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#1
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help needed - sudden onset of severe pain and lameness
My vet is on a witch hunt for the cause... I'm hoping to find someone
with a similar situation that might clue us all in and help her diagnose. I have a 3 year old GSD that progressed like this: Tuesday night - played normal, bouncing all around, leaps and jumps, little bit later, didn't finish all his dinner, acted fine Wednesday morning - light appetite, drank well, a little quiet but no obvious distress Wednesday night - ate most of dinner, didn't finish, still acted ok-ish, not real playful, but no signs of pain, assumed he had eaten something that disagreed with him, as all fecal output, etc was all normal and he was responsive, alert, just acted kind of tired. Thursday morning, didn't finish all of dinner, went down stairs fine, normal bathroom functions, came back upstairs fine, still seemed just kind of down, no obvious pain or anything, decided to take him to vet for a checkup when I got home from work. Thursday afternoon, got home to find him in excrutiating pain. Looked like instant arthritis in all joints in his body, or severe systemic muscular pain. Cried out when he moved at all, extreme difficulty walking, taking stairs. Vet said it looked like textbook Lymes disease, but heartworm/Ehrlichia/Lyme test was negative and he gets the lyme vaccine annually. No apparent soreness to the touch, blood pressure high, eyes bloodshot, trembling in limbs when standing, holding back leg under him more than normal, no stumbling or dragging of paws or high stepping - just slow painful steps, demeanor fine (normal and loving) but obviously hurting, neck manipulation showed no pain in neck, spinal exam reavealed nothing abnormal, as far as eating, kibble seems to painful to chew but softer food is tolerated (assuming jaws hurt as well?), temperature just slightly elevated above his normal - he's normally around 103, he was 103.2 He's on tetracycline for suspected Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, but no change yet (only been about 18 hours so not surprising) Anybody have any ideas? Something that eluded normal diagnosis? Again, it looks exactly like Lymes Disease in symptoms. A $1200 MRI is out of my budget and the vet doesn't think it's really a likely avenue for solution, so I'm grasping at straws here. Any help appreciated. Regards, Cate |
#2
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wrote in message
oups.com... No apparent soreness to the touch, blood pressure high, eyes bloodshot, trembling in limbs when standing, holding back leg under him more than normal, no stumbling or dragging of paws or high stepping - just slow painful steps, demeanor fine (normal and loving) but obviously hurting, neck manipulation showed no pain in neck, spinal exam reavealed nothing abnormal, as far as eating, kibble seems to painful to chew but softer food is tolerated (assuming jaws hurt as well?), temperature just slightly elevated above his normal - he's normally around 103, he was 103.2 Could he have ingested or absorbed something poisonous? Have you sprayed your yard or home with any chemicals? Treated your carpets with anything? What about the possibility of a snake or spider bite? -- Tara |
#3
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Ran down everything we could think of. There have been no pesticides,
no new foods, nothing that we can find. Snake, spider bite, localized injury was searched for by the vet, we can't find so much as a mosquito bite. No sensitivity anywhere, just seems like muscular or internal joint pain. No recent vaccinations or exposures to new dogs either. No accidents or other trauma that we know of. Thanks Cate |
#4
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Try posting in alt.med.veterinary. They may have some insight to what's
going on. wrote in message oups.com... My vet is on a witch hunt for the cause... I'm hoping to find someone with a similar situation that might clue us all in and help her diagnose. I have a 3 year old GSD that progressed like this: Tuesday night - played normal, bouncing all around, leaps and jumps, little bit later, didn't finish all his dinner, acted fine Wednesday morning - light appetite, drank well, a little quiet but no obvious distress Wednesday night - ate most of dinner, didn't finish, still acted ok-ish, not real playful, but no signs of pain, assumed he had eaten something that disagreed with him, as all fecal output, etc was all normal and he was responsive, alert, just acted kind of tired. Thursday morning, didn't finish all of dinner, went down stairs fine, normal bathroom functions, came back upstairs fine, still seemed just kind of down, no obvious pain or anything, decided to take him to vet for a checkup when I got home from work. Thursday afternoon, got home to find him in excrutiating pain. Looked like instant arthritis in all joints in his body, or severe systemic muscular pain. Cried out when he moved at all, extreme difficulty walking, taking stairs. Vet said it looked like textbook Lymes disease, but heartworm/Ehrlichia/Lyme test was negative and he gets the lyme vaccine annually. No apparent soreness to the touch, blood pressure high, eyes bloodshot, trembling in limbs when standing, holding back leg under him more than normal, no stumbling or dragging of paws or high stepping - just slow painful steps, demeanor fine (normal and loving) but obviously hurting, neck manipulation showed no pain in neck, spinal exam reavealed nothing abnormal, as far as eating, kibble seems to painful to chew but softer food is tolerated (assuming jaws hurt as well?), temperature just slightly elevated above his normal - he's normally around 103, he was 103.2 He's on tetracycline for suspected Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, but no change yet (only been about 18 hours so not surprising) Anybody have any ideas? Something that eluded normal diagnosis? Again, it looks exactly like Lymes Disease in symptoms. A $1200 MRI is out of my budget and the vet doesn't think it's really a likely avenue for solution, so I'm grasping at straws here. Any help appreciated. Regards, Cate |
#5
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wrote in message
oups.com... Thursday afternoon, got home to find him in excrutiating pain. Looked like instant arthritis in all joints in his body, or severe systemic muscular pain. Cried out when he moved at all, extreme difficulty walking, taking stairs. Vet said it looked like textbook Lymes disease, but heartworm/Ehrlichia/Lyme test was negative and he gets the lyme vaccine annually. .............I find it odd that the Lyme test was negative. When dogs have had Lyme vax it is usually impossible to use the antibody tests for diagnosis as they always test positive. Dogs who have had Lyme vax can also have a more chronic form of Lyme. If it is early tick disease, there may not be antibodies until later - a negative does not necessarily mean the dog does not have a tick borne disease. blood pressure high, eyes bloodshot, trembling in limbs when standing, holding back leg under him more than normal, temperature just slightly elevated above his normal - he's normally around 103, he was 103.2 ...........the high blood pressure worries me, but don't know what could cause it. Renal functions were normal - both blood tests and urine? He's on tetracycline for suspected Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, but no change yet (only been about 18 hours so not surprising) ..........how is she doing now? Any response to the tetracycline? ........with the eye symptoms it does sound more like RMSF: http://www.vet.uga.edu/vpp/clerk/otis/ Other signs that may be evident include joint swelling, myalgia, dyspnea, and neurological abnormalities due to meningoencephalitis. Vestibular ataxia is the most common neurologic affliction. The presence of these signs generally indicates a more disseminated lesion and a poorer clinical prognosis.1 Ocular lesions often are associated with RMSF and result from vasculitis and hemorrhage. Conjunctival hyperemia, hyphema, retinal hemorrhage, and anterior uveitis also have been associated with RMSF. These ophthalmic lesions tend to be mild and usually occur bilaterally. A fundic examination often is required to diagnose RMSF-associated ocular disease and retinal hemorrhages are the most common lesion ...............You didn't mention if blood tests were run. I think this is crucial and indeed serial tests may need to be done, especially a CBC: .........from the above site: *The most consistent laboratory finding with RMSF is thrombocytopenia, with platelet counts ranging from 23,000 to 220,000 /µl. The resolution of thrombocytopenia also may be used to gauge the animal's response to treatment.2 Other laboratory findings with RMSF include a moderate leukocytosis that may have a mild left shift. A normocytic, normochromic anemia also may be present. Biochemical abnormalities may include elevated glucose and cholesterol concentrations as well as increased activity of alkaline phosphatase (ALP) and alanine aminotransferase (ALT). Hypoalbuminemia from vasculitis is often present. If the kidneys are involved in the disease, the BUN may be elevated corresponding to the degree of renal failure. This is normally observed only in the terminal stages of the RMSF. Proteinuria may also be present, but is an inconsistent finding.2* .........If you're not getting any results from tetracycline try doxycycline. Dogs with Ehrlichia show remarkable response - within two days - if that's the problem - even with negative test results. It is actually used for Lyme disease also. Doses are much higher than normal. Go here to read more about tick diseases: http://www.minden.com/nowhereelse/ca...ck_disease.htm Anybody have any ideas? Something that eluded normal diagnosis? ........don't think the high blood pressure fits with this, nor any kind of pain, but inability to stand, trembling, not wanting to eat may be consistent with Addison's disease. I think I'd get a ACTH stimulation test done to rule it out if you're getting no response from antibiotics at the proper dosages. Symptoms can be nebulous and a dog in an Addisonian crisis is in a true emergency. Please post back buglady take out the dog before replying |
#6
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Hi all, have an update. Tests are coming in and it is looking more and
more like RMSF. Apparently GSDs can get hit harder, as can young dogs (under 3, he just turned 3). There is apparently neurological involvement. He stopped eating entirely until we switched him to a pain med (dermaxx) that seemed to actually help. With it, he will eat and walk around, although he is unsteady and still obviously hurting. The vets said that there is not really a way to help the neurological part of the pain. His tests are all coming back with normal functions except for high white blood cell and low platelet, also usually indicative with RMSF. Blood pressure finally dropped yesterday, vet thinks it might have been pain response. The normal 24-48 hour improvement time on tetracycline has long passed without the usual improvement, which points to the fact that this sudden onset of RMSF has extensive involvement and long term prognosis is a shot in the dark at this point. We did have a small victory this morning in that before his morning does of pain meds he got up without crying and was able to make it down the back stairs himself (although he could not make it back up and had to be assisted). It kind of offset the awful feeling we got last night when he lost his coordination and fell over while eating last night. This little guy (well 91 pounds) is my sunshine, and I'm taking time off work to care for him. I hope he can make a full recovery, but I'm having to face some possibility here that he might have the lingering neurological damage sometimes seen. Thanks for everyone's help. Cate |
#7
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wrote in message
oups.com... snip His tests are all coming back with normal functions except for high white blood cell and low platelet, also usually indicative with RMSF. Blood pressure finally dropped yesterday, vet thinks it might have been pain response. .......boy that's good. I don't know if it happens to dogs, but cats can blow out their retinas with prolonged high BP. The normal 24-48 hour improvement time on tetracycline has long passed without the usual improvement, ..........You might ask your vet about doxy. Doxy is in the same class as tetracycline and I'm not exactly clear on why they use it more extensively for TBDs. Could be it's less toxic or something. We did have a small victory this morning in that before his morning does of pain meds he got up without crying and was able to make it down the back stairs himself (although he could not make it back up and had to be assisted). It kind of offset the awful feeling we got last night when he lost his coordination and fell over while eating last night. .......it will be up and down. Take each small victory where you can. Good nursing care means a lot. This little guy (well 91 pounds) is my sunshine, and I'm taking time off work to care for him. I hope he can make a full recovery, but I'm having to face some possibility here that he might have the lingering neurological damage sometimes seen. ..........maybe, but you might round up a veterinary acupuncturist and have a visit. Could be they might be able to help and this might be the perfect time to start. ........am glad you're making some progress anyway and hope things keep looking up. Thanks for posting back. It adds to the history and may aid someone else down the line. Best of luck to you and your pup. buglady take out the dog before replying |
#8
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Oh, his eyes worried me badly... they really looked like they were just
swimming in blood. Very scary. Well, we're continuing to see improvements here, much slower than normal recovery, but I've learned he had three strikes against him with recovery, he's a GSD and thus highly susceptible to RMSF, he's 3, 3 and under are hit hardest, and neurological was involved at start of treatment. He's still very stiff and sore and off balance, and in pain in the low spots of pain med coverage, but he's perky and happy. He's on dermaxx and twice daily doses of tetracycline (2 pills twice daily) Thanks for the tip about an acupuncturist, I did find a chiropractor, to see if that might help a little. I've told him that if he gets better fast he can go ride the fire truck again Cate -- In case of 911, dial FIRE. No, wait, that's not it... www.alorinna.com |
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