meds for six weeks for the
panel, I never noticed any real change in them when they were off the
meds except they both gained a little weight and the male shed a lot but
he is shedding a lot while on the meds.
These are the thyroid panel results:

Male: age 10
Free T4 (Equil. Dialysis)
Free T4-ed (ng/dL) 0.3
Free T4-ed (pmol/L) 3.9
T4 0.8 ug/dL
cTSH 3.7 ng/mL

Female: age 7
Free T4 (Equil. Dialysis)
Free T4-ed (ng/dL) 0.2
Free T4-ed (pmol/L) 2.6
T4 0.4 ug/dL
cTSH 0.82 ng/mL

Do either of these results indicate true hypothyroidism?
I would really appreciate if you could help me out. I have been doing a
much research as I can online about greyhounds and thyroid and I realise
that greyhounds have lower than normal thyroid levels. Thank you

Mike Wolf.

Please email me directly :

  #2  
Old April 30th 05, 08:57 PM
AndreaS
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Default

"Mike Wolf" wrote:
Hello,
You replied to a post I made about a month ago concerning my greyhound's
being diagnosed with hypothyroid. I am trying to determine whether they
really need to be on thyroid meds and if so if they need to be on the
level they are being given.


Mike, I'm not Sally but I have sighthounds (Basenjis) who are hypothryroid.
Two of my three HT dogs are and were always asymptomatic. You only start to
see problems when the HT has been on going and is getting bad. Why wait
until your dog is "sick" to start treatment? HT is a deficiency of sorts.
The body is not producing the right levels and so we supplement. Stop
trouble before it starts. If you knew you had a calcium deficiency you
wouldn't wait until your bones got brittle, would you? Same thing.

I have my vet send blood for a _full panel_ to Hemopet in CA and use Dr.Jean
Dodds for my thyroid analysis. She works with many sighthounds, including
Greyhounds. You cannot get a full thyroid picture with only a T4/T3. I'd
recommend you do that, or at least send her your results and see what she
says. She'll probably recommend a full panel.
http://www.itsfortheanimals.com/HEMOPET.HTM

HTH

--
-Andrea Stone
Saorsa Basenjis
http://home1.gte.net/res0s12z/


  #3  
Old May 1st 05, 12:19 AM
Mike Wolf
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Default

If you read my post I have had a full panel on both dogs and they are
both currently on thyroid meds. There is a theory that greyhounds have
lower normal thyroid levels than other dogs so I am trying to figuire
out if my dogs have low normal or low thyroid because I wouldn't want to
give them thyrod meds if they don't need them.

  #4  
Old May 1st 05, 06:29 AM
Rene
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Default


"Mike Wolf" wrote in message
...
If you read my post I have had a full panel on both dogs and they are
both currently on thyroid meds. There is a theory that greyhounds have
lower normal thyroid levels than other dogs so I am trying to figuire
out if my dogs have low normal or low thyroid because I wouldn't want to
give them thyrod meds if they don't need them.


Dr Dodds takes into account the breed, age, sex and what the dog is fed (raw
or commercial, if you include this on the form). The two different vets you
had do panels probably sent them to the same lab. Most times you have to
request the sample be sent to Dr Dodds or send it yourself. She is very
thorough. Like the previous poster mentioned, you can send Dr Dodds the
results you already have for a comment. Her advice would be much better
than any advice you can get here. And she knows greyhounds well to boot.

René



  #5  
Old May 1st 05, 08:36 PM
sighthounds & siberians
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Default

On Sat, 30 Apr 2005 19:57:50 GMT, "AndreaS"
wrote:

"Mike Wolf" wrote:
Hello,
You replied to a post I made about a month ago concerning my greyhound's
being diagnosed with hypothyroid. I am trying to determine whether they
really need to be on thyroid meds and if so if they need to be on the
level they are being given.


Mike, I'm not Sally but I have sighthounds (Basenjis) who are hypothryroid.
Two of my three HT dogs are and were always asymptomatic. You only start to
see problems when the HT has been on going and is getting bad. Why wait
until your dog is "sick" to start treatment? HT is a deficiency of sorts.
The body is not producing the right levels and so we supplement. Stop
trouble before it starts. If you knew you had a calcium deficiency you
wouldn't wait until your bones got brittle, would you? Same thing.


With all due respect, that's one point of view; there are others that
disagree. Hypothyroidism is unquestionably overdiagnosed in
Greyhounds. If a dog is borderline hypothyroid without symptoms, it
is not "sick", and it's not at all the same thing as a calcium
deficiency. I don't take any medications unless it's been proven to
me that I need them, and that includes thyroid supplement (since I
have no thyroid, it's been proven to me that I need it). My practice
with respect to my animals is the same.

I have my vet send blood for a _full panel_ to Hemopet in CA and use Dr.Jean
Dodds for my thyroid analysis. She works with many sighthounds, including
Greyhounds. You cannot get a full thyroid picture with only a T4/T3. I'd
recommend you do that, or at least send her your results and see what she
says. She'll probably recommend a full panel.


Some people might say that she'll probably recommend thyroid
supplementation. (Personally, not a big fan of Hemopet.) We're not
talking tick-borne diseases here; any lab can do a full thyroid panel.
And yes, a full thyroid panel is necessary to evaluate possible
hypothyroidism.

Mike, sorry that I forgot to get back to you about your dogs' thyroid
values. "Normal" levels of most values can vary somewhat from lab to
lab. The parameters I have are as follows:

TSH (ng/ml): 0 - 0.64
T4 (nmol/L): 2.1 - 25.7
Free T4 (pmol/L): 1.3 - 23.5

I'm not qualified to interpret lab results; all I can do is compare
results to my information as to normal results, if the measuring units
are the same, and I don't know whether they are in this case. Is your
vet aware that Greyhounds' normal thyroid values are lower than other
breeds'?

A hypothyroid dog will tend to be cold, not hot. My Greyhounds all
have normal thyroid function, but they get pretty woolly in the winter
and consequently shed a lot, even in mini-tufts. Common symptoms of
hypothyroidism are weight gain, lethary, cold intolerance, dry skin
(but GHs tend to have this normally), hair loss (ditto). If you keep
your dogs on thyroid supplementation, watch them carefully for signs
of hyperthyroidism.

Mustang Sally

  #7  
Old May 2nd 05, 08:11 AM
Mike Wolf
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Default

What are the symptoms of hyperthyroid? When my female greyhound was
first put on thyroid meds (0.8 for a 64 lb dog) she started panting a
lot. She seemed like she was hot all the time and wanted to lay outside
in the cool grass at night, even when the temp was in the 40's. Now she
is on 0.6 for the last couple of months and isn't having those symptoms
right now but she seems to be losing weight and I just noticed a sore
between her toes on her rear leg. I don't know that would have anything
to do with hyperthroid. My male's personality has changed recently. He
has been on thyroid meds for about 4 years at 0.6. Since he has been off
of them for a couple of months for the panel and put back on at 0.8 for
the last month he now acts very timid when I take him to the dogpark on
weekends which is totally opposite how he used to act. He used to love
to run and play with the other dogs but now he stays glued to my side.
At home he is still very playful. I don'y know if any of this is related
to his thyroid. But since going back on the thyroid meds he is shedding
like crazy!

  #8  
Old May 3rd 05, 08:52 PM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

wolfsmike wrote,
"What are the symptoms of hyperthyroid? When my female greyhound was
first put on thyroid meds (0.8 for a 64 lb dog) she started panting a
lot. She seemed like she was hot all the time and wanted to lay outside
in the cool grass at night, even when the temp was in the 40's. Now she
is on 0.6 for the last couple of months and isn't having those symptoms
right now but she seems to be losing weight and I just noticed a sore
between her toes on her rear leg. I don't know that would have anything
to do with hyperthroid. My male's personality has changed recently. He
has been on thyroid meds for about 4 years at 0.6. Since he has been off
of them for a couple of months for the panel and put back on at 0.8 for
the last month he now acts very timid when I take him to the dogpark on
weekends which is totally opposite how he used to act. He used to love
to run and play with the other dogs but now he stays glued to my side.
At home he is still very playful. I don'y know if any of this is related
to his thyroid. But since going back on the thyroid meds he is shedding
like crazy!"
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Those are good questions. I have been through a similer scenario and I
still don't know if my Greys need to be on thyroid meds and if they are
getting too much. Is excessive shedding related to too much thyroid or
not enought? Is timidity towards other dogs related to too much thyroid
or not enough?

  #9  
Old May 4th 05, 02:35 AM
sighthounds & siberians
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Tue, 3 May 2005 13:52:27 -0600, wrote:

wolfsmike wrote,
"What are the symptoms of hyperthyroid? When my female greyhound was
first put on thyroid meds (0.8 for a 64 lb dog) she started panting a
lot. She seemed like she was hot all the time and wanted to lay outside
in the cool grass at night, even when the temp was in the 40's. Now she
is on 0.6 for the last couple of months and isn't having those symptoms
right now but she seems to be losing weight and I just noticed a sore
between her toes on her rear leg. I don't know that would have anything
to do with hyperthroid. My male's personality has changed recently. He
has been on thyroid meds for about 4 years at 0.6. Since he has been off
of them for a couple of months for the panel and put back on at 0.8 for
the last month he now acts very timid when I take him to the dogpark on
weekends which is totally opposite how he used to act. He used to love
to run and play with the other dogs but now he stays glued to my side.
At home he is still very playful. I don'y know if any of this is related
to his thyroid. But since going back on the thyroid meds he is shedding
like crazy!"
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Those are good questions. I have been through a similer scenario and I
still don't know if my Greys need to be on thyroid meds and if they are
getting too much. Is excessive shedding related to too much thyroid or
not enought? Is timidity towards other dogs related to too much thyroid
or not enough?


It depends on what you mean by excessive shedding. I don't think
timidity with other dogs is symptomatic of hypothyroidism. A certain
large national adoption group believes that shyness toward humans is
related to hypothyroidism, but there is no proof of this, and I
personally have had spooky GHs with normal thyroid function, as well
as spooky hypothyroid GHs that did not improve on supplementation.

Symptoms of hypothyroidism include dry skin, weight gain, cold
intolerance, lethargy, etc.

Mustang Sally
 




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