Ok gang, just for the record, my wife and I are getting 2 puppies in 3
weeks (8 week old lab and corgi). I am sincerely trying to learn all I
can to make these dogs have a great life. I will be fencing in the
back yard and giving them the porch to sleep on during the day while we
are both at work. We will be taking about a week or so off to help
settle the pups in but after that they will have 8 hours a day in the
screened in porch with a doggie door to the back yard. When we get
home we will play with them for hours and bring them in the house for
night time and sleep. The crates seem to be the way so I'll get 2
crates.

I'm sorry about appearing troll like during my insults to the puppy
wizard but that guy pissed me off. I'm over it and will NEVER reply to
anything he posts again, hopefully erasing my troll status.

I sincerely appreciate any and all tips.

My question is: If the puppies are running around in the fenced in
back yard during the day do I have to worry about big birds or racoons
dragging them off and killing them? I really don't want to confine
them to the porch till they get big enough to protect themselves.

Thanks again and wish me luck. I am trying my best.

Thanks

John

On 12 Jun 2005 14:07:26 -0700, wrote:

Thanks again and wish me luck.

you're going to need it. a *lot* of it.

I am trying my best.

no, really, you're not.

yes, your puppies will be at danger of being preyed upon by other
animals. but don't worry, i'm sure there are plenty more puppies where
yours came from.

--
shelly
http://home.bluemarble.net/~scouvrette || http://cat-sidh.blogspot.com

Don't spill my bones my precious stones once belonged to a girl
too gullible to ever be taken for serious mettle
-- Susan McKeown, Bones

why such a bitter tone ? Does everyone have to do everything on your
terms for a civil conversation?

On 12 Jun 2005 14:37:41 -0700, wrote:

why such a bitter tone ?

you have to ask? what you're planning to do is incredibly irresponsible
and apt to end in the deaths of two puppies who deserve much better from
life.

Does everyone have to do everything on your
terms for a civil conversation?

i'm sorry, was i uncivil?

--
shelly
http://home.bluemarble.net/~scouvrette || http://cat-sidh.blogspot.com

I'm not afraid of storms, for I'm learning to sail my ship.
-- Louisa May Alcott

ok, so i'll just shoot the dogs when i buy them and get it over with
since you're advice is so dire. thanks for the great tips !

On 12 Jun 2005 14:07:26 -0700 whittled these words:

My question is: If the puppies are running around in the fenced in
back yard during the day do I have to worry about big birds or racoons
dragging them off and killing them? I really don't want to confine
them to the porch till they get big enough to protect themselves.

It has been known to happen. Hawks and owls are a risk to small
dogs/puppies. Raccoons less so from preying on them than from just
tearing them up because they are in the way. Raccoons can and do kill
dogs, especially young/small ones.

During the day I'd be more concerned about the more common risks, theft
and either accidental or intentional aggravation. The book "The Body
Language and Emotions of Dogs" by M. Milani DVM sounds all touchy feely,
but it isn't. It is a slap of reality.

Dr. Milani discusses outdoor dogs at length. Dogs that are subject to
stimulation by activity where they can see/hear it but cannot investigate
or get comfortable with it often become easily agitated. This is the most
common reason why fenced dogs that esacpe their fencing bite. The most
effective way to create an aggressive dog is to restrict it, then
stimulate its defense drive. Avoiding the problem means setting up the
area so that the dogs are not in a position to be simulated by activity
outside the property line.

The other risk depends upon how good your fencing is. That is wildlife
and dogs coming in and killing the puppies. If the fencing is under six
feet in height and is not dig proofed then there is that risk. Coyotes
are increasingly common in urban areas (I mean cities, not just suburbs).
In my area creeks and greenbelts provide pathways for Bobcat which are
also a risk to outdoor pets.

I recommend getting the book because then you can consider your options
most fully. Dr. Milani never says "don't" do something. Instead the risks
are laid out and the reason they are risks are explained. The decision
about what to do about them is left up to the reader's heart and ethics.

--
Diane Blackman
http://dog-play.com/
http://dogplay.com/Shop/

On 12 Jun 2005 15:32:56 -0700, wrote:

ok, so i'll just shoot the dogs when i buy them and get it over with
since you're advice is so dire. thanks for the great tips !

oh, you wanted advice? okaythen. don't get a dog, much less two. HTH
HAND God Bless WTF?!?!11!!

i mean, really, we've been over this before. outside all day,
unsupervised is not where dogs belong, and that goes double for puppies.
did you think you were going to get a different answer this time around?

--
shelly
http://home.bluemarble.net/~scouvrette || http://cat-sidh.blogspot.com

Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?
-- A.A. Milne

Well it looks like the puppies will have to live on the screened in
porch during the day until they are big enough to fend for themselves
in the yard. bummer.

It is truly too bad we have to work for a living. There is nothing I
would rather do than stay home and pamper the puppies (as i imagine
some of you have the luxury of doing), but if their life will be at
risk then I'll just raise them on the porch for the next 5 months.

Thanks

On 12 Jun 2005 15:57:32 -0700, wrote:

Well it looks like the puppies will have to live on the screened in
porch during the day until they are big enough to fend for themselves
in the yard. bummer.

you say that like it's a bad thing. the screened porch is better than
loose outside, but not as good--or as safe--as indoors. but at least
we're moving in the right direction!

It is truly too bad we have to work for a living. There is nothing I
would rather do than stay home and pamper the puppies (as i imagine
some of you have the luxury of doing), but if their life will be at
risk then I'll just raise them on the porch for the next 5 months.

don't be ridiculous. there is no reason the puppies cannot stay inside,
crated or in a puppy proofed area, while you are not at home. if you
truly cannot keep them indoors, where they will be safe from harm, you
have no business getting puppies. but you knew that, because we've
already had this discussion.

--
shelly
http://home.bluemarble.net/~scouvrette || http://cat-sidh.blogspot.com

I try to apply colors like words that shape poems, like notes that shape
music.
-- Joan Miro

"shelly" wrote in message
...
On 12 Jun 2005 15:57:32 -0700, wrote:

Well it looks like the puppies will have to live on the screened in
porch during the day until they are big enough to fend for themselves
in the yard. bummer.

you say that like it's a bad thing. the screened porch is better than
loose outside, but not as good--or as safe--as indoors. but at least
we're moving in the right direction!

It is truly too bad we have to work for a living. There is nothing I
would rather do than stay home and pamper the puppies (as i imagine
some of you have the luxury of doing), but if their life will be at
risk then I'll just raise them on the porch for the next 5 months.

don't be ridiculous. there is no reason the puppies cannot stay inside,
crated or in a puppy proofed area, while you are not at home. if you
truly cannot keep them indoors, where they will be safe from harm, you
have no business getting puppies. but you knew that, because we've
already had this discussion.

In one sentence...

Keep puppies in a safe area (gated/big area) of an air conditioned house and
have a pet sitter come over twice daily until they are properly house
trained.

On side note...

U/we worked full time down town, and I couldn't come home for lunch. It
worked just fine, and puppy (Basset) was trained w/in 2 months. `Had 3 cats
for company at the time too.

--

·.·´¨ ¨)) -:¦:-
¸.·´ .·´¨¨))
Laurie
((¸¸.·´ ..·´
-:¦:- ((¸¸ ·.·

*~*LiveLoveLaugh*~* Aloha!!!!!

"There is no remedy for love but to love more"...
~~Henry David Thoreau



--
shelly
http://home.bluemarble.net/~scouvrette || http://cat-sidh.blogspot.com

I try to apply colors like words that shape poems, like notes that shape
music.
-- Joan Miro