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help needed - sudden onset of severe pain and lameness



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 10th 05, 03:06 PM
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Default help needed - sudden onset of severe pain and lameness

My vet is on a witch hunt for the cause... I'm hoping to find someone
with a similar situation that might clue us all in and help her
diagnose.

I have a 3 year old GSD that progressed like this:
Tuesday night - played normal, bouncing all around, leaps and jumps,
little bit later, didn't finish all his dinner, acted fine

Wednesday morning - light appetite, drank well, a little quiet but no
obvious distress

Wednesday night - ate most of dinner, didn't finish, still acted
ok-ish, not real playful, but no signs of pain, assumed he had eaten
something that disagreed with him, as all fecal output, etc was all
normal and he was responsive, alert, just acted kind of tired.

Thursday morning, didn't finish all of dinner, went down stairs fine,
normal bathroom functions, came back upstairs fine, still seemed just
kind of down, no obvious pain or anything, decided to take him to vet
for a checkup when I got home from work.

Thursday afternoon, got home to find him in excrutiating pain. Looked
like instant arthritis in all joints in his body, or severe systemic
muscular pain. Cried out when he moved at all, extreme difficulty
walking, taking stairs. Vet said it looked like textbook Lymes disease,
but heartworm/Ehrlichia/Lyme test was negative and he gets the lyme
vaccine annually.

No apparent soreness to the touch, blood pressure high, eyes bloodshot,
trembling in limbs when standing, holding back leg under him more than
normal, no stumbling or dragging of paws or high stepping - just slow
painful steps, demeanor fine (normal and loving) but obviously hurting,
neck manipulation showed no pain in neck, spinal exam reavealed nothing
abnormal, as far as eating, kibble seems to painful to chew but softer
food is tolerated (assuming jaws hurt as well?), temperature just
slightly elevated above his normal - he's normally around 103, he was
103.2

He's on tetracycline for suspected Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, but no
change yet (only been about 18 hours so not surprising)

Anybody have any ideas? Something that eluded normal diagnosis? Again,
it looks exactly like Lymes Disease in symptoms. A $1200 MRI is out of
my budget and the vet doesn't think it's really a likely avenue for
solution, so I'm grasping at straws here. Any help appreciated.

Regards,

Cate

  #2  
Old June 10th 05, 06:47 PM
Tee
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Default

wrote in message
oups.com...

No apparent soreness to the touch, blood pressure high, eyes bloodshot,
trembling in limbs when standing, holding back leg under him more than
normal, no stumbling or dragging of paws or high stepping - just slow
painful steps, demeanor fine (normal and loving) but obviously hurting,
neck manipulation showed no pain in neck, spinal exam reavealed nothing
abnormal, as far as eating, kibble seems to painful to chew but softer
food is tolerated (assuming jaws hurt as well?), temperature just
slightly elevated above his normal - he's normally around 103, he was
103.2


Could he have ingested or absorbed something poisonous? Have you sprayed
your yard or home with any chemicals? Treated your carpets with anything?
What about the possibility of a snake or spider bite?

--
Tara


  #3  
Old June 10th 05, 07:07 PM
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Default

Ran down everything we could think of. There have been no pesticides,
no new foods, nothing that we can find. Snake, spider bite, localized
injury was searched for by the vet, we can't find so much as a mosquito
bite. No sensitivity anywhere, just seems like muscular or internal
joint pain. No recent vaccinations or exposures to new dogs either. No
accidents or other trauma that we know of.

Thanks

Cate

  #4  
Old June 11th 05, 12:16 AM
Marie
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Default

Try posting in alt.med.veterinary. They may have some insight to what's
going on.


wrote in message
oups.com...
My vet is on a witch hunt for the cause... I'm hoping to find someone
with a similar situation that might clue us all in and help her
diagnose.

I have a 3 year old GSD that progressed like this:
Tuesday night - played normal, bouncing all around, leaps and jumps,
little bit later, didn't finish all his dinner, acted fine

Wednesday morning - light appetite, drank well, a little quiet but no
obvious distress

Wednesday night - ate most of dinner, didn't finish, still acted
ok-ish, not real playful, but no signs of pain, assumed he had eaten
something that disagreed with him, as all fecal output, etc was all
normal and he was responsive, alert, just acted kind of tired.

Thursday morning, didn't finish all of dinner, went down stairs fine,
normal bathroom functions, came back upstairs fine, still seemed just
kind of down, no obvious pain or anything, decided to take him to vet
for a checkup when I got home from work.

Thursday afternoon, got home to find him in excrutiating pain. Looked
like instant arthritis in all joints in his body, or severe systemic
muscular pain. Cried out when he moved at all, extreme difficulty
walking, taking stairs. Vet said it looked like textbook Lymes disease,
but heartworm/Ehrlichia/Lyme test was negative and he gets the lyme
vaccine annually.

No apparent soreness to the touch, blood pressure high, eyes bloodshot,
trembling in limbs when standing, holding back leg under him more than
normal, no stumbling or dragging of paws or high stepping - just slow
painful steps, demeanor fine (normal and loving) but obviously hurting,
neck manipulation showed no pain in neck, spinal exam reavealed nothing
abnormal, as far as eating, kibble seems to painful to chew but softer
food is tolerated (assuming jaws hurt as well?), temperature just
slightly elevated above his normal - he's normally around 103, he was
103.2

He's on tetracycline for suspected Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, but no
change yet (only been about 18 hours so not surprising)

Anybody have any ideas? Something that eluded normal diagnosis? Again,
it looks exactly like Lymes Disease in symptoms. A $1200 MRI is out of
my budget and the vet doesn't think it's really a likely avenue for
solution, so I'm grasping at straws here. Any help appreciated.

Regards,

Cate



  #5  
Old June 11th 05, 02:19 PM
buglady
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Default

wrote in message
oups.com...
Thursday afternoon, got home to find him in excrutiating pain. Looked
like instant arthritis in all joints in his body, or severe systemic
muscular pain. Cried out when he moved at all, extreme difficulty
walking, taking stairs. Vet said it looked like textbook Lymes disease,
but heartworm/Ehrlichia/Lyme test was negative and he gets the lyme
vaccine annually.


.............I find it odd that the Lyme test was negative. When dogs have
had Lyme vax it is usually impossible to use the antibody tests for
diagnosis as they always test positive. Dogs who have had Lyme vax can also
have a more chronic form of Lyme. If it is early tick disease, there may
not be antibodies until later - a negative does not necessarily mean the dog
does not have a tick borne disease.

blood pressure high, eyes bloodshot,
trembling in limbs when standing, holding back leg under him more than
normal,

temperature just
slightly elevated above his normal - he's normally around 103, he was
103.2


...........the high blood pressure worries me, but don't know what could
cause it. Renal functions were normal - both blood tests and urine?

He's on tetracycline for suspected Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, but no
change yet (only been about 18 hours so not surprising)


..........how is she doing now? Any response to the tetracycline?

........with the eye symptoms it does sound more like RMSF:
http://www.vet.uga.edu/vpp/clerk/otis/
Other signs that may be evident include joint swelling, myalgia, dyspnea,
and neurological abnormalities due to meningoencephalitis. Vestibular ataxia
is the most common neurologic affliction. The presence of these signs
generally indicates a more disseminated lesion and a poorer clinical
prognosis.1

Ocular lesions often are associated with RMSF and result from vasculitis and
hemorrhage. Conjunctival hyperemia, hyphema, retinal hemorrhage, and
anterior uveitis also have been associated with RMSF. These ophthalmic
lesions tend to be mild and usually occur bilaterally. A fundic examination
often is required to diagnose RMSF-associated ocular disease and retinal
hemorrhages are the most common lesion

...............You didn't mention if blood tests were run. I think this is
crucial and indeed serial tests may need to be done, especially a CBC:
.........from the above site:
*The most consistent laboratory finding with RMSF is thrombocytopenia, with
platelet counts ranging from 23,000 to 220,000 /µl. The resolution of
thrombocytopenia also may be used to gauge the animal's response to
treatment.2 Other laboratory findings with RMSF include a moderate
leukocytosis that may have a mild left shift. A normocytic, normochromic
anemia also may be present. Biochemical abnormalities may include elevated
glucose and cholesterol concentrations as well as increased activity of
alkaline phosphatase (ALP) and alanine aminotransferase (ALT).
Hypoalbuminemia from vasculitis is often present. If the kidneys are
involved in the disease, the BUN may be elevated corresponding to the degree
of renal failure. This is normally observed only in the terminal stages of
the RMSF. Proteinuria may also be present, but is an inconsistent finding.2*

.........If you're not getting any results from tetracycline try doxycycline.
Dogs with Ehrlichia show remarkable response - within two days - if that's
the problem - even with negative test results. It is actually used for Lyme
disease also. Doses are much higher than normal. Go here to read more
about tick diseases:
http://www.minden.com/nowhereelse/ca...ck_disease.htm

Anybody have any ideas? Something that eluded normal diagnosis?


........don't think the high blood pressure fits with this, nor any kind of
pain, but inability to stand, trembling, not wanting to eat may be
consistent with Addison's disease. I think I'd get a ACTH stimulation test
done to rule it out if you're getting no response from antibiotics at the
proper dosages. Symptoms can be nebulous and a dog in an Addisonian crisis
is in a true emergency.

Please post back
buglady
take out the dog before replying


  #6  
Old June 14th 05, 02:30 PM
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Hi all, have an update. Tests are coming in and it is looking more and
more like RMSF. Apparently GSDs can get hit harder, as can young dogs
(under 3, he just turned 3). There is apparently neurological
involvement. He stopped eating entirely until we switched him to a pain
med (dermaxx) that seemed to actually help. With it, he will eat and
walk around, although he is unsteady and still obviously hurting. The
vets said that there is not really a way to help the neurological part
of the pain. His tests are all coming back with normal functions except
for high white blood cell and low platelet, also usually indicative
with RMSF.

Blood pressure finally dropped yesterday, vet thinks it might have been
pain response. The normal 24-48 hour improvement time on tetracycline
has long passed without the usual improvement, which points to the fact
that this sudden onset of RMSF has extensive involvement and long term
prognosis is a shot in the dark at this point. We did have a small
victory this morning in that before his morning does of pain meds he
got up without crying and was able to make it down the back stairs
himself (although he could not make it back up and had to be assisted).
It kind of offset the awful feeling we got last night when he lost his
coordination and fell over while eating last night.

This little guy (well 91 pounds) is my sunshine, and I'm taking time
off work to care for him. I hope he can make a full recovery, but I'm
having to face some possibility here that he might have the lingering
neurological damage sometimes seen.

Thanks for everyone's help.

Cate

  #7  
Old June 14th 05, 09:13 PM
buglady
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Default

wrote in message
oups.com...
snip
His tests are all coming back with normal functions except
for high white blood cell and low platelet, also usually indicative
with RMSF.

Blood pressure finally dropped yesterday, vet thinks it might have been
pain response.

.......boy that's good. I don't know if it happens to dogs, but cats can
blow out their retinas with prolonged high BP.

The normal 24-48 hour improvement time on tetracycline
has long passed without the usual improvement,


..........You might ask your vet about doxy. Doxy is in the same class as
tetracycline and I'm not exactly clear on why they use it more extensively
for TBDs. Could be it's less toxic or something.

We did have a small
victory this morning in that before his morning does of pain meds he
got up without crying and was able to make it down the back stairs
himself (although he could not make it back up and had to be assisted).
It kind of offset the awful feeling we got last night when he lost his
coordination and fell over while eating last night.


.......it will be up and down. Take each small victory where you can. Good
nursing care means a lot.

This little guy (well 91 pounds) is my sunshine, and I'm taking time
off work to care for him. I hope he can make a full recovery, but I'm
having to face some possibility here that he might have the lingering
neurological damage sometimes seen.


..........maybe, but you might round up a veterinary acupuncturist and have a
visit. Could be they might be able to help and this might be the perfect
time to start.

........am glad you're making some progress anyway and hope things keep
looking up. Thanks for posting back. It adds to the history and may aid
someone else down the line. Best of luck to you and your pup.

buglady
take out the dog before replying


  #8  
Old June 16th 05, 07:11 PM
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Oh, his eyes worried me badly... they really looked like they were just
swimming in blood. Very scary.

Well, we're continuing to see improvements here, much slower than
normal recovery, but I've learned he had three strikes against him with
recovery, he's a GSD and thus highly susceptible to RMSF, he's 3, 3 and
under are hit hardest, and neurological was involved at start of
treatment. He's still very stiff and sore and off balance, and in pain
in the low spots of pain med coverage, but he's perky and happy. He's
on dermaxx and twice daily doses of tetracycline (2 pills twice daily)

Thanks for the tip about an acupuncturist, I did find a chiropractor,
to see if that might help a little. I've told him that if he gets
better fast he can go ride the fire truck again

Cate

-- In case of 911, dial FIRE. No, wait, that's not it...
www.alorinna.com

 




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