Hi,

We weren't as educated when we got our Dane as we are now, sad to say. We
did get a fabulous dog, we are thrilled with her, but we are also very glad
that even though her father was Dutch National Champion at the time she
wasn't purchased by anyone wanting to show her--she's an anxious girl when
in distracting circumstances, and a bit clingy, and would have been rehomed
after a stressful time if she'd been intended for the showring, instead of
being raised with us in a family where she feels loved and secure from the
day she was 8 weeks old. But over time we found that the contract was what
would be considered inadequate--the parents and so forth back through the
great-grandparents were hip-checked but that appears to be about it for
health checks, the breeder didn't seem very interested when we wrote to say
she was suspected of Wobblers (no symptoms now in more than five months,
since we switched to a body harness and started limiting her play with
really big and rough dogs, the orthopedist feels she may just have a slight
neck malformation which will never be progressive, still waiting on the
second ortho's take on the x-rays), and reacted not at all when we mentioned
she's been shown to also have a "slightly flat hip". What we were looking to
do was just inform her so she could keep an eye on that line and stop
breeding the parents, etc., so I don't know, maybe she is doing that. I see
our pup's mother hasn't had a litter since hers. She was very helpful about
our girl's frequent vomiting when she was small (long story short, we now
know
she's sensitive to corn), but has never answered questions about whether any
of the rest of the litter or other litters have been skittish, etc. Anyway,
we see this breeder as very well intentioned but not doing all we might have
expected now that we know better, and someday when our dog is getting on and
we add another Dane to grow with we will be a lot better informed as to who
to sign onto the waiting list with.

I was just browsing the breeder's homepage, as I sometimes do, and noticed
something that strikes me as odd.... I wondered just in the spirit of
interest if anyone has any insight into whether something might be going on
there, health-wise, or if it's a coincidence. I saw that they had pups born
in January and February to different mothers, both just under 6 years old.
One mother died later the same month, the other about 6 months later. That's
all, really, no details given, and in the photos on the site the dogs and
pups--most of which seem, oddly, to still be living with the breeder--look
on the face of it to be in good health. When we visited the kennel 1 1/2
years ago to look at our pup everything looked good--no vermin or mess, no
standing old water, clean runs, etc. Is there anything that might have
killed those bitches, or is it likely just to be a coincidence? I got
curious when I noticed that aside form a very elderly wolfhound these were
the only dogs they've lost in a long time, both within a short time of
having litters.

--Katrina

White Monkey wrote:
Hi,

We weren't as educated when we got our Dane as we are now, sad to say. We
did get a fabulous dog, we are thrilled with her, but we are also very glad
that even though her father was Dutch National Champion at the time she
wasn't purchased by anyone wanting to show her--she's an anxious girl when
in distracting circumstances, and a bit clingy, and would have been rehomed
after a stressful time if she'd been intended for the showring, instead of
being raised with us in a family where she feels loved and secure from the
day she was 8 weeks old. But over time we found that the contract was what
would be considered inadequate--the parents and so forth back through the
great-grandparents were hip-checked but that appears to be about it for
health checks, the breeder didn't seem very interested when we wrote to say
she was suspected of Wobblers (no symptoms now in more than five months,
since we switched to a body harness and started limiting her play with
really big and rough dogs, the orthopedist feels she may just have a slight
neck malformation which will never be progressive, still waiting on the
second ortho's take on the x-rays), and reacted not at all when we mentioned
she's been shown to also have a "slightly flat hip". What we were looking to
do was just inform her so she could keep an eye on that line and stop
breeding the parents, etc., so I don't know, maybe she is doing that. I see
our pup's mother hasn't had a litter since hers. She was very helpful about
our girl's frequent vomiting when she was small (long story short, we now
know
she's sensitive to corn), but has never answered questions about whether any
of the rest of the litter or other litters have been skittish, etc. Anyway,
we see this breeder as very well intentioned but not doing all we might have
expected now that we know better, and someday when our dog is getting on and
we add another Dane to grow with we will be a lot better informed as to who
to sign onto the waiting list with.

I was just browsing the breeder's homepage, as I sometimes do, and noticed
something that strikes me as odd.... I wondered just in the spirit of
interest if anyone has any insight into whether something might be going on
there, health-wise, or if it's a coincidence. I saw that they had pups born
in January and February to different mothers, both just under 6 years old.
One mother died later the same month, the other about 6 months later. That's
all, really, no details given, and in the photos on the site the dogs and
pups--most of which seem, oddly, to still be living with the breeder--look
on the face of it to be in good health. When we visited the kennel 1 1/2
years ago to look at our pup everything looked good--no vermin or mess, no
standing old water, clean runs, etc. Is there anything that might have
killed those bitches, or is it likely just to be a coincidence? I got
curious when I noticed that aside form a very elderly wolfhound these were
the only dogs they've lost in a long time, both within a short time of
having litters.

You can speculate til the cows come home, but why not just ask her?
Call her up, tell her you were browsing her page and were surprised and
saddened to see that she had lost two dogs, and what in the world
happened? I don't see this as being excessively nosey; after all, she
posted the info to her website, and you've got one of her pups and hence
an obvious interest.

Kathleen

Just because she lot two dogs close together doesn't mean anything. Barney
passed away from cancer in January and only 8 weeks later I came home to
find Brandy all disoriented and hardly able to walk. In less than three
days she was completely paralyzed. It turned out she had a brain tumor. For
well over two years the minor changes in her I just attributed to her old
age when infact they were warning signs of the tumor.

Celeste

"White Monkey" wrote in message
...
Hi,

We weren't as educated when we got our Dane as we are now, sad to say. We
did get a fabulous dog, we are thrilled with her, but we are also very
glad
that even though her father was Dutch National Champion at the time she
wasn't purchased by anyone wanting to show her--she's an anxious girl when
in distracting circumstances, and a bit clingy, and would have been
rehomed
after a stressful time if she'd been intended for the showring, instead of
being raised with us in a family where she feels loved and secure from the
day she was 8 weeks old. But over time we found that the contract was what
would be considered inadequate--the parents and so forth back through the
great-grandparents were hip-checked but that appears to be about it for
health checks, the breeder didn't seem very interested when we wrote to
say
she was suspected of Wobblers (no symptoms now in more than five months,
since we switched to a body harness and started limiting her play with
really big and rough dogs, the orthopedist feels she may just have a
slight
neck malformation which will never be progressive, still waiting on the
second ortho's take on the x-rays), and reacted not at all when we
mentioned
she's been shown to also have a "slightly flat hip". What we were looking
to
do was just inform her so she could keep an eye on that line and stop
breeding the parents, etc., so I don't know, maybe she is doing that. I
see
our pup's mother hasn't had a litter since hers. She was very helpful
about
our girl's frequent vomiting when she was small (long story short, we now
know
she's sensitive to corn), but has never answered questions about whether
any
of the rest of the litter or other litters have been skittish, etc.
Anyway,
we see this breeder as very well intentioned but not doing all we might
have
expected now that we know better, and someday when our dog is getting on
and
we add another Dane to grow with we will be a lot better informed as to
who
to sign onto the waiting list with.

I was just browsing the breeder's homepage, as I sometimes do, and noticed
something that strikes me as odd.... I wondered just in the spirit of
interest if anyone has any insight into whether something might be going
on
there, health-wise, or if it's a coincidence. I saw that they had pups
born
in January and February to different mothers, both just under 6 years old.
One mother died later the same month, the other about 6 months later.
That's
all, really, no details given, and in the photos on the site the dogs and
pups--most of which seem, oddly, to still be living with the breeder--look
on the face of it to be in good health. When we visited the kennel 1 1/2
years ago to look at our pup everything looked good--no vermin or mess, no
standing old water, clean runs, etc. Is there anything that might have
killed those bitches, or is it likely just to be a coincidence? I got
curious when I noticed that aside form a very elderly wolfhound these were
the only dogs they've lost in a long time, both within a short time of
having litters.

--Katrina

On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 12:01:55 +0200, "White Monkey"
wrote:

we are also very glad
that even though her father was Dutch National Champion at the time she
wasn't purchased by anyone wanting to show her--she's an anxious girl when
in distracting circumstances, and a bit clingy, and would have been rehomed
after a stressful time if she'd been intended for the showring, instead of
being raised with us in a family where she feels loved and secure from the
day she was 8 weeks old.

[...]

When we visited the kennel 1 1/2
years ago to look at our pup everything looked good--no vermin or mess, no
standing old water, clean runs, etc.

health screenings aside, these two points would've made me walk away
from this breeder. i believe dogs--apart from those in a few working
scenarios--should be pets first and whatever else second. if a breeder
is willing to let one of her dogs go into a home where she is not a pet
first and foremost, then i have to wonder about that breeder's
commitment to the well being of that dog.

a breeder who keeps her dogs in kennels is not treating them as family
pets. it's impossible to tell if Saskia is clingy and insecure because
poor socialization or because she's hard-wired that way, but it's
certainly something i'd wonder about if i were in your shoes. it
doesn't matter how spotlessly clean a kennel is, it's not a home.

Is there anything that might have
killed those bitches, or is it likely just to be a coincidence? I got
curious when I noticed that aside form a very elderly wolfhound these were
the only dogs they've lost in a long time, both within a short time of
having litters.

it could well be coincidence. but, how closely were the bitches
related? it's possible that there was a genetic problem that cropped up
in both dogs at the same. I think Kathleen's advice is good: call the
breeder and ask. the worst she can do is tell you it's none of your
business (though i'd argue that's incorrect).

--
shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net || http://cat-sidh.blogspot.com

Our undergarments may be soiled, but our hearts remain pure.
-- Melora (Rasputina)

Thanks, I will call the breeder and ask about it. Meanwhile, I agree now
about the kennels, but at least a) the dogs were not in them when we were
there, but were instead lounging/playing about the yard and house, but I do
think they slept in them and I didn't like it but was naive enough at the
time to think it was a standard thing with breeders, and b) our pup's litter
and mother were living inside being treated as family.

Nonetheless, we do know more now, and also just through having a Dane have
met a number of other Dane owners and one breeder who we really like--but
she only breeds blues, and there may or may not be any temperament
difference and there IS a long debate about that, but we've always had the
best experiences with fawns--so we'll be asking her who she recommends and
researching thoroughly, when the time comes in, oh, maybe 5 years--we will
want to add teh puppy when Saskia still has some good time left and can
enjoy it.
--Katrina