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Depomedrone and Prednisolone together....



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 8th 05, 06:02 PM
Walker Moore
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Default Depomedrone and Prednisolone together....

My dog (a 45kg labradore/gsd cross) has been on prednisolone for a few
months (one a day) as a last resort to control a rash which doesn't have
an obvious cause. As it's become less effective, the vet has given him a
depramedrone jab (should last 4 to 6 weeks) whilst he negotiates a very
expensive (non-steroidal) alternative treatment with my insurance company.

He's told me to wean him off the prednisolone pills but
I was since discussing the matter with another vet who lives nearby and he
tells me it's a very bad idea to mix prednisolone and depramedrone, and
that the vet should've weaned him off the former before injecting him with
the latter.

I thought I'd ask for third opinions here before ringing my vet. Is it OK
to take prednisolone after a depramedrone jab? Bearing in mind that he's
being weaned off the former. I don't know whether the neighbourhood vet
is being serious or just competitive because I don't use him.

--
Walker

  #2  
Old June 8th 05, 09:30 PM
Walker Moore
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On Wed, 08 Jun 2005 18:02:09 +0100, Walker Moore wrote:

My dog (a 45kg labradore/gsd cross) has been on prednisolone for a few
months (one a day) as a last resort to control a rash which doesn't have
an obvious cause. As it's become less effective, the vet has given him a
depramedrone jab


Don't know how I managed to spell depo-medrone correctly in the subject
but incorrectly all the way through the rest of the post. In short:

My dog has been on 1x5mg prednisolone pill a day for months.
My vet gave him a depo-medrone shot today, and told me to start
withdrawing the prednisolone. Another vet who lives locally reckons it's
dangerous to mix two corticosteroid treatments like this, and thinks the
withdrawal from prednisolone after a depo-medrone injection complicates
the withdrawal process and could even be dangerous. I'm looking for other
opinions on this. The local vet might be a competitive ass attempting to
make me switch vets. OTOH, he might be a genuine guy.

My vet also prescribed a seven day course of Marbocyl (an antimicrobial)
and I've since noticed on the prednisolone bottle: "Consideration should
be given to the use of antimicrobials due to the potential supression of
the immune system."

Warning signs are appearing everywhere. I hope I'm not over-reacting.
--
Walker Moore

  #3  
Old June 9th 05, 12:17 AM
Spot
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My moms cat gets a severe rash some sort of ganuloma something or other and
it's not uncommon for her to get an injection when it's severe even after
being on pred for a while. The vet then instructs my mom to withhold the
pred in pill form for 7 days then start it back up again. This occurs
maybe every other year that it gets bad enough for an injection. Otherwise
we just give her pred as needed. So far she's never had any bad reactions
but just as the other vet says I would ? on giving her both at the same time
even if you are tapering off the pred.

I would call the vet.
Celeste



"Walker Moore" wrote in message
newsan.2005.06.08.17.02.09.68085@ulysses...
My dog (a 45kg labradore/gsd cross) has been on prednisolone for a few
months (one a day) as a last resort to control a rash which doesn't have
an obvious cause. As it's become less effective, the vet has given him a
depramedrone jab (should last 4 to 6 weeks) whilst he negotiates a very
expensive (non-steroidal) alternative treatment with my insurance company.

He's told me to wean him off the prednisolone pills but
I was since discussing the matter with another vet who lives nearby and he
tells me it's a very bad idea to mix prednisolone and depramedrone, and
that the vet should've weaned him off the former before injecting him with
the latter.

I thought I'd ask for third opinions here before ringing my vet. Is it OK
to take prednisolone after a depramedrone jab? Bearing in mind that he's
being weaned off the former. I don't know whether the neighbourhood vet
is being serious or just competitive because I don't use him.

--
Walker



  #4  
Old June 9th 05, 01:56 AM
buglady
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Default

"Walker Moore" wrote in message
newsan.2005.06.08.20.30.22.66530@ulysses...
My dog (a 45kg labradore/gsd cross) has been on prednisolone for a few
months (one a day) as a last resort to control a rash which doesn't have
an obvious cause. As it's become less effective, the vet has given him a
depramedrone jab


Warning signs are appearing everywhere. I hope I'm not over-reacting.


Ask over in alt.med.veterinary.
Has the dog ever been tested for tick borne diseases? Fungal cultures done?
Skin scrapings done? No staph or yeast? Any other symptoms?

buglady
takeout the dog before replying


  #5  
Old June 9th 05, 07:43 AM
Walker Moore
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Default

On Thu, 09 Jun 2005 00:56:04 +0000, buglady wrote:

"Walker Moore" wrote in message
newsan.2005.06.08.20.30.22.66530@ulysses...
My dog (a 45kg labradore/gsd cross) has been on prednisolone for a few
months (one a day) as a last resort to control a rash which doesn't have
an obvious cause. As it's become less effective, the vet has given him a
depramedrone jab


Warning signs are appearing everywhere. I hope I'm not over-reacting.


Ask over in alt.med.veterinary.


I will, thanks.

Has the dog ever been tested for tick borne diseases? Fungal cultures
done? Skin scrapings done? No staph or yeast? Any other symptoms?


Yes. I've spent about $800 dollars on various tests (including all
those you've suggested) over a period of six months but they've all been
inconclusive. There are no other symptoms. It's like an allergy rash
but he doesn't have any allergies according to one testing phase!

The dog is now putting on weight, probably due to the prednisolone. That's
probably why he's being taken off them. I understand if they're being
taken daily, it's dangerous to just stop, so even stopping for a week (as
suggested by Spot) worries me but continuing to take them after a
depomedrone shot worries me because they're the same kind of steroid.
Over-simplifying things a bit, Depo-medrone is a liquid form of
prednisolone I think.

--
Walker

  #6  
Old June 9th 05, 12:51 PM
Spot
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I wasn't suggesting that you stop his medications I was just stating a fact
that my moms cat has this type of treatment. Both of these are a adrenal
class drug and my vet assures me that due to this fact that stopping her
pred for a week would not hurt her infact to keep giving it to her would be
way to much for her system to handle.

I know that you never stop prednisone that you must taper it slowly and in
small doses. I have taken prednisone myself for the last 9 year for a
kidney transplant.

Celeste

"Walker Moore" wrote in message
newsan.2005.06.09.06.43.07.775700@ulysses...
On Thu, 09 Jun 2005 00:56:04 +0000, buglady wrote:

"Walker Moore" wrote in message
newsan.2005.06.08.20.30.22.66530@ulysses...
My dog (a 45kg labradore/gsd cross) has been on prednisolone for a few
months (one a day) as a last resort to control a rash which doesn't

have
an obvious cause. As it's become less effective, the vet has given him

a
depramedrone jab


Warning signs are appearing everywhere. I hope I'm not over-reacting.


Ask over in alt.med.veterinary.


I will, thanks.

Has the dog ever been tested for tick borne diseases? Fungal cultures
done? Skin scrapings done? No staph or yeast? Any other symptoms?


Yes. I've spent about $800 dollars on various tests (including all
those you've suggested) over a period of six months but they've all been
inconclusive. There are no other symptoms. It's like an allergy rash
but he doesn't have any allergies according to one testing phase!

The dog is now putting on weight, probably due to the prednisolone. That's
probably why he's being taken off them. I understand if they're being
taken daily, it's dangerous to just stop, so even stopping for a week (as
suggested by Spot) worries me but continuing to take them after a
depomedrone shot worries me because they're the same kind of steroid.
Over-simplifying things a bit, Depo-medrone is a liquid form of
prednisolone I think.

--
Walker



  #7  
Old June 9th 05, 02:53 PM
Walker Moore
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Posts: n/a
Default

On Thu, 09 Jun 2005 11:51:26 +0000, Spot wrote:

I wasn't suggesting that you stop his medications


I'm sorry. I didn't mean to say that. I was hurriedly typing before
leaving for work and clearly using the wrong words. I meant - even if the
vet told me to leave the prednisolone for a week after a depo-medrone
injection, I'd still be a little concerned.

I was just stating a
fact that my moms cat has this type of treatment. Both of these are a
adrenal class drug and my vet assures me that due to this fact that
stopping her pred for a week would not hurt her infact to keep giving it
to her would be way to much for her system to handle.


That's basically what I'm worried about. After a depo-medrone boost, I
wonder if there should be a delay in re-administering the prednisolone,
even if I inted to wean the dog off it, just in case there's too much in
his system. Was your cat taking prednisolone pills daily at the time of
the depo-medrone shot? I'm under the impression that the pills can be
administered five-days apart (when effective), and you can stop taking
them abruptly when using them like that.

Thank you very much for all the information, and sorry for the
misunderstanding.
--
Walker

  #8  
Old June 9th 05, 10:34 PM
Spot
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You can not ever stop pred immediately. If you do it is a shock to the body
and can actually cause death if the body had so become dependent to the
point that it has quit making it's own adrenal steriods. To give the body
time to adjust it should be decreased in small doses over a time. If your
vet is suggesting 5 or 10 mg every 5 days you could probably stop it like
that. Personally I would taper it off even more till the dog was only
taking 5 mg before stopping.

Yes my moms cat takes the pills quite often through out the year. She can
go for 4 to 6 months without problems and all of a sudden over night she
will develop the granuloma from licking and pulling her hair out to the
point that she will have raw skin showing. At this point she starts on 10
mg daily for 10 days, 5 mg for 10 days, 5 mg every other day for 5 days then
down to 0.5 mg every other day for another 5 to 7 days. Hopefully by this
time it's under control and she's back to normal. There have been times
where she's gotten a shot and had to take the pred for another 2 months just
to get this controled. When she ends up getting a shot is if we give her
the high dose and it does nothing in a weeks time or the granuloma gets
worse in this time span.

When my vet put Barney on 60 mg of pred for his cancer we tapered it off 5
mg at a time but he was on a large dose for two weeks, 55 mg for two weeks,
50 mg 10 days, 45 mg for 10 days, and so on until it got to the point that
he was taking 10 mg every other day. At this point I would have tapered it
further but his arthritis was acting up so badly that he couldn't walk. The
pred helped with the cancer and with the arthritis till the dose got low
then it didn't do anything for his pain. I made the decision then to stop
the pred and put him back onto his pain medication. So I left him go for 48
hours with out pred then started him back onto his Deramaxx for the pain.
It was a risky move but so was giving him both medications at the same time
since the two together can be a deadly combination.

Celeste




"Walker Moore" wrote in message
newsan.2005.06.09.13.53.01.556047@ulysses...
On Thu, 09 Jun 2005 11:51:26 +0000, Spot wrote:

I wasn't suggesting that you stop his medications


I'm sorry. I didn't mean to say that. I was hurriedly typing before
leaving for work and clearly using the wrong words. I meant - even if the
vet told me to leave the prednisolone for a week after a depo-medrone
injection, I'd still be a little concerned.

I was just stating a
fact that my moms cat has this type of treatment. Both of these are a
adrenal class drug and my vet assures me that due to this fact that
stopping her pred for a week would not hurt her infact to keep giving it
to her would be way to much for her system to handle.


That's basically what I'm worried about. After a depo-medrone boost, I
wonder if there should be a delay in re-administering the prednisolone,
even if I inted to wean the dog off it, just in case there's too much in
his system. Was your cat taking prednisolone pills daily at the time of
the depo-medrone shot? I'm under the impression that the pills can be
administered five-days apart (when effective), and you can stop taking
them abruptly when using them like that.

Thank you very much for all the information, and sorry for the
misunderstanding.
--
Walker



  #9  
Old June 10th 05, 08:58 AM
Walker Moore
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On Thu, 09 Jun 2005 21:34:37 +0000, Spot wrote:

If
your vet is suggesting 5 or 10 mg every 5 days you could probably stop it
like that.


He hasn't. After reading tons of prednisolone documentation over the past
few days, I'm under the impression that you *can* stop taking it abruptly
if you've only been taking small doses five days apart. It's irregular
enough for your body not to become dependent upon it, apparently.

Personally I would taper it off even more till the dog was
only taking 5 mg before stopping.


Me too. But herein lies the dilemma. My dog has had a depo-medrone shot
and my vet has told me to wean him off the prednisolone exactly as you
say. Another vet tells me it dangerous to take prednisolone so soon
after a depo-medrone shot and nobody else seems able to confirm or deny
this. I've read tons of material, searched the internet through the night,
contacted the kennel club, a few veterinary associations, animal
charities, helplines and even other vets - but they all tell me to go back
to my vet if I have concerns. Well I've since done that (twice actually)
and he says everything "should" be alright. His vague language doesn't put
my mind at rest and, because nobody else will say "it's safe to give your
dog a prednisolone pill," or "it's dangerous to give your dog a
prednisolone pill," so soon after a depo-medrone shot, I'm absolutely
beside myself and terrified of the consequences (short and long term).

It's now 2 days since my dog had a prednisolone pill. 2 days since his
depo-medrone shot. I should start weaning him off the prednisolone today
(spacing the pills out 2 days apart for a week, then 3, etc.). I've taken
the day off work in order to try to establish how safe/dangerous it is to
start taking prednisolone so soon after a depo-medrone shot. I doubt I'll
find any answers.

--
Walker Moore

  #10  
Old June 10th 05, 11:27 AM
buglady
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"Walker Moore" wrote in message
newsan.2005.06.10.07.58.52.70242@ulysses...
It's now 2 days since my dog had a prednisolone pill. 2 days since his
depo-medrone shot. I should start weaning him off the prednisolone today
(spacing the pills out 2 days apart for a week, then 3, etc.). I've taken
the day off work in order to try to establish how safe/dangerous it is to
start taking prednisolone so soon after a depo-medrone shot. I doubt I'll
find any answers.


.............You might know this with all your reading, but I'll say it
anyway. When a dog (or person) has been on steroids, this tends to depress
the adrenal glands - the usual producer of corticosteroids. This is why
steroid use should be tapered off, as it gives the adrenals a chance to get
going again. Abrupt cessation of oral steroids can induce Addisonian like
symptoms . While a lot of Addisonian symptoms are vague, if your dog should
suddenly get wobbly or not be able to walk get to the vet immediately.

.......I don't know what to tell you about your original query as I don't
know.

.......WRT the rash, since your dog has been cleared of skin disease and pest
problems, I think I'd try to get this dog off grains, concentrate on
boosting the immune system and see if it does any good. While steroid use
is sometimes helpful, I've never been a big fan of repeated doses in
situations like these. They don't really get to the heart of the problem,
just take care of the symptoms temporarily.

buglady
take out the dog before replying


 




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