My wife and I are planning to get a schnoodle puppy in a few weeks. She
will be 8 weeks old then. We would like to crate train.

I am concerned about crating while we are at work. We live relatively
close to home, and we have worked out a schedule where one of us can
make it home every three hours to let her out and play with her for a
little while. I'm just concerned that's too long and she will soil her
crate. Of course, I expect a few accidents, but I don't want to
override her den instinct by, in effect, forcing her to go in the
crate.

We have a fenced in back yard. Would we do better to let her stay out
there with our other dog during the day and work on crating only when
we are at home?

On 22 May 2005 21:29:50 -0700, wrote:

My wife and I are planning to get a schnoodle puppy in a few weeks. She
will be 8 weeks old then. We would like to crate train.

Why not a nice POODLE instead of paying someone to produce a mixed
breed? Oh well, I wish you the best with your new puppy. Sorry, the
whole "poo" and "doodle" trend just makes no sense to me.

I am concerned about crating while we are at work. We live relatively
close to home, and we have worked out a schedule where one of us can
make it home every three hours to let her out and play with her for a
little while. I'm just concerned that's too long and she will soil her
crate. Of course, I expect a few accidents, but I don't want to
override her den instinct by, in effect, forcing her to go in the
crate.

3 hours seems reasonable. Small breeds/mixes have teeny bladders.
Don't leave water in the crate, feed well before you leave in order to
get elimination before crating, and consider smaller meals (ideally, 4
meals until 3 months, then 3 untl 6 months, then 2 forever) for the
daytime, with a larger portion for dinner when you'll be home for an
extended period of time.

We have a fenced in back yard. Would we do better to let her stay out
there with our other dog during the day and work on crating only when
we are at home?

Your other dog is outside all day? How secure and safe is your yard?
No, I wouldn't leave a very young puppy out all day (then again, I
wouldn't leave any dog out all day). As far as crating when you're
home, crating is great for overnight when you can't supervise the
puppy, but the puppy should be out and about with you otherwise,
learning house rules.

--
Janet B
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfr...bedience/album

Janet B wrote:


Why not a nice POODLE instead of paying someone to produce a mixed
breed? Oh well, I wish you the best with your new puppy. Sorry, the
whole "poo" and "doodle" trend just makes no sense to me.

Actually, I would have preferred an adult mixed breed from a shelter.
The schnoodle is my wife's idea.

Your other dog is outside all day? How secure and safe is your yard?
No, I wouldn't leave a very young puppy out all day (then again, I
wouldn't leave any dog out all day). As far as crating when you're
home, crating is great for overnight when you can't supervise the
puppy, but the puppy should be out and about with you otherwise,
learning house rules.

Yes, we have a golden retriever who stays in the yard while we are at
work and is inside while we are at home. As far as the safety and
security of the yard, the golden has never gotten out (of course, she's
not a digger, either). I've discovered that we are apparently
"barbarians" for doing that. (Not saying that about you, Janet).
Apparently, the same people who would call us that also would criticize
us for keeping a dog inside all day while at work. I guess if you work
during the day, you're not supposed to own a dog.

On 23 May 2005 04:35:13 -0700, wrote:


Yes, we have a golden retriever who stays in the yard while we are at
work and is inside while we are at home. As far as the safety and
security of the yard, the golden has never gotten out (of course, she's
not a digger, either).

Keep in mind that getting out is not necessarily the only danger.
Other things (animals, people) getting IN, poisonings, theft - all
real dangers unfortunately. Especially with a really trusting breed
like a Golden.

I've discovered that we are apparently
"barbarians" for doing that. (Not saying that about you, Janet).

No - you're trying to do what you think is the best thing for your
dog. It may be. It may not be. The dog that belongs to the family
behind me is left out all day. She has an enclosed porch she can go
into, a dog house as well. She stands and howls mournfully a lot of
times though, when she's not charging the fence at my dogs (that has
ceased thanks to a new anti-bark device thank goodness!). If we get a
thunderstorm, she leaps over the fence and races around frantically
looking for a safe haven. The same fence that she never challenges
any other time. I worry about the dog a fair amount, and other times,
her howling is pretty annoying.

I feel that my dogs are safest by staying in my house when I'm not
home. My schedule varies a great deal and they are pretty flexible
and able to stay in for long periods with no problem. Petsitters or
owners able to come home midday are usually a better solution than
leaving the dog out.


Apparently, the same people who would call us that also would criticize
us for keeping a dog inside all day while at work. I guess if you work
during the day, you're not supposed to own a dog.

There's no such thing as a perfect world! You're right - criticism
about leaving a dog all day is common. There are a lot of us who see
owners who are gone to work 12 hours a day, who crate their dog or
don't give thought to midday breaks. Some dogs handle that ok, many
don't. When problems happen, it's the "dog's fault". It's hard to
have it all - dogs and careers. By paying attention to a dog's needs,
I think people can have jobs and dogs successfully. But ya gotta have
a plan, and at least for your impedning puppy, you seem to.

Best of luck with the new little one - work on your wife though, eh?
;-D

--
Janet B
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfr...bedience/album

On 23 May 2005 04:35:13 -0700, wrote:

Your other dog is outside all day? How secure and safe is your yard?
No, I wouldn't leave a very young puppy out all day (then again, I
wouldn't leave any dog out all day). As far as crating when you're
home, crating is great for overnight when you can't supervise the
puppy, but the puppy should be out and about with you otherwise,
learning house rules.

Yes, we have a golden retriever who stays in the yard while we are at
work and is inside while we are at home. As far as the safety and
security of the yard, the golden has never gotten out (of course, she's
not a digger, either). I've discovered that we are apparently
"barbarians" for doing that. (Not saying that about you, Janet).
Apparently, the same people who would call us that also would criticize
us for keeping a dog inside all day while at work. I guess if you work
during the day, you're not supposed to own a dog.

It is harder when you work all day, but it's doable. You have to also
realize that people will have opinions, and some of them very strong
opinions, about dogs. If you work all day, you can still own a dog,
but if you can't handle opinions being thrown at you from every
direction, you probably can't. Another part of the problem is that
some dogs can be outside better than other dogs. The fact that you
have two dogs can go both ways as well. Your pup won't be as lonely
and bored as if it were out alone, but it might get hurt out there
with your golden whereas you don't have to worry about fights or rough
play if your dog is alone. The whole issue about what can get into
your yard with your dogs while you are not there to intervene is
another one to think about. I have had dogs who preferred to be
outside and dogs who didn't want to be outside much more than to pee
unless I was right out there with them. In general, I wouldn't want
to have a very young dog outside all day, though, and would opt for
the crate.
--
Paula
"Anyway, other people are weird, but sometimes they have candy, so it's best to try to get along with them." Joe Bay

While you are at it, you might as well have a child and leave it at
home while you are at work...in a crate. No one can justify to me that
it is ok to lock a dog up all day long in a box to entertain you for a
few hours at night just to be boxed up again before you go to bed. And
for what, so they don't twinkle on your expenseve persian rug you
yuppes.

I am sorry, in life you have to make choices. Career or kids. Pet or
kids. The decision to have a pet should warrant the exact same thought
process and commitment as having kids less the college fund. Pets are
living creatures. Do you think they want to spend 75+% of their life in
a jail for doing nothing wrong. You want to be entertained when you get
home, get a big screen TV and a remote like the rest of us.

I would not have had kids if my wife was not going to be home at least
until they started school. The same goes for our dogs. I would not have
had dogs if there was not going to be anyone home to take care of them
a majority of the time.

Lets see any of you yuppes sit in a little box for what 8, 10,
sometimes 12 hours if you have to stay a little late. It would drive
you crazy. So why do it to your dogs. And don't give me this dogs are
den creatures. I don't remenber any dens in the wild with locks on
them. Lets see if you can hold your pee for 8, 10, 12 hours. Or lets
see you pee on command.

No, I guess you are not as inteligent as your living posessions.

"John Casey" wrote in
oups.com:

snip

No, I guess you are not as inteligent as your living posessions.

Overall, this is a poor attempt at a troll post.

Word usage - 2 (out of 10)
The author knows what words to use, although he usese them
inconsistently. He starts out calling it a crate and then switches to
box, then jail, then box again

home while you are at work...in a crate. No one can justify to me that
it is ok to lock a dog up all day long in a box to entertain you for a
snip
a jail for doing nothing wrong. You want to be entertained when you
snip
Lets see any of you yuppes sit in a little box for what 8, 10,

It would have been more effective if, one he had gone all the way to
jail, he would have kept with jail, or perhaps used othert terms with
the same negative connotations and imagery. I recommend the word box to
start with, then go to cage and then jail. You don't want to use jail
more than once or twice though, or it loses its effect.


Flow - 1 (out of 10)
The flow is the worst part of this. The author starts out with a
paragraph about dogs in cages, then interrupts the flow of this with two
paragraphs about kids and family, and then ends up back at dogs again.
the middle two paragraphs really interrupt the head of steam the person
who is going to reply to the troll is building up and completely wrecks
their train of thought, diminishing drastically the chances that the
author gets a reply.

There is another problem with the flow of the post as well, but this may
simply be due to lack of experience. The author, in attempting to troll
dog people, also unintentionally trolls wives/mothers who work outside
the home in his statement:
snip
I would not have had kids if my wife was not going to be home at least
until they started school. The same goes for our dogs. I would not have
snip


Placement of the post - 2 (out of 10)
Here, also, the popster fails to succeed. The post is in a fairly low-
traffic thread, ensuring that very few people will respond. Secondly,
this post just appears out of nowhere. In order to properly succeed, I
recommend placing one or two posts that aren't quite as inflammatory in
the thread. Something to increase the number of people looking at the
thread. Once that is done, then the troll post, after being corrected of
course, can be brought out to maximum exposure.


Final Grade - 5 (out of 30)

--
Marcel and Moogli
http://mudbunny.blogspot.com/

"Marcel Beaudoin" wrote in message
. ..
Placement of the post - 2 (out of 10)
Here, also, the popster fails to succeed. The post is in a fairly
low-
traffic thread, ensuring that very few people will respond.
Secondly,
this post just appears out of nowhere. In order to properly succeed,
I
recommend placing one or two posts that aren't quite as inflammatory
in
the thread. Something to increase the number of people looking at
the
thread. Once that is done, then the troll post, after being
corrected of
course, can be brought out to maximum exposure.


Final Grade - 5 (out of 30)

--
Marcel and Moogli
http://mudbunny.blogspot.com/

Or maybe he feels strongly about the subject. Many people do. I
appreciate you feel differently and this is a touchy subject. I
remember we discussed this when you first posted here about Moogli . I
was impressed by your polite reply to my strongly worded post but
your reply to John Casey sounds like you have spent too much time on
RPDB. It's a typical "you're a troll" post that I would expect from
one of The Regulars
--
Alison
http://catinfolinks.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/
http://doginfolinks.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/

"Alison" wrote in
:

Or maybe he feels strongly about the subject. Many people do. I
appreciate you feel differently and this is a touchy subject. I
remember we discussed this when you first posted here about Moogli . I
was impressed by your polite reply to my strongly worded post but
your reply to John Casey sounds like you have spent too much time on
RPDB. It's a typical "you're a troll" post that I would expect from
one of The Regulars

There is feeling strongly about the topic, and then there is being so
closed minded about it that no amount of discussion will allow you to see
that the other side has a point of view that is valid, even though you
don't agree with it.

The first person you can have a discussion with, the second person you
can't. Thus, I made (what I thought was) an attempt at a funny post.
Obviously it didn't go over that well.

--
Marcel and Moogli
http://mudbunny.blogspot.com/