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#1
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FYI
On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 07:38:17 -0400, Handsome Jack Morrison
, clicked their heels and said: The Dogs of Track and Field http://slate.msn.com/id/2124888/?GT1=6900 My dogs' athleticism is to make up for the lack of MY athleticism! Which is why agility just isn't my sport (well, there are many reasons for that. We play, but competing probably isn't something that is going to happen much). While I don't exactly just stand there for flyball, it's a bit less demanding than agility, at least for the humans involved. Franklin would prefer all activity involved ducks and water though (land series - ok, but boring.......), but tennis balls can make an adequate alternate activity. THAT'S what's wrong with agility - no retrieving! -- Janet B www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfr...bedience/album |
#2
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Interesting article, but WAAAAY off base in quite a few places.
1. It claims you can't do agility if you don't start in baby puppyhood. Utter horse hockey, as witness the fact that Brenin and Morag - both shelter adoptees acquired in late adolescence - have championships. And Brenin, who started agility training at age 2, was successful from the beginning of competiton, which he started 6 months after the start of training. 2. A high pain tolerance is *not* necessary for a dog to be successful in agility (again, witness the fact that Ms. Princess-and-the-Pea Morag has a championship). 3. There is no necessity for a dog to heel on an agility course, nor even at an agility compeition, and in fact asking that type of attention from your dog on-course is counterproductive. Novice competitors, especially in AKC where the times are most generous, may succeed while keeping their dog that slow and handler-focused, but it will cause you to fail at higher levels. 4. I laughed out loud at the passage about dogs needing 6 to 12 months to learn how to jump properly. |
#3
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Oh yes - and nowhere in the article do they manage to mention that:
1. The USDAA is only one of a number of agility organizations and 2. except for AKC and JRTCA, dogs do *not* need to be purebred and/or pedigreed. The uninformed, reading the article, would come away with that impression (e.g. that you need a "purebred") IMO. Very poorly researched article IMO, based on superficial interviews. It doesn't sound to me like the writer even bothered to go and watch any competitions. :-P |
#4
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"cimawr" wrote in message
oups.com... Very poorly researched article IMO, based on superficial interviews. It doesn't sound to me like the writer even bothered to go and watch any competitions. :-P And then there's the part about how you should spend an hour a day building a bond and teamwork with your dog and THEN SEND HIM AWAY to a professional trainer? Most trainers I know are very specific that they are training YOU, not your dog. The schnauzer groups I read were all pleased by the article that miniature schnauzers were getting recognition as an agility breed. But the rest of the article didn't represent agility as I see it - or have been living it. -- Judy Spenser - Carbor Talk of the Town, OA, OAJ, NJC, NGC Sassy - Can CH Carbor Back Talk, NA, NAJ |
#5
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And then there's the part about how you should spend an hour a day building
a bond and teamwork with your dog and THEN SEND HIM AWAY to a professional trainer? Cripes, I missed that one! I just went back and re-read, and sure enough it does specify "sending away" - which I have *never* heard of anyone doing, and certainly would be atypical. I have a suspicion, though, that it may be a misinterpetation on the part of the writer; esp. since he goes on to talk about "private lessons", which to my reading (especially since I've never heard of Stuart Mah training dogs sans owners) means "private training session for owner and dog team". Which is yet another indication of the writer's crappy research/interview skills. |
#6
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cimawr wrote:
Interesting article, but WAAAAY off base in quite a few places. 4. I laughed out loud at the passage about dogs needing 6 to 12 months to learn how to jump properly. I agree mostly, but yeah, I'd have to say that in almost all cases it does take awhile, sometimes months, sometimes years, for a dog to truly learn how to jump properly. By that I don't mean the ability to look at a bar between two standards and know you're supposed to heave the old bod over it--but to learn how to be a power jumper--how to collect, how to extend, how to slice, when and how to throw in a half stride or leave it out, etc. all while not dropping the bar. It took Viva almost 2 years to really learn how to jump--to the point where she was an efficient jumper who I could trust to either extend or collect, to the point where I could have her slice a triple sideways while I did a rear cross (not a recommended move but occasionally necessary). Cala is still learning. She really doesn't like to drop bars, but she has trouble collecting--her preferred spacing is 2 jumps at least 20 feet apart, and take a small gathering half stride between each one, which means taking off and landing about 8 feet on either side of the jump. She can slice a jump, but not always without dropping a foot. She has real trouble with the concept of half-strides and collections. She's been competing for well over a year and I think we'll pull it together this year, with the help of a great local jump class and lots of reps that make her think. Jumps are 80% of agility, and way too many people give them almost no thought at all. |
#7
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4. Robin Nuttall Sep 1, 11:46 am show options Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior From: Robin Nuttall - Find messages by this author Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2005 15:46:38 GMT Local: Thurs, Sep 1 2005 11:46 am Subject: FYI Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original | Report Abuse I agree mostly, but yeah, I'd have to say that in almost all cases it does take awhile, sometimes months, sometimes years, for a dog to truly learn how to jump properly. By that I don't mean the ability to look at a bar between two standards and know you're supposed to heave the old bod over it--but to learn how to be a power jumper--how to collect, how to extend, how to slice, when and how to throw in a half stride or leave it out, etc. all while not dropping the bar. But that's not at all the same thing as the article's ludicrous statements about dogs "jumping from their forelegs" (which is anatomically impossible) and so forth. And even so, my experience has been quite different. Brenin did, and does, all of those things without needing any special training to do it. *I* needed training in how to signal the correct path, but once given the correct path, he does all those things naturally, and has done so from the very beginning. He has dropped bars no more than 3 times in 8 years of agility, even when jumping 30" - and every time he did, it was because I called him when he was in mid-jump, and he dropped a foot turning towards me in mid-air. Morag's only issue with jumping has been that in the early days she would sometimes go around a jump rather than take it, because she would get into full DSG and then wouldn't want to cut stride to loft over 24" jumps (she's 20.5"). This *only* happened in competitions, and it was more of a stress issue than a physical training issue - she knew how to handle her body to do it without any special training, but would get "spazzy" due to overstimulation etc. And Rocsi can pretty much handle any jump at any angle as long as she doesn't get overstimulated and gung-ho. With both of them, it's not been a matter of training to jump, but learning to be focused - they already had the physical skills and coordination. In Bren's case, it was innate - if he were a horse, he'd be called a "natural jumper". With the girls, I think it's a combination of innate ability and the amount of time they spend free-running in the woods. Jumps are 80% of agility, and way too many people give them almost no thought at all. I wouldn't disagree with that (well, except for the percentage, since I do NADAC where 3 of 5 classes are jumpless g), but IMO the skills are best learned naturally, by allowing dogs to run free and play, not by drilling and formal training. In the horse world, the very best jumpers come out of Ireland, where they are allowed to run free until age 2 or so. And there's also the matter of conformation and fitness- the majority of "bad jumpers" I see have builds not really suited to jumping, have actual physical problems, and/or are overweight. |
#8
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"cimawr"?
Sarah, the use of a cloaking device is against the rules established by the United Space Federation! Hah. It's not my fault y'all don't speak Welsh, or that one would have been obvious. I'm posting via spit Google from work, which I don't normally do - everybody's out of the office, and I actually have time on my hands for once (now that I've got all our field guys' payroll squared away for the week). Work is the primary reason I'm not on the groups much anymore - better job means more work, and also means that due to firewall, I don't have newsreader use. So on slower days, I sometimes read via Google, but rarely have or take time to post. |
#9
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Handsome Jack Morrison said
in rec.pets.dogs.behavior: http://slate.msn.com/id/2124888/?GT1=6900 "The bad news: If you haven't been training Fido since he was a wee pup, you've likely already blown it." Say what? While I know the article was written somewhat tongue-in-cheek, I've trained an adolescent rescue dog to high levels, I've helped train older dogs to high levels, and I've seen many rescue dogs on the podium at national events (and not just BCs - somewhere I've got a picture of a GR sitting on podium #1 with 5 black and whites sitting downstream). Agility (as is many dog sports) is a great confidence booster for insecure dogs. Generally, the article is not bad, but it makes agility training seem a lot more difficult, less fun, and more competitive than it really is. "they also have to heel at the appropriate time." That made made me laugh out loud. Sorry: LOL. -- --Matt. Rocky's a Dog. |
#10
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cimawr wrote:
But that's not at all the same thing as the article's ludicrous statements about dogs "jumping from their forelegs" (which is anatomically impossible) and so forth. I never saw the cite to the article so I haven't read it. And even so, my experience has been quite different. Right, but you do understand, I know, that a sample of 3 dogs does not a statistic make. We have found that even dogs we thought were extremely good jumpers improved markedly after taking a structured jump program. Ours uses elements of Chris Zink, Suzanne Clothier, and our instructor's background in horse jumping (and yes, I do realize that dogs are very different than horses in the way they jump). Jumps are 80% of agility, and way too many people give them almost no thought at all. I wouldn't disagree with that (well, except for the percentage, since I do NADAC where 3 of 5 classes are jumpless g), Right, but frankly NADAC doesn't ask that much in the way of jumping. Most of the courses are so spread that tight collections are not often called for, if at all. So I think that a dog that can jump big and flat without dropping bars will probably do pretty darn well in NADAC. In AKC there's more emphasis on city as well as highway driving, and some dogs that jump very well in NADAC have a lot more trouble in AKC based on the ones I've seen who have done both, including my own. but IMO the skills are best learned naturally, by allowing dogs to run free and play, not by drilling and formal training. In the horse world, the very best jumpers come out of Ireland, where they are allowed to run free until age 2 or so. I agree, with a caveat. Those horses also get schooled through cavalettis, grid work, etc. Certainly giving a puppy a good background in free running is, IMO, essential to having an agility dog that is good on its feet. But that does not eliminate the needed steps of teaching them how to jump collected and round as well as spread and flat. A formal jump class with grids, bounce jumping, etc. can be a real asset. And there's also the matter of conformation and fitness- the majority of "bad jumpers" I see have builds not really suited to jumping, have actual physical problems, and/or are overweight. Yes and no. Viva has good functional structure but dropped bars because she was in too much of a hurry and didn't give a rat's ass where her feet were. Cala has even better structure than her mother, but doesn't like to collect at all. Neither are in the least overweight. Yet both have had to learn the skill of jumping. |
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