Been shopping around for another puppy and contacted Tom Dugas of
Oklahoma City. Petite Amour Norwich Terriers also sells goats, and
other breeds of puppies. Going price for a good quality Norwich is
$2500 but he is offers his on the internet for $5000. Will ship a 10
week old puppy without accompaniment.

Besides trying to gouge, Mr. Dugas sounds like he is running a puppy
mill. BEWARE.

http://www.padk.com/?

Tom

On 9 May 2005 06:05:42 -0700 whittled these words:
Been shopping around for another puppy and contacted

other breeds of puppies. Going price for a good quality Norwich is
$2500 but he is offers his on the internet for $5000. Will ship a 10
week old puppy without accompaniment.

Besides trying to gouge, sounds like he is running a puppy
mill. BEWARE.

Perhaps you would have found him more acceptable if his price had been
lower? Breeding multpile breeds of puppies is a better indicator of
"watch out" than the price requested. Price should be last on your list
of questions. For most (but not necessarily all) breeds you will want to
see current (within the last year) CERF on both parents AND then take
those numbers and check it against the on-line database. If there are
discrepencies - well errors happen, so don't freak out but do follow up
and ensure the certificates are valid and match the dogs. Same with OFA
certificates. Exactly which tests should be registered with OFA will
vary by breed, but a breeder who is doing right by dogs will have their
dogs appropriately health checked and the results appropriately
registered. A good breeder aids in understanding the genetics of the
various lines by making health information publicly available and
accessible.

Don't start looking to buy a dog of any breed from a breeder until you
have learned what health problems are common in the breed, and what steps
an educated breeder takes to reduce the risks of those problems.

If you get to the point of getting that information you will be much
further along toward having found a good breeder.

Here is some information on how to find such good breeders:
http://dog-play.com/where.html-


--
Diane Blackman
http://dog-play.com/
http://dogplay.com/Shop/

Diane said in rec.pets.dogs.breeds:

Breeding multpile breeds of puppies is a better indicator of
^^^^^^^^
"watch out" than the price requested.

"Multpile" is the best typo I've seen in ages! It combines the
aspects of making piles of money from breeding dogs and from
breeding multiple breeds. I propose a new RPD meme.

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

HOWEDY Master Of Deception blankman,

wrote:
On 5 May 2005 03:31:09 -0700 Deb whittled these
words:
I have a friend here in North Texas looking for a Pompapoo.
Does anyone know of a reputable breeder?

Theoretcially it is possible to find such a breeder,

That so? CITES PLEASE?

but in reality it is unlikely.

You mean in YOUR REALITY as a lying dog abusing punk thug
coward active acute long term incurable MENTAL CASE {) ; ~ )

The problem is that

The PROBLEM IS THAT'S HOWE COME you got that TITLE:
"Master Of Deception". AIN'T IT.

it is hard enough to find a purebred dog breeder

You mean like the ETHICKAL BREEDERS we got RIGHT HERE?

who knows enough and cares enough about their dogs

You mean like lying frosty dahl DISCOVERING CANNIBALISM
in Labradors, Master Of Deception blankman {) ; ~ )

to breed for good health and temperament.

Those are risks usually associated with ETHICKALLY BRED
dogs, not cross breeds, Master Of Deception blankman.

PERHAPS THAT'S HOWE COME your ETHICKAL BREEDERS SCREEN
for congenital defects, Master Of Deception blankman.

And mixed breeds are even harder,

Yeah. On accHOWENT of the got FEWER PROBLEMS
on accHOWENT of "hybrid vigor" and not breedin
sickly dogs to sickly dogs generation after
generation while TRYING to IMPROVE THE BREED.

especially in the small dogs where breeders seem
to be particularly lacking in concern regarding.

You mean on accHOWENT of the SMALL DOGS got only SMALL
HEELTH and TEMPERAMENT PROBLEMS due to SMALLER GENES,
Master Of Deception blankman?

YOU GOT ANY CITES SUPPORTING YOUR SUPPOSITIONS and IDIOCY?

What most people want is a healthy dog,

Yeah? Is THAT HOWE COME EXXXPERT ETHICKAL BREEDERS
breed recessives so they can get BEAUTIFUL dogs?

of correct temperament.

Oh? You mean the Nature Vs Nurture argument again,
Master Of Deception blankman? YOU KNOW temperament
problems are NOT CAUSED by BAD BREEDIN, they're
CAUSED BY BAD HANDLING and TRAINING JUST LIKE HOWE
you and your ETHICKAL BREEDERS and PROFESSIONAL
TRAINERS and UNIVERSITY TRAINED BEHAVIORISTS approve
of and teach to poor guillible unsuspecting pet owners.

Often that is difficult to get.

Yeah. THAT'S ON ACCHOWENT OF YOUR EFFORTS TO
DEFEND YOUR ALLEGED RIGHT TO CHOKE SHOCK CRATE
BRIBE INTIMIDATE and MURDER dogs you're AFRAID
TO HURT CHOKE SHOCK CRATE BRIBE and INTIMIDATE
someMOORE.

A well meaning but unknowledgable breeder

A breeder of Cross Breed Dogs, Master Of Deception blankman?

will think that if the parents are
healthy the puppies will be healthy.

That's USUALLY the case, AIN'T IT, Master Of Deception blankman.

Not so.

That so?

If the breeder doesn't know the dogs in the pedigree

The Cross Bred Dogs PROBABLY AIN'T pedigreed or come
from a long line of EXXXPERTLY ETHICKALLY BRED dogs
who've been GENETICALLY SCREENED for DIS-EASES like
BAD TEMPERAMENTS, Master Of Deception blankman {); ~ )

they have no way of assessing the risk -

ESPECIALLY if they AIN'T ETHICKAL BREEDERS of PURE BRED DOGS.

and to many small dogs end up blind or crippled
due to lack of knowledge in breeding.

That so? CITES PLEASE?

Your friend has a number of choices.

Yeah. HOWEver, YOU ONLY GOT WON CHOICE, Master
Of Deception blankman. You can't post your lies
and abuse here abHOWETS nodoGgamenedMOORE {) ; ~ )

She can decide that she is willing to
take the risk of poor health or temperament.

The "RISK" is GREATLY DIMINISHED by CROSS BREEDING,
Master Of Deception blankman. You'd have to have
two very sick dogs to breed sick X bred pups... on
accHOWENT of HYBRID VIGOR, for EXXXAMPLE.

If she does that she also may want to consider
whether she wants to take the time and make the
effort to not reward such breeders

You mean breeders of fine Cross Bred Dogs, Master
Of Deception blankman?

and instead wait until a dog or puppy is available in rescue.

Oh? You want to talk abHOWET "RESCUE", Master Of Deception blankman?

Seems if ALL temperament and behavior problems
are CAUSED BY MISHANDLING then your RESCUE folks
SHOULD BE ABLE to REHABILITATE those dogs comin
to them FOR RESCUE and KEEP THEM IN THEIR original
HOWESES INSTEAD of MAKIN MONEY COMIN an GOIN, HAND
OVER FIST, while DISADVANTAGING EVERY WON concerned
INCLUDING the GUILLIBLE "FOSTER CARE" givers you punk
thug coward mental cases ABUSE just like HOWE you do
their dogs {) ; ~ )

There are, sadly, far too many in rescue

INDEED. They're the dog abusin MENTAL CASES
like yourself and your CLOSE PERSONAL REAL
LIFE PALS who HURT INTIMDIATE and MURDER
dogs FOR MONEY and LIE abHOWET it.

LIKE THIS, YOUR REAL LIFE PERSONAL PAL:

lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.

if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.

Lynn K.

"You Lying Sack Of Dung.When Have I Ever Said
Anything About Using A Prong Collar, Or Any Collar
Correction At All, To Make Dogs Friendly To House
Cats? Don't bother. The answer is never," lying "I
LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.

lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn writes about kats and dogs:

"This Article Is Something We've Put Together
For SF GSD Rescue

From: Lynn Kosmakos )
Subject: I have a dog he has cats
Date: 1999/11/20

wrote:
How can I get him to quit chasing the cats.

Okay - this is going to be a bit loooong - Lynn K.

"Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog. Don't
forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong works
better than a choke with less chance of injury to the dog in
this situation.

Electronics can be used to create an aversion to cats, but
should be used under the direction of a trainer who knows how
to instruct the owner in their proper use. Electronics can
take the form of shock, sonic or citronella collars. At that
time the owner will train with electronics instead of food or
whatever other reward system was being used."

8) Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog.
Don't forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong
works better than a choke with less chance of injury to the
dog in this situation. Have the dog in a sit-stay next to
you with most of the slack out of the leash and let the cat
walk through the room and up to the dog if it wishes (this is
why you have the dog muzzled).

If the dog makes an aggressive move towards the
cat, it must be corrected strongly with both your
voice and the collar.

This is important - the correction must be physically
very strong - not a nag. (PS: not many dogs need
to be corrected at all)."

Lynn K. wrote:

"I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in
one shelter.) But their ability to set their own
schedules and duties causes a great deal of
scheduling overhead.

And it takes effort and thought to ensure that
volunteers get the meaningful experience that
they work for.

Someone has to be responsible for that
Volunteer Program, and it is best done
by a non-volunteer."

Lynn K.

------------------------------=AD---

"I worked with one shelter where I bathed and groomed
every adoptable dog on intake. I frankly felt that the
effort/benefit equation was not balanced for some of the
older/ill poodle/terrier mixes we got in badly matted condition.

Should I have refused to groom them?

Or even more pertinent - I was one of the people who
had to make the euthanasia decisions at that shelter."

Lynn K.

And THEN get BAGGED, LYIN abHOWET
IT someMOO

Baghdad Bob Baghdadbob wrote in message
news:04591a2c5d469ef78d35c89ed4ed58f7@TeraNews.. .

Lynn, looks like he got you there if these
quotes are true.

In the posts below you take responsibility for
making those calls.

In your post above, you state you do not
make those calls.

Which one is it?


------------------------------=AD------------

You'd have to be a MENTAL CASE to DENY
what you've BEEN QUOTED as SAYIN despite
that YOU DON'T DO THAT.

WORDS OF WISDOM
from our own Lynn Kosmakos
1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of Zoloft every day
For Twenty Years


I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIUM

"I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder (manic-depression)
requiring 1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of Zoloft every day.
I, also, care about dogs and use this forum to learn more,
while happily sharing pertinent information I have learned.

But if I were ever to post such sh*t, I would hope that every
other reader of this group would be rightfully outraged."

"Community is an evolutionary thing that we earn
the right to participate in by observing the easily
understood rules and contributing to in constructive ways."

Lynn K.

"It wasn't that meds didn't work for her - she wouldn't take
them. I particularly remember a comment she made about
scarey side effects of Lithium. Hardly. After 17 years on
it, I think I'm qualified to say that the very low risk of
any side effect is far less frightening than the very real
dangers of life without it."
Lynn K.

------------------------------=AD-----------

because there are so many breeders

You mean the UNETHICKAL breeders of PURE BREED DOGS.

who either don't know or don't care about the dogs they breed.

You mean, like your own close personal REAL LIFE PAL
sindy SADIST MOOREON, your other PAL lying "I LOVE
KOEHLER" lynn's PARTNER in SFGSD RESCUE, Master Of
Deception blankman?:

"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.

You think HURTING a HUNTING DOG
to MAKE IT HUNT is NECESSARY???

You'll notice sindy sadist mooreon
doesn't post here noMOORE...

And neither can you, cause you're
a MENTAL CASE AND A LIAR

Here is a small sample

Oh? You AIN'T HAD ENOUGH YET, Master Of Deception blankman?

HERE'S YOUR ETHICKAL BREEDER of Labradorable Dogs:

"Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a
helper wield the stick, or do it yourself.
Tougher, less tractable dogs may require
you to progress to striking them more
sharply," lying frosty dahl, ethical breeder,
expert trainer.

You think a EXXXPERT trainer got to BEAT
a HUNTIN dog to MAKE IT HUNT?

"Pudge Was So Soft That She Could And
Would Avoid A Simple Swat On The Rump
With A Riding Crop," lying frosty dahl,
discoverer of CANNIBALISM in Labradors.

Perhaps the mom dog didn't want her babies HURT all
their lives like HOWE HOWER dog lovers PREFER to
HURT ...
"On the other extreme, the really hard dogs
we have trained require much more
frequent and heavy application of pressure
(PAIN j.h.) to get the job done,

This is continued resistance to your
increasing authority, and the job is
not done until it is overcome

Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a helper
wield the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher,
less tractable dogs may require you to
progress to striking them more sharply"

BUT NOBODY DOES THAT HERE...

"Try pinching the ear between the metal
casing and the collar, even the buckle on
the collar. Persist! Eventually, the dog will
give in but will squeal, thrash around, and
direct their efforts to escaping the ear pinch"

"You can press the dog's ear with a
shotshell instead of your thumb even
get a studded collar and pinch the ear
against that Make the dog's need to stop
the pinching so urgent that resisting your
will fades in importance.

CHUCK IT Under ITS Chin With That Ever
Ready Right Hand, As it catches on, try
using the stick and no ear pinch.

When the dog is digging out to beat the
stick and seems totally reliable without
any ear pinch, you are finished

This is continued resistance to your
increasing authority, and the job is
not done until it is overcome"

If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly
under the chin, say "No! Hold!"

(stay on the ear until it does) (perhaps
because the ear is getting tender, or the
dog has decided it isn't worth it)" lying
frosty dahl.

You ain't the brightest critter in creation, Master
Of Deception blankman {): ~ (

Or she can decide she wants one so badly that
she doesn't mind contributing to the problem.

WHAAAAT PROBLEM, Master Of Deception blankman?
SEEMS THE PROBLEM is CAUSED by you and your
ETHICKAL BREEDERS and trainers like THESE
valuable CONtributors to HOWER forums:

"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is
A Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It." mike duforth,
author: "Courteous Canine."

"I have heard advice stating that you should pre-load
your dog for Bitter Apple for it to work as efficiently as
possible. What does this mean?

When you bring home the Bitter Apple for the first time,
spray one squirt directly into the dog's mouth and walk
away. The dog won't be too thrilled with this but just
ignore him and continue your normal behavior."

--Mike Dufort
author of the zero selling book
"Courteous Canines"

Or she can consider a properly tested and
carefully bred purebred.

You mean, like WON from your ETHICKAL BREEDER pal
lying frosty dahl, Master Of Deception blankman?:

Weekly classes vs. In-House =3D "When You Are Teaching
Them Something (Like Obedience) A Sharp Jerk On Their
Lead Or Swat With A Stick Gets The Message Across,"
lyingfrosty dahl.

PUPPY WIZARD PAIN

lying frosty dahl says:

"To me, training a dog without using intimidation,
confrontation, or punishment is, indeed, everything. I
certainly reject "force" as Marilyn defines it. And "fear"
can be included under the category of intimidation.

Not a one of these is constructive in the training
of a dog; all are bad for the dog/handler relationship,
the dog's confidence, the dog's ultimate potential, etc.

But I do make use of tools and methods which I believe to
cause physical discomfort, including electric collars, pinch
collars, chain collars, switches, and the ear pinch.

I just don't equate the reaction with the tool/method--I look
at the dog to know its reaction. I think that is what some
people don't do: they are so full of surmises about what
causes what, that they never bother to regard the dog as
the authority." Amy.


Borrowed from: "Puppy Raising Tips" from
professional trainers, John and Amy Dahl.

"Around four months many puppies can withstand a
correction. Unfortunately this is the time they start
teething and if their mouth hurts, they may act
generally sensitive. If this is the case, be patient and
wait for all those baby teeth to fall out.

In training, retrievers often respond to physical correction
better than verbal correction. While "NO!" is extremely
useful if puppy is about to bite an electrical cord or steal
food off the table, when you are teaching them something
(like obedience) a sharp jerk on their lead or swat with a
stick gets the message across with less emotion and less
effect on their confidence.

If they drop the dummy and act like their mouth hurts
when they are teething, stop all retrieving and wait for
their mouth to feel better. A correction should be just
severe enough to get the dog to respond.

Repeated weak corrections are very stressful to the dog."

END lyingfrosty dahl, ETHICKAL BREEDER on your website...

For information on how to find such a breeder
start with

snip your crap link

You'll FIND lying frosty dahl and your other ETHICKAL
BREEDERS and TRAINERS and BEHAVIORISTS on your viciHOWES
website. You link to all the dog abusers liars and cowards
in this industry. You're nuthin but a SPAMMER.

Diane Blackman

HERE's your ETHICKAL BREEDER DENYING HER OWN WORDS:

Psychoclown wrote:
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks" things is something
you twisted out of context, because you are full of bizarro
manure."

Amy lyingfrosty dahl LIES with a straight face and says:

"I don't beat dogs, twist ears, or pinch toes. For the benefit
of anyone who is in doubt, and who chooses not to read the
article (SHE'D REALLY LIKE IT IF YOU DON'T READ IT!),
there is NO mention in it of twisting ears (INDEED, SHE
PINCHES THEM WITH SPIKES).

I would never slap a dog (SHE TEACHES PEOPLE TO
BEAT DOGS WITH STICKS TO MOTIVATE THEM).

I would never advise anyone to slap a dog (SHE'S A
PROVEN LIAR AND DOG ABUSER, do you expect her to
ADMIT THE TRUTH???).

I do not believe there is a single circumstance, ever, where
slapping a dog is anything but destructive."

RIGHT. She PINCHES, not twists... and chin cuff doesn't
mean hit, according to lyinglynn and avrama....

amy lyingfrosty dahl continues:

"Get a stick 30- or 40-inches long. You can have a helper
wield the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher, less tractable
dogs may require you to progress to striking them more
sharply.

REPEAT, VARYING HOW HARD YOU HIT THE DOG.

Now you are ready to progress to what most people think of
as force-fetching: the ear pinch.

Make the dog's need to stop the pinching so urgent that
resisting your will fades in importance.

but will squeal, thrash around, and direct their efforts to
escaping the ear pinch even get a studded collar and pinch
the ear against that if the dog still does not open its mouth,
get out the shotshell.

Try pinching the ear between the metal casing and the
collar, even the buckle on the collar. Persist! Eventually, the
dog will give in

With your hand on the collar and ear, say, 'fetch.'

Immediately tap the dog on the hindquarters with the stick.

Repeat "fetch" and pinch the ear all the way to the dummy.
You can press the dog's ear with a shotshell instead of your
thumb; Say 'fetch' while pressing the dummy against its lips
and pinching its ear."

Gotta LOVE koehler. dahl makes koheler look like St. Francis.

Amy Dahl writes:

"From where I sit, there is a difference. I haven't noticed
any of the contingent who like Koehler trying to force
their method on everyone, or calling others names because
they do not use the method.

I personally believe the Koehler method is a more
humane way of teaching than any alternative I have
studied.

And I am not averse to learning--I have studied a
number of methods.

Koehler, of course, stops far short of the specialized
work I do with retrievers, and some of the things in his
book, such as making the dog walk behind the handler
on the "finish," are inappropriate for retriever work.

Why do I think Koehler's method is more humane than others?

First, I don't believe "corrections vs. no corrections" is as
significant to dogs as it is to people. Applied correctly,
Koehler's method uses *no* intimidation, fear, or emotional
manipulation. It is clear and definite, and the handler's
actions are always predictable. The method is masterfully
designed to prevent confrontation or vying for control in
any way. It places high demands of responsibility on the
trainer, and takes a great deal of commitment to do correctly,
so it is not for the casual "dabbler." When done well,very
few corrections are needed.

In brief, I think the clarity, predictability, and absence
of emotional blackmail weigh more strongly in the method's
favor, than the occasional brief unpleasantness of correction
weighs against it." lying frosty dahl.

END lyingfrosty dahl

If you are interested in purchasing a dignified stick to
lay across you puppy's arse, just send a personal check
or money order in the amount of $30-$40 for a 30"-40"
long whuppin stick.

These all natural hickory switches will outlast an
entire litter of puppies! MAYBE MOORE!! Supplies
limited, so HURRY! Be the first in your club to have
the hickory switch training aid guaranteed for the life
of your dog (which may be much shorter than nature
intended!).

Ask yourself: "HOWE COME DOESN'T JERRY
HURT DOGS TO TRAIN THEM?"

And then just answer: "On AccHOWENT Of
JERRY KNOWS HOWE TO TRAIN DOGS
WITHOUT HURTING THEM."

And THEN SAY OUT LHOWED: "IGNORE
JERRY, HE'S MEAN TO DOG ABUSERS."

You can get all the information you need to
PUPPERLY handle and train your dog using
non force, non confrontational, scientific and
psychological methods, in your FREE copy
of The Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits'
End Dog Training Method Manual.

Your pal, Jerry "The Phony," Howe,
The Puppy Wizard. {}; ~ )


"The Koehler Method of Dog Training"
Howell Book House, 1996":


"Housebreaking problems:

Occasionally, there is a pup who seems determined to
relieve himself inside the house, regardless of how
often he has the opportunity to go outside. This dog
may require punishment. Make certain he is equipped
with a collar and piece of line so he can't avoid correction.

When you discover a mess, move in fast, take him to
the place of his error, and hold his head close enough
so that he associates his error with the punishment.
Punish him by spanking him with a light strap or
switch. Either one is better than a folded newspaper.

It is important to your future relationship that you do
not rush at him and start swinging before you get hold of him.

When he's been spanked, take him outside. Chances
are, if you are careful in your feeding and close
observation, you will not have to do much punishing.
Be consistent in your handling. To have a pup almost
house-broken and then force him to commit an error by
not providing an opportunity to go outside is very
unfair. Careful planning will make your job easier.


The same general techniques of housebreaking apply
to grown dogs that are inexperienced in the house.


For the grown dog who was reliable in the house and
then backslides, the method of correction differs
somewhat. In this group of "backsliders" we have the
"revenge piddler." This dog protests being alone by
messing on the floor and often in the middle of a bed.


The first step of correction is to confine the dog
closely in a part of the house when you go away, so
that he is constantly reminded of his obligation. The
fact that he once was reliable in the house is proof
that the dog knows right from wrong, and it leaves you
no other course than to punish him sufficiently to
convince him that the satisfaction of his wrongdoing is
not worth the consequences.


If the punishment is not severe enough, some of these
"backsliders" will think they're winning and will
continue to mess in the house. An indelible impression
can sometimes be made by giving the dog a hard
spanking of long duration, then leaving him tied by the
mess he's made so you can come back at twenty
minute intervals and punish him again for the same
thing.

In most cases, the dog that deliberately does
this disagreeable thing cannot be made reliable by the
light spanking that some owners seem to think is
adequate punishment. It will be better for your dog, as
well as the house, if you really pour it on him.

Some of the new "breaking scents" on the market can
aid in your house-breaking program. One type
discourages the dog from even visiting an
area. Another encourages him to relieve himself in the
area where it is sprinkled. Your pet shop should be
able to supply further information on the brands available
in your district.

Be fair to your dog in what and when you feed him and
be consistent in your efforts to housebreak him, and
you'll soon accomplish the job.

BARKING, WHINING, HOWLING, YODELING,
SCREAMING, AND WAILING

The fact that you realize you have such a problem
makes it certain you have "reproved" the dog often
enough to let him know you were against his sound
effects, even though your reproving didn't quiet them,
so we'll bypass the loudly clapped hands, the cup of
water in his face, and the "shame-shames" and start
with something more emphatic.

We'll begin with the easiest kind of vocalist to correct:
the one that charges gates, fences, doors, and
windows, barking furiously at familiar or imaginary
people and objects. A few clusters of BBs from a
good slingshot, in conjunction with the light line and
plenty of temptations, will cause such a dog to use
his mind rather than his mouth.

But you won't make the permanent impression unless
you supply dozens of opportunities for him to exercise
the control he thus acquires. Make sure these
opportunities don't always come at the same time
of the day, else he may learn to observe the "quiet
hour" and pursue his old routines at other times.

With the help of the light line, it will be easy to follow
the BBs with a long down to make sure he gets the
most from his lesson. As was mentioned before,
eliminating the senseless barking will not lessen the
dog's value as a watchdog but rather, as he grows
more discriminating, increase it.

The dog who vocalizes in bratty protest or
lonesomeness because you're gone constitutes a
different problem. If it is impractical for someone
to stay with him constantly (there are owners who
cater to neurosis by employing dog sitters), you'll have
to heed the neighbors and the law and quiet the dog.

This calls for a little ingenuity as well as a heavy hand.

Attach a line to your dog's collar, so your corrective
effort doesn't turn into a footrace around the house
until you reach a stalemate under the bed. This use of
the line in the correction will also serve to establish it
as a reminder to be quiet as the dog drags it around
when you're not present.

Next, equip yourself with a man's leather belt or a
strap heavy enough to give your particular dog a good
tanning. Yup-we're going to strike him. Real hard.
Remember, you're dealing with a dog who knows he
should be quiet and neighbors who have legal rights to
see that he does.

When the noise comes, instead of trying to sneak up to
the door so you can barge in while he's still barking,
which is generally impossible, respond to his first
sound with an emphatic bellow of "out," and keep
on bellowing as you charge back to his area.

Thunder through the door or gate, snatch up the belt
that you've conveniently placed, and descend on him.
He'll have no chance to dodge if you grab the line and
reel him in until his front feet are raised off the floor or,
if he's a big dog, until you've snubbed him up with a
hitch on something.

While he's held in close, lay the strap vigorously
against his thighs.

Keep pouring it on him until he thinks it's the bitter
end. A real whaling now may cut down somewhat
on the number of repeat performances that will be
necessary.

When you're finished and the dog is convinced that he
is, put him on a long down to think things over while you
catch your breath. After fifteen or twenty minutes, release
him from the stay and leave the area again.

So that you won't feel remorseful, reflect on the truth
that a great percentage of the barkers who are given
away to "good homes" end up in the kindly black box
with the sweet smell. Personally, I've always felt that
it's even better to spank children, even if they "cry
out," than to "put them to sleep."

You might have a long wait on that comfortable porch
before your dog starts broadcasting again. When he
does, let your long range bellow tie the consequent
correction to his first sound and repeat the
spanking, if anything emphasizing it a bit more.

It might be necessary to spend a Saturday or another
day off so that you'll have time to follow through
sufficiently. When you have a full day, you will be able
to convince him each yelp will have a bad
consequence, and the consistency will make your job
easier. If he gets away with his concert part of the
time, he'll be apt to gamble on your inconsistency.

After a half dozen corrections, "the reason and the
correction" will be tied in close enough association so
that you can move in on him without the preliminary
bellowing of "out." From then on, it's just a case of
laying for the dog and supplying enough bad
consequences of his noise so he'll no longer feel like
gambling.

If there has been a long history of barking and whining,
it sometimes requires a lot of work to make a dog be
quiet when you're not around, so give the above
method an honest try before you presume your dog
requires a more severe correction." wm koehler.

HOWEDY People,

The Puppy Wizard has enjoyed humiliating
and debunking HOWER so called EXXXPERTS
so much HE figgers you'll likeWIZE enjoy the
comedy of death terror and error. The Puppy
Wizard calls this phase of dog trainin ATTRITIION
for past crimes against man, dog, and humanity:

"Marshall Dermer" wrote in message
...

Di,
I don't believe you mentioned a particular kind of
training. If you are interested in training retrieval
behavior than do consider our own Amy Dahl's:
The 10-Minute Retriever : How to Make a Well-Mannered,
Obedient and Enthusiastic Gun Dog in 10 Minutes a Day
by John I. Dahl, Amy Dahl


You failed to mention your pals the dahls are
proven liars and dog abusers, professor "SCRUFF
SHAKE:"

lying frosty dahl sez she doesn't twist:
"None of my posts, prior to or subsequent to
Jerry Howe's attacks, encourage anyone to
twist ears, beat dogs, confront, intimidate,
frighten, or any of the crap he constantly
attributes to me.

I Would Never Advise Anyone To Slap A Dog I Do Not
Believe There Is A Single Circumstance Ever, Where
Slapping A Dog Is Anything But Destructive," "I don't see
why anyone would want to choke or beat a dog, or how any
trainer could possibly get a good working dog by making
them unhapper, fearful, cowering, etc." sez amy lying
frosty dahl who continues:


lying frosty dahl says:

"To me, training a dog without using intimidation,
confrontation, or punishment is, indeed, everything. I
certainly reject "force" as Marilyn defines it. And "fear"
can be included under the category of intimidation.

Not a one of these is constructive in the training
of a dog; all are bad for the dog/handler relationship,
the dog's confidence, the dog's ultimate potential, etc.

But I do make use of tools and methods which I believe to
cause physical discomfort, including electric collars, pinch
collars, chain collars, switches, and the ear pinch.

I just don't equate the reaction with the tool/method--I look
at the dog to know its reaction. I think that is what some
people don't do: they are so full of surmises about what
causes what, that they never bother to regard the dog as
the authority." Amy.

just $17.95 at Amazon.com.
(Also, it is best to killfile posts from the few
regulars here who are either ill-tempered, ill-mannered,
or just plain ill.) --Marshall


"Chin cuff absolutely does not mean slap," professora
gingold.

From: Marshall Dermer )
In article =ADet
writes:

-snip headers etc.
Yes. you're right, I really should find the book.. they
don't have these books in the local pet stores I
frequent, where do you find Koehler?
I got a nice large print copy from Amazon.com
Richard

Please try Powell's Books in Portland Oregon. Their URL is:

http://www.powells.com/

Unlike Amazon.com, Powell's keeps both new and used
books on its shelves. You can order books via e-email.


Koehler Method Of Dog Training
by Koehler, W R
Published by HOWELL BOOK HOUSE
(0876056575,

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D


The Amazing Puppy Wizard. {} ; ~ )

From:

Price should be last on your list of questions.

Most of my dogs have been given to me, but when I was searching for my
GSD {and having been away from the GSD world for decades}, price was one
of the FIRST questions I asked. I knew I couldn't afford a $5,000.00
dog. I had $1200.00 saved, figured $2000.00 wouldn't be too much of a
stretch, and didn't want to waste anyone's time discussing a breeding
that was out of my league. shrug

Debbie

On Mon, 9 May 2005 15:32:52 -0700 Debbie S whittled these words:

From:

Price should be last on your list of questions.

Most of my dogs have been given to me, but when I was searching for my
GSD {and having been away from the GSD world for decades}, price was one
of the FIRST questions I asked. I knew I couldn't afford a $5,000.00
dog. I had $1200.00 saved, figured $2000.00 wouldn't be too much of a
stretch, and didn't want to waste anyone's time discussing a breeding
that was out of my league. shrug

In my experience if a breeder is worth purchasing a dog from their
priority is the right home. Every breeder I would consider purchasing a
dog from will make price modifications or concessions based on the quality
of the placement. YMMV, of course.


--
Diane Blackman
http://dog-play.com/
http://dogplay.com/Shop/

wrote in message ...
On 9 May 2005 06:05:42 -0700 whittled these words:
Been shopping around for another puppy and contacted

other breeds of puppies. Going price for a good quality Norwich is
$2500 but he is offers his on the internet for $5000. Will ship a 10
week old puppy without accompaniment.

Besides trying to gouge, sounds like he is running a puppy
mill. BEWARE.

Perhaps you would have found him more acceptable if his price had been
lower? [snip]

--
Diane Blackman

Here in Norway, which is one of the top 5 most expensive countries in the
world, a Norwich Terrier pup (with all its shots and a Norwegian Kennel Klub
registration and ID chip) would cost a little over US$1000. That's what my
sister paid for hers. We have very few canine diseases in Norway, so 8 w.o.
pups can be sent by plane to just about any country in the world.

Rox

From:

Every breeder I would consider purchasing a dog from will make price
modifications or concessions based on the quality of the placement.

The bloodlines I was after are very sought-after for Schutzhund. I
didn't want dogs that only did well in club trials, I wanted bloodlines
from National and World podium dogs. That added to the fact that I am
not only unknown in the GSD world, but had no intention of doing
Schutzhund meant I paid full price. Quite frankly, I was surprised the
breeders I contacted would even consider selling a dog to me under those
circumstances.

Debbie

Debbie S wrote:


From:

Every breeder I would consider purchasing a dog from will make price
modifications or concessions based on the quality of the placement.

The bloodlines I was after are very sought-after for Schutzhund. I
didn't want dogs that only did well in club trials, I wanted bloodlines
from National and World podium dogs. That added to the fact that I am
not only unknown in the GSD world, but had no intention of doing
Schutzhund meant I paid full price. Quite frankly, I was surprised the
breeders I contacted would even consider selling a dog to me under those
circumstances.

But doesn't your own criteria above mean that price *wasn't* at the top
of your list? You had already narrowed the field considerably with
criteria that led you to those breeders in the first place. It was only
after you were looking at those specific bloodlines that price then
became the deciding factor.

I don't see how this is different from what Diane originally said.

Tara

On Wed, 11 May 2005 18:06:22 +0200 Fassen whittled these words:
Here in Norway, which is one of the top 5 most expensive countries in the
world, a Norwich Terrier pup (with all its shots and a Norwegian Kennel Klub
registration and ID chip) would cost a little over US$1000. That's what my
sister paid for hers. We have very few canine diseases in Norway, so 8 w.o.
pups can be sent by plane to just about any country in the world.

What do you mean when you use the term "canine diseases"? A dog with
developing PRA isn't contagious but that won't stop it from going blind.
A dog with severe CHD will be perfectly shippable but still in pain from
deteriorated hip joints.

And any breeder who would ship a puppy to anyone when they have no way of
helping the dog if the person can't or won't keep it is no kind of breder
to support. We kill millions of dogs a year in the USA. Good breeders
MUST be prepared to take back the dogs they have bred or their dogs will
very likely end up in a bad situation. 63% of dogs placed are given up
before the age of 2. So a breeder from Norway who would ship a puppy to
the USA without a LOT of backup and follow up is a very bad breeder
indeed.


--
Diane Blackman
http://dog-play.com/
http://dogplay.com/Shop/