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shock collars and prong collars



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 11th 05, 03:08 AM
Richard Palmer
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Default shock collars and prong collars

I know how we tend to humanize the emotions of our animals, but they think
as differently as our kids do. I love my dogs so much they even sleep in
bed with my wife and myself and would never do anything to hurt them, so
please at least hear me out.
Children do resond to spankings, but humans are one of very few species that
do, and dogs do not understand getting hit. If you want to talk the
language of an animal, you must think like them not expect them to
understand us. Watch a mother dog or alpha male correct a puppy or even
another dog correct another dog. They spar and one goes down submissively
while the winner bites at the throat. At first it worries us that this is
aggression, but watch closely as it almost never is aggression and the dogs
understand this.
I had a friend who had 2 Rotts who were his children and he loved them
greatly. What he did for a living was train dogs for police work around the
country. He surprised me when he offered to show me how to use a prong
collar on a dog we were training at that time. Now this particular dog we
rescued from euthenasia from the pound. He had been severley abused and
used in dog fighting and had a choke collar inbedded in his throat and
needed many surgeries. His last owner spent quite awhile in jail for what
he did. Now this dog had been triggered to kill cats and other small
animals which was a problem. I thought, how can I use a prong on this poor
thing. My friend asked me to trust him. I gave it a try. I have never
seen anything work so well so quick. In our walks it was like installing
power steering and in training the gentlest nudge gave just enough
correction. My dog responded like his mom had just scolded him. The state
has followed the dogs progress and neither they nor the vet can believe it's
the same animal and the miraculous turnaround. Oh and as for our other
pets, he no longer tries to eat them. I became a believer. I must caution
though that you should be shown how to fit and use a prong collar and no
children as they have a tendency to pull too hard. There is the oportunity
for abuse with a prong collar, but it can also be the gentlest and most
loving form of teaching to your dog.
Now as far as shock collars. I am not a fan of them for training as they
are a bit harsher than prongs. That said, I am in favor of the shock collar
invisible fence. I know of very few people who don't live close to a road
or traffic and this little device to keep the dog within its boundaries has
saved an untold number of lives.
My dogs eat $48 a bag food, run on our farm under our supervision, play with
our 5 children and 6 grandchildren and never spend a night outside. They
each get a kiss goodbye in the morning and hugs as they great us when we get
home. They get the best vet care money can buy. My kids kid that we love
the dogs more than them, so believe me that they would not see a prong
collar if I thought it was abusive. The dogs will accept and understand
this method better than anything else if done right and my babies will
actually bring their prongs to me and get excited about going to work. You
tell me if your dogs are excited about your training programs. Granted that
I had high caliber trainer work with me so my results naturally were high,
but don't debase a method just because it looks arcane and cruel.


  #2  
Old June 11th 05, 03:57 AM
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Default

On Sat, 11 Jun 2005 02:08:02 GMT Richard Palmer whittled these words:

Now as far as shock collars. I am not a fan of them for training as they
are a bit harsher than prongs.


Um - that suggests you do not have much experience with elecronic training
collars. Effective use of an electronic training collar uses various
levels, including levels so low they can be barely felt. They are precise
and less subject to being increased accidentally purely due to emotion. I
do not personally use an electronic training collar but I have felt one,
observered its use and read a significant amount of information on the
devices. I've seen them used very badly, and I've seen them used very
well. Most pet owners should stay far away from the devices because their
resort to them is generally from laziness, which means they won't take the
time to learn what they need to know.


--
Diane Blackman
http://dog-play.com/
http://dogplay.com/Shop/
  #3  
Old June 11th 05, 04:35 PM
Hilo Hairy
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Default

wrote in :

Now as far as shock collars. I am not a fan of them for training as
they are a bit harsher than prongs.


Um - that suggests you do not have much experience with elecronic
training collars. Effective use of an electronic training collar uses
various levels, including levels so low they can be barely felt. They
are precise and less subject to being increased accidentally purely
due to emotion. I do not personally use an electronic training collar
but I have felt one, observered its use and read a significant amount
of information on the devices. I've seen them used very badly, and
I've seen them used very well. Most pet owners should stay far away
from the devices because their resort to them is generally from
laziness, which means they won't take the time to learn what they need
to know.


Our flat half acre with slopes at the edges and views from most sides
doesn't allow for fences. We use an invisible fence shock collar instead.
Took Bo Peep 2- twenty minute sessions to get it. In the year since she
only once left the property, led off by a stray. She came back with much
contrition in her eyes. Every morning she waits before leaving our bedroom
for us to put the electric collar on her neck.

Estheticly, I'd rather be without it but it may have saved her life.
http://www.dogster.com/?150615

What do you people do about this guy who rants in mostly capital letters?
Reading him makes me feel like there's a angry / crazy person in my brain.
Does his name stay still so that you can plonk him?
  #4  
Old June 13th 05, 03:55 PM
Jennifer
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Default

Hilo Hairy wrote:
wrote in :


Now as far as shock collars. I am not a fan of them for training as
they are a bit harsher than prongs.


Um - that suggests you do not have much experience with elecronic
training collars. Effective use of an electronic training collar uses
various levels, including levels so low they can be barely felt. They
are precise and less subject to being increased accidentally purely
due to emotion. I do not personally use an electronic training collar
but I have felt one, observered its use and read a significant amount
of information on the devices. I've seen them used very badly, and
I've seen them used very well. Most pet owners should stay far away
from the devices because their resort to them is generally from
laziness, which means they won't take the time to learn what they need
to know.



Our flat half acre with slopes at the edges and views from most sides
doesn't allow for fences. We use an invisible fence shock collar instead.
Took Bo Peep 2- twenty minute sessions to get it. In the year since she
only once left the property, led off by a stray. She came back with much
contrition in her eyes. Every morning she waits before leaving our bedroom
for us to put the electric collar on her neck.

Estheticly, I'd rather be without it but it may have saved her life.
http://www.dogster.com/?150615

What do you people do about this guy who rants in mostly capital letters?
Reading him makes me feel like there's a angry / crazy person in my brain.
Does his name stay still so that you can plonk him?


Everyone usually just puts him in the killfile. He changes his name and
email every so often so you have to killfile him again. I think I have
about 6 or 7 different addresses for him in mine, but it is well worth
the time it takes to killfile so I don't have to read his garbage.
  #5  
Old June 13th 05, 04:06 PM
diddy
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Posts: n/a
Default

in thread . 97.131: Hilo
Hairy whittled the following words:


What do you people do about this guy who rants in mostly capital
letters? Reading him makes me feel like there's a angry / crazy person
in my brain. Does his name stay still so that you can plonk him?



He tends to cross post to many groups. The easiest way to save a lot of
grief and eliminate a LOT of chaff (including him) is to kill anything with
crossposted characteristics in your newsreader. Or perhaps kill limiting
cross posts to just 2-3 groups.
  #6  
Old July 25th 05, 08:18 PM
Chanzilla
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Default

I'm new to this ng, and originally here to find a few contributors for
my new site, but I had to weigh-in on this topic for a minute.

I have a 15-month-old red-nose AmStaff, who is fiesty, playful, and
very curious. Before her first heat, she was definitely a handful,
especially for a first-time owner. If it hadn't been for a neighbor
who bred blue-nose pits, I might not have been able to keep Brandy for
long.

From potty-training to boundaries, from stealing food to destroying
furniture, I've never had to use anything more than a stern voice and a
slap on the ass. Louis (my neighbor) said that consistancy is the key.
I originally went out and spent a pretty good chunk of change on an
electric collar and the invisible fence kit, and when I went over to
his house to ask him how to use it, he simply asked "Do you still have
the receipt?" I have to take credence from a guy who has three rather
large pits (one male, two female) who own the house without destroying
it (they're still outside dogs, but the living room is their second
home) and get along very well with his two-year-old daughter. His dogs
are amazing (not what I had imagined when thinking pitbulls), and he
says the most he's had to break out was a rolled-up newspaper, and even
then it's more for show. These dogs aren't just trained, they're
responsive. While my own isn't as strictly obedient, she knows not to
go into the kitchen, even when I'm not home, and if she gets out, she
doesn't wander outside the yard. She never wanders out into the street
or into anyone's car without permission from me.

I'm not saying all the other stuff is better or worse, as I'm no dog
expert. I just wanted to offer an alternative to this thread's
argument.

Chan Mainor
www.sacbreeds.com
  #7  
Old July 25th 05, 11:38 PM
Robin
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Posts: n/a
Default


"Chanzilla" wrote in message
...
I'm new to this ng, and originally here to find a few
contributors for
my new site, but I had to weigh-in on this topic for a
minute.

I have a 15-month-old red-nose AmStaff, who is fiesty,
playful, and
very curious. Before her first heat, she was definitely a
handful,
especially for a first-time owner. If it hadn't been for
a neighbor
who bred blue-nose pits, I might not have been able to
keep Brandy for
long.

From potty-training to boundaries, from stealing food to
destroying
furniture, I've never had to use anything more than a
stern voice and a
slap on the ass. Louis (my neighbor) said that
consistancy is the key.
I originally went out and spent a pretty good chunk of
change on an
electric collar and the invisible fence kit, and when I
went over to
his house to ask him how to use it, he simply asked "Do
you still have
the receipt?" I have to take credence from a guy who has
three rather
large pits (one male, two female) who own the house
without destroying
it (they're still outside dogs, but the living room is
their second
home) and get along very well with his two-year-old
daughter. His dogs
are amazing (not what I had imagined when thinking
pitbulls), and he
says the most he's had to break out was a rolled-up
newspaper, and even
then it's more for show. These dogs aren't just trained,
they're
responsive. While my own isn't as strictly obedient, she
knows not to
go into the kitchen, even when I'm not home, and if she
gets out, she
doesn't wander outside the yard. She never wanders out
into the street
or into anyone's car without permission from me.

I'm not saying all the other stuff is better or worse, as
I'm no dog
expert. I just wanted to offer an alternative to this
thread's
argument.

Chan Mainor
www.sacbreeds.com


The thing that you have to realize is that as a pitbull
owner (yes some don't think of staffies as pits, but let's
face it; they are) is that you have to be even more
responsible than the retriever or beagle owner next door.
The sad truth is that *if* your dog is involved in a
negative incident, it *could* result in anti-pit legislation
in your area. Your dog is still very young, and it's
behavior WILL change over the next year or so. A dog is a
dog, and it is irresponsible to assume that it will always
react to the same stimuli in the same way, or to assume that
it will always follow your commands. If you can not fence
your yard properly (and no, that does not include an
electric fence), then you should always have her on leash
when she goes out. Pitbulls were bred to be dog aggressive;
that is just a fact that one has to accept when one chooses
to raise a pit bull. Just because your dog has not shown
any signs of dog aggression, it does not mean she never
will. One day another neighborhood dog may approach her
aggressively. Do you think that your training will prevent
her from resorting to the instincts that hundreds of years
of breeding have given her? In any dog fight between a
pitbull and another breed, regardless of which dog was the
actual instigator, the pitbull WILL be blamed. Don't let
something bad happen to your dog, or other pitbulls in your
area, because you were over confident about what you think
you know about your dog's temperament.

Robin
http://community.webshots.com/user/robinandtami


 




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