If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
shock collars and prong collars
I know how we tend to humanize the emotions of our animals, but they think
as differently as our kids do. I love my dogs so much they even sleep in bed with my wife and myself and would never do anything to hurt them, so please at least hear me out. Children do resond to spankings, but humans are one of very few species that do, and dogs do not understand getting hit. If you want to talk the language of an animal, you must think like them not expect them to understand us. Watch a mother dog or alpha male correct a puppy or even another dog correct another dog. They spar and one goes down submissively while the winner bites at the throat. At first it worries us that this is aggression, but watch closely as it almost never is aggression and the dogs understand this. I had a friend who had 2 Rotts who were his children and he loved them greatly. What he did for a living was train dogs for police work around the country. He surprised me when he offered to show me how to use a prong collar on a dog we were training at that time. Now this particular dog we rescued from euthenasia from the pound. He had been severley abused and used in dog fighting and had a choke collar inbedded in his throat and needed many surgeries. His last owner spent quite awhile in jail for what he did. Now this dog had been triggered to kill cats and other small animals which was a problem. I thought, how can I use a prong on this poor thing. My friend asked me to trust him. I gave it a try. I have never seen anything work so well so quick. In our walks it was like installing power steering and in training the gentlest nudge gave just enough correction. My dog responded like his mom had just scolded him. The state has followed the dogs progress and neither they nor the vet can believe it's the same animal and the miraculous turnaround. Oh and as for our other pets, he no longer tries to eat them. I became a believer. I must caution though that you should be shown how to fit and use a prong collar and no children as they have a tendency to pull too hard. There is the oportunity for abuse with a prong collar, but it can also be the gentlest and most loving form of teaching to your dog. Now as far as shock collars. I am not a fan of them for training as they are a bit harsher than prongs. That said, I am in favor of the shock collar invisible fence. I know of very few people who don't live close to a road or traffic and this little device to keep the dog within its boundaries has saved an untold number of lives. My dogs eat $48 a bag food, run on our farm under our supervision, play with our 5 children and 6 grandchildren and never spend a night outside. They each get a kiss goodbye in the morning and hugs as they great us when we get home. They get the best vet care money can buy. My kids kid that we love the dogs more than them, so believe me that they would not see a prong collar if I thought it was abusive. The dogs will accept and understand this method better than anything else if done right and my babies will actually bring their prongs to me and get excited about going to work. You tell me if your dogs are excited about your training programs. Granted that I had high caliber trainer work with me so my results naturally were high, but don't debase a method just because it looks arcane and cruel. |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
On Sat, 11 Jun 2005 02:08:02 GMT Richard Palmer whittled these words:
Now as far as shock collars. I am not a fan of them for training as they are a bit harsher than prongs. Um - that suggests you do not have much experience with elecronic training collars. Effective use of an electronic training collar uses various levels, including levels so low they can be barely felt. They are precise and less subject to being increased accidentally purely due to emotion. I do not personally use an electronic training collar but I have felt one, observered its use and read a significant amount of information on the devices. I've seen them used very badly, and I've seen them used very well. Most pet owners should stay far away from the devices because their resort to them is generally from laziness, which means they won't take the time to learn what they need to know. -- Diane Blackman http://dog-play.com/ http://dogplay.com/Shop/ |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
Hilo Hairy wrote:
wrote in : Now as far as shock collars. I am not a fan of them for training as they are a bit harsher than prongs. Um - that suggests you do not have much experience with elecronic training collars. Effective use of an electronic training collar uses various levels, including levels so low they can be barely felt. They are precise and less subject to being increased accidentally purely due to emotion. I do not personally use an electronic training collar but I have felt one, observered its use and read a significant amount of information on the devices. I've seen them used very badly, and I've seen them used very well. Most pet owners should stay far away from the devices because their resort to them is generally from laziness, which means they won't take the time to learn what they need to know. Our flat half acre with slopes at the edges and views from most sides doesn't allow for fences. We use an invisible fence shock collar instead. Took Bo Peep 2- twenty minute sessions to get it. In the year since she only once left the property, led off by a stray. She came back with much contrition in her eyes. Every morning she waits before leaving our bedroom for us to put the electric collar on her neck. Estheticly, I'd rather be without it but it may have saved her life. http://www.dogster.com/?150615 What do you people do about this guy who rants in mostly capital letters? Reading him makes me feel like there's a angry / crazy person in my brain. Does his name stay still so that you can plonk him? Everyone usually just puts him in the killfile. He changes his name and email every so often so you have to killfile him again. I think I have about 6 or 7 different addresses for him in mine, but it is well worth the time it takes to killfile so I don't have to read his garbage. |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
in thread . 97.131: Hilo
Hairy whittled the following words: What do you people do about this guy who rants in mostly capital letters? Reading him makes me feel like there's a angry / crazy person in my brain. Does his name stay still so that you can plonk him? He tends to cross post to many groups. The easiest way to save a lot of grief and eliminate a LOT of chaff (including him) is to kill anything with crossposted characteristics in your newsreader. Or perhaps kill limiting cross posts to just 2-3 groups. |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
I'm new to this ng, and originally here to find a few contributors for
my new site, but I had to weigh-in on this topic for a minute. I have a 15-month-old red-nose AmStaff, who is fiesty, playful, and very curious. Before her first heat, she was definitely a handful, especially for a first-time owner. If it hadn't been for a neighbor who bred blue-nose pits, I might not have been able to keep Brandy for long. From potty-training to boundaries, from stealing food to destroying furniture, I've never had to use anything more than a stern voice and a slap on the ass. Louis (my neighbor) said that consistancy is the key. I originally went out and spent a pretty good chunk of change on an electric collar and the invisible fence kit, and when I went over to his house to ask him how to use it, he simply asked "Do you still have the receipt?" I have to take credence from a guy who has three rather large pits (one male, two female) who own the house without destroying it (they're still outside dogs, but the living room is their second home) and get along very well with his two-year-old daughter. His dogs are amazing (not what I had imagined when thinking pitbulls), and he says the most he's had to break out was a rolled-up newspaper, and even then it's more for show. These dogs aren't just trained, they're responsive. While my own isn't as strictly obedient, she knows not to go into the kitchen, even when I'm not home, and if she gets out, she doesn't wander outside the yard. She never wanders out into the street or into anyone's car without permission from me. I'm not saying all the other stuff is better or worse, as I'm no dog expert. I just wanted to offer an alternative to this thread's argument. Chan Mainor www.sacbreeds.com |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
"Chanzilla" wrote in message ... I'm new to this ng, and originally here to find a few contributors for my new site, but I had to weigh-in on this topic for a minute. I have a 15-month-old red-nose AmStaff, who is fiesty, playful, and very curious. Before her first heat, she was definitely a handful, especially for a first-time owner. If it hadn't been for a neighbor who bred blue-nose pits, I might not have been able to keep Brandy for long. From potty-training to boundaries, from stealing food to destroying furniture, I've never had to use anything more than a stern voice and a slap on the ass. Louis (my neighbor) said that consistancy is the key. I originally went out and spent a pretty good chunk of change on an electric collar and the invisible fence kit, and when I went over to his house to ask him how to use it, he simply asked "Do you still have the receipt?" I have to take credence from a guy who has three rather large pits (one male, two female) who own the house without destroying it (they're still outside dogs, but the living room is their second home) and get along very well with his two-year-old daughter. His dogs are amazing (not what I had imagined when thinking pitbulls), and he says the most he's had to break out was a rolled-up newspaper, and even then it's more for show. These dogs aren't just trained, they're responsive. While my own isn't as strictly obedient, she knows not to go into the kitchen, even when I'm not home, and if she gets out, she doesn't wander outside the yard. She never wanders out into the street or into anyone's car without permission from me. I'm not saying all the other stuff is better or worse, as I'm no dog expert. I just wanted to offer an alternative to this thread's argument. Chan Mainor www.sacbreeds.com The thing that you have to realize is that as a pitbull owner (yes some don't think of staffies as pits, but let's face it; they are) is that you have to be even more responsible than the retriever or beagle owner next door. The sad truth is that *if* your dog is involved in a negative incident, it *could* result in anti-pit legislation in your area. Your dog is still very young, and it's behavior WILL change over the next year or so. A dog is a dog, and it is irresponsible to assume that it will always react to the same stimuli in the same way, or to assume that it will always follow your commands. If you can not fence your yard properly (and no, that does not include an electric fence), then you should always have her on leash when she goes out. Pitbulls were bred to be dog aggressive; that is just a fact that one has to accept when one chooses to raise a pit bull. Just because your dog has not shown any signs of dog aggression, it does not mean she never will. One day another neighborhood dog may approach her aggressively. Do you think that your training will prevent her from resorting to the instincts that hundreds of years of breeding have given her? In any dog fight between a pitbull and another breed, regardless of which dog was the actual instigator, the pitbull WILL be blamed. Don't let something bad happen to your dog, or other pitbulls in your area, because you were over confident about what you think you know about your dog's temperament. Robin http://community.webshots.com/user/robinandtami |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
dog depression | [email protected] | Dog behavior | 6 | March 1st 05 10:17 AM |
Prong collars ? | Christopher | Dog behavior | 68 | March 11th 04 10:48 AM |
Prong collars ? | Christopher | Dog behavior | 0 | March 10th 04 08:29 PM |
Prong collars ? | Christopher | Dog behavior | 0 | March 10th 04 08:29 PM |
Prong collars ? | Christopher | Dog behavior | 0 | March 10th 04 08:29 PM |