A dog & canine forum. DogBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » DogBanter forum » Dog forums » Dog rescue
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

My dogs like to eat little children ...



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old June 7th 05, 06:49 AM
Winnie Oakbob
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default My dogs like to eat little children ...

What can I do now?
  #2  
Old June 7th 05, 06:24 PM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"A Completely New Model Of Learning"? Naaah. Pavlov Told
Us So 100 Years Ago. Sam Corson, Pavlov's Last Student
Demonstrated At UofOH Oxford, That Rehabilitation Of
Hyperactive Dogs Can Easily And Readily Be Done Using
TLC. Tender Loving Care Is At The Root Of The Scientific
Management Of Doggies. {) ; ~ )

HOWEDY People!

Sam Corson, Pavlov's Last Student Demonstrated At
UofOH Oxford That Rehabilitation Of Hyperactive
Dogs Can Easily And Readily Be Done Using TLC.
Tender Loving Care Is At The Root Of TheScientific
Management Of Doggies.

LeeCharlesKelley Wrote:

From what I've read of Jerry's method it incorporates


a completely new model of learning, which is based (in
simplest terms) on the idea that all behavior is the
result of finding a way to relieve emotional tension.

This is true not just for dogs but all animals.

You don't believe in the validity of this
particular model of learning? You don't
think it makes sense?

Fine, I guess.

But it makes total sense to me.

And it made sense to Pavlov, too,
though not many people know this.

"Postitive emotions arising in connection
with the perfection of a skill, irrespective
of its pragmatic significance at a given
moment, serve as the reinforcement."
IOW, emotions, not outside rewards, are
what reinforces any behavior.

Finn once saw a small mouse come out of a hole
atthe base of a tree. Needless to say his prey
instinct kicked in BIG TIME and he chased it
back into the hole. This was 7 years before
he died. Up until the very last time he walked
through that section of the park (an hour before
he went) he checked the base of that tree.

He saw that mouse exactly *once*....he never
saw it again. Don't we all have stories like
that?

Especially those of us with dogs whose
prey drives are pretty intense?

And there are lots of examples that may not
even require the prey drive to be active,
just a strong desire to do something: a dog
who wants to escape from the back yard will
learn how to do it once and never forget it,
a dog who wants to jump on the couch or the
bed doesn't need any repetitions to "reinforce"
or re-learn the behavior.

If something is important to a dog, he'll
learn how to do it. Once he learns it, he
learns it. The trick to getting him to
"unlearn" it, is to give him a more
emotionally satisfying replacement behavior.

With Oscar and the cat, the more satisfying
behavior was relating to me instead of the cat.
(He's a Lab, with a strong need for social
connections, so that was pretty easy.)

I've been experimenting recently with Jerry
Howe's method of using a sound distraction,
then praising the dog, without any physical
contact, for 15 seconds.

My initial reaction to his technique was that
it was silly to keep praising the dog that long.

I mean, Jerry's a nut, right?

But in every case except one, when I've followed
the exercise exactly, I've seen a definite
physiological change take place in the dog -
- yawning or stretching have been the usual
indicators -- and after only a few repetitions,
the dog often relaxes, curls up, and goes to sleep!

I've tried this on barking, counter-surfing,
separation anxiety, even two dogs who live
together and fight constantly. I was pretty
amazed when I saw this little Boston give up
her aggression and start to yawn!

It's too early for me to be convinced that it
will work every single time with every single
dog, or that it will even have a lasting effect
on these dogs, but so far I think that it's
effective at reducing emotional tension, which,
as you know, I believe that all behavior comes
from the dog trying to find a way to reduce
emotional tension. If you give the dog a
replacement behavior that successfully reduces
emotional tension, the first behavior will no
longer be necessary and the dog will stop doing it.

From: "LeeCharlesKelley" -
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 10:03:38 -0400

Subject: Has anyone read . .

Leah:

I'm curious now. Are there any of our more
experienced and educated trainers (Lynn, Diane,
Janet, Belinda, et al) who have heard of this
as a viable method?


Kelley: Doubtful, since being "educated" in this
case means being indocrinated into a total
misunderstanding about how a dog's mind actually
operates.

As I said in my post, everything the experts say
about dogs is wrong. If the common folklore was
true, what I've been doing wouldn't work at all,
ever. And it not only works, it works better
than the accepted, prescribed way of doing things.

It's good that you're curious, but I wouldn't look
to any "educated" trainers for answers, I'd look to
your dogs.

From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D."


To:
Sent: Friday, November 19, 2004 9:31 AM
Subject: How does diagnosis shape treatment?

How does diagnosis shape treatment?

Nearly every week I have a visit from Jerry Howe, who
publicizes himself as The Puppy Wizard. Jerry is a
master at behavioral modification of dogs.

His fundamental bedrock is the work Pavlov's last student,
the late Sam Corson, Ph.D., did at the U of Ohio (at Oxford,O).

Sam always pointed out if the dog stopped working for
you in the lab, Pavlov and he always took the dog away
from the lab, and put him in a loving home and gave him
TLC for a couple of months, and then started, very carefully,
over again.

Jerry believes that reward and constraint focused training
is immoral. I've watched him in one short session calm
impossible dogs, just about to be murdered (oops "put to
sleep") because of their "incorrigibly" violent behavior.

Sam was one of the first people to apply amphetamine to
hyperactivity (he searched the Middle West for hyperactive
dogs); but he never lost sight of the fundamental reality that
a dog is not a human, but does respond, doggily, to dog love.

You might be surprised to go to B. F. Skinner's "Cumulative
Record" and read the essay by Breland and Breland, "The
Misbehavior of Organisms".

Animals cannot be successfully trained unless the
trainer attends to the evolutionary history, the individual's
developmental history, and the environmental niche of
the animal being trained.

Yep, right there in Skinner's last and summary book.
Even with behavior mod, you must know the animal.

snip

Dogs or little boys, you have to know the individual
history, and the nature of he disorder.

Dr. Von

PS if you are interested in dogs, then take a look at
Jerry's work,

INTRO TO WITS' END DOG TRAINING MANUAL
George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D. F.R.S.H.

Several years ago one of my old students telephoned
to me and asked me what I knew about Doggie Do
Right, a device to cause your neighbor's dog to stop
barking.

I had not heard of the device, nor its inventor, Jerry
Howe, but I telephoned, read his website, and told
my graduate that I thought the device was worth a
trial - indeed I shut up the dogs in my neighborhood
by turning on Jerry's supersonic device.

After all we all know that dogs respond to whistles
humans cannot hear, so why not respond to "attaboy"
sounds which humans cannot hear.

My student lived far from my Florida homestead, so
he tried it on the three incredibly savage, hyperactive
and noisy dogs who lived behind a tall fence just 3 feet
back of his bedroom.

Hot rats! The device worked,

Andy got his sleep and I didn't think much of the
matter again.

A few months ago I had new neighbors on each
side of my house, four of them, all with noisy
unshuttupable dogs. Argh!

So I foned Andrew in Virgina, received the intelligence
that his neighbors dogs were still quiet, and then I foned
Jerry Howe, the inventor of Doggie Do Right, who came
to visit me.

Merlin walked into my office.

Jerry is a slender fellow with a belly button lenghth grey
beard tapering down his chest. I liked him immediately,
and I applied his instrument to the neighborhood again
which again became silent.

It occured to me that if this ultrasonic field worked with
dogs that we ought at least to ask the question, what
happens to humans in range of the device???

I asked Jerry to give me a list of customers and began
inquiring among them. One thing became immediately
evident. The Doggie Do Right not only shuts up your
neighbors' dogs, it calms and modifies your husband's behavior.

Holey Moley, Captain Marvel, this device has major potential.

In the meantime Jerry gave me a copy of his Wits End
Dog Training Manual. I was delighted. He also introduced
me to the world of professional dog trainers some of whom
even have Ph.D.s in psychology.

This was not such a delight as it appeared that none
of these luminaries had actually read Skinner, Lazarus
or other fountains of wisdom in psychology. Indeed, it
seemed as though they knew very little about the laws
of behavior at all!

Punishment and confrontation seemed to be their
major stock in trade.

Well, if you go to my website, www.drbiofeedback.com
you can read of the career of Sam Corson, I.P. Pavlov's
last student.

Sam demonstrated that rehabilitation of hyperactive
dogs can easily and readily be done using TLC, tender
loving care is at the root of the scientific management
of doggies.

Pavlov told us so 100 years ago.

So what are these degreed morons doing punishing
dogs, and shouting "NO" into their doggie faces? If
you pick up B.F.Skinner's last book, CUMULATIVE
RECORD, included in it is an essay by Keller Breland
and Maryann Breland entitled THE MISBEHAVIOR OF ORGANISMS.

Skinner deliberately included his students' chapter
to emphasize that you cannot manage the behavior
of animals unless you take into consideration 1. the
animal's evolutionary niche (who is the animal?);
2. the animal's personal history (who is the animal?)
and 3, the instinctive repetoire of the animal (who is
the animal?) and 4. the personality of the animal (who
is the animal?).

The Brelands moved far from the white rat. "Thirty-eight
species, totaling over 6,000 individual animals, have been
conditioned, and we have dared to tackle such unlikely
subjects as reindeer, cockatoos, raccoons, porpoises,
and whales."

Jerry Howe spends most of his times with dogs, but
he has learned Pavlov's lesson well. Dogs are individuals,
they are individual DOGS, and they respond most directly
and immediately to love and tender loving care.

Read with pleasure, and then go love your dog.

George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.
Who's Who Honoree since 1983

From: TooCool )

The Puppy Wizard's Wits End Training Method

I have studied canine behavior and dog training for
years. I have a huge library that covers every system
of training.

The Puppy Wizard's (Jerry Howe's) Wits' End Training
Method is by far the most scientific, the most advanced,
the kindest, the quickest and the most effective training
method yet discovered.

It is not an assortment of training tips and tricks; it is
a logically consistent system. Every behavior problem
and every obedience skill is treated in the same logically
consistent manner.

Please study his manual carefully. Please endeavor to
understand the basis of his system and please follow
his directions exactly. His manual is a masterpiece.
It is dense with theory, with explanation, with detailed
descriptions about why behavior problems occur and
how their solution should be approached.

One should not pick and choose from among his methods
based upon what you personally like or dislike. His is
not a bag of tricks but a complete and integrated system
for not only training a dog but for raising a loving
companion.

When I once said to Jerry that his system creates for
you the dog of your dreams, his response was that it
produces for your dog the owner of his dreams.

You see, Jerry has discovered that if you are gentle
with your dog then he will be gentle with you, if you
praise your dog every time he looks at you, then you
will become the center of your dogs world, if you use
Jerry's sound distraction with praise, then it takes
just minutes-sometimes merely seconds-to train your
dog to not misbehave (even in your absence) (Just 15
seconds this morning to train my 10 week old puppy to
lie quietly and let me clip his nails).

Using Jerry's scientific method (sound distraction /
praise / alteration / variation) it takes just minutes to
train you dog to respond to your commands.

What a pleasure it was for me to see my 6 week old
puppy running as fast has his wobbly little legs would
carry him in response to my recall command-and he
comes running every time I call no matter where we are
or what he is doing.

At ten weeks old now, my puppy never strains upon
his leash thanks to Jerry's hot & cold exercises and
his Family Pack Leadership exercises.

Jerry has discovered that if you scold your dog, if you
scream at him, if you intimidate him, if you hurt him,
if you force him then his natural response is to oppose
you.

Is Jerry a nut?

It doesn't make any difference to me whether he is or not.
It is a logical fallacy to judge a person's ideas based upon
their personality. As far as dogs are concerned, Jerry
wears his heart upon his sleeve. It touches him deeply
when he hears of trainers forcing, intimidating, scolding
or hurting dogs.

More than that, he knows that force is not effective
and that it will certainly lead to behavior problems;
sometime problems so severe that people put their
dogs down because of those problems.

I believe that it is natural for humans to want to control
their dog by force. Jerry knows this too. We have all been
at our wits' end, haven't we?

Dogs have a natural tendency to mimic. In scientific
literature it is referred to allelomimetic behavior. Dogs
respond in like kind to force; they respond in like kind
to praise.

Don't bribe your dog with treats; give him what he
wants most-your kind attention. Give him your praise.
You will be astonished at how your dog 's anxiety will
dissipate and how their behavior problems will dissipate
along with their anxiety.

Treat Jerry Howe's (The Puppy Wizard) Wits' End
Training Method as a scientific principle just as you
would the law of gravity and you will have astounding
success.

Dog behavior is just as scientific as is gravity.

If you follow Jerry's puppy rules you will get a sweet little
Magwai; if you don't you will surely get a little gremlin
(anyone see The Gremlins?). --Larry


"TooCool" wrote in message
news: ...

"Learning Theory"-An Insult to Canines

Classical and operant conditioning is founded in
what is termed "learning theory".

The four rudimentary rules of "learning theory" a
Something Good can start or be presented, so
behavior increases = Positive Reinforcement (R)

Something Good can end or be taken away, so behavior
decreases = Negative Punishment (P-)

Something Bad can start or be presented, so behavior
decreases = Positive Punishment (P)

Something Bad can end or be taken away, so behavior
increases = Negative Reinforcement (R-)

Proponents of "learning theory" believe that no
learning can take place without reinforcement or
punishment either positive or negative. That is why
they employ treats and force.

"Learning theory" is a flawed concept for
evolutionarily advanced species. Advanced species
learn without any external motivation. They are not
automatons that merely respond to stimuli. Their
evolutionary survival has endowed them with self
motivated learning behavior. Canines, in particular,
are curious, they love to learn and they exhibit
pride in what they have learned. They think-they
figure things out. They can invent games to play.
They can invent behaviors to drive you crazy. They
have emotions-they can be humorous and they can
be vindictive-their feelings can be hurt. They can
suffer terribly if you don't treat them with respect.

They actively seek their environment for new things to
learn. They also learn from watching other animals and
humans and they mimic their behavior (in the scientific
literature this is termed allelomimetic behavior). It is an
insult to the intelligence of dogs and to their owners to
employ operant conditioning (clicker training).

Dogs are not B. F. Skinner robots whose only capacity
to learn stems from the four rules of "learning
theory". Canines deserve treatment and training that
is tailored to their nature. You can literally ruin
your dog if your treatment and training does not
respect their nature.

Please study the Puppy Wizard's Wits' End Training
Method. It is the only available method, of which I
am aware, that is based upon the true nature of
canines. In his system, praise is not used as a
reinforcement or motivator, i. e., dogs are not asked
to work for praise.

--Larry

"TooCool" wrote in
message news:

Planarians are primitive, free-living, flat bodied,
freshwater creatures. They can be conditioned to
respond to stimuli, display the ability to master a
two-choice maze, and can transfer the memory of
training from one individual to another by feeding a
ground up planarian to another one.

It is this primitive level of learning that "Learning Theory"
and operant conditioning addresses. Operant conditioning
does not rely upon an animal's ability to think. It operates
upon a primitive (nervous system) level for animals in
general, regardless of the level of their brain development.

When you train a dog using clicker training, you are
training a mindless reaction to your clicker / reinforcement.
Your dog is not learning an idea-he is learning a conditioned
reflex. He will perform just like a robot when you give the
signal-he can't help it.

It has also been shown that when you later withdraw
your reinforcement that it will induce stress which will
lead to behavior problems-often quite severe.

Learning in humans is conceptual. "Learning theory"
plays absolutely no part in human learning. Humans
do not learn through a process of gaining some
reinforcement or avoiding some pain. They study their
environment, they form concepts, they learn logic (in
order to separate truth from falsity) and using
reasoning they attempt to integrate all of their
knowledge without contradiction. If humans seem to
respond to some reinforcement or to avoid some pain,
it is because they have consciously evaluated the
various alternatives and have made a reasoned
choice--that is not a conditioned behavior and
it is not an application of "Learning Theory".

Canines are not conceptual animals, but they do
possess the ability to think. Their thinking powers
are different both in kind and in degree from humans.
That is why it is so important to learn their nature
in order to train them successfully.

Operant conditioning operates at a primitive, nervous
system level. It does not take advantage of a dog's
ability to think-only his ability to be conditioned. The
act of subverting his nature as a thinking creature causes
stress and anxiety which can in turn produce behavior
problems. Please study the Puppy Wizard's Wits' End
Training Method. It is consonant with the nature of a
thinking dog. It will not induce stress and anxiety
and no behavior problems will result. --Larry


Death Producing Ulcers:
"Emotional Influences
On Health & Behavior"
Dr. George Von Hilsheimer

Emotional Influences On Behavior

Illness is directly related to depression and lack of
adjustment, particularly to a new environment (Parens,
McConville & Kaplan, 1966).

A WIDE RANGE of PSYCHOSOMATIC or
CORTICOVISCERAL DIS-EASES was surveyed
by Wittkower (1965) to demonstrate the enormous
importance of emotional factors in general health.

Interview findings of emotional material (recently
experienced hopelessness) pryor to biological
examinations correctly identified 11 out of 19 with
cervical cancer, and 25 of 32 who were cancer free
even though psychological tests failed to discriminate
these groups (Schmale & Iker, 1966)

150 lung cancer patients showed significantly
constricted expression of emotions. The had fewer
childhood behavior problems, and lower neuroticism
score than their cancer free controls. Heavy cigarette
smokers who DO NOT INHALE are more apt to have LUNG
CANCER. They, too, show LOWER neuroticism scores.
Among heavy cigarette smokers poor emotional
expression is as highly related to cancer as urban
residence and is more important than a chronic cough
or an air polluted environment (Kissen, 1966).

A ten year observation of all the women who developed
cancer in an isolated pupulation of 2,550 showed that
they tended to be unstable or sub stable personalities
characterized by melancholy and extraversion,
especially marked with those of an undecided body
build (Hagll, 1966). Personality dynamics effect both
the development of cancer and it's SITE. Cancer
may result from what appears to be a failure to grow--
somatically, behaviorally and psychologically
(Grinker, 1966).

In 109 cases leukemia and lymphoma were associated
with a number of losses or separations and with
feelings of sadness, anxiety, anger or hopelessness.
The PRIMARY FACTOR seems to be the shame and
hopelessness of running out of psychological resources
(Green, 1966). Cervical cancer patients are less
emotionally responsive, more isolative, and less
frequently diagnosed as having clinical neuroses than
cancer free patients. There is NO CLEAR DIFFERENCE in
their FEELINGS and ATTITUDES toward coitus (Rotkin,
Qunk, & Couchman, 1965).

Schmidt (1966) surveyed nearly 100 studies of
behaviorally induced DIS-EASE in animals CONFIRMING
and EXTENDING the DATA on PEOPLE. Behaviorally
induced DIS-EASES tend to fall into two groups;

(1) Hysteriform problems, which INCLUDE HYSTERICAL
SEIZURES and FORMS of AGGRESSION as well as
collective panic and epilepsies;

(2) organic modifications, including functional
difficulties and lesions affecting gastro intestinal,
cardio vascular, respiratory, sexual, endocrine, skin,
urinary, and neuro muscular systems.


It is INTERESTING, and SLIGHTLY HORRIFYING,
to note that the ONLY SCIENTIFIC RELEVANCE of
the standard six hour school day that I have been able
to detect in research is that Sawrey and Weisz quite
by accident found that six hours on and six hour off of
"EXECUTIVE BEHAVIOR" in monkeys was the ONLY
TIME STRUCTURE that INDUCED DEATH PRODUCING
ULCERS.


All truth passes through three stages.
First, it is ridiculed.
Second, it is violently opposed.
Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
-Arthur Schopenhauer


"Thank you for fighting the fine fight--
even tho it's a hopeless task,
in this system of things.
As long as man is ruling man,
there will be animals (and humans!)
abused and neglected. :-(
Your student," Juanita.


"If you've got them by the balls their hearts
and minds will follow,"
John Wayne.


The Amazing Puppy Wizard. {} ; ~ )

  #3  
Old June 14th 05, 01:55 AM
marika
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Winnie Oakbob" wrote in message
om...
What can I do now?


you would think women never signalled lack of interest by refusing
eye contact.

it is just clueless people who need to hear no.

and people posting on usenet

mk5000

And daddy doesn't understand it
he always said she was good as gold
and he can see
no reasons--i don't like mondays, boomtown rats


 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What does "bupkis" really mean [email protected] Dog behavior 275 June 3rd 05 03:08 AM
dog urinates on everything pooteo Dog behavior 1 February 18th 05 09:57 AM
dog scared of brushing? Brandy Dog behavior 5 February 15th 05 08:45 AM
light reading dogs giets Alpha Dog behavior 32 March 5th 04 05:22 AM
light reading dogs giets Alpha Dog behavior 0 March 3rd 04 08:41 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:29 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.2.0 (Unregistered)
Copyright 2004-2019 DogBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.