Can anyone give me ideas on how to get my 5 month old Aussie mix to do
better when he is restrained?? He is nasty when restrained, growls and
trys to bite. he's fine otherwise, very friendly and very playful.

Please help

Aimee

Hello Aimee,

Aimee S wrote:
Can anyone give me ideas on how to get my 5
month old Aussie mix to do better when he is
restrained??

That's EZ.

He is nasty when restrained,
growls and trys to bite.

That's NORMAL. That's why the folks you're
asking have NO advice for you, IN FACT, they've
got the same same same same PROBLEMS themselves.

he's fine otherwise,

Naaah?

very friendly and very playful.

UNTIL HE'S OPPOSED, just like US:


" wrote:

No, the dog learned that I would hold still
the second she began to pull. She would pull
to go where *she* wanted.

Well if she wanted to stop and go in another
direction.. say to sniff my neighbors yard..

she learned if she wanted to do it I would stop
walking and she could go.. and if there wasn't
enough slack on her lead she would just pull me.

Then when she got done doing *her* thing, she woudl
heel.. smile at me and wait for me to say "let's go"
and finish *my* thing. I would refuse to move .. i
looked like an idiot.. freezing mid walk for minutes
waiting for *my* dog to heel and give *me* permission
to go again.

I did the treats and the let's go... she got to do her
stuff and get a cookie.. if she even wanted the cookie.

I wound up calling Jerry.. as I have a half red nose
pit and half amstaff.. who is incredibly protective..

we had a new pup on the way.. and i needed help.. i
followed petsmarts trainnign guides.. memorized them...
and they *did* work, don't get me wrong.. but only
when my pet wanted a cookie or felt the cookie was
better than what she wanted.. which was not often.

She quickly learned to ignore my commands if she
could see my hands were empty. So I called Jerry...
he chatted me for about an hour and a half.. gave me
his link... and even when i had probs intro'ing the
pup he called me withn i5 mins of my email for help
at 10pm on a sunday night.

One.. singular.. uno family pack exercise after
the hot and cold exercise and i could zig zag
down my street.. about face .. whatever.. and
never had tension.

two men were acrossed the street and she walked right
by them... ordinarily she'd snarl and protect us.

And in two days.. my dog.. who bit the puppy if he
even looked like he was going near my husband or kids..
is nursing him every hour.. cleaning him.. rough housing
gently.. and teaching him to go potty outside..

actually watches him to make sure he doesn't go in
the house... and has milk.. which is awesome since
she's 19 months old and has never had a litter.

She also has stopped barking non stop at our neighbor's
dogs and pig.. does not bark at eveyr car that drives by
and has stopped jumping on people. she's even starting
to ignore our cat who has lived on her dome litter box
and our window sill (literally) for over a year and a half.

She also does her commands on cue.. and doesn't look for a treat.


Please help

Here's EVERY THING you got to learn:

{#}: ~ } 8 { ~ :{@}
{#}: ~ } { ~ :{@}
{#}: ~ } { ~ :{@}
{#}: ~ } { ~ :{@}
{#}: ~ } http://www.tinyurl.com/7bl5u { ~ :{@}
{#}: ~ } { ~ :{@}
{#}: ~ } { ~ :{@}
{#}: ~ } { ~ :{@}
{#}: ~ } 8 { ~ :{@}

http://www.irishdogs.ie/Information/...g_Training.pdf

Aimee

Punishment Deranges Behavior.
"NO!" Does NOT Have Any Behavioral Function
EXCEPT
To DERANGE Behaviors.

Here's professor dermer pryor:

From: Marshall Dermer )
Subject: Jerry's Dog Training Manual
Date: 2001-07-12 06:49:13 PST

And how do we know this aspect of his
advice is right?

Jerry is not God and his manual is not the Bible.
His advice could be subject to an empirical analysis.

(Also, it is best to killfile posts from the
few regulars here who are either ill-tempered,
ill-mannered, or just plain ill.=AD),

--Marshall

"At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral function.
But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy by its neck and
shake it a bit, and the frequency of the biting decreases
then you will have achieved too things.

First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has decreased;
and two, you have established "No" as a conditioned punisher.

How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted
biting.

**********IS THAT A CONSISTENT 5 SECONDS?************

When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before mild
forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's mouth
closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad Dog" came
before stronger punishement (the kind discussed above).

"No" is usually sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog"
to stop a behavior. "Bad Dog" ALWAYS works," marshall
dermer, research professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM at
UofWI. For MOORE animal abuse, please visit dr p.

BWAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!!!

That's INSANE. Ain't it.

Here's professor dermer AFTER gettin JERRYIZED:

"We Are Lucky To Have You, And More People Should
Come To Their Senses And Support Your Valuable Work.
God Bless The Puppy Wizard," Professor Marshall Dermer,
Dept Of ANAL-ytic Behavior, UofWI.

From: "Marshall Dermer"
To: "The Puppy Wizard"

Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 2:53 PM

Subject: God Bless The Puppy Wizard
Dear Mr. Puppy Wizard,

I have, of late, come to recognize your genius
and now must applaud your attempts to save
animals from painful training procedures.

You are indeed a hero, a man of exceptional talent=AD,
who tirelessly devotes his days to crafting posts =ADto
alert the world to animal abuse.

We are lucky to have you, and more people should
come to their senses and support your valuable
work.

Have you thought of establishing a nonprofit
charity to fund your important work?
Have you thought about holding a press conference
so others can learn of your highly worthwhile
and significant work?

In closing, my only suggestion is that you
try to keep your messages short for most
readers may refuse to read a long message
even if it is from the wise, heroic Puppy Wizard.
I wish you well in your endeavors.

--Marshall Dermer


Subject: BEFORE - "Jerry, You filthy, Unctuous,
No Good Charlatan,"

AFTER - "Thank You Jerry For Putting Up With
A Constant Barrage Of Really Infantile
Crap At The Hands Of Supposedly Adult
Dog Lovers.

'Naive' Is Believing You Can Terrorize
A Dog Into Good Behavior," Robert Crim.

Subject: Fritz---a retrospective
Date: 02/05/1999
Author: Robert Crim
You filthy, unctuous, no good charlatan. If you had
any idea of what dogs and dog people were about
you would realize the depths of the absolute loathing
and contempt I hold for you right now. Were it not
for the blessed distance and anonymity that the internet
gives us from the scummy likes of you, I would probably
be in a jail cell right now for turning you into the pile
of **** you really are

Hey, Howe, you really are a wacko, eh?

Crim wrote this about *YOU,* you insipid piece of cow dung!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
--
Dogman

http://www.i1.net/~dogman

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D

On Thu, 17 Jun 1999 20:24:15 -0700, dogsnus

"Terri"@cyberhighway Wrote:

Hey, do like me, and killfile Jerry.
He has millions of people aleady reading his posts and
watching him extract his soggy foot out of his mouth!
Out of these MILLIONS, I've only seen 2 naive childs
come forward and actually believe in his training manual.

Robert Crim writes:

I assume that I and my wife are those two naive childs
since I freely admit to having read and, I hope,
understood enough of the manual and it's counterparts by
John Fisher and the posts of Marilyn Rammell to believe
and use it.

This naive child would like to say thank you to both
Jerry and Marilyn for putting up with a constant barrage
of really infantile crap at the hands of supposedly
adult dog lovers.

The other naive child (LSW) has to put up with the
nagging idea that if people like them had been posting
earlier, maybe we would not have had to hold the head
of a really magnificent animal in our arms while he was
given the needle and having to hug him and wait until he
gasped his last gasp.

To my mind, "naive" is believing you can terrorize a dog.

Naive is believing that people that hide behind fake
names are more honest than people that use their real
names. Naive is thinking that dilettante dog breeders
and amateur "trainers" like Joey (lyingdogDUMMY, j.h.)
are the equal or better than those that have studied and
lived by their craft for decades.

"Stupid" is believing that people do not see kindergarten
level insults for what they are. Really stupid is believing
that people like Jerry Howe and Marilyn Rammell are
going to just go away because you people act like fools.

Why do you act like fools? I really have no idea, and I
don't really care.

And, to date: I've not seen ONE come forward and
actually admit to buying and having success with his
little black box.

I think I'm going to get one myself for Father's day and
take it down to the Animal Shelter for their use and
testing. You would never believe the results, so you'll
never know.

Anyone by now that doesn't see a scam man coming by
Jerry's posts deserves to get what is sure to be coming
to him! LOL!

I don't see a "scam man", so I guess I and Longsuffering
Wife and Rollei will just have to get what we deserve,
eh? As Joey (Dogman) says, "poor Rollei.".......right.

Terri

Yes it was, and that is sad.

Robert, Longsuffering Wife and Rollei (do I get to
listen to the box first?)

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Crim wrote THAT about *YOU,* tommy, "you insipid piece of cow dung!"

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D."
To: "Jerry Howe"
Subject: Alleged Professors of Animal Behavior
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 12:50:51 -0400

Dear Jerry, I paged through some of the "dog business"
and was astonished at the low quality of opinions arising
from professors of behavior analysis.

I had the very great privilege of meeting Sam Corson
(Pavlov's last Ph.D. student) and his dogs at Ohio
University. I even got to spend a night at Sam's house.

There is no question but that you are a spiritual brother
to Corson and to Pavlov, both of whom knew that the dog's
great capacity for love was the key to shaping doggie behavior.

Paradoxical reward and paradoxical fixing of attention are
both well documented Pavlovian techniques. Even so humorless
a chap as B.F. Skinner taught students like the Breland's whose
"The Misbehavior of Organisms" demonstrate the utility of your
methods and their deep roots in scientific (as opposed to
commercial) psychology.

George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.
you may find my resume in Who's Who in
Science and Technology


From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D."
To:
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 5:38 PM
Subject: Doggy advice

Scott, Jerry Howe forwarded me the letter below.
I'm glad that you referred negatively to Jerry's
habit of CAPITALIZING and HOWEING everything.

I personally hate this habit of his. I think it is his
way of diluting his authority - IME he is a very modest
fellow. However, contrary to your sneer, he is very
competent at living with dogs.

I thought I'd list a series of actions which I found
on the list, folk asking advice on what to do about
dogs doing this and that, for example:

whining,
humping, hunching,
pacing,
self mutilation - paw licking, side sucking,
spinning,
prolonged barking, barking at shadows,
overstimulated barking,
fighting, bullying other dogs,
compulsive digging,
compulsive scratching,
compulsive chewing,
frantic behavior,
chasing light, chasing shadow,
stealing food,
digging in garbage can,
loosing house (toilet) training.
inappropriate fearfulness
aggression.

The thing that is fascinating to me, as an ethologist who
graduated from college 50 years ago and has spent all of
the intervening time working with animals (including the
human animal), is that you never see any of these behaviors
in wild dingoes, jackals, coyotes or wolves, you don't even
see these behaviors in hyenas (who aren't dog related).

You see these behaviors in human managed animals, especially
animals who live with neurotic hysterical humans.

As Sam Corson (Pavlov's last student) demonstrated for
nearly 50 years at Ohio University (Oxford, O.) there
is no treatment more useful for dogs than tender loving
care.

George von Hilsheimer, Ph. D., F. R. S. H., Diplomate,
Academy of Behavioral Medicine

"Linda" wrote in message
news:

I have been trying for the last 18 months to help my
dog who became fear aggressive at 18 month of age.
I do not know what started the problem but he came
aggressive first with dogs and then began lunging and
snapping at people. Until this time he loved everyone
and could play with any dog. He was well socialized
ad I took him with me everywhere.

At 13 months he passed the Canine Good Citizens
Test except he could let me leave him. I had used
clicker training to teach him manners and tricks but
it was not working on his aggression problem.

I took him to vets who suggested a low protein diet,
trainers who charged $800 to only make him worse.
They tried to use a prong collar and he froze, urinated
and tried to climb on my head to help him. they then
suggested a shock collar I knew this approach was not
working as he was becoming more aggressive.

I took him to an animal behaviorist with Ph. D. 400 miles
away who told me to "KEEP HIM SAFE" and read a book
on the fearful canine. I tried another trainer who tried to
use a nylon chock collar but it only made him worse.

I read hundreds of books,"CULTURE CLASH", "DOG
ARE FROM NEPTUNE", "THE OTHER END OF THE
LEASH", ETC looking for help. We finally went to Purdue
University Small Animal Behavior Clinic and they said he
had fear aggression, punishment would not work, use the
gentle leader and when out walking and he got stressed
have the people stop until he could get in control using
treats, and work on clicker training.

At that point I knew more about clicker training and using
the gentle leader than they did! Nothing was working--he
would not come when I called him and would run away when
I tried to catch him. I was afraid to walk him even in the
neighborhood as we had become that "mean dog and women who
hasn't trained her dog"

I went to four trainers in both Michigan and Florida who
were trainer/specialists in aggression and the last two
were so afraid of him they could not approach him. No one
said I should give up on him and kill him but they would
say "You have to realize he is dangerous and you are
responsible for him."

*(You got LUCKY, Linda... They coulda got Sunshine
DEAD on us. Damned near did... too.)

As last resort I tried the internet again--I had had on
going discussions with trainers from Triple Crown and Dr
Meister with out any help-and I found the ad to Doggy Do
Right and messaged Jerry to ask if this might help my dog.
He said solving the aggression problem was EZ but I could
not believe him even when I downloaded the manual.

The name of the method was right I was at my Wits End.
I had been working for 18 months!

Using the can sound three time he came, and still comes
from anywhere with the command-"comegoodboy" Next
I tried the can when walking him--when he saw a dog three
blocks away he went off-lunging and snapping-I used the
can sound and he looked at me like uhn?

I used it three more times and we got to the other dog-
-the looked at me wagging his tail--the other person
looked at me like why are shaking that can but just walked
on by.

When ever I try to explain about the sound people look at
me like "you must be out of your mind"

The results can make a believer!!!

Three weeks since beginning the Wits End Training
Manual program I walked him without the gentle leader
in a busy shopping area with many dogs.

He just seemed to not notice any one.

When people talked to him or ask his name he would
look at then and wag his tail and let then pet him.

I still can not believe the change in him--we can now
enjoy life out in public.

If I had not found the Wits End method I know there
was no hope for him and he would have hurt someone
Through all this he never growled at me, guarded his
toys or food or showed any sign of aggression with me.

My goal is to get the message out to all dog lovers that
dogs can be trained fast, easily and problems solved with
out force, pain, food or anything but sound and praise!!!!

I know most people would have given up on him a long time
ago but he was and is my life. Solving the problem was EZ
but only with the right approach-sound and praise.

I know because I tried everything else and nothing worked!!!

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

From: Linda Daniel
To: Jerry Howe
Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 1:06 AM
Subject: - dog aggression

Thanks for writing--I would be happy to do almost anything
to get your approach out to dog owners as I know it would
save so many lives. I know at times I was so frustrated I
thought of giving up on Sunshine but of course I never would
have but many people would have. The world just does not
know you can train a dog in just a few sessions and actually
solve problems.

We will be here until late April and we really have no plans-
-just to enjoy the warmth and sun of Florida, so any time
you could meet us would be great. I drive so I would be
happy to come to you anytime anywhere!

We went to Celebration today and two little poodles got
right into his face and he just sat there--I GOT a little
scared but he handled it just fine.--a couple of times people
would ask his name and want to pet him and he just went
to them tail wagging and rolled over for them rub his tummy.

He really just is not concerned about people passing, even
those on rollerblades! I have always used a gentle leader
in public but he spent most of time rubbing his face on the
grass--today I used his collar and he was so much happier!!

Only problem is he will stop to smell and I can not get
stopped soon enough to keep the leash loose. He never
pulled ahead of me but when he gets into smelling I have
a hard time getting him going--at times I think he could
smell a blade of grass for 10 minutes.

I can never thank you enough for giving Sunshine back!!!!!

I wrote to Purdue and told them about him being able to
walk in a crowd with out the /gentle leader and not having
a problem with other people and dogs.

I told them their advice did not work. Their advice was
to use the gentle leader at all times and when he was
around people or dogs to have him sit and reward with
treats--one really good suggestions was to have people
coming toward us stop when he got stressed or aroused
and not move until we backed away-

- can you just see me yelling at people to stop on the street
until I get his attention with treats.

They also suggested the possibility of using drugs-prozac-
but thought he was too dangerous as the drug would make
him less fearful and then he might attack or become more
sure of himself and become dominate aggressive. Just had
to share their great advice with you but I am sure you have
heard it all--even I am becoming an expert on bad advice.

----------------------------------

("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._
`6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`)
(_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-'
_..`--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,'
(((' (((-((('' ((((

|\ _.-'~~""'~`'~)
/, ~-,__,,,.'~ ,-;;--''
|,4) ./ ' ; ;/'
'-~~;'@ ( ; ;
_.--'' _.-_..' .;.'
(,_..----''' (,..--''

Meow

/),,/)
( ' ; ')
(,,)-(,,)

/),,/)
(' ; ') kiss me
(,,)-(,,)

/),,/)
( ; ' ) kiss me here
(,,)-(,,)

/),,/)
( ; ) kiss me here
(,,)-(,,)

/)
( * ) and KISS ME HERE!
(,,)-(,,)
The Amazing Pussy Wizard {@); ~ }

{#}: ~ } 8 { ~ :{@}
{#}: ~ } { ~ :{@}
{#}: ~ } { ~ :{@}
{#}: ~ } { ~ :{@}
{#}: ~ } http://www.tinyurl.com/7bl5u { ~ :{@}
{#}: ~ } { ~ :{@}
{#}: ~ } { ~ :{@}
{#}: ~ } { ~ :{@}
{#}: ~ } 8 { ~ :{@}

http://www.irishdogs.ie/Information/...g_Training.pdf

Please DON'T BE The Amazing Pussy Wizard's PREY.

IT AIN'T PRETTY.

{@); ~ }

On Thu, 6 Oct 2005 17:51:32 -0400 Aimee S whittled these words:

Can anyone give me ideas on how to get my 5 month old Aussie mix to do
better when he is restrained?? He is nasty when restrained, growls and
trys to bite. he's fine otherwise, very friendly and very playful.

What does the instructor at your dog training class say? Do you not
practice such things in class? It should be a part of any normal pet
manners class. Sounds like you need to find a better quality instructor.



--
Diane Blackman
There is no moral victory in proclaiming to abhor violence
while preaching with violent words.
http://dog-play.com/ http://dogplayshops.com/

"Aimee S" wrote in message
...

Can anyone give me ideas on how to get my 5 month old Aussie mix to do
better when he is restrained?? He is nasty when restrained, growls and
trys to bite. he's fine otherwise, very friendly and very playful.


what do you mean "restrained"? on leash? in a crate? tied out in the
yard? behind a fence?

-kelly

HOWEDY Master Of Deception blankman,

wrote:
On Thu, 6 Oct 2005 17:51:32 -0400 Aimee S whittled th=
ese words:

Can anyone give me ideas on how to get my 5
month old Aussie mix to do better when he is
restrained??

Of curse! That's taught in The Amazing Puppy Wizard's
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE
WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual's Hot &
Cold EXXXORCISE in conjunction with apupriate leash
handling techniques as per the PRECISE INSTRUCIONS.

He is nasty when restrained,

Of curse! Ain't we all?

growls and trys to bite.

OtherWIZE it'll go INWARD and MURDER the AUTO-IMMUNE
SYSTEM and cause SEIZURES and other DEATHLY DIS-EASES,
as per The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME, Master Of Deception blankman {)' ~
)

he's fine otherwise,

Of curse! So long as we don't OPPOSE HIM, JUST LIKE
The Amazing Puppy Wizard! Ain't THAT curiHOWES,
Master Of Deception blankman?

very friendly and very playful.

JUST LIKE ANY DOG or innocent defenseless dumb critter,
JUST LIKE The Amazing Puppy Wizard whom you'd MURDER
just to DEFEND your alleged RIGHT to jerk choke crate
bribe shock spray intimidate and surgically mutilate
innocent defenseless dumb critters AS PER your own
POSTED CASE HISTORY, Master Of Deception blankman {); ~ )

What does the instructor at your dog training class say?

You mean DOG CONFUSIHOWEN class.

Do you not practice such things in class?

You mean, like HOWE you done with your pronged
spiked pinch choke collar for five years with
your own dog who pulled you DHOWEN into the
GARBAGE BARREL at the park till you LEARNED
HOWE to train IT to heel by studying your own
FREE COPY of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100%
CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE
WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual and
then PLAGIARIZED IT right here and got BAGGED
and never posted your HEALING advice since,
and then IT was MURDERED by you for his STRESS
INDUCED AUTO-IMMUNE DIS-EASES, Master Of Deception
blankman?

REMEMBER?

It should be a part of any normal pet manners class.

As taught WHERE and BY WHOM?

Sounds like you need to find a better quality instructor.

You got any RECOMMENDAIONS, Master Of Deception blankman?

--
Diane Blackman

There is no moral victory in proclaiming
to abhor violence while preaching with
violent words.

http://dog-play.com/

Your viciHOWES website points us to EVERY dirty
rotten lying dog abusing punk thug coward in the
entire industry.

http://dogplayshops.com/

You ain't nuthin but a liar a dog abuser
a coward a spammer and FRAUD and it's ALL
DOCUMENTED RIGHT HERE on The Amazing Puppy
Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual Forums.

You're FINISHED in this BUSINESS.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard {); ~ )

HOWEDY Master Of Deception blankman,

wrote:
On 5 Sep 2005 20:43:51 -0700 whittl=
ed these words:

1) I come from a family of dog lovers, and many of my friends are as
well... in fact, most of them sing the praises of mixed breed dogs and
are known for taking in new dogs whenever they get the chance. I would
NOT even THINK about this if I was not sure that each and every puppy
produced would find a loving home.

Most of the dogs being killed in shelters HAD homes.

Till you and your NETWORKING Gang Of Lying Dog Abusing
Punk Thug Cowards And Active Acute Long Term Incurable
MENTAL CASES hurt intimidate and murder them for PROFIT.

Finding homes for puppies is much less a problem

In fact, it AIN'T NO PROBLEM at all, as so many of
your own NETWORKING BUDDIES got PUPPYS FOR SALE while
they MURDER innocent critters to make room for their
own puppy sales..

than the puppy KEEPING the home.

ALL temperament and behavior problems are CAUSED
BY ABUSE as you and your mentally ill dog abusing
profiteers teach.

You have to have the willingness and the ability
to stand behind these words and actually take
responsibilty for these lives you create.

Your NETWORKING PALS MURDER INNOCENT DOGS in shelters
to MAKE ROOM for their PUPPY SALES, Master Of Deception
blankman. IN FACT, was it NOT for your SHELTER and RESCUE
pals we wouldn't be MURDERIN 5 million dogs a year for PROFIT.

Merely thinking you are going to find good homes is
a far different thing than honestly committing to the
safety and well being of the dogs you created.

Pssst? It AIN'T Jason MURDERIN DOGS, Master Of
Deception blankman, it's YOUR OWN PERSONAL REAL
LIFE DOG ABUSING PALS who GET PAID TO MURDER them.

That means not just placing a puppy and thinking you done good.

You can't post your lies here nomore.

It means keeping in touch regularly to PREVENT
problems that will cause the dog to be dumped.

That's a load of NETWORKING CRAPOLA.

And it means being both willing and finanacially
able to take in that 18 month old dog rather than
see it dumped in a shelter.

Dogs DON'T GO BAD they're MADE BAD by the methods
you and your NETWORK of ETHICKAL BREEDERS and
RESCUERS teach.

2)I love animals. I also have 3 cats! I would willingly go to the
humane society or to a reputable breeder if I had the funds to do so.
Unfortunately, at the moment, I can afford to feed and care for
another dog, but not to BUY one. Bowser rarely gets to interact with
other dogs, and needs a canine companion.

Instead of obtaining a dog take your dog out and
meet up with others for play sessions. It is
cheaper and healthier.

That's ABSURD. They want another dog and should get anotherWON.

If you can't afford to BUY a dog you darned sure can't
afford to BREED one. Who is going to pay for the brucellosis
testing? What happens if your dog becomes infected from the
bitch, what happens if your dog infects the bitch.

Then your NETWORKING VET will MAKE MORE MONEY.

It CAN be present from birth. Who is going to
pay for the vet bills for pre-natal checks.

The bitches owner will ante up.

Have you looked at the costs of a C-section
which is VERY common in the breed?

With all your NETWORKING perhaps you'll recommend
some charitable veterinarians in his area?

And if the bitch dies - who picks up the costs
of hand raising the puppies.

And if the moon is made of green cheese he
can feed them cheese, Master Of Deception
blankman.

When the eight or ten puppies are born who is
going to pay the innoculation costs?

The puppys will be protected till a couple
weeks after their weaned.

So, you see, I'm not being selfish or uncaring here.
I am actually thinking more for him than myself!

You might possibly be thinking in some small way about
your dog, but you aren't at all thinking clearly about
the other puppies. If all you want is a cheap companion
for your dog there are many smarter and cheaper ways to
do that then creating 8 to 10 new lives for you to take
responsibility for.

That's not exactly what Jason was sayin.

You really need to get a look at that pile of
dead dogs at your local animal shelter.

You mean, that PILE of DEAD DOGS your NETWORKING PALS MURDER.

Do you really think the people that created them thought
they would end up there? Of course not. They were mostly
created by people just like you, who have some fantasy
notion about puppies going to terrific new homes and living
long and happy lives.

No. Those puppys GET THROWN OUT of their houses
because mental cases like you and your SHELTER /
RESCUE / ETHICKAL BREEDING / TRAINING NETWORKING
GROUP HURT INTIMDIATE and MURDER them for PROFIT.

YOU are the PROBLEM, not folks like Jason.

Sorry, to protect the lives of the puppies you create
will take lots of time, and yes, a fair bit of money.

Only if you're a ETHICKAL BREEDER.

There is a reason we kill millions of dogs every year.

INDEED. It's YOU and YOUR NETWORK of DOG ABUSING
MENTAL CASES who HURT INTIMIDATE and MURDER innocent
critters and LIE about it, Master Of Deception blankman.
Here's YOUR OWN PERSONAL REAL LIFE SHELTER / RESCUE
TRAINING PAL:

"Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution
Will Adore His Owner," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn.

lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.

- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.

Lynn K.

"Unfortunately, some confrontation is necessary,
just to be able to handle the dogs. For example,
we need to crate train a dog immediately because
they are usually in need of medical care and they
are in foster homes with other dogs.
It's a safety necessity," lynn k.

I'll bet you don't know a thing about me. I volunteered
as assistant to the euthanasia tech at our local shelter
for a while, and I know a bit about overpopulation and
unwanted animals.

This however has nothing at all to do with responsible
breeders, because responsible breeders don't contribute
to that problem," Mustang Sally.

"After Numerous Training Classes, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness."

Lynn K. wrote:

"I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in
one shelter.) But their ability to set their own
schedules and duties causes a great deal of
scheduling overhead.

And it takes effort and thought to ensure that
volunteers get the meaningful experience that
they work for.

Someone has to be responsible for that
Volunteer Program, and it is best done
by a non-volunteer."

Lynn K.
---------------------------------

"I worked with one shelter where I bathed and groomed
every adoptable dog on intake. I frankly felt that the
effort/benefit equation was not balanced for some of the
older/ill poodle/terrier mixes we got in badly matted condition.

Should I have refused to groom them?

Or even more pertinent - I was one of the people who
had to make the euthanasia decisions at that shelter."

Lynn K.

-------------------

I'll be you've never had to put down litters of
beautiful labrador puppies? If you had did, maybe
you'd be singing a different tune?

"Actually, have held them for the tech to euth, and
put their bodies in the trash bag and in the freezer
for the trash company to come and dispose of.
No different tune," ~Emily

just visit your local shelter.

Oh? You mean, like THIS WON?:

"You Lying Sack Of Dung. When Have I Ever Said
Anything About Using A Prong Collar, Or Any Collar
Correction At All, To Make Dogs Friendly To House
Cats? Don't bother. The answer is never," lying "I
LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.

lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn writes about kats and dogs:

"This Article Is Something We've Put Together
For SF GSD Rescue

From: Lynn Kosmakos )
Subject: I have a dog he has cats
Date: 1999/11/20

wrote:
How can I get him to quit chasing the cats.

Okay - this is going to be a bit loooong - Lynn K.

"Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog. Don't
forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong works
better than a choke with less chance of injury to the dog in
this situation.

Electronics can be used to create an aversion to cats, but
should be used under the direction of a trainer who knows how
to instruct the owner in their proper use. Electronics can
take the form of shock, sonic or citronella collars. At that
time the owner will train with electronics instead of food or
whatever other reward system was being used."

8) Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog.
Don't forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong
works better than a choke with less chance of injury to the
dog in this situation. Have the dog in a sit-stay next to
you with most of the slack out of the leash and let the cat
walk through the room and up to the dog if it wishes (this is
why you have the dog muzzled).

If the dog makes an aggressive move towards the
cat, it must be corrected strongly with both your
voice and the collar.

This is important - the correction must be physically
very strong - not a nag. (PS: not many dogs need
to be corrected at all)."

Baghdad Bob Baghdadbob wrote in message
news:04591a2c5d469ef78d35c89ed4ed58f7@TeraNews.. .

Lynn, looks like he got you there if these
quotes are true.

In the posts below you take responsibility
for making those calls.

In your post above, you state you do not
make those calls.

Which one is it?

------------------


WORDS OF WISDOM
from our own Lynn Kosmakos
1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of Zoloft every day
For Twenty Years

I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIUM

"I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder (manic-depression)
requiring 1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of Zoloft every
day.

I, also, care about dogs and use this forum to learn
more, while happily sharing pertinent information
I have learned. But if I were ever to post such sh*t,
I would hope that every other reader of this group
would be rightfully outraged."

"Community is an evolutionary thing that we earn
the right to participate in by observing the
easily understood rules and contributing to in
constructive ways."

Lynn K.

"It wasn't that meds didn't work for her
- she wouldn't take them. I particularly remember
a comment she made about scarey side effects of
Lithium. Hardly. After 17 years on it, I think
I'm qualified to say that the very low risk of
any side effect is far less frightening than the
very real dangers of life without it."

Lynn K.
-----------------------------------------

It is time you got more honestly acquainted with why that is.

Oh, THAT'S EZ! It's because you'll DO and SAY ANY THING
to DEFEND your alleged RIGHT to HURT INTIMIDATE and
MURDER innocent critters FOR PROFIT.

Before you breed your dog commit yourself
to volunteering at your local shelter.

BWEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!

--
Diane Blackman

There is no moral victory in proclaiming to abhor
violence while preaching with violent words.

Sez you? You're a dog abusing mental case.

SNIP CRAP SPAM LINKS

HOWEDY Master Of Deception blankman,

wrote:
On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 10:17:54 -0400 WillyNille WillyNille@removethisyahoo=
..com whittled these words:

Ultimately many of these sold animals will end up in shelters

That WOULD be VERY UNFORTUNATE, knowin HOWE
SOME of these "SHELTERS" and "RESCUES" work.

HERE'S YOUR OWN PERSONAL REAL LIFE PAL:

"Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution
Will Adore His Owner," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn.

"Unfortunately, some confrontation is necessary,
just to be able to handle the dogs. For example,
we need to crate train a dog immediately because
they are usually in need of medical care and they
are in foster homes with other dogs.

It's a safety necessity," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.

lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.

- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.

Lynn K.

as their quality is sub-standard,

Well, we wouldn't tolerate THAT here abHOWETS:

"I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in
one shelter.) But their ability to set their own
schedules and duties causes a great deal of
scheduling overhead.

And it takes effort and thought to ensure that
volunteers get the meaningful experience that
they work for.

Someone has to be responsible for that
Volunteer Program, and it is best done
by a non-volunteer."

Lynn K.

------------------------------=AD---

"I worked with one shelter where I bathed and groomed
every adoptable dog on intake. I frankly felt that the
effort/benefit equation was not balanced for some of the
older/ill poodle/terrier mixes we got in badly matted condition.

Should I have refused to groom them?

Or even more pertinent - I was one of the people who
had to make the euthanasia decisions at that shelter."

Lynn K.

Baghdad Bob Baghdadbob wrote in message
news:04591a2c5d469ef78d35c89ed4ed58f7@TeraNews.. .

Lynn, looks like he got you there if these
quotes are true.

In the posts below you take responsibility for
making those calls.

In your post above, you state you do not
make those calls.

Which one is it?

------------------------------=AD------------

THAT'S INSANE, AIN'T IT...

does not meet the standards of the breed,

A dog is a dog.

and ultimately the pet will not meet the expectations
of the buyer

Well THAT only happens if the critter was UNFIT or mishandled.

This sells shelter animals pretty short.

You mean those shelters you and your PERSONAL REAL
LIFE PAL lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" and racetrack silly
and tara o. aka tee are involved in NETWORKIN, Master
Of Deception blankman?:

"I'll bet you don't know a thing about me.
I volunteered as assistant to the euthanasia
tech at our local shelter for a while, and
I know a bit about overpopulation and unwanted
animals.

This however has nothing at all to do with
responsible breeders, because responsible
breeders don't contribute to that problem,"
Mustang Sally.


"After Numerous Training Classes, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness," racetrack silly.

THe promotion of shelter animals as substandard and
unworthy causes so many people to bypass perfectly
wonderful shelter animals. It causes people to
evaluate "quality" as if cost and pedigree are its
measure.

That so?

I'll be you've never had to put down litters of
beautiful labrador puppies? If you had did, maybe
you'd be singing a different tune?

"Actually, have held them for the tech to euth, and
put their bodies in the trash bag and in the freezer
for the trash company to come and dispose of.

No different tune," ~Emily

By that measure there are, unfortunately, animals
of very high "quality" that end up in shelters.

Yeah. You and your "SHELTER / RESCUE" pals GET PAID
to TAKE THEM IN on accHOWENT of they don't know HOWE
to teach folks to rehabilitate their own dogs and
SELL THEM to folks who can tolerate or jerk choke
and shock the dog enough to make them LOVE their
new HOWESES, isn't that correct, Master Of Deception
blankman.

The problem with dogs in the shelter is
simply that they are IN the shelter,

No, the PROBLEM with the SHELTERS is the MENTAL
CASES like your personal real life pals who HURT
INTIMDIDATE and MURDER innocent dumb critters and
LIE abHOWET IT.

LIKE THIS:

"You Lying Sack Of Dung.When Have I Ever Said
Anything About Using A Prong Collar, Or Any Collar
Correction At All, To Make Dogs Friendly To House
Cats? Don't bother. The answer is never," lying "I
LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.

lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn writes about kats and dogs:

"This Article Is Something We've Put Together
For SF GSD Rescue

From: Lynn Kosmakos )
Subject: I have a dog he has cats
Date: 1999/11/20

wrote:
How can I get him to quit chasing the cats.

Okay - this is going to be a bit loooong - Lynn K.

"Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog. Don't
forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong works
better than a choke with less chance of injury to the dog in
this situation.

Electronics can be used to create an aversion to cats, but
should be used under the direction of a trainer who knows how
to instruct the owner in their proper use. Electronics can
take the form of shock, sonic or citronella collars. At that
time the owner will train with electronics instead of food or
whatever other reward system was being used."

8) Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog.
Don't forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong
works better than a choke with less chance of injury to the
dog in this situation. Have the dog in a sit-stay next to
you with most of the slack out of the leash and let the cat
walk through the room and up to the dog if it wishes (this is
why you have the dog muzzled).

If the dog makes an aggressive move towards the
cat, it must be corrected strongly with both your
voice and the collar.

This is important - the correction must be physically
very strong - not a nag. (PS: not many dogs need
to be corrected at all)."

and that there are too many of them.

INDEEDY. Like Boxer Rescue Of N.C.. Your pal tara o.
aka tee MURDERED her own Boxer Rescue dog Summer on
accHOWENT Of she couldn't train IT and she's got the
SAME PROBLEM with her REPLACEMENT Boxer Rescue Dog.

Seems you RESCUE and SHELTER folks are hurtin
intimidating and MURDERIN dogs and LYIN abHOWET it.

The difference between breeders whose dogs end up in
shelters and those who don't has more to do with initial
placement and buyer support than the "quality" of the dogs.

Well THAT AIN'T TRUE, Master Of Deception blankman
given that MOST dogs are DUMPED for behavior problems
caused by abusing dogs JUST LIKE HOWE your SHELTER
and RESCUE PALS got a BAD HABIT of doin...

That is why the qualities of the responsible breeder

Like ~emily, Master Of Deception blankman?

I'll be you've never had to put down litters of
beautiful labrador puppies? If you had did, maybe
you'd be singing a different tune?

"Actually, have held them for the tech to euth, and
put their bodies in the trash bag and in the freezer
for the trash company to come and dispose of.

No different tune," ~Emily

must include more than winning shows and some health testing.
Neither of those actions protect the dog from shelter dumping.

What PROTECTS the dogs from your DOG ABUSING MENTAL
CASE SHELTER PALS Master Of Deception blankman?

And while I'm a strong proponent of breeding for good health,

Your last DEAD DOG DIED from STRESS INDUCED AUTO-IMMUNE
DIS-EASE aka The Puppy Wizard's SYNDDROME {); ~ )

appropriate temperament,

ALL TEMPERAMENT PROBLEMS ARE CAUSED BY MISHANDLING.

and preditcable characteristics these factors
merely influence the risks.

You mean jerking choking shocking bribing beating
crating intimidating don't INFLUENCE RISKS? Here's
HOWER GREY HOWEND RESCUE DOG LOVER:

"Sally Hennessey" wrote in message
...

Nope. No more than you'd convince Patch that
prongs and e-collars, in the right hands, are not
intrinsically abusive; or that dogs trained properly
with prongs or e-collars are not fearful, in pain, or
intimidated; or that any one of us here knows our
own dogs and their reactions better than someone
who has never seen them or us...hmmm.

I'm starting to see some similarities here.

Sally Hennessey

Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001
Subject: shock collars

Sally Hennessey wrote in message
...

Aside from being incredibly offensive and self-righteous,
this post shows and absence of knowledge in the differences
in dogs' temperaments, or perhaps a lack of ability to perceive
same. The fact that you, Alison, have never met a dog to whom
corrections and discomfort, even pain, were unimportant does
not mean that such dogs do not exist.

What it means is that you don't know as much about dogs
as you think you do, and you surely don't know a damn
thing about Harlan or anyone else's dog here.

I had a Dalmatian that would instigate fights with one
of her housemates; that dog had no fear or anything,
and pain incurred during a fight meant nothing to her.

I know that that dog is not unique, and I'm sure many
people here can tell similar stories. The fact that you,
Alison, continue to say things to people such as what
you said to Theresa about causing her dog to suffer
(at least I guess that's what you meant by "you cause
your dog suffers" - - must be the King's English you
guys talk about over there) means that you are an
ignorant, arrogant, insensitive person who is not worth
further notice.
Sally Hennessey

There are perfectly heathly excellent pets in shelters,

Yeah? HOWE COME your pals HURT THEM?

and there are carefully bred dogs who nevertheless
have poor temperament, or lousy genetic health.

No, you AIN'T blamin the DOG noMOORE you freakin mental case.

The problem with the animals in shelters is

YOUR PALS ABUSE THEM.

not that they are "sub-standard" but that they are there at all.

Most of them are THERE on accHOWENT of they been MISHANDLED

If you want to appeal to the thinking of unfair shifting
of costs, the problem with the shelters is that breeders
take the profit but not the responsiblity for the existence
of their "product."

Well you SCAM ARTIST DHOWEBLE DIP comin an goin
hand over fist you GET PAID to TAKE IN dogs and
you GET PAID TO SELL DOGS... for a WEE BIT OF MONEY.

And you GET PAID TO MURDER DOGS.

There are purebred animal shelters all over North
America spanning every breed of dog, cat, horse,
pig and more. It is THEY who will be the final
recipients of these pets.

That so? You mean on accHOWENT of they wasn't
under the GUIDANCE of EXXXPERTS like you and
tara o. aka tee and racetrack silly and lying
"I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn or your punk thug coward
mental case pal lying frosty dahl who DISCOVERED
CANIBALISM in her own dogs when she LEFT a new
mom unatended so she could MAKE MONEY?

Not sure? Think I'm story telling?

We KNOW SOMEWON IS LYIN.

just ask any one of them or spend a day at any one
of the to see exactly what happens to the "junk"
pets you are trying to promote.

Let's take a LOOK at who is EVALUATING and TRAINING
and HEELPING those DESPERATE critters, shall we?

The problem with the method of sale is not that the
animals are "junk" but that it tends to result in
the animal being sold in a way with a high risk of
failure.

You mean like tara o. aka tee's current and last
DEAD Boxer Rescue dog and racetrack silly's DEAd
RESCUE DOG SHE MURDERED?

Without the pre-screening of a responsible breeder

Your pals HURT INTIMIDATE and MURDER DOGS AND LIE
abHOWET IT as YOU JUST SEEN...

there is little opportunity to educate buyers
out of unwise choices.

We're makin a start on that right here.

Most of these buyers don't know what they don't know.

We'll WIZE THEM UP. Here's your personal real life
pal lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn's REAL LIFE PARTNER
IN RESCUE:

"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.

You think HURTING a HUNTING DOG to
MAKE IT HUNT is NECESSARY???

They won't learn it from such sales.

LET'S PREY.

Without the continuing support of the responsible breeder

Like ~emily and kwbrown and dianne s?

there is a higher risk of failure.

INDEED. It's ALL in The Amazing Puppy Wizard's Archives.

The respobsible breeder provides knowledgable
information and resources to the buyer.

Yeah? Your pals are dog abusers and liars and
MENTAL CASES by their own quoted case histories.

LIKE THIS:

"J1Boss" wrote in message
...

He was next to me and I could see his neck
muscles pulsing. He didn't even blink an eye.

Janet Boss
"sionnach" wrote in message
...

"J1Boss" wrote in message
...

I can't imagine needing anything higher
than a 5 with it, even with an insensitive
dog like a Lab.

An INSENSITIVE DOG???

THAT'S INSANE, AIN'T IT.

HERE'S HOWE COME:

WORDS OF WISDOM
from our own Lynn Kosmakos
1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of Zoloft every day
For Twenty Years

I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIUM

"I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder (manic-depression)
requiring 1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of Zoloft every
day.

I, also, care about dogs and use this forum to learn
more, while happily sharing pertinent information
I have learned. But if I were ever to post such sh*t,
I would hope that every other reader of this group
would be rightfully outraged."

"Community is an evolutionary thing that we earn
the right to participate in by observing the
easily understood rules and contributing to in
constructive ways."

Lynn K.

---------------------------

SEE? SEE? SEE?

Otherwise the buyer, again, doesn't know what they
don't know and is left floundering or relying on
other's sincere but misguided information.

BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!

YOU GOT BALLS!

The cost is not only the life of the animal,

YOUR PALS MURDER DOGS.

but the emotions of the people.

Oh, we wouldn't wanna hurt noWON's feelins.

Getting the wrong pet and then dumping it

That's what your pals do with the RESCUE
dogs the FOSTER.

REMEBER, Master Of Deception blankman?:

"Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution
Will Adore His Owner," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn.

"Unfortunately, some confrontation is necessary,
just to be able to handle the dogs. For example,
we need to crate train a dog immediately because
they are usually in need of medical care and they
are in foster homes with other dogs.

It's a safety necessity," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.

lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.

- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.

Lynn K.

often has profound adverse effects on children.

You mean like tara o. aka tee's daughter who's
takin ANTI PSYCHOTIC DRUGS since first grade
on accHOWENT of her BOXER RESCUE MOMMY MURDERED
her own DEAD DOG on accHOWET of she couldn't
stop jerking choking crating spraying aversives
in her face and shocking and MURDERIN IT?

It can shatter them, or make them emotonally hard,
neither of which is good for society.

BWEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!

Most of you MENTAL CASES HURT INTIMDIATE and MURDER
dogs and LIE abHOWET it and BLAME the DOG.

I hope a law exsists out there somewhere that will
let you see the light.

The existence or non-existence of law is not a very
good way of evaluating the rightness or wrongness of
an action. I prefer education to law making.

What's WRONG with AUCTIONS?

You're only WORRIED abHOWET COMPETITION.

THEY SELL CRITTERS YOU WANT TO SELL IN YOUR NETWORKIN BUSINESS.

I will not spend one penny, nickel or dime to support this site.

Whatever. Let's get to the REAL PROBLEM. YOU.

Shame on all of you! I know I'm not alone in my feelings either.
It won't surprise me or any of the readers here if this message is remo=
ved
either.

When presenting argument it is always useful to pay
attention to the beliefs and concerns of those to
whom you are arguing.

Yeah, JUST DISREGARD THE QUOTED ABUSES AND LIES.

If they regard companion animals as merely livestock
then the emotional plug is hardly going to be persuasive.

BWEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!

The department of agriculture does a FINE job
regulating AUCTIONS and interstate shipment of
critters, Master Of Deception blankman.

I so often see people arguing that the dog is "sub-
standard" merely because it fails to meet breed
standard.

Like all them DEAD DOGS your PALS enterTRAINED TO DEATH.

In most cases this is offered in circumstances where
that quality is simply unimportant to the person looking
for a companion animal.

BWEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!

I'm a believer that predictable characteristics

Like LIES ABUSE and MENTAL ILLNESS.

is a good thing to improve success in companion animal adoptions.

PROBLEMO, eh?

But I suggest that for most people the important
predictable characteristics are somewhat broader.

That so?

They want good temperament, good health, the expected coat and size.

Those are ALL VASTLY GREATER INFLUENCED BY APUPRIATE HANDLING
TENDER LOVING CARE and FRESH HEELTHFUL DIET than your BUNK.

They want the behavior to resemble breed descriptions

You mean descritptions by your EXXXPERT ETHICKAL BREEDER?

and they want the appearance to resemble breed descriptions.

And that's the shootin match, Master Of Dceptin blankman.

They, for the most part, will never notice variations that
would get the dog laughed out of the conformation ring.

Sez you? You're blowin smoke up HOWER arses again.

The point is that when you argue "well bred" to the
person looking for a pet, or looking to market pets,
these are the concerns to keep in mind.

BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!

It doesn't hurt, once you have addressed those concerns,
to point out that to keep those "acceptable" qualities it
is neccessary for the breeder to hold to somewhat higher
standards.

Sez you and your ETHICKAL PALS.

The idea being is that if you breed for better than
the buyer needs and you don't quite make the mark you
are likely to end up with good enough.

Well then HOWE COME your NETWORKING pal dianne s
who SELLS PUPPIES ON THE NET, is "BREEDING UP" for
BETTER SHOULDER HEAD NECK STANCE, and BRED to an
"unproven" untitled un EVERY THING puppy mill stud?

BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAAHAHAHHAHAA!!!

But if you only breed for good enough and you don't
make the mark then you end up with not good enough.

YOU'RE REPEATIN YOURSELF AGAIN.

And when arguing to people who don't much care about
the animals themselves there are often decent arguments
in the area of concerns they do care about -

You mean like a SAFE HOWES for dogs?:

"Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution
Will Adore His Owner," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn.

"Unfortunately, some confrontation is necessary,
just to be able to handle the dogs. For example,
we need to crate train a dog immediately because
they are usually in need of medical care and they
are in foster homes with other dogs.

It's a safety necessity," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.

lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.

- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.

Lynn K.


"I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in
one shelter.) But their ability to set their own
schedules and duties causes a great deal of
scheduling overhead.

And it takes effort and thought to ensure that
volunteers get the meaningful experience that
they work for.

Someone has to be responsible for that
Volunteer Program, and it is best done
by a non-volunteer."

Lynn K.
------------------------------=AD---

From: sionnach )
Subject: Correct use of prong collar
Date: 2001-05-05 13:03:14 PST

And Sally responded:
Who said that? I would never do or recommend
that, and neither would most of the regulars
on here. Sally Hennessey

I've posted my entire quote, since Patch failed
to do so. Take it out of context and you'd think
I was flinging puppies across the room!

here's what I said (keep in mind that we're
talking about a 12 week old ~25# FCR puppy):

A small scruff shake is appropriate if he's
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^=AD=AD=AD=AD^^^^^^^^ ^^
very persistant.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Um, may I suggest a re-wording that might make
it clearer- given that "scruff shake" is too easily
misinterpreted as "pick the puppy up by the scruff
of the neck and shake the puppy in the air"?

I think I'd phrase it something like "if the puppy is very
persistant, it can be appropriate to take hold of the
loose skin at the back of the neck and give a slight
shake to the *skin*".

Janet's not talking about actually shaking
the puppy, which I think we ALL agree is
abusive."

"J1Boss" wrote in message
...

He was next to me and I could see his neck
muscles pulsing. He didn't even blink an eye.

Janet Boss

"sionnach" wrote in message
...

"J1Boss" wrote in message
...

I can't imagine needing anything higher
than a 5 with it, even with an insensitive
dog like a Lab.

An INSENSITIVE DOG???

I can't remember what model of Innotek I have, but
I had apointer ignore a neck-muscle-pulsing 9.

From: sighthounds etc.
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 15:15:07 -0400
Subject: oops another puppy wizzard question [Jerry]

On 10 Jul 2003 17:28:40 GMT, Dimpled Chad
wrote:
On 10 Jul 2003, Gwen Watson opined:

Dimpled Chad wrote:

The [Jerry] tag is to aid people who don't want to read the
conversation you have with him, and to keep *you* from being filtered
out should you want to participate in conversation with the others.
This being usenet, you are welcome to post any way you want, of course.
The tag is requested nettiquette, and not that onerous.

Chad

Although in some ways since so many ppl are threatened to be plonked
if they don't use the tag I sort of see it more like "dictatorship"
than an actual nice request. More like "if you don't buddy, you won't
get to play in our sandbox, neener, neener. So if ya want hang with
the "in" crowd ya best do as you are *told* and add the tag are
ya won't be playing. JMO

And I just don't see it that way. *shrug* Some folk like to interact with
Jerry. That's fine. If it gets too prolific, the crap to info ratio goes
through the roof. The tag helps minimize that for those who can't stand the
noise; otherwise they KF the people making it. I don't see it as a threat =
at
all. No one is forcing anyone to kf anyone or to put any tag anywhere.

I agree. Whether or not Jerry is mentally ill or just a giant
asshat, it's mighty annoying, to say the least, when he pulls up posts
from 3 years ago and replies to them. It's way beyond annoying (to
me) when he makes inane statements about all dogs being alike, all
behavior problems being caused by mishandling, health problems and
illnesses being caused by stress which is caused by choke collars,
etc. I don't want to see that stuff, or even have to wade through it,
and I don't want to see responses to it. People who want to read it
are welcome to it. I choose to killfile it, along with anyone who
doesn't want to use the tag. I don't see it as a dictatorship, and I
certainly don't belong to any clique or club. It just makes life here
a little easier.

Mustang Sally

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D


cost to taxpayers, cost to society, emotional and physical
harm to humans, lack of meeting buyer expectations ....

Looks like you are the bum interested in PROFIT
MOORE than the WELFARE of innocent dumb critters
your SHELTER RESCUE PROFITEERS HURT INTIMDIATE
and MURDER, Master Of Deception blankman.

Anyway -

You mean anyHOWE, Master Of Deception blankman.

please - when complaining about behavior of people like this

You mean the lyin dog abusing punk thug coward mental
cases you call ETHICKAL breeders shelter rescue and
foster care dog lovers, Master Of Deception blankman?

please take care that the arguement does not
result in bad things for the animals themselves.

You mean LIKE THIS?:

"I do not own an aggressive dog. If I did, I'd put
a bullet in it's head.

My BEST agility dog has been in training for damned
near 2 years, and still hasn't trialed, due to her
intense prey drive.

I compete where there is frequently no fences,
and dogs are competing in adjoining rings.

My BEST agility dog has been in training for damned
near 2 years, and still hasn't trialed, due to her
intense prey drive.

Whatever good I am able to do for these beloved dogs
will backfire if one of mine tears up or eats a fluffybutt.

My BEST agility dog has been in training for damned
near 2 years, and still hasn't trialed, due to her
intense prey drive.

I take that responsibility VERY seriously.

My BEST agility dog has been in training for damned
near 2 years, and still hasn't trialed, due to her
intense prey drive.

Until I am confident that *I* own that drive,
she will not be brought out. Period.

My BEST agility dog has been in training for damned
near 2 years, and still hasn't trialed, due to her
intense prey drive.

I TRAIN dogs. I train in agility, obedience, and earth dog.

My BEST agility dog has been in training for damned
near 2 years, and still hasn't trialed, due to her
intense prey drive.

If you'll read my sig *this* time, the titles you
see are behavior certificates, and agility and earth
dog titles.

My BEST agility dog has been in training for damned
near 2 years, and still hasn't trialed, due to her
intense prey drive.

I'm pulled by the young adults with TONS of
performance potential."

BWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAHAHAHAHHA=ADHAAAA!!!

Painting the shelter dogs as "sub-standard" contributes
to the problem. It is that notion is what sends people
looking for *any* purebred dog, without an understanding
of what is the cause of animals in the shelter.

The CAUSE is YOU and YOUR PALS who HURT INTIMIDATE
and MURDER dogs and LIE abHOWET IT for PROFIT.

--
Diane Blackman
SNIP CRAP SPAM LINKS

Fantasy Island Shelter Rescue Foster Care Givers Weekend!

De Plane! De Plane Boss! De Plane Boss! De Plane! De Plane!

Oh shadddup Tatoo you skeevy little hype. That damned
puddle jumper SHOWES up here abHOWETS EVERY weekend. You
can HEAR if from MILES away carrying HOWER auspiciHOWES
guests and a WEE BIT OF MONEY for HOWER coffers.

Fortunately this weekend's visitors are FLUSH with OTHER
PEOPLE'S hard earned dough so it'll be EZ to fleece them
DHOWEN like spring lambs {); ~ ) .

De Plane Boss! De Plane! De Plane!

Oh Tatoo, PLEASE, you're giving Mr. Roarke a freakin
headache. Chill HOWET you wretched little cuss or we
may have to do some OBEDIENCE DRILLS with you.

O=2EK. Boss, I'm SORRY I'm SORRY I'm SORRY Boss. Honest.
HOWE abHOWET I go get some refreshements for HOWER guests?

No Tattoo. These are SPECIAL guests, they're HOWER RESCUE
and SHELTER SAVIOURS. They have SPECIAL needs requiring
individual condiditions, shall we say, SACRIFICES, to make.

This is going to be a VERY SPECIAL weekend, Tatoo.

Have you finished preparing quarters for HOWER guests
Tatoo? They'll be VERY SLEEPY from their medications
when they arrive and will no DHOWET be looking forward
to some rest in their rooms.

Si, Boss. Si. I've had special boxes tailor made to fit
each individual as you sez according to their measurements.
Boss? Boss? Are you SHORE they LIKE sleeping in little boxes?

But of CURSE, Tattoo. You'll NOTICE they NEVER MESS in them.
They ONLY tend to their own personal needs while walking on
leash or in the group play pen dragging their leashes behind
them in case they need some corrections. You'll see, Tattoo.
Very special guests, you'll see... you'll see.

Boss! Boss! Here they come! Here they come! Here they come!

Oh STUFF IT Tattoo. Go grab a leash and pronged spiked
pinch choke collar and COME WITH ME, I'll need you in
case any of them become DOMINANT and try to hurt each other.

Better go back and grab that shock collar as well, Tattoo,
can't take too many chances when 'LIVES DEPEND ON US to SAVE
THEM', eh Tattoo?

But Boss! Boss! Do you REALLY THINK locking them in
small boxes and jerking choking and shocking them is
gonna SAVE THEIR LIVES?

Nooo, Tattoo. It'll teach them to RESPECT HOWER AUTHORITY.

WE will SAVE THE LIVES, Tattoo... just you and Mr. Roarke.

TRUST ME, Tattoo. This is gonna be a VERY SPECIAL weekend
for HOWER Shelter and Rescue Dog Lovers, Tattoo {); ~ )

But Boss? Boss? Boss?

NHOWE WHAT, Tattoo?

You sez these are DOG people? Yet they HAVE NO DOGS
with them? Are they coming on a second plane, Boss?
The Plane! The Plane! The Plane, Boss! The Plane!

No Tattoo, that's the puddle jumper LEAVIN. HOWER
guests have made arrangements for their dogs to
be kept in city P-HOWENDS where they've only got
72 HOWERS to live, GUARANTEEING HOWER guests will
FINISH their Fantasies in a timely manner. O.K.
Tattoo, we've got to take care of HOWER guests,
machnell, machsnell Tattoo.

O=2EK. O.K. Boss. O.K. O.K.

WELCOME To Fantasy Island Shelter Rescue Foster
Care Givers Weekend! I'm your host Mr. Roarke,
and this is my erstwhile assistant Tattoo. DON'T
LOOK AT HIM, he's VERY SENSITIVE.

But Boss? Boss? I'm NOT sensitive. People ALWAYS
look at me, I LIKE that, Boss. People are NICE.

Shhhh, Tattoo. This is a VERY SPECIAL weekend.
Just do as I've instructed you PLEASE or you'll
BLOW IT and they'll LEAVE us and take their OTHER
PEOPLE'S money with them.

Ohhhh, I see, a SCAM, eh Boss? It's abHOWET time!

What shall I do?

Tattoo? You see that big stupid lookin WON over
there wearing the sneer on her face? THAT'S Master
Of Decepton blankman, WON of the ringleaders. Let's
take her first, but BE CAREFUL Tattoo, she's slippery
and dangerHOWES despite that off puttin stupid ignorant
look she's wearing under that sneer. Better go back and
grab that rabies pole, this might be MOORE difficult
than Mr. Roarke thought, just judging by her catatonic
stare right through you despite she was asked not to look.

But Boss? I DON'T MIND her LOOKING!

SHADDDUP Tattoo! We're TRYING to TRAIN them! Just PLAY
ALONG so we can SET HER UP for a CORRECTION. Quick Tattoo,
gimme that shock collar FAST. NHOWE slowly walk arHOWEND
and as she stares at you I'll be able to sneak up behind
her and strap this on her.

Oh? You want the strap on, Boss?

NO Tattoo, THAT'S for malinda. I'm talking abHOWET
strappin on this shock collar while you DISTRACT
her... the SHOCK will be her REWARD for NOT LOOKIN
at you someMOORE. QUICK! Make your move NHOWE, Tattoo!

Boss? Can I have the rabies pole, she looks like a MEAN WON.

Yes Tattoo, it's a familiar tool to her, she'll RESPECT
you for THAT. Go for it, Tattoo, but HURRY PLEASE! HURRY!

"Unfortunately, some confrontation is necessary,
just to be able to handle the dogs. For example,
we need to crate train a dog immediately because
they are usually in need of medical care and they
are in foster homes with other dogs.

It's a safety necessity," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.

lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.

- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.

Lynn K.

BARK! ZAP! SCREAM... ZAP ... SCREAM... ZAP... SCREAM...
ZAP... SCREAM... ZAP... SCREAM... ZAP ... SCREAM

Date: 2002-08-30 04:24:13 PST
"Susan Fraser" wrote in message
news: ...

Did you try it on your throat? Not very pleasant.

Umm, yes. As a matter of fact, I did. It the sensation
is actually much milder than it is on the palm, which
has sweat glands and so conducts more.

You're full of crap, susan.

"JC" wrote in messagenews:
...

A friend of mine told this story about his
experience with a shock-collar:

Jim's sister-in-law had a shock collar she wanted to use
on her dog stop it from barking.

Not being very technical, she brought it over for Jim to
assemble and adjust.

Jim got it all put together and decided to try it on
himself to see which setting would be most appropriate.

With the collar around his neck, set on minimum, Jim tried
a little bark... woof.

Nothing.... Woof Woof. Nothing....

Bark. Nothing....

Bark Bark.

Nothing...

BARK!

ZAP!

The collar worked!

Unfortunately, the zap was painful enough to make Jim scream
with pain, which the collar interpreted as another bark, which
lead to another ZAP!

Which made Jim scream again...

ZAP...

SCREAM...

ZAP...

SCREAM...

Eventually, Jim got the collar off but it never
survived the chance to end up on the dog.

(Names have been changed to protect the stupid) : )

-----------------------

GOOD BOY, Tattoo! O.K., NHOWE INTO the box with her.

But BOSS! BOSS!

BE CAREFUL Tattoo, she's been known to escape. Soon
as we get the rest of these Bozo's into their boxes
we'll be able to EAT and have some FUN till it's time
to take them all HOWET for a break and some obedience
drills. You might think this is all abHOWET dominance,
but I can assure you Tatto, IT'S NOT. Don't infer from
that description that force is an intrinsic part of it,
though, because it isn't.

I know that that is what you are trying to get at,
but you'd be very wrong.

"Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution
Will Adore His Owner," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn.

"Unfortunately, some confrontation is necessary,
just to be able to handle the dogs. For example,
we need to crate train a dog immediately because
they are usually in need of medical care and they
are in foster homes with other dogs.

It's a safety necessity," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.

lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.

- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.

Lynn K.


"Lynn K." wrote in message
om...

"Jerry Howe" wrote in message
...

Hello People,

"Huh? I've Never Reeled In A Dog In My Life.
I Don't Like The Long Line Method And Don't
Use It." lynn k.

Read the following and then let's discuss proofing.

Maybe you want to read it again, Jerry. I don't use the
long line method of teaching a recall. You know, the
old "give the command and reel the dog in" thing.

From: Lynn Kosmakos )
Subject: dog comes when he feels like it
Date: 1999/05/21

"A.Waugh" wrote:
Does this mean no trips to the fenced off-leash dog park ?
At what age should a dog be trained 100% ?
What about socialization?

I've found dog parks to be great places for proofing the
recall, even with young puppies. Let the pup play with
other pups, while on a long line.

Call the pup, reeling in if necessary, and praise the heck out
of him, then let him go play again. The reason this works so
well at the dog park is that the pup learns that leaving the
fun to obey the command doesn't mean the fun is over. A very
good thing to learn early.

Timing is critical here, because what you want
is for him to think about escaping, maybe even
start, but still have time to give the command
and have him decide to come back to you before
he hits the end of the long line.

The very 1st thing is to secure her while you're training
so she can't chase when you are preoccupied and can't
work with her.

And, yes, I've had more than a few "come to Jesus
meetings" with dogs over willful disobedience.
Example - pup who knows full well what a recall is
hits adolesence and decides that the recall is optional.

Putting him back on a long line and doing 5 fast
recalls is a "come to Jesus meeting". Or if he
suddenly decides that he can release himself from
a down/stay after being solid at it for 5 months,
and turns it into a catch-me game, a sharp downward
collar correction as you put him back into position
is a "come to Jesus meeting".

Don't infer from that description that force is an
intrinsic part of it, though, because it isn't.

I know that that is what you are trying to get at,
but you'd be very wrong.

Lynn K

BWEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAAAA!!!

"You Lying Sack Of Dung.When Have I Ever Said
Anything About Using A Prong Collar, Or Any Collar
Correction At All, To Make Dogs Friendly To House
Cats? Don't bother. The answer is never," lying "I
LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.

lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn writes about kats and dogs:

"This Article Is Something We've Put Together
For SF GSD Rescue

From: Lynn Kosmakos )
Subject: I have a dog he has cats
Date: 1999/11/20
wrote:

How can I get him to quit chasing the cats.

Okay - this is going to be a bit loooong - Lynn K.

"Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog. Don't
forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong works
better than a choke with less chance of injury to the dog in
this situation.

Electronics can be used to create an aversion to cats, but
should be used under the direction of a trainer who knows how
to instruct the owner in their proper use. Electronics can
take the form of shock, sonic or citronella collars. At that
time the owner will train with electronics instead of food or
whatever other reward system was being used."

8) Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog.
Don't forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong
works better than a choke with less chance of injury to the
dog in this situation. Have the dog in a sit-stay next to
you with most of the slack out of the leash and let the cat
walk through the room and up to the dog if it wishes (this is
why you have the dog muzzled).

If the dog makes an aggressive move towards the
cat, it must be corrected strongly with both your
voice and the collar.

This is important - the correction must be physically
very strong - not a nag. (PS: not many dogs need
to be corrected at all)."

WORDS OF WISDOM
from our own Lynn Kosmakos
1200mg Of Lithium And 50 mg Of Zoloft Every Day
For Twenty Years

I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIUM

"I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder (manic-depression)
requiring 1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of Zoloft every day.
I, also, care about dogs and use this forum to learn more,
while happily sharing pertinent information I have learned.

But if I were ever to post such sh*t, I would hope that every
other reader of this group would be rightfully outraged."

"Community is an evolutionary thing that we earn
the right to participate in by observing the easily
understood rules and contributing to in constructive ways."

Lynn K.

---------------------

"The day may come when the rest of the animal creation
may acquire those rights
which never could have been withholden from them
but by the hand of tyranny.
The question is not can they REASON,
nor can they TALK,
but can they SUFFER?" -
- Jeremy Bentham

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised
for the good of its victims,
may be the most oppressive.
Those who torment us for our own good
will torment us without end,
for they do so with the approval of
their own conscience." -
- C.S. Lewis.

"Death is better, a milder fate than tyranny",
Aeschylus (525BC-456BC),
Agamemnon.

The greatness of a nation and its moral progress
can be judged by the way
its animals are treated." ~ Mohandas
Gandhi -- Adapted with permission from his FREE
copy of The Puppy Wizard's FREE Wits' End Dog
Training Method Manual. }TPW ; ~ )

Force training JERRYIZES dogs...
and GETS THEM DEAD.

All truth passes through three stages.
First, it is ridiculed.
Second, it is violently opposed.
Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
-Arthur Schopenhauer

"Thank you for fighting the fine fight--
even tho it's a hopeless task,
in this system of things.
As long as man is ruling man,
there will be animals (and humans!)
abused and neglected. :-(
Your student," Juanita.

"If you've got them by the balls
their hearts and minds
will follow,"
John Wayne.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard. {}; ~ )

HOWEDY culprit,

culprit wrote:
"Aimee S" wrote in message
...

Can anyone give me ideas on how to get my 5 month
old Aussie mix to do better when he is restrained??

Yeah. culprit's gonna DEMONSTRATE.

He is nasty when restrained, growls and trys
to bite. he's fine otherwise, very friendly and
very playful.

Perhaps she's got a seven thousand dollar kat?

what do you mean "restrained"? on leash? in
a crate? tied out in the yard? behind a fence?

-kelly

You mean like your shock fence, culprit?:

From: "culprit"
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 2004 14:15:46 -0700
Subject: another tragedy

today Mo-kitty woke up in a large spot of blood. his
wound had been bleeding all night. i took him to the
vet, who said that this was not abnormal, did some blood
tests, and sent him home with me. since he's not allowed
to groom himself, he had quite a bit of blood on him, which
i was going to clean up later.

i dropped of Mo upstairs, as usual, and headed down to
let the dogs out of their crates.

for some reason i'll never know, Mo followed me downstairs.
he never does this. and i didn't hear him coming. however,
the dogs did. they ran to investigate, and found a strange
smelling, bloody cat in their house.

needless to say, they attacked him. poor Mo had that stupid
cone on his head and couldn't see to escape. he was weak and
sick and didn't have a chance. he didn't survive the trip back
to the vets. he died in my lap on the way there.

i'm in shock right now. everyone is telling me to get the
dogs out of the house to deal with my grief, but how can i
deal without them? they didn't understand that what they
did is wrong, they're not people.

they smelled blood and instinct took over. i thought about
getting rid of them for about two seconds. but i can't. i
love them too much. and i need them more than ever right now.

poor dogs, they know something is wrong, and they're all
cuddled up to me. they don't even know that they caused
my suffering. i'm not angry at them. just sad at Mo's
passing. after all that work to make him well, for him
to die in this way... it's like a cosmic joke. like a
bad movie.

i'm emotionally torn. i'm numb. and i'm so very tired.

-kelly

Are Radio Fences Inhumane? Experiences?

HOWEDY frank1492,

"frank1492" wrote in message
...

Just getting ready to buy one and would like
your opinions. Thanks.
Frank

Here's the IN-complete story (short version) of
HOWE culprit aka kelly aka metta (metta is culprit
aka kelly's aka on the MENTAL PERSONS news
groups) TRAINED HER DOGS to MURDER HER
DEAD KAT:

-kelly

From: culprit )
Subject: Video clip......."Nero" practicing bark alert,
while walking backwards
Date: 2004-06-05 18:53:50 PST

"micha el" wrote in message
...

Anyway, contrary to your PR, this is what
it felt like to me when I got shocked by
Hope's collar.

It felt like a bomb going off in my
hand and forearm.

there are different brands of fences, and each
one has a variety of settings, set to the dog's
specific reaction. Lola's collar is set to give
more juice than Manu's, because she's more
likely to ignore the buzz, whereas Manu wants
nothing to do with it. i have no idea what brand or
setting Hope's collar was set at.

there's also the fact that Hope has lots of thick
fur and a good fat layer (to keep her warm in the
water) and my dogs are scrawny and nekkid.

so maybe Hope needs a higher setting to work
for her. it's really hard to say without comparing
the collars directly.

and you're right, if Lola really wants out of the yard,
she'll run through the fence. the annoyance doesn't
keep her in, which is why she's always supervised
outdoors.

Manu, OTOH, is happy to stay as far from the
fence as he can. what can i say, he's part eevil
pit bull and part fraidy cat.

-kelly

From: culprit )
Subject: we got "the fence"
Date: 2004-02-14 15:48:26 PST

after having the appraisal for the real fencing coming out at
over $11,000, we decided to put up an invisible fence, just
until we can save some cash for the real one. after we put up
the real fence, the invisible one will probably remain as a
"fail safe" to keep the dogs off the real fence.

yes, i'm aware of most of the cons, i've always been
against them myself, until i talked to a lot of people
who have them, and had the invisible fence trainer
come out to meet the dogs.

i'll only be letting them out when i'm home and can keep a
direct eye on them, and we've discussed it with all of the
neighbors, and they've committed to containing their dogs,
so they won't come into my yard unless invited.

anyway, we had it installed outside today, and started the
indoor part of training. we decided to put the training fence
on the stairway, since the cats like to hang out up there and
the dogs aren't allowed to go up.

we put up a baby gate just past the invisible barrier,
so that they can't go through it, even if they want to.

i tried the collar on myself before we let the dogs try it,
and while it is uncomfortable, it's not painful, and i'm
comfortable with the dogs wearing it.

we thought Manu would require a higher setting than Lola,
because she's pretty sensitive to correction, and he is a big
meathead who doesn't feel a thing. this played out with the
first part of training, with Lola turning around and leaving
the steps at the first buzz, and Manu just standing there,
wagging his tail, like he didn't feel a thing.

we upped the setting three more times before Manu
"got it", and then he immediately turned around and
didn't go up the steps at all after that.

the weird thing is that Lola, who was clearly
bothered by the experience, kept trying to go
up to get the cat's area anyway.

this confirmed something i had suspected.

Lola may be more sensitive to correction, but
she also has more "drive", and will put up with
something she dislikes longer than Manu will.

Lola sat on the steps, cycling through the collar's
three 10 second failsafe cycles, then tried to climb
over the baby gate as though nothing had happened.

we decided to up the correction one setting, with the
theory that she'd find it so unpleasant it would stop
her from climbing the steps, then we'd turn it back
down once she realized she shouldn't be up there.

unfortunately, she never did realize it, so we had
to leave it on the higher setting.

so hers is set lower than Manu's, but she reacts a
lot more strongly to it (scratching at her neck, etc)
than he does.

we'll keep the indoor boundary set up, and keep
testing the dogs with it (hiding behind the railing
and meowing usually does the trick) so that they're
familiar with the warning tone.

Manu is already pretty sure he knows what it means,
and whenever Lola trips it, he'll bite her hind leg and
pull her down the steps so the tone stops. he's such
a big brother, always trying to keep sis out of trouble.

the outdoor training will begin later in the week, i'll post
updates once we get done with them.

-kelly


From: "culprit"
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 10:47:05 -0800

Subject: dominance struggles

yeah, i knew it was bound to happen...

Manu and Lola are both 18 months old this week. and life
has been getting a bit more interesting around the house.

when Manu first came to live with us, Lola submitted to
his bullying and life was pretty good. he ate first,
went outside first, left his crate first, and got the
first hello pets in the morning. he watched her food
bowl diligently, and as soon as she wasdone, he licked
it clean. he stole her toys, and she let him, most of
the time. their play was rough and tumble, but not scary.
and once in a while, he'd mount her, and she'd just stand
there, as though she didn't notice.

things have recently changed. we're still treating Manu
as though he's in charge, but Lola as stopped acting like
she agrees with us. it started innocently enough, he'd
get excited at something outside and go to mount Lola,
and she just sat down. didn't look at him, didn't snap,
just sat. so obviously, he couldn't do much of anything.

then she started getting possessive over toys. and not
just toys she had in her mouth, any toy he looked at.
she started snapping at him if he glanced at her wrong.
just now, Manu was laying on the choice spot in front
of the fire. normally Lola would lay behind him, but
she just sat on his head, so she could be closer to the
fire. this is new behavior, and it's worrying me.

yesterday, we were playing with a soccer ball in the yard.
i'd kick the ball, both dogs would run for it, and they'd
nose it around between them until i kicked it again. sounds
simple enough, right?

apparently Manu looked at the ball inapropriately, because
Lola just freaked out. they've made scary noises and showed
teeth before, but no one got hurt. this was not like anything
i've see either one of them do. they got into a fight, and i
was alone out there with them.

i picked up Lola by the chest, and tried to pull her off,
but that didn't work. so i grabbed Manu's jaws (upper in
one hand and lower in the other) and opened his mouth, then
i kind of inserted myself between them and pushed Lola away
with my body. i put them both in a down stay, and they just
lay there, panting, as though nothing had happened.

but something had. Lola has a puncture completely through
her ear, and several scratches on her mouth. Manu has
scratches around his mouth, and the webbing between his
toes is cut and keeps bleeding all over my floor.

and i have a nice C shaped bruise, about the size of a
pit bull's dental imprint on my arm. and it's swollen
to about half again it's size.

*sigh*

what used to be little "i'm in charge" signals have
recently escalated to the dogs not being allowed to
play together without two adults to supervise them.

i know that having two dogs of this breed can be difficult,
so i don't need any "i told you so's" there. i know that
having two adolescent dogs can be a challenge, regardless
of breed. and i know that Lola is obviously not happy with
being the bottom dog here.

the question is, what can i do? i've always supported
Manu as top dog, because he's always been the one that
showed the signs, while Lola passively sat there.

if it's going to change, do i need to change my behavior?
or do i just "let them work it out" and hope they don't
kill each other?

recently, i've been keeping a close eye on them, and if
a toy becomes a point of contention, i put it away. if
they start getting snappy or growling, i give them the
"easy" command and they go to their separate corners.

am i managing this right? is there something i'm missing
that could make this easier? it will get better when they
decide who's in charge, right?

any good books that go into this?

-kelly


From: "culprit"
Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 13:51:57 -0800

Subject: my brother's dog

my brother and his family have a dog named Wiley.
he's supposedly 1/4 Dane, 1/4 Mastiff, and 1/2 Lab.
i'm not sure i see the Mastiff, but there's definitely
some Dane in there. he's adorable, friendly, goofy,
and extremely devoted to my niece and nephew.

typical sad dog story

my brother wants to get rid of the dog. Wiley wants
to live inside with the family, but with two kids, a
small house, and a large, energetic, one year old dog,
my brother would prefer that Wiley live outside most
of the time.

my bro says the dog wants to be with the family all
the time, and won't go outside when the family doesn't
want to play. so he's looking for a new home for Wiley.

/typical sad dog story

we're considering taking Wiley in. he's young, submissive,
neutered, very dog friendly, and has played well with my dogs
in the past. i'm confident he'll fit in well with my dogs,
as far as energy level and play style, and i'm pretty sure
he'll accept his place at the bottom of the pack.

i know every time i talk about considering a third dog,
everyone jumps in to tell me it's a bad idea... but
i'd really hate to see Wiley in a shelter.

he's a needy, people oriented dog, and i'd really enjoy
having him in my household. is it really such a bad idea?

my dogs have figured out their places in the household,
they no longer fight or scuffle, they're calming down
and learning to be "adults".

it seems like it wouldn't be a bad time to add a dog to
the group. my fianc=E9 and i work different hours, so the
dogs are only alone for 4 hours a day max. we have a huge
(1.5 acre) yard, they have plenty of room to run and play,
and of course live inside the house. i really want to do
this, even knowing that i'll be putting off my dream of
having a show dog for 10 years or so.

*sigh* i feel like i already know what will be suggested,
but i just love this dog so much, i can't stand to see him
in a lesser environment than my home.

-kelly

From: "culprit"
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 15:55:36 -0800

Subject: how to be a good neighbor/ recall issues
or rather, how not to be a good neighbor, and how
do i fix it?

today, while walking Lola, her leash came off her collar.
my fault entirely, as i must not have snapped it on completely.
i'll be giving it a good tug before leaving the house from now on.

i immediately turned and took off towards the house, Lola
followed (thank goodness). then we played the lovely game
called, "i'm off leash, and you can't catch me!" yeah, i
think it's time to do some recall work again. it's been so
long since she's been out offleash, this is the first time
in our new house, that she just didn't want to come back
inside. can't say i blame her, i wish we could afford to
put up that fence already. i'd call her to me, she'd come,
then at the last minute jump away from my grip and take off.

of course, i kept trying, which reinforced the "let's play"
aspect of it.

anyway, the neighbor came out to make sure his dog was safe
(not only safe, but wagging his tail so hard his body was
wagging with it. i don't think he has had this much fun in
years), and tried to help me catch her.

she ran up to the neighbor's porch, and pushed open the
half shut door. then she ran through their brand new
house (she's covered in mud, mind you) until chased out.

the neighbor's wife was screaming the whole time and
kicked at her as she slammed the door shut.

then Lola ran up to my porch and asked to be let in,
happy as can be.

obviously this can't happen again. we're going to
install an invisible fence, just until we can afford
a real one, and of course i'll still be supervising
them while they're out.

they just need a chance to run every day. our 1.5 mile
walks aren't doing it. i keep thinking that if she were
allowed to run around outside when she wanted to, it
wouldn't be such a big deal, and she'd be more willing
to come back home when asked.

obviously we need to work on that recall again. probably
starting over from scratch.

it's just been so nasty outside. we have no lawn yet, so
the yard is just mud and standing water, and it's always
cold and raining, so outside practice is not exactly pleasant.

the problem is, she comes easily every time in the house,
meaning we *need* the outside practice. so i guess i'm
going to have to get hip waders or something so we can
practice outside.

any suggestions on "fixing" her recall are welcome. also,
if anyone knows a good recipe for "i'm sorry my dog wrecked
your house" cookies, let me know.

-kelly


From: "culprit"
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 12:33:30 -0800
Subject: "distraction training"

we're supposed to do "distraction training" with the
invisible fence. the idea being that we toss a ball
or something to the other side of the fence, with the
dog on a leash, and make sure they don't bolt through
the fence after it.

ok, no problem.

but how do you really know how they'll respond off leash?

apparently, you throw a deer at them.

yesterday, i had just let Manu outside, when i realized
there was a very frightened doe standing in the middle
of the yard, staring at me. Manu noticed her quickly,
and took off. i've NEVER seen him run like that.

apparently deer make for great exercise!

anyway, the deer bounded through the yard and into the
neighbor's field (she obviously hasn't met their GSD),
and Manu stopped well before the fence. he then sniffed
along the fence boundry for a bit, then turned around
and ran back inside.

so now we know. Manu can be trusted not to leave the yard.

i don't think i'll try this test with Lola.

-kelly


From: "culprit"
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 20:11:25 -0700

Subject: fear aggression?

how does one recognize "fear aggression", as separate
from other types of aggression? and does it matter
what causes the aggressive behavior?

Lola is no longer allowed to play with dogs who aren't Manu.

i don't think she's aggressive in the classic pit bull sense
(going nuts at the sight of another dog, unprovoked attacking,
etc). but there's something going on with her that i'm not
ok with.

see, she's really submissive. overly so.

her general reaction to a strange dog is to run up to them,
crouch down, lick their chin, then roll onto her back. this
is all well and good, but the older she gets, the more other
dogs seem to find this behavior annoying, and growl at her.

this is what our neighbor's Lab does, he growls at her and
does some dominant posturing, and she just licks more frantically
and gets more wound up, crawling frantically on her belly,
rolling onto her back, then back to her tummy, and all the
while licking their chin and mouth.

yesterday, the neighbor kid was over with their lab, we were
throwing balls for the dogs to chase, and at one point, Lola
did the submissive puppy thing. Hershey started growling,
and when she was on her back, he opened his mouth and put it
on her throat (not biting, just posturing).

she freaked out and did her "scary pit bull noise" thing
that doesn't seem to involve actual teeth on fur contact,
but is scary to watch and isn't allowed.

i pulled her off, but not before she had received three wounds
requiring stitches, multiple small cuts, and was pink with blood.

the poor girl is has been trembling and whining since she
came home from the vet, and Manu has nearly licked her fur
off trying to comfort her.

obviously the neighbor's dog is not coming over any more,
and i won't be letting Lola play with other dogs from now on.

but i'm still trying to figure out why she does that.
she's so obnoxious with the submissive posturing, we
call it "aggressively submissive".

what's that all about?

and when she suddenly fights back, is that fear aggression?

or is she suddenly remembering she's a pit bull? if it
is fear based, does that mean it's possible to train out?
or should i not even bother, based on her breed?

you know, as much as i love my dogs, and as much as i adore
the breed, i'm seriously considering getting pugs when they
pass on.

-kelly




"The Puppy Wizard"
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 21:46:10 GMT
Subject: nasty dog

HOWEDY culprit aka kelly aka metta (metta is
culprit aka kelly's aka on the MENTAL PERSONS
news groups so she doesn't get a REPUTATION
for bein a CRAZY PERSON on the non crazy
person's news groups),

"culprit" wrote in message

...

"kellie hudson" wrote in message
...

All of a sudden my normally placid, English Bull
Terrier (about5 1/2 years old) has started getting
very vicious with new visitors to the house.

He's fine with people he knows, but any stranger
he attacks, he's only started doing this in the last
3-4 months,

Anyone got any ideas on why he's doing this and
how we can get him to stop

second the vet check.

You're a MENTAL CASE, culprit. REMEMBER?

Your own opposite sex / raised together dogs
ATTACKED EACH OTHER and put the both
of them in the emergency HOWEspital two
weeks after you began SHOCKING THEM.

They TERRORIZED your KAT when IT
stayed behind your SHOCK FENCE
causing a STRESS INDUCED AUTO-
IMMUNE DIS-EASE which necessitated
a $1500.00 SURGERY.

THEN your dogs MURDERED IT despite
that they too, was RAISED TOGETHER.

sudden behavior changes in a mature dog

Like when your dog ran away from you and
ESCAPED into your neighbor's HOWES
terrorizing them and gettin mud all over it?

are often a sign something is wrong.

Shocking and jerking and choking your
dogs on pronged spiked pinch choke
collars and shocking them and taking
anti psychotic psychotropic medicatons
for many years with NO SUCCESS is a
SIGN of SUMPTHIN WRONG, kelly aka
culprit aka metta.

has his behavior changed in any other way?

No, he's PROTECTING his HOWES, culprit
aka metta aka kelly.

i'd definitely have his eyes and hearing checked.

There's NO reason to "CHECK" nuthin till
the dog is TRAINED not to do that in a few
minutes, if you knew HOWE.

my friend's

"Birds of a feather."

Shar Pei recently became blind,

Blindness can be CAUSED by STRESS, culprit.
Like cate's DEATHLY ILL dog Orson.

and the first sign they had was that she displayed
aggression to people she didn't know.

Your FRIEND is likeWIZE a MENTAL CASE.

because she couldn't see them.

That's INSANE.

Blind dogs don't FEAR things unless they've
BEEN ABUSED, culprit.

-kelly

Newsgroups: alt.support.depression.medication
Date: 2004-04-15 00:54:24 PST
In article ,

"metta" wrote:
"Robin" wrote in message
...

You're probably right, but you're going to get
this stuff on many boards. You'd be surprised
the hostility and behavior on rec.pets.dogs.breeds.
I make it a policy never to respond to this stuff.
It is inconsequential, and I ignore it.

wait, are you Robin with the sweet Shar Pei mix?
if so, i'm kelly, usually post as culprit. decided to
use different names in the support groups because
certain trolls there were using people's medical
histories against them.

:-S

anyway, hello to you!

-kelly

Nope, different Robin. Planning to get my first
dog from one of the rescue organizations. I've
seen your name there. I haven't posted there
much, but when I do, it's under the name "Robin".

From: metta )
Subject: choices.
Newsgroups: alt.support.dissociation
Date: 2004-05-12 15:26:35 PST

something new happened this week. or maybe
not new, but newly noticed. had a f*ght with SO.

and felt bad, at fault, responsible for causing him
to be mad with me. the usually negative stuff. and
i thought, i should let this go. it's not my fault, i'm
not bad, it's just a little thing, not important (this is
the "new" me, things i learned from it, from meditation,
from growing up...).

and then i decided that no, i wanted to slip. i wanted
to screw up and be bad. i wanted, no, needed to be
bad. to be responsible. to be at fault for everything.
i needed to feel helpless, hopeless, pointless.

i ached to feel that black ball of pain taking over my
heart again. it's been so long. i wanted to be
destructive, to me and everything around me.

i took lots of klonopin, lots of soma, drank much
wine. slept on the couch, couldn't be near SO,
couldn't think of the good things in my life.

needed to keep this badness around me.

woke up, had a test to take, so took test and passed,
but still felt icky, wanted to go home and take more
klonopin. but decided instead to have lunch with a
friend. because i didn't want to feel bad anymore.
didn't want to e responsible for bad feelings. didn't
want to make myself hurt more.

so went to lunch and did some breathing and felt
better. and now feel back to normal, everything is
fine, life is happy and good and my mood is wonderful.

but i keep thinking about that moment of choice.
i *knew* i was choosing to feel bad. i could have
stopped it. i could have been smart and banish the
negative thoughts. but i didn't want to.

this is new for me, being healthy, happy, not blaming
me for everything that goes bad. and sometimes i feel like i
don't know how to be healthy. i don't know how to
be "sane". and it would be so much easier to just slip
back into destructive habits. to be bad me again.

i'm scared that i'll make that choice again. but not
choose to come back to my "good" life. i'm scared
i'll stay bad me. why did i need to be bad so much?

i think this has to do with m*thr's day. stupid stupid day.

*sigh*

-kelly

--
did we expect that life was ever fair, my god...
i sowed a field of rose and reaped a whipping rod

From: metta )
Subject: quotes for this time tomorrow
Newsgroups: alt.support.dissociation
Date: 2004-05-12 15:10:40 PST

"Eridanus" wrote in message
news:1gdj6hk.1jj4jhu19tneuoN%kalasin@olsonnetwork. com...

I haven't seen it. But now I want to.

I don't have to catch the bus to my p-rent's
for another hour and a half! Woohoo! I don't
have any MAJOR MAJOR issues with mine,
I just don't like them much. And I'm hermiting.

be careful, it's about an ab*sive m*thr. please
don't watch it if that's difficult for you.

i didn't know how movies like that affected me
before, cuz i had my em*tions so squashed
down inside, and didn't notice at the time.

now i get very uncomfortable when i watch
things like that. and i'm supposed to be "better".

hmph.

-kelly
--
did we expect that life was ever fair, my god...
i sowed a field of rose and reaped a whipping rod
-toad the wet sprocket

From: metta )
Subject: Electric brain quake effect?
Newsgroups: alt.support.depression.medication
Date: 2004-05-12 14:43:44 PST

"Drew" wrote in message
1...

Kelly,

I stopped three days ago. I still have a bottle
in the medicine cabinet.

I was only on it for eight weeks so I don't
expect to have it as bad as folks on it for
months or years.

withdrawal tends to be worse for people who
have only taken it a short while. yes, that's
weird, but it seems to be true.

I never felt better on it anyway. Maybe it wasn't
depression at all, just bitterness in a failed (to
use the term loosely) relationship.

I originally thought it would help to shake her
out of my mind but it never worked.

if you only took it for eight weeks, you have no
way of knowing whether it would work or not.

you need to give it at least a month before you
can tell if it's working.

either way, good luck...

-kelly

From: metta )
Subject: Switching Medication
Newsgroups: alt.support.ocd
Date: 2004-05-07 16:29:24 PST

Blank
"joanna.lacey" wrote in message
news:c6Tmc.626$z06.263730@attbi_s01...

Hi guys,

I'm in the process of switching from zoloft to effexor.
My med level is low and my depression and wandering
thoughts are high.

I don't like it.

I don't want to freak out in the store again,
you know what I mean?

What is the highest dose for Effexor. I'm down
to 50mg. of zoloft until it is 0 and at 75mg of effexor.

I'm sure it can go higher right?

The only good thing is I'm more horny than
I was before. I've been sweating like crazy
and my contamination, perfection ocd is
bugging me badly.

---------------

i'm taking 150 of Effexor, and when i switched
from paxil, i just quit the paxil and started at 75
of effexor, then upped it to 150 in two weeks.

the Effexor is my miracle drug, it really changed
my life. i hope it works well for you...

-kelly

From: metta )
Subject: benzos and birth control
Newsgroups: alt.support.anxiety-panic
Date: 2004-05-05 22:24:01 PST

i was on depo and klonopin at the same time
and didn't have any problems with it. the
package insert for depo doesn't say anything
about interactions with benzos. it does, however,
say it's contraindicated in anyone with a history of
depression.

good luck...

-kelly

From: metta )
Subject: wellbutrin--what to expect?
Newsgroups: alt.support.depression.medication
Date: 2004-04-29 19:45:31 PST

"LostBoyinNC" wrote in message
...

Not at all. Not a chance. The drugs that cause
movement disorders are drugs that create dopamine
blockade, primarily anti-psychotics.

SSRIs also have the potential to create mild,
transient movement disorders such as akathisia
or bruxism. Drugs like Wellbutrin actually help
movement disorders, although wellbutrin's effect
on dopamine is so mild it wouldnt really improve
a real movement disorder.

weird, it made me twitch.

Its also the preferred AD for bipolar.

this makes no sense to me, as there's a warning
right on the label that it can induce manic states,
and should be used with caution in bipolar patients.

-kelly

From: metta )
Subject: obsessed
Newsgroups: alt.support.ocd
Date: 2004-04-30 20:39:01 PST

i talked with my SO about four hours ago.
he said he might drop in to my office on
his way home. that's the last i heard from him.
and now, i can't stop calling his cell phone.

he's not answering and i know he'll see the
billion calls from my number and be mad at
me, but i can't stop calling him.

what if something horrible happened to him?
where is he? what if he got into an accident
and is in the hospital? just can't stop calling him.

*sigh*

he's probably out playing cards with the guys, talking about how
"controlling" i am., because i keep calling.

but all i can think of is what if there's something wrong,
i have to call him.

i hate this crap.

-kelly

From: metta )
Subject: obsessed
Newsgroups: alt.support.ocd
Date: 2004-04-30 20:44:43 PST

"metta" wrote in message
...

of course, the second i post this, he calls me back.
his cell was on silent.

*sigh*

now if i can just get all this adrenaline out of my bloodstream...

-kelly

I'm sorry, I should have explained better, I talking about when I have
to hold him still, like to give him a pill, or when he was at the vets
to be fixed, he had a FIT when they tryed to hold him down to give him a
shot. A few months ago, I wanted his hips checked, he had to be held
still for x-rays, he growled and tryed to bite them because he can't
stand to be held still.
He is also crazy if put in a crate, but sleeps in the bathroom fine.

He doesn't start obedence class till next month.. So no instructor yet

On Fri, 7 Oct 2005 10:48:03 -0400, (Aimee S) wrote:


I'm sorry, I should have explained better, I talking about when I have
to hold him still, like to give him a pill, or when he was at the vets
to be fixed, he had a FIT when they tryed to hold him down to give him a
shot. A few months ago, I wanted his hips checked, he had to be held
still for x-rays, he growled and tryed to bite them because he can't
stand to be held still.
He is also crazy if put in a crate, but sleeps in the bathroom fine.

He doesn't start obedence class till next month.. So no instructor yet

You just got hooked by replying to this well known
netloon and troll. Once he baits you as he does
with others, you became troll bait and he will flame
you and harass you through this newsgroup and in email.

PLEASE killfile this well known Jerry Howe aka
The Amazing Puppy Wizard who is using alot of alias in
here. He is a pathological liar and net kook.

All he does is slander and defame people in
here. He knows nothing about dog training or
canine behavior. He just makes this up and
has been trolling this newsgroup for years.

On 7 Oct 2005 01:21:06 -0700, wrote:

HOWEDY culprit,

culprit wrote:
"Aimee S" wrote in message
...

Can anyone give me ideas on how to get my 5 month
old Aussie mix to do better when he is restrained??

Yeah. culprit's gonna DEMONSTRATE.

He is nasty when restrained, growls and trys
to bite. he's fine otherwise, very friendly and
very playful.

Perhaps she's got a seven thousand dollar kat?

**** YOU JERRY! STUPID BRAINDEAD **** YOU ARE. GO AWAY AND STOP
HARASSING US!

On Fri, 7 Oct 2005 10:48:03 -0400, (Aimee S),
clicked their heels and said:


I'm sorry, I should have explained better, I talking about when I have
to hold him still, like to give him a pill, or when he was at the vets
to be fixed, he had a FIT when they tryed to hold him down to give him a
shot.

Give a pill - try HANDING it to him, with or without adornment. Most
dogs don't need to be "pilled" - they eat them willingly, if not
plain, with some peanut butter or cheese or such, or the new "pill
pockets".

Shots aren't heavy restraint - hold him DOWN? And neutering is with
anesthesia of course ;-D

It IS important for your dog to accept restraint of course. I would
suggets that YOU restrain him lovingly every single day, with a food
reward at the ready. Make him think restraint brings good things.

A few months ago, I wanted his hips checked, he had to be held
still for x-rays, he growled and tryed to bite them because he can't
stand to be held still.

No relaxant at all? For an untrained dog? egads.

He is also crazy if put in a crate, but sleeps in the bathroom fine.

Was he acclimated to the crate as a young puppy? Where is the crate?

He doesn't start obedence class till next month.. So no instructor yet

Good that he's starting though. Work on this every day as described
above, and you're on your way, but obedience is the ultimate answer.

--
Janet B
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/bestfr...bedience/album