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Captain arthur haggerty SEZ: "A CHIN CHUCK" Makes A ResoundingSound Distraction: "When You Chuck The Dog The Sound Will Travel Up The Mandible To The Ears And Give A Popping Sound To The Dog."



 
 
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Old September 23rd 05, 03:27 AM
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Default Captain arthur haggerty SEZ: "A CHIN CHUCK" Makes A ResoundingSound Distraction: "When You Chuck The Dog The Sound Will Travel Up The Mandible To The Ears And Give A Popping Sound To The Dog."

Captain arthur haggerty SEZ: "A CHIN CHUCK" Makes A
Resounding Sound Distraction: "When You Chuck The Dog
The Sound Will Travel Up The Mandible To The Ears And
Give A Popping Sound To The Dog."

HOWEDY People,

We got liars, dog abusers and CERTIFIED INCURABLE
LONG TERM MENTAL CASES tellin us that choppin tails
off of puppies withHOWET anesthesia, shocking and jerking
and choking dogs on pronged spiked pinch choke collars
DOESN'T HURT...

You want MOORE of the same?

"Gwen Watson" wrote in message
...

The Puppy Wizard wrote:


Koehler On Correcting The Housebreaking Backslider.


"If the punishment is not severe enough, some of these
"backsliders"


Been reading your Koehler book, while sitting on
the toilet again have you? I think it is time
to implement "Playboy" or "Penthouse",
it appears as though you need a life or
a change. But maybe the "Wallstreet Journal"
would be of more educational benefit.


Gwen


The Puppy Wizard has enjoyed humiliating
and debunking HOWER so called EXXXPERTS
so much HE figgers you'll likeWIZE enjoy the
comedy of death terror and error. The Puppy
Wizard calls this phase of dog trainin ATTRITIION
for past crimes against man, dog, and humanity:

"A CHIN CHUCK" Makes A Resounding
Sound Distraction: "When You Chuck The
Dog The Sound Will Travel Up The Mandible
To The Ears And Give A Popping Sound To
The Dog," captain arthur haggerty.

"Puppy Problems Prevented"
CanineHealthOnline.org. - JERRYIZED

HOWEDY People,

This is the typical bullshit you're gonna find from your
expert veterinary behaviorists and expert dog trainers:

"Question:
I have a 4 month old Great Dane female puppy
who has the habit of biting and catching the lead
in her mouth to shake it in a playful manner when
we walk. I am planning to show her in conformation
and need to break this habit. I rubbed Bitter Apple
on the lead but to no avail. I am using Tabasco pepper
sauce now but it is only partially effective. I try telling
her "leave it" and pulling it downward. Any help you
can give me would be appreciated. "

The world faMOUSE cap'n arthur haggerty replies:

"This is not a difficult problem to solve but"

But our expert can't teach us HOWE to do that
without HURTIN the dog...

" it is very difficult to explain because"

Because he has NO method, only fear force confrontation
intimidation pain and aversives.

" of the many variations and nuances involved in doing so. "

IOW the lying dog abusing Thug needs to couch his words
carefully cause he can only tell us to HURT our dogs, PEOPLE!

" Your use of Bitter Apple and Tabasco sauce is not a bad
move"

That'll endear the dog to working with the handler on lead,
and establish trust love and confidence.

" and I would continue to use it."

First use aversives, and if that don't work, HURT THE DOG to
be fair... cause THAT'S ALL our dog lovers know HOWE to do.

Should take a few minutes to train this dog not to do that...
without hurtin him.

" One correction that can be used is chucking the dog under
the chin when she is biting on the leash. "

Kindly enough advice. When done correctly according to
koehler, our good captain's teacher, the dog will not realize
you are the only one with hands standin there.

" Let me briefly explain the chucking technique."

EXCELLENT! Our dog lovers here don't like to give detailed
advice, so's they don't unintentionally mislead nobody noHOWE.

" Cup your hand so that your thumb and forefinger create a
circle."

Kinda like our professor lying doc scruff shake dermer does
when he relaxes on his couch?

" Your hand comes from the bottom up to the lower portion of
the mandible so the Dane doesn't see it at all. "

Right. Although big enough to take your hand off at the
shoulder, they're big stupid dogs and won't realize it's YOU
who just slapped him in the mouth, and will not even know
you're his tormentor.

" When you chuck the dog the sound will travel up the mandible
to the ears and give a popping sound to the dog. "

AHHH YES! Sound Distraction as taught by the good capn!

" Use a verbal correction at the same time. "

You mean like offering to make a deal?

" Do it as many times as it takes to get the dog to stop. "

I've seen Danes not stop, not for over a year till the dog
was too dangerous to do anything with...except by me.

" You will not be able to deliver that correction every time
so "

So that means the variable reinforcement will negate the
method, antagonize the dog, and exacerbate the anxiety which
is causing the dog to mouth and chew on the lead to defend
himself from being jerked and choked on his pronged spiked
pinch choke collar that is necessary for these monster sized
dogs which I grew up with training serious behavior problems
without hurting them, cause the loser DIES... when you fight
with a dog that's too big to intimidate and hurt enough to
make IT respect your Godlike AUTHORITY.

" supplement it with a collar correction. "

A jerk and choke will teach the dog you are in control... and
the guy in control is the bum who's slappin him around and
jerking and choking him for objecting to being jerked and
choked in the first place, PEOPLE.

" An obedience foundation will certainly help. "

AS STATED.

" Now this is the fastest and longest lasting approach in
solving the problem. "

That so, capn? You're a liar and a dog abuser and got to get
exposed to the akc and run outta business, good buddy. We'll
be seeing a lot of each other in the very near future. This
town ain't big enough for the both of us, cap'n... I'm
worldwide.

Get outta Doge. Jerry Howe, The Puppy Wizard. {}; ~ )

==================

Borrowed from: "Puppy Raising Tips" from
professional trainers, John and Amy Dahl.

"Around four months many puppies can withstand a
correction. Unfortunately this is the time they start
teething and if their mouth hurts, they may act
generally sensitive. If this is the case, be patient and
wait for all those baby teeth to fall out.

In training, retrievers often respond to physical correction
better than verbal correction. While "NO!" is extremely
useful if puppy is about to bite an electrical cord or steal
food off the table, when you are teaching them something
(like obedience) a sharp jerk on their lead or swat with a
stick gets the message across with less emotion and less
effect on their confidence.

If they drop the dummy and act like their mouth hurts
when they are teething, stop all retrieving and wait for
their mouth to feel better. A correction should be just
severe enough to get the dog to respond.

Repeated weak corrections are very stressful to the dog."

END lyingfrosty dahl

If you are interested in purchasing a dignified stick to
lay across you puppy's arse, just send a personal check
or money order in the amount of $30-$40 for a 30"-40"
long whuppin stick.

These all natural hickory switches will outlast an
entire litter of puppies! MAYBE MOORE!! Supplies
limited, so HURRY! Be the first in your club to have
the hickory switch training aid guaranteed for the life
of your dog (which may be much shorter than nature
intended!).

Ask yourself: "HOWE COME DOESN'T JERRY
HURT DOGS TO TRAIN THEM?"

And then just answer: "On AccHOWENT Of
JERRY KNOWS HOWE TO TRAIN DOGS
WITHOUT HURTING THEM."

And THEN SAY OUT LHOWED: "IGNORE
JERRY, HE'S MEAN TO DOG ABUSERS."

You can get all the information you need to
PUPPERLY handle and train your dog using
non force, non confrontational, scientific and
psychological methods, in your FREE copy
of The Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits'
End Dog Training Method Manual.

Psychoclown wrote:

"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks" things is something
you twisted out of context, because you are full of bizarro
manure."

Amy lyingfrosty dahl LIES with a straight face and says:

"I don't beat dogs, twist ears, or pinch toes. For the benefit
of anyone who is in doubt, and who chooses not to read the
article (SHE'D REALLY LIKE IT IF YOU DON'T READ IT!),
there is NO mention in it of twisting ears (INDEED, SHE
PINCHES THEM WITH SPIKES).

I would never slap a dog (SHE TEACHES PEOPLE TO
BEAT DOGS WITH STICKS TO MOTIVATE THEM).

I would never advise anyone to slap a dog (SHE'S A
PROVEN LIAR AND DOG ABUSER, do you expect her to
ADMIT THE TRUTH???).

I do not believe there is a single circumstance, ever, where
slapping a dog is anything but destructive."

RIGHT. She PINCHES, not twists... and chin cuff doesn't
mean hit, according to lyinglynn and avrama....

amy lyingfrosty dahl continues:

"Get a stick 30- or 40-inches long. You can have a helper
wield the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher, less tractable
dogs may require you to progress to striking them more
sharply.

REPEAT, VARYING HOW HARD YOU HIT THE DOG.

Now you are ready to progress to what most people think of
as force-fetching: the ear pinch.

Make the dog's need to stop the pinching so urgent that
resisting your will fades in importance.

but will squeal, thrash around, and direct their efforts to
escaping the ear pinch even get a studded collar and pinch
the ear against that if the dog still does not open its mouth,
get out the shotshell.

Try pinching the ear between the metal casing and the
collar, even the buckle on the collar. Persist! Eventually, the
dog will give in

With your hand on the collar and ear, say, 'fetch.'

Immediately tap the dog on the hindquarters with the stick.

Repeat "fetch" and pinch the ear all the way to the dummy.
You can press the dog's ear with a shotshell instead of your
thumb; Say 'fetch' while pressing the dummy against its lips
and pinching its ear."

Gotta LOVE koehler. dahl makes koheler look like St. Francis.

We're gonna teach folks THAT AIN'T NORMAL

That's HOWE COME HOWER DOG LOVERS can't
post here abHOWETS noMOORE.

The Puppy Wizard. } ; ~ )

Amy Dahl writes:

"From where I sit, there is a difference. I haven't noticed
any of the contingent who like Koehler trying to force
their method on everyone, or calling others names because
they do not use the method.

I personally believe the Koehler method is a more
humane way of teaching than any alternative I have
studied.

And I am not averse to learning--I have studied a
number of methods.

Koehler, of course, stops far short of the specialized
work I do with retrievers, and some of the things in his
book, such as making the dog walk behind the handler
on the "finish," are inappropriate for retriever work.

Why do I think Koehler's method is more humane than others?

First, I don't believe "corrections vs. no corrections" is as
significant to dogs as it is to people. Applied correctly,
Koehler's method uses *no* intimidation, fear, or emotional
manipulation. It is clear and definite, and the handler's
actions are always predictable. The method is masterfully
designed to prevent confrontation or vying for control in
any way. It places high demands of responsibility on the
trainer, and takes a great deal of commitment to do correctly,
so it is not for the casual "dabbler." When done well,very
few corrections are needed.

In brief, I think the clarity, predictability, and absence
of emotional blackmail weigh more strongly in the method's
favor, than the occasional brief unpleasantness of correction
weighs against it." lying frosty dahl.

"The Koehler Method of Dog Training" Howell Book House, 1996":

"Housebreaking problems:

Occasionally, there is a pup who seems determined to
relieve himself inside the house, regardless of how
often he has the opportunity to go outside. This dog
may require punishment. Make certain he is equipped
with a collar and piece of line so he can't avoid correction.

When you discover a mess, move in fast, take him to
the place of his error, and hold his head close enough
so that he associates his error with the punishment.
Punish him by spanking him with a light strap or
switch. Either one is better than a folded newspaper.

It is important to your future relationship that you do
not rush at him and start swinging before you get hold of him.

When he's been spanked, take him outside. Chances
are, if you are careful in your feeding and close
observation, you will not have to do much punishing.
Be consistent in your handling. To have a pup almost
house-broken and then force him to commit an error by
not providing an opportunity to go outside is very
unfair. Careful planning will make your job easier.

The same general techniques of housebreaking apply
to grown dogs that are inexperienced in the house.

For the grown dog who was reliable in the house and
then backslides, the method of correction differs
somewhat. In this group of "backsliders" we have the
"revenge piddler." This dog protests being alone by
messing on the floor and often in the middle of a bed.

The first step of correction is to confine the dog
closely in a part of the house when you go away, so
that he is constantly reminded of his obligation. The
fact that he once was reliable in the house is proof
that the dog knows right from wrong, and it leaves you
no other course than to punish him sufficiently to
convince him that the satisfaction of his wrongdoing is
not worth the consequences.

If the punishment is not severe enough, some of these
"backsliders" will think they're winning and will
continue to mess in the house. An indelible impression
can sometimes be made by giving the dog a hard
spanking of long duration, then leaving him tied by the
mess he's made so you can come back at twenty
minute intervals and punish him again for the same
thing.

In most cases, the dog that deliberately does
this disagreeable thing cannot be made reliable by the
light spanking that some owners seem to think is
adequate punishment. It will be better for your dog, as
well as the house, if you really pour it on him.

Some of the new "breaking scents" on the market can
aid in your house-breaking program. One type
discourages the dog from even visiting an
area. Another encourages him to relieve himself in the
area where it is sprinkled. Your pet shop should be
able to supply further information on the brands available
in your district.

Be fair to your dog in what and when you feed him and
be consistent in your efforts to housebreak him, and
you'll soon accomplish the job.

BARKING, WHINING, HOWLING, YODELING,
SCREAMING, AND WAILING

The fact that you realize you have such a problem
makes it certain you have "reproved" the dog often
enough to let him know you were against his sound
effects, even though your reproving didn't quiet them,
so we'll bypass the loudly clapped hands, the cup of
water in his face, and the "shame-shames" and start
with something more emphatic.

We'll begin with the easiest kind of vocalist to correct:
the one that charges gates, fences, doors, and
windows, barking furiously at familiar or imaginary
people and objects. A few clusters of BBs from a
good slingshot, in conjunction with the light line and
plenty of temptations, will cause such a dog to use
his mind rather than his mouth.

But you won't make the permanent impression unless
you supply dozens of opportunities for him to exercise
the control he thus acquires. Make sure these
opportunities don't always come at the same time
of the day, else he may learn to observe the "quiet
hour" and pursue his old routines at other times.

With the help of the light line, it will be easy to follow
the BBs with a long down to make sure he gets the
most from his lesson. As was mentioned before,
eliminating the senseless barking will not lessen the
dog's value as a watchdog but rather, as he grows
more discriminating, increase it.

The dog who vocalizes in bratty protest or
lonesomeness because you're gone constitutes a
different problem. If it is impractical for someone
to stay with him constantly (there are owners who
cater to neurosis by employing dog sitters), you'll have
to heed the neighbors and the law and quiet the dog.

This calls for a little ingenuity as well as a heavy hand.

Attach a line to your dog's collar, so your corrective
effort doesn't turn into a footrace around the house
until you reach a stalemate under the bed. This use of
the line in the correction will also serve to establish it
as a reminder to be quiet as the dog drags it around
when you're not present.

Next, equip yourself with a man's leather belt or a
strap heavy enough to give your particular dog a good
tanning. Yup-we're going to strike him. Real hard.
Remember, you're dealing with a dog who knows he
should be quiet and neighbors who have legal rights to
see that he does.

When the noise comes, instead of trying to sneak up to
the door so you can barge in while he's still barking,
which is generally impossible, respond to his first
sound with an emphatic bellow of "out," and keep
on bellowing as you charge back to his area.

Thunder through the door or gate, snatch up the belt
that you've conveniently placed, and descend on him.
He'll have no chance to dodge if you grab the line and
reel him in until his front feet are raised off the floor or,
if he's a big dog, until you've snubbed him up with a
hitch on something.

While he's held in close, lay the strap vigorously
against his thighs.

Keep pouring it on him until he thinks it's the bitter
end. A real whaling now may cut down somewhat
on the number of repeat performances that will be
necessary.

When you're finished and the dog is convinced that he
is, put him on a long down to think things over while you
catch your breath. After fifteen or twenty minutes, release
him from the stay and leave the area again.

So that you won't feel remorseful, reflect on the truth
that a great percentage of the barkers who are given
away to "good homes" end up in the kindly black box
with the sweet smell. Personally, I've always felt that
it's even better to spank children, even if they "cry
out," than to "put them to sleep."

You might have a long wait on that comfortable porch
before your dog starts broadcasting again. When he
does, let your long range bellow tie the consequent
correction to his first sound and repeat the
spanking, if anything emphasizing it a bit more.

It might be necessary to spend a Saturday or another
day off so that you'll have time to follow through
sufficiently. When you have a full day, you will be able
to convince him each yelp will have a bad
consequence, and the consistency will make your job
easier. If he gets away with his concert part of the
time, he'll be apt to gamble on your inconsistency.

After a half dozen corrections, "the reason and the
correction" will be tied in close enough association so
that you can move in on him without the preliminary
bellowing of "out." From then on, it's just a case of
laying for the dog and supplying enough bad
consequences of his noise so he'll no longer feel like
gambling.

If there has been a long history of barking and whining,
it sometimes requires a lot of work to make a dog be
quiet when you're not around, so give the above
method an honest try before you presume your dog
requires a more severe correction." wm koehler.

Here's lyingdogDUMMY aka jack morrison aka
joey finnochiario aka tommy soronson of soronson's
retriever kennels, MO, USA BEATING A DOG to
HOWEsbreak IT:

"Handsome Jack Morrison"
wrote in message

...

On 26 Jul 2003 22:14:29 GMT, (DogStar716)

wrote:

Never mind dogman


You too? Some folks just never learn.


Uh huh


One of the signs of mental illness is to say "Uh huh" a lot.


PS: If the "trainer" you were talking about isn't on this
list, he (or she) is NOT an approved Koehler trainer, no
matter how loud you scream otherwise.


May I laugh again? LOL! One doesn't need to be on a list
to use Koehlers
methods or teach his methods.


Let me be among the first (apparently) to tell you that not
every trainer who uses a leash is a *Koehler* trainer.


Sheesh.


This person may call herself a Koehler trainer, but if she's
hanging 12 week old puppies, she's about as far from a
Koehler trainer as a dog trainer can possibly be.


Again, this is just your IGNORANCE showing.


I can call myself a devout Christian, but if I'm not
adhering to the doctrine, I'm something else.


http://www.koehlerdogtraining.com/patoflearn.html

Sorry, the very first sentences make me aware that whoever
wrote it knows nothing about PR based training:


"Amidst the current (and politically correct) trend in
Positive Reinforcement
Only training systems"


You cannot use PR only.


Au contraire. Many, many posters to r.p.d.b. (and many
other places as well) *claim* that they use nothing but R.
You know, the PPers.


And they do it quite loudly, too.


Surely you aren't blind (and deaf), as well as ignorant?


Those are hard handicaps to overcome, Dogstar.


And if you knew anything about PR BASED training, you would
realize that. It's not all cookies and babytalk.


There is no stronger supporter of R than Handsome Jack
Morrison, but I also use every behavioral tool in my bag,
including R-, P, and P-, because I know that even R has its
limits.


You'd know that too, if you didn't have your head in the
sand.


But that seems to be the battle cry of the Koehler-ites.


The Koehlerites have no battle cry.


They have behaviorism on their side, and that's more than
enough.


I don't need instruction on how to give my dogs a proper
leash correction as I
do not rely on a leash to control or teach my dog.


That may or may not be suitable for your needs, but it's not
suitable for the majority of dog owners, especially since
the advent of leash laws.


Besides, after just a few weeks of proper Koehler training,
Koehler dogs likewise are no longer in need of a leash.


That you apparently don't know that, once again shows me
just how ignorant of anything to do with Koehler you are.


My last two dogs have been trained offleash right from the
start, using rewards for what I like, and nothing for what
I don't like.


Good for you, and if that level of training is good enough
for you, fine. But it's not good enough for many of the
rest of us.


Again, I'm not saying Koehler doesn't work.


I really have no idea what you're saying anymore, because
you apparently know so damn little about Koehler and
behavioral principles in general that it's hard to have an
informed discussion with you.


PS: It boggles my mind at how stupid you must be to keep
denying that those certain harsh methods are only for LAST
RESORT situations, intended only to SAVE A DOG'S LIFE,
even after I've repeatedly given you direct *quotes* from
Koehler's book saying just that. It's like you don't even
care how stupid people think you are, or how devious you
are, etc. That can't help your cause any. You'd think that
you'd at least want to *appear* to be honest, even if you're
not. -- Handsome Jack Morrison *gently remove the detonator
to reply via e-mail


"Handsome Jack Morrison"
wrote in message

...
On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 17:52:18 -0400, "Krishur"
wrote:


Good books huh?


Absolutely. Some are, in fact, classics.


Which idea was your favorite, the one where they tell you
to alpha roll a "dominant" dog,


There's nothing inherently wrong with rolling a dog (i.e.,
it *can* and *does* work in *some* situations).
Unfortunately, most people either do it incorrectly, do it
at the wrong time, etc.


or where they tell you that you didn't hit him hard enough
if he doesn't yelp or approaches you within 5 minutes of
his punishment?


If physical discipline is deemed necessary (after careful
evaluation), it's much more cruel not to get it over with
quickly than it is to do it incrementally and
half-heartedly, which usually only invites the need for even
more discipline.


Maybe you liked when they recommend these beatings for
housebreaking accidents, chewing/destructive behavior,
stealing, trying to get on your bed
at night and dog on dog aggression.


At no time do the Monks *ever* advocate beating a dog. A
swat on the rump or a check to the chin does *not*
constitute a "beating."


I'm sorry if you don't agree.


And each of those behavior "problems" needs to be looked at
in its proper context.


A quote from the Monks:


"We repeat, these situations may merit physical discipline.
Since no book can pretend to analyze every individual dog
and situation, we feel obligated to emphasize from the
outset that discipline is never an arbitrary training
technique to be applied to each and every dog for all
offenses. We do, however, believe that physical and verbal
discipline can be an effective technique. The best policy if
you experience any of the above problems is to consult a
qualified trainer or veterinarian for evaluation of your
individual situation....


"If discipline is decided upon as a training technique, it
should be the proper technique. We feel we have developed
several methods that depend less on violent physical force
than timing, a flair for drama, and the element of surprise.
We feel an obligation, as responsible trainers, to map out
these methods, rather than simply skip the topic because it
is unpleasant. Dog owners want to know what to do."


In other words, physical discipline is reserved for those
serious, special occasions when other methods have failed.


For example, they do not recommend using physical discipline
for *routine* housebreaking chores -- only on those rare
occasions when an already reliably housebroken dog is (after
careful evaluation) deemed to be soiling the house on
purpose, backsliding, etc.


I'll give you an actual example. Years ago, an adult dog
was brought to me as an *incurable* house-soiler. It was
either get the dog reliably housetrained or the dog was
going on a one way trip to the pound. Being the kind,
compassionate trainer that I am, I was prepared to do
whatever it took to get this dog house-trained and save his
life.


After several weeks of more or less traditional training,
and to poor result, I brought out the big guns -- physical
and verbal discipline. Whenever the dog soiled the house
(no, you don't even have to catch him in the act), I
immediately (but very calmly) tossed a leash on his collar,
dragged him to the scene of the crime, and (using a large
chair as a prop) tethered him to the leg of the chair, with
his nose about two inches away from the poop. After a
couple of swats on the rump, some loud vocalizing, and a
wait of about 20 minutes, I'd release the dog and then
ignore him for a while. I had to repeat this process *three*
times, I think -- and the house-soiling miraculously
stopped. The dog went home to enjoy a long and contented
life with his original owners, and I got to feel good about
myself.


So, yes, the Monk's books are good ones. Even for novices.


Yup, that's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.


-- Handsome Jack Morrison *gently remove the detonator to
reply via e-mail


 




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