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Dog Chews Everything



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 19th 05, 10:59 PM
DaveR
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Default Dog Chews Everything

We adopted a puppy about 5 months old. The first week she was very
docile but now that she is comfortable in her new surroundings she is
getting difficult.

If we leave her unsupervised at all she will seek out anything and
everything she can put in her mouth and chew it.

When we supervise her we are sure to dissuade her from doing this,
give her a chew toy, and praise her for taking interest in it.

But once we leave her alone, she ignores her chew toys and goes after
anything else she can grab.

I understand puppies do this, but it's gotten to the point where it is
out of control. We have to crate her whenever we cannot supervise her,
and I'm afraid spending hours at a time in the crate will start to
feel like punishment, and she'll soon want to avoid being in the
crate. (So far she has taken very well to the crate and seems to enjoy
being there.)

Any advice would be appreciated.
  #2  
Old July 20th 05, 12:27 AM
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Default

On Tue, 19 Jul 2005 17:59:48 -0400 DaveR whittled these words:
We adopted a puppy about 5 months old. The first week she was very
docile but now that she is comfortable in her new surroundings she is
getting difficult.


If we leave her unsupervised at all she will seek out anything and
everything she can put in her mouth and chew it.


When we supervise her we are sure to dissuade her from doing this,
give her a chew toy, and praise her for taking interest in it.


But once we leave her alone, she ignores her chew toys and goes after
anything else she can grab.


Then don't do that. It will take time for her to grow mentally mature
enough for her to exercise more self control on her own. She is no more
ready to be left unattended than a 3 year old chold would be.

I understand puppies do this, but it's gotten to the point where it is
out of control. We have to crate her whenever we cannot supervise her,


Correct

and I'm afraid spending hours at a time in the crate will start to
feel like punishment, and she'll soon want to avoid being in the
crate. (So far she has taken very well to the crate and seems to enjoy
being there.)


Work mostly toward being more vailable to her. If you are going to be
absent for long periods have someone come in, take her out and play with
her. It is a good job for a teen or college student looking for a study
break. Often there are people who would love to spend time with a dog that
they don't have to take care of full time.

Any advice would be appreciated.


There just aren't any shortcuts to the teaching and maturity process. The
most important thing you can do is what you are doing. And that is combine
as much supervised time as possible so she can learn what you want, and
prevent the behavior from being ABLE to happen when you aren't present.
When you no longer need to distract and redirect here when you are present
then start gradually extending her freedom. For short periods or short
distances. And provide a more or less dog proofed room where there is
little to entice her to help her learn to deal with more freedom.

--
Diane Blackman
http://dog-play.com/
http://dogplay.com/Shop/dogplayshop.htm
  #4  
Old July 20th 05, 05:26 PM
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Default

On Wed, 20 Jul 2005 09:54:26 -0400 DaveR whittled these words:
I work from home so I can be with her a lot. I do not bring her to my
office because I assumed that it was important to teach puppies limits
of where they are allowed to go. But I guess it is a better idea to
let her come down here so she can be with me. The only problem is, I
will not have time to correct all her bad behavior because I really do
need to focus on my work.


Work disruption is short term cost for long term gain. In the end if you
pay the upfront cost you will have a dog who will quietly amuse herself
and not disrupt your work at all. You have an awsome opportunity here.
The situation can lead to a very confident dog. When the dog knows it can
count on you, anxiety is reduced and it is better able to handle new
situations.

While she does need to learn to be by herself I'd work on that second
place to the other issues, just because you can. My dog Tsuki was able
to come to work with me daily. I feel it was nothing but a benefit.
Because he was literally at my feet all day he got lots of practice at me
redirecting him. The learning period was much shorter than for many other
dogs because he had so little opportunity to finish a mistake.

I had a crate in the office. If I needed to go to a meeting, or even to
the rest room (at first), in the crate he'd go. I also didn't want
crate=alone, so sometimes I put him there when I was there, let him out,
put him in etc. Then I'd leave him free for short trips away. By then he
was so used to office routine he'd just sleep.

--
Diane Blackman
http://dog-play.com/
http://dogplay.com/Shop/dogplayshop.htm
  #6  
Old July 27th 05, 08:57 PM
CB
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Posts: n/a
Default

What you are doing so far is great. If you make the going into the
crate a "positive" thing by using a positive fun voice with lots of
praise and lots of "good girls!!" it won't be a punishment thing for
her. Dogs like having a special space and for that reason your puppy
likes it in her crate. As she gets older and grows out of chewing you
can still use the crate (maybe a bigger one) without the door unless
you are in a situation where she needs to be confined. Dogs pick up on
our emotions and attitudes. If you have a good attitude about the
crate so will she. What you are doing is good. Alot of mistakes
people make is allowing negative behavior to continue thereby
establishing bad habits at a very critical age/stage in their
puppyhood. She will grow out of chewing eventually. Just continue
what you are doing with lots of patience and love. If she is crated
while you both are at work, be sure you can come home or have someone
let her out periodically during the day to strectch her legs and do her
business. Long extended hours in a crate is not good for her bones and
she needs to be able to relieve herself.
Good Work.
CB

  #8  
Old July 31st 05, 09:48 PM
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Default

HOWEDY Just me,

Just me wrote:
"YourConscience" om wrote
in message oups.com...

LIKE THAT. You ADMIT you don't know
HOWE to train a dog not to attack kats.


No, I do not know.


THAT'S on accHOWENT of the EXXXPERTS DON'T KNOW HOWE.

Polar dogs has got their hunting instinct deep rooted


A dog is a dog. Dogs DO what they're TRAINED TO DO.

and I thought they couldn't be trained
not to attack cats or sheep.


NOT BY THE EXXXPERTS WHO TELL US THE DOG DONE IT.

Not even with electricity.


THAT'S HOWE COME THEY CAN'T TRAIN DOGS NOT TO MURDER
INNOCENT CRITTERS {); ~ )

HOWEDY Lucy,

wrote:
I asked:

Anyone knows of any trainer (before
Jerry) who had been using praise for
stopping bad behavior?


Lynn replied:

Absolutely. It's done all the time, by almost everyone.


ALL EXXXCEPT when the dog is doin BAD BEHAVIORS, Lucy.
Then they PREVENT and give ALTERNATE INCOMPATIBLE behaviors
and REWARDS which INCREASE ANXXXIHOWESNESS INCREASE DESIRE
and TEACH FEAR GREED and MISTRUST and TEACH the dog to DO
the BAD BEHAVIOR when the CON-TROLLER AIN'T IN CON-TROLL.

THAT'S HOWE COME dogs GET separation anXXXIHOWESNESS.

Me:

Then it must be really easy to provide a source
on the Internet. Should I hold my breath?


Lynn:

If you like. I have no intention of spoonfeeding you
information because you've set yourself up as the "Yes,
but why?" girl.


RIGHT. All you gotta do is LOOK UP her own POSTED CASE
HISTORY and her own SELECTIVELY BRED HAND PICKED and
TESTED SAR dog JIVE {); ~ )

Yes, I know it's annoying, but to a simple straightforward
question I expect a simple straightforward answer, if you
can and are willing to reply.


Ooops! You know news group servers and email are
SUCH an inprecise science... like dog trainin {); ~ )

PERHAPS THAT's HOWE COME Robert Crim feels there's
NO NEED for him to reply to these pathological mental
cases, eh Lucy?

You don't need to "spoonfeed" me anything: just a reference
that would support your claim that other trainers are using
Jerry's method of praising bad behavior in order to end it.


THERE AIN'T NONE.

It must be easy, since they/you are "doing it all the time".


THERE AIN'T NONE.

Just a cite (or a site) detailing exactly HOW it is been done.


THERE AIN'T NONE.

There's no need for you to correct me or explain anything
to me - just provide the author's own words, so that we all
can compare with what Jerry writes in his manual. Is this so
difficult?


Yeah, it's IMPOSSIBLE on accHOWENT of THERE AIN'T NONE.

Most of your problems in communicating here are based
in your lack of understanding terminology and basic concepts.


THERE AIN'T NO TERMINOLOGY PROBLEM. The ONLY PROBLEM is
HOWER DOG LOVER'S FUNDAMENTAL NEED and DESIRE and PREFERENCE
TO HURT INTIMDIDATE and MURDER INNOCENT DUMB CRITTERS.

Terminology shouldn't get in the way;


It DON'T. It's a SMOKE SCREEN.

if particle physics can be explained in plain English,
you certainly could do the same about dog training.


LIKE THIS?:

Instrumental / Classical / Operant / Conditioning
CC / OC / IC / -P +P / +R -R / S R / R S
It's ALL The SAME SAME SAME SAME
{); ~ )

HOWEDY People,

Since The Amazing Puppy Wizard ALWAYS gets CONfHOWENDED
tryin to suss the psychobabble in behavioral terminology
HE asked Dr. Von if he could remember what he was taught
in school fifty years ago:

"...all the highest nervous activity, as it manifests
tself in the conditional reflex, consists of a continual
change of these three fundamental processes -- excitation,
inhibition and disinhibition." Ivan P. Pavlov

What's important is, "does Shamu reliably
eat the fish and not the pretty girl?"

George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.

From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D."
Subject: The Amazing Jerry's take on psychobabble
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 12:13:44 -0400

You might improve the learning of folk who actually
live with and train dogs to do useful things if you
excluded everyone who uses psychobabble from your lists.

I recommend to all of you who wish to taste the flavor
of sensible animal behaviorists to read THE MISBEHAVIOR
OF ORGANISMS, Breland and Breland.

This married pair of psychologists began the long trail
of highly trained animals who are symbolized by Shamu
eating a mackrel from a girl's hand instead of eating
the much more tasty pretty girl who is exactly the size
of the natural food of killer whales, seals. Yum!

The essay, by the way, is a chapter in B.F. Skinner's
summing up book, CUMULATIVE RECORD. They include a
sentence which more or less says, "unless you understand
the personal history of the particular animal, and the
history of this animal's species and group, the developmental
history of the animal, you cannot effectively train the animal.

Pigs root and hen's scratch, if you try to train hens without
scratching or pigs without scratching or pigeons without pecking,
you aren't going to have much success.

A conditional reflex is one which is learned, the original
primitive reflex occurs no matter what the history of the
animal, and is hard wired. If you train the animal to respond,
say by ringing a bell immediately before turning on a bright
light, then you've taught the animal and made his native reflex
of pupil constriction conditional upon the ringing of a bell.

Thorndyke added some terminology to this kind of training
and insisted that when you train the animal to make gross
motor responses that this learning is "instrumental", the
animal takes action and uses an instrument.

The Russian word translated as "conditional" in all other
contexts was mistranslated by Pavlov's American translator,
Horsley Gannt, as "conditioned" and so American psychology
went haring after phantasmagora.

The major theorists for the development of the language of
operant conditioning are Edward Thorndike, John Watson, and
B. F. Skinner. Their approach to behaviorism played a major
role in the development of American psychology.

They proposed that learning is the result of the application
of consequences; that is, learners begin to connect certain
responses with certain stimuli. This connection causes the
probability of the response to change (i.e., learning occurs.)

Thorndike labeled this type of learning instrumental. Using
consequences, he taught kittens to manipulate a latch (e.g.,
an instrument). Skinner renamed instrumental as "operant"
because in this learning, one is "operating" on, and is
influenced by, the environment. Where classical conditioning
illustrates S--R learning, operant conditioning is often
viewed as R--S learning since it is the consequence that
follows the response that influences whether the response
is likely or unlikely to occur again.

It is through operant conditioning that
voluntary responses are learned.

One should note that Russian Psychology did very well
without the operant language, and only pettifogging
university professors ought to worry about what kind
of label we attach to the learning. Pfui!

Even Skinner understood this!

And please note if you saw the original movie, THE
MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE, you saw a Chinese psychologist
who was based on Andrew Salter, CONDITIONED REFLEX
THERAPY.

Alas, Salter didn't have a Ph.D., but he basically rescued
us from the long Freudian nightmare and returned psychotherapy
to a scientific basis. Alas, the 2nd movie didn't even cite
Salter as a source. "...all the highest nervous activity, as
it manifests itself in the conditional reflex, consists of a
continual change of these three fundamental processes --
excitation, inhibition and disinhibition." Ivan P. Pavlov

George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.

What's important is, "does Shamu reliably eat
the fish and not the pretty girl?"

George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.

Only you can fix that by putting forth more effort
than you have to date. That's why I won't feed you
sites, only search criteria suggestions.


It seems to me that what you do, not very successfully,
is trying to avoid giving the direct answer to my question:
who has been using Jerry's method before Jerry?


THERE AIN'T NO WON.

The CLOSEST was Dr. Dare Miller, Bill Campbell's Guru.
Dr. Miller teaches brief variable alternating distraction
instantly followed by prolonged non physical praise but
he does NOT teach and rely on PRAISE IN AVANCE and PROLONGED
NON PHYSICAL PRAISE and MOORE PRAISE IN ADVANCE as the CURE
for ALL temprament and behavior problems {); ~ )

Here, you have just to fill in the blanks:

Author:_________________________

Book/Journal:___________________

Edition/year/volume/page:______________/__________/___________/___________

Author's own words detailing how the method is applied:

________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _____________________

Alternatively, you can provide the URL of a site containing the
relevant information:

http://_____________________________... _____________

Author:________________________________

Author's words detailing how the method is applied:

________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ______________________


(I also had my children look up words in the
dictionary rather than just tell them meanings.)


Yeah, but if the child asks, "Mom, where's my pink dress?"
you CAN direct her to the exact spot where the dress is,
and not send her first to learn how to make a dress, can't
you?


NOT IN KEEPIN WITH HER LEARNING THEORY, and THAT INCONSISTENCY
is HOWE COME HER LEARNING FAILS TO TEACH TRUST, UNCONDITIONAL
LOVE and RESPECT {); ~ )

What do you think people are doing when they
talk about desensitizing?

PRAISING the BAD behavior? Allow me to doubt it.


You're wrong. That's exactly what they are doing -


Then HOWE COME she's still chokin shockin and MURDERIN dogs?

because the dog's behavior doesn't matter at
all in Classical Conditioning.


So you can PRAISE BAD BEHAVIORS?

CC changes the way the dog feels about something
by adding a pleasant association (praise).


But dogs PREFER being jerked and choked on pronged
spiked pinch choke collars and shocked bribed and
murdered?

You praise whatever the dog is doing,


Like ATTACKING HIS HANDLER?

because you're not praising the behavior itself.


RIGHT. You're TRYING to CHANGE HIS STATE OF MIND
to FRIENLY LOVING TRUSTIN behavior... so you SHOCK
IT to MAKE SHORE IT UNDERSTANDS the ALTERNATIVES
to UNCONDITIONAL LOVE?

That change in association then changes the dog's behavior.


So HOWER DOG LOVERS ALWAYS RESORT TO PRAISE
when their dogs DO BAD BEHAVIORS like pull
on leash... and ATTACK INNOCENT CRITTERS.

OC is different because the dog's response does
matter. OC changes behavior by reinforcing or
punishing it.


HOWE COME would you PUNISH a dog when PRAISING
CHANGES THE BAD BEHAVIOR TO GOOD ASSOCIATIONS?

One of the big reasons people are having such a
hard time talking to you is that you persist in
talking about Jerry's CC method in OC terms.


You mean NOT HURTIN DOGS, lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn?

It simply doesn't work the way you describe it


Does it WORK like HOWE she just described it HERSELF, Lucy?

and that's why you get argument.


Seems the PROBLEM is OC, not CC or HOWE Jerry's METHOD
EXXXPLAINS IT, isn't that correct, Lucy?

In fact, I suspect that you have a some kind of
misunderstanding of what's going on with CC.


Could be CHANGING THE MOOD is all you GOT to UNDERSTAND
abHOWET rehabilitating FEAR BEHAVIORS like separation
anXXXIHOWESNESS or fear of thunder or aggression.

Could be. In my younger days, CC was ringing a bell
while giving the dog food; as a result, the dog was
associating the ringing bell with the imminence of
feeding and would salivate when hearing the bell,
even if no food was provided. An innate behavior was
produced at will by its association with the conditional
stimulus: the bell.


Kinda like Mesmer, the HYPNOTIST.

But, you know what? Why complicate the things? Here's
a behavior of the dog that I wanted to change, tell me
what you'd have done in this case and I'll tell what I
did, according to Jerry's method. That will show us in
clear unequivocal way if we'd do the same thing or not.

Is this OK with you?


PROBABLY NOT.. "EVERY DOG IS DIFFERENT", REMEMBER, Lucy?

Here is the dog's behavior:

He stands right in the middle of the sofa and is frantically
digging with his front paws into the sofa. He is about to make
a hole in the upholstery and down all the way to China, so he
has to be stopped quickly. What do you do?


TIME FOR A COOKIE!

Thank you for taking the trouble to reply.


Hmmm, NOT LIKELY, Lucy.

Lucy


Mon, Jul 26 2004 1:25 pm
Subject: "Learning Theory"-An Insult to Canines

What you fail to understand is the concept of self generated,
self motivated behavior as opposed to reflex like behavior that
is simply a response to a stimulus.

It is double talk to refer to self generated behavior as a
response to internally generated stimuli. Thinking is not a
response to any stimuli. It takes effort to think. It takes
will power. It is a self generated, conscious process that
operates independently of any reinforcement.

Thinking is initiated by the will of the thinker,
without stimulus-it is self generated.

B.F. Skinner behaviorism applied to thinking animals is
a grotesque fraud.

Its propagation as a model for learning has inflicted untold
damage upon thinking animals-especially humans. It does not
surprise me that those who endorse it do not consider themselves
more evolutionarily advanced than newts, because according to
"learning theory", learning is no different for a newt than it
is for a human.

But for thinking animals, the rules of "learning theory"
are not their primary mechanism for learning-their primary
mechanism is a thinking process and a thinking process is
not a response to any stimuli or reinforcement-it is self
generated.

I cannot imagine how any enlightened mind can believe that
their knowledge was randomly gained from external/internal
stimuli. Anyone who has taken the effort to observe or to
study the thinking skills of canines could never believe
that their behavior results from random external/internal
stimuli.

Have you never heard of the ingenious feats of thinking that
dogs have performed to save their owner's lives? The renowned
canine psychologist, Dr Dare Miller, personally revealed to me
the events of two separate occasions when his dog exhibited
profound thinking skills to figure out a way to save his life;

once when he was trapped under the ice in a lake and another
when he was buried in an avalanche.

My statements on the use of praise have either been
misunderstood or else they have been twisted to suit
the detractor's intent.

The Puppy Wizard's Wits' End Training Method uses praise
extensively-it is integral to the method. But the method
is designed for thinking animals not B.F. Skinner robots
who's only learning mechanism would be through pain or
bribe.

Thus, as I originally stated, praise is not used as reinforcement
because the entire concept of "learning theory" is rejected as an
applicable model for thinking animals.

--Larry



From: "Sionnach"
Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 21:20:53 -0400

Subject: "Learning Theory"-An Insult to Canines

"michael 2.4 beta" wrote:
She tried to tear down Dare Miller (who I
know nothing about actually) by belittling
his life, talents, age, and the validity of
his accomplishments and relevance.


You're either seriously lacking in reading comprehension,
or you're imagining things, Mike. I made absolutely *no*
comment about Miller's life, talents, age, or accomplishments.

The point I was making that TooLame is off base in trying to
put down others for not having heard of Miller by going on about
all the TV shows he's been on when said TV appearances were
apparently 25 years ago or more.


From: "michael 2.41 beta"
Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2004 22:27:38 -0400

Subject: "Learning Theory"-An Insult to Canines

Sionnach wrote:
"michael 2.4 beta" wrote:


She tried to tear down Dare Miller (who I
know nothing about actually) by belittling
his life, talents, age, and the validity of
his accomplishments and relevance.


You're either seriously lacking in reading comprehension,
or you're imagining things, Mike. I made absolutely *no*
comment about Miller's life, talents, age, or accomplishments.


You were trying to made Dare Miller irrelevant, in
order to make Larry "TooCool" irrelevant. That's
how you operate. You are our resident attack
chihuahua and you've been doing it for years.

As soon as Larry brought up Dr. Dare Miller,
you went to work to discredit Larry, via way
of discrediting Dare Miller by stressing how
old and out of date he and his accomplishments
etc...were, thereby how outdated andinsignificant
he must be, while at the same time knowing absolutely
nothing about him.

You did it simply via chronology, aka age by implication.

And the ONLY reason you did it was to make him
irrelevant, so you could make Larry irrlevant.

You have tried the same with me by complaining that
some of my videos are a even just a few years old,
and trying to use that to somehow discredit them
and make them irrelevant. You have also tried to
discredit my videos by via the format they are
produced in.

such as .wmv

BWHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAA!!!!
as if that was some sort of insult.

and no, I don't use Windows Movie Maker
BWHAHHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!

and even if I did, it would be no grounds to
discredit my videos.

This .wmv is dedicated to you.
If you want to discredit it, please focus
on the content. Thank you.

http://dogtv.com/sionnach.wmv

PS,
I'm not an expert on the "fallacies" but you are
certainly an expert at exploiting them to tarnish,
discredit and ankle bite to try to bring people
down to your level.

I hope that heelps you today

this is michael
reporting live...
http://dogtv.com

 




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