I've been thinking alot lately about concepts that we would normally
consider "human" concepts and wondering if our dogs were capable of
"getting" them.

For example..... "free choice." My dog developed a habit of knocking to
get in and then running away when I went to the door. "You can't catch me"
is her all time favorite game. My solution was, anytime she knocked to come
in but, ran offinstead; I would not answer another knock for growing periods
of time. There came a point where should would knock, and then just stand
there and look at me. I would say "in or out" and then shut the door if she
continued to stand there. It didn't take much of this before she reacted as
soon as I said "in or out," but the interesting thing is that she does not
always reacts the same. Sometimes she chooses to come on in, or sometimes
she chooses to stay out, but she never just stands there anymore. The same
thing applies when I am about to shut my bedroom door; "in or out" means I
am about to shut the door, which side would she like to be on when it
closes. Sometimes she will join me in my bedroom, and sometimes she
doesn't. Does she understand that I am offering her a choice? Is she
choosing? Or is she just responding to the "in or out" command in an
inconsistent manner?

Another human concept is "ownership." One thing I've noticed with several
dogs, is if they want a game of catch or tug , they will bring one of their
toys to you. However, that very same dog, when feeling clownish or
mischeivous, will grab your shoe, and run off for a raucus game of "catch
me." Another example is when you have multiple dogs, and most toys are
available to all dogs; noone gets possessive of them. But then some dogs
choose one particular toy, they don't want the other dogs to play with. Is
this just territorial instincts? Or do they have a concept of "ownership?"
Do they understand that if they grab something of "yours" instead of
something of "theirs" that you will react to get it back?

Opinions? Other human concepts that dogs may get?

Robin
http://community.webshots.com/user/robinandtami

In rec.pets.dogs.behavior Robin wrote:
There came a point where should would knock, and then just stand
there and look at me. I would say "in or out" and then shut the door if she
continued to stand there. It didn't take much of this before she reacted as
soon as I said "in or out," but the interesting thing is that she does not
always reacts the same. Sometimes she chooses to come on in, or sometimes
she chooses to stay out, but she never just stands there anymore. The same
thing applies when I am about to shut my bedroom door; "in or out" means I
am about to shut the door, which side would she like to be on when it
closes. Sometimes she will join me in my bedroom, and sometimes she
doesn't. Does she understand that I am offering her a choice? Is she
choosing?

I don't think she understands the concept of being "offered a
choice." More likely, she's learned the pattern: you utter
those words, and a moment later the door will close. But of
course she *is* choosing, so the effect is the same if not the
understanding of it.

Another human concept is "ownership." One thing I've noticed with several
dogs, is if they want a game of catch or tug , they will bring one of their
toys to you. However, that very same dog, when feeling clownish or
mischeivous, will grab your shoe, and run off for a raucus game of "catch
me." Another example is when you have multiple dogs, and most toys are
available to all dogs; noone gets possessive of them. But then some dogs
choose one particular toy, they don't want the other dogs to play with. Is
this just territorial instincts? Or do they have a concept of "ownership?"

That's a more interesting question, I think.

My puppy is enjoying decreasing levels of direct supervision, and
will sometimes have the opportunity to disappear from sight and
grab something that's not his. Invariably he'll run back to the
room where one of us is, and prance around with his trophy a bit
so that we'll see what he has. It's definitely a behavior that
differs from that he displays when he retrieves one of his toys,
and it's difficult not to believe that what he's really after is a
little game of chase.

Yep, just now he went into the kitchen, and now he's danced back
into my study with a towel. Excuse me a moment.

Okay, then. I think what's happening here is that our dogs are
recognizing differing patterns in humans and other dogs when they
take different things. We interpret that as them grasping the
concept of "ownership," but I don't think that's it.

I'm not sure about the favorite-toy thing with other dogs. As an
aside: I know two unfortunate dogs who have almost NO toys, because
the third gets very aggressive about taking them away from them.

[followups]

--
Mark Shaw (And Baron) moc TOD liamg TA wahsnm
================================================== =======================
"Outside of a dog, a book is probably man's best
friend; inside of a dog, it's too dark to read." -Groucho Marx

For example..... "free choice." My dog developed a habit of knocking to
get in and then running away when I went to the door. "You can't catch
me" is her all time favorite game. My solution was, anytime she knocked
to come in but, ran offinstead; I would not answer another knock for
growing periods of time. There came a point where should would knock, and
then just stand there and look at me. I would say "in or out" and then
shut the door if she continued to stand there. It didn't take much of
this before she reacted as soon as I said "in or out," but the interesting
thing is that she does not always reacts the same. Sometimes she chooses
to come on in, or sometimes she chooses to stay out, but she never just
stands there anymore. The same thing applies when I am about to shut my
bedroom door; "in or out" means I am about to shut the door, which side
would she like to be on when it closes. Sometimes she will join me in my
bedroom, and sometimes she doesn't. Does she understand that I am
offering her a choice? Is she choosing? Or is she just responding to the
"in or out" command in an inconsistent manner?


I never thought of it that way. Maui is giving the same command when he
comes to the door to be let in. I say "in or out" so he knows I am not
standing there all day. Sometimes he stays out, sometimes he comes in but
he always "decides" quickly. I always assumed he was understanding the
choice of it but he might just think it is a command to come in and
sometimes he ignores it. In other words, good question.

"MauiJNP" wrote in message
...

For example..... "free choice." My dog developed a habit of knocking to
get in and then running away when I went to the door. "You can't catch
me" is her all time favorite game. My solution was, anytime she knocked
to come in but, ran offinstead; I would not answer another knock for
growing periods of time. There came a point where should would knock,
and then just stand there and look at me. I would say "in or out" and
then shut the door if she continued to stand there. It didn't take much
of this before she reacted as soon as I said "in or out," but the
interesting thing is that she does not always reacts the same. Sometimes
she chooses to come on in, or sometimes she chooses to stay out, but she
never just stands there anymore. The same thing applies when I am about
to shut my bedroom door; "in or out" means I am about to shut the door,
which side would she like to be on when it closes. Sometimes she will
join me in my bedroom, and sometimes she doesn't. Does she understand
that I am offering her a choice? Is she choosing? Or is she just
responding to the "in or out" command in an inconsistent manner?


I never thought of it that way. Maui is giving the same command when he
comes to the door to be let in. I say "in or out" so he knows I am not
standing there all day. Sometimes he stays out, sometimes he comes in but
he always "decides" quickly. I always assumed he was understanding the
choice of it but he might just think it is a command to come in and
sometimes he ignores it. In other words, good question.




LOL, It's had me stumped. Shar-pei expressions are so deadpan, even when
they are being clownish.

http://community.webshots.com/user/robinandtami