Jack "The Unpalatable Barbarian" Morrison wrote:
"ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. - The author of a new state law that allows felony
charges against owners of dangerous dogs was hospitalized over the
weekend after his own dog attacked him..."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051019/...viser_dog_bite

How sad for him and his dog. I wonder which one it was - the
boxer or one of the bulldogs.

Two pit mixes that were rescued from Katrina and brought to NM
attacked a shelter volunteer who had stopped by the foster home
to take the male to the vet - his neutering site had become infected.

http://www.lamonitor.com/articles/20...ews/news02.txt

Now I'm wondering how this law will work with these dogs - will
the foster home be liable? Or the person who rescued the dogs
from New Orleans? Or no one - which IMO would be preferable.

FurPaw

--
"Don't believe everything that you think."
- Seen on a bumper sticker

To reply, unleash the dog

"FurPaw" wrote in message
...

Two pit mixes that were rescued from Katrina and brought to NM attacked a
shelter volunteer who had stopped by the foster home to take the male to
the vet - his neutering site had become infected.

http://www.lamonitor.com/articles/20...ews/news02.txt

If somebody came to my house like this, and I wasn't home, and my dogs tore
his or her butt up, I'd give them praise and a treat. I would NEVER have
suggested to ANYONE that they could come to my home and take one of my dogs
out when I wasn't there. NEVER NEVER NEVER.

Now I'm wondering how this law will work with these dogs - will the foster
home be liable? Or the person who rescued the dogs from New Orleans? Or
no one - which IMO would be preferable.

I think they ought to disband the shelter that sent that volunteer over
there, and jail the volunteer and her supervisor. If she'd come to my house
like that, I'd've pressed charges for illegal entry or trespassing. If she
was still alive. If the foster family said she could pick up the dog when
they weren't home, they're too stupid to have dogs.

These dogs were *rescues.* Nobody can have any idea how well they were
socialized. They've only been in contact with them since sometime after
August 29. It would have been much safer to assume that the dogs would
behave like NORMAL DOGS and protect their territory against intruders when
the owners weren't there. That's NORMAL. It isn't a temperament problem,
and it isn't some aberration.

J effin C. This rescue group works with dogs and has no frickin' idea how
dogs behave. Poor dogs. They were out of cages and had a steady home,
after all they've been through. Sounds like they settled in well. They did
a good job, repelling that intruder, is how the dogs looked at it. Now
they're gonna die, due to the stupidity of that rescue. Because they
supposedly have a "temperament problem." They were "bred for attacking
people."

Consider my mind on a major boggle.

flick 100785

"flick" wrote in message
...

I think they ought to disband the shelter that sent that volunteer over
there, and jail the volunteer and her supervisor. If she'd come to my
house like that, I'd've pressed charges for illegal entry or trespassing.
If she was still alive. If the foster family said she could pick up the
dog when they weren't home, they're too stupid to have dogs.

I heartily disagree with all of the above. The dogs probably hadn't
exhibited any signs of aggression at that point and its highly likely that
the foster volunteer asked the shelter volunteer to come get this dog. Its
not an uncommon occurrence for volunteers to help each other out like that.
And no matter what anyone says that lady did *not* deserve an attack and,
based on info from the foster volunteer, very likely had no reason to
suspect she'd meet with trouble.

These dogs were *rescues.* Nobody can have any idea how well they were
socialized. They've only been in contact with them since sometime after
August 29. It would have been much safer to assume that the dogs would
behave like NORMAL DOGS and protect their territory against intruders when
the owners weren't there. That's NORMAL. It isn't a temperament problem,
and it isn't some aberration.

You think its normal for dogs to pack attack an intruder who probably knew
their names and presented no threat to them? I agree that alot of dogs will
guard and bite an intruder but not all or nearly all so I wouldn't classify
attack behavior as normal.

J effin C. This rescue group works with dogs and has no frickin' idea how
dogs behave. Poor dogs. They were out of cages and had a steady home,
after all they've been through. Sounds like they settled in well. They
did a good job, repelling that intruder, is how the dogs looked at it.
Now they're gonna die, due to the stupidity of that rescue. Because they
supposedly have a "temperament problem." They were "bred for attacking
people."

For all anyone knows they could have been bred for that. Its not uncommon
to find attack dogs, bred & raised to be attack dogs, in very poor areas of
cities. Some of the hardest hit areas where dogs were left behind were very
poor areas. There's no way to know but I don't think there's quite enough
information to feel as strongly as you do about shutting down a shelter and
jailing volunteers.


--
Tara

"Tee" wrote in message
...

You think its normal for dogs to pack attack an intruder who probably knew
their names and presented no threat to them? I agree that alot of dogs
will guard and bite an intruder but not all or nearly all so I wouldn't
classify attack behavior as normal.

We don't have any idea how well, or if at all, those dogs knew the
volunteer. She may have had only brief contact with them, or none. If she
knew them at the initial shelter, where they were caged and surrounded by
other frightened dogs, they might associate her with an unpleasant
experience and fear her. Even if they'd known her at the first shelter and
liked her, they were now in a new home, and wouldn't necessarily consider
her to be part of their "pack" any more. Therefore, she was an intruder.
Entering the territory of a dog, and you're an intruder (to the dog), yes,
that's threatening. They aren't people and don't reason like we do.

Plus, if you think a lot of dogs will do it, how can it not be normal? It's
as normal as the sun rising in the east. Heh, most dogs never get the
opportunity to bite an intruder, because bad guys avoid dogs like the
plague.

For all anyone knows they could have been bred for that. Its not uncommon
to find attack dogs, bred & raised to be attack dogs, in very poor areas
of cities. Some of the hardest hit areas where dogs were left behind were
very poor areas. There's no way to know but I don't think there's quite
enough information to feel as strongly as you do about shutting down a
shelter and jailing volunteers.

Normal dogs are territorial, to a greater or lesser degree. Some people
would rather train that out of their dogs; I don't. But none of my dogs
were raised or bred to be attack dogs. If you enter my femce if I'm not
home, I think you'll get hurt. If I'm here and accompanying you, you can
come in and walk right past 'em. Most of them will wag their tails and beg
for petting, except the 2 shy ones.

A dog is a hero if it saves its owner from an intruder. Purina gives that
dog a medal. Well, that's what these dogs thought they were doing. It's a
more pronounced instinct, IME, when you've got more than one. I am of the
opinion, and I've stated it before, that it's unnatural to take dogs to dog
parks and expect them to play nice with all the other dogs - who aren't part
of their "pack." Dogs aren't moving stuffed animals on the end of a leash.
They have instincts and behaviors, y'know. One of those is territoriality.
Another is pack behavior.

JMO, the fact that they didn't bark when she showed up at that house should
have alerted her NOT to go in, if they weren't wagging and acting happy to
see her. Dogs that aren't afraid, aren't barking. They aren't alerting
their pack, they are gonna handle it. I would not have entered that yard.
I betcha that they both stood there alert and watched her and stared.

One of them was recently neutered. Takes about 3 months for the hormones to
get out. The dog that most frequently bites is an *unneutered male.* I
wonder if the other dog was a recently-spayed female. There's just all
kinds of reasons that this incident could have been human error and not due
to dogs that were "bred to attack." And there's so much human error around,
that's the direction I'm leaning, until I learn otherwise.

flick 100785

Jack,

I couldn't agree with you more. If people would just stop and think of what
the heck they are doing a lot of grief could be avoided.

I had two wonderful lab mixes that passed away early this year. Barney was
extremely protective of me and my home. The other who was a marshmallow 99%
of the time but would follow right along with Barney when he went into
attack and the two of them were a scarey sight. I would never dream of
sending a total stranger or even a close friend to my house to pick up or
let out my dogs for me. Sending someone into that situation with my dogs
would have just been asking for an attack to occur. I would be shocked if
they didn't react that way knowing Barneys behavior with strangers.

My dogs knew family members enough to trust and obey them. Those were the
only people either of them were ever left with over night and the only other
people allowed to take care of them.

Celeste


"Jack "The Unpalatable Barbarian" Morrison"
wrote in message
...
On Wed, 19 Oct 2005 12:02:03 -0600, FurPaw
wrote:

Jack "The Unpalatable Barbarian" Morrison wrote:
"ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. - The author of a new state law that allows felony
charges against owners of dangerous dogs was hospitalized over the
weekend after his own dog attacked him..."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051019/...viser_dog_bite

How sad for him and his dog. I wonder which one it was - the
boxer or one of the bulldogs.

I don't think it really matters.

Two pit mixes that were rescued from Katrina and brought to NM
attacked a shelter volunteer who had stopped by the foster home
to take the male to the vet - his neutering site had become infected.

http://www.lamonitor.com/articles/20...ews/news02.txt

IMO, this smacks of another case of "stupid is as stupid does."

Send a total stranger out to a house (in which the foster parents were
not home) to pick up a dog undergoing stress (and maybe PAIN as well,
and not expect "****" to happen?

boggle

Now, I hate it when someone gets bitten, but for crissakes, how stupid
can one person (or more) get?

Yes, most dogs wouldn't have bitten her, but a very large percentage
of dogs, and of many other breeds, too, would have/should have been
expected to react in a similar way.

That's why, if we're really serious about wanting to cut down on
incidents like this one, humans have to stop doing stupid ****.

Now I'm wondering how this law will work with these dogs - will
the foster home be liable?

Who knows?

It's such a stupid law that anything is possible here.

sigh

Until we can find a way to ban stupid people from having sex with each
other, anything's possible.
--

Jack "The Unpalatable Barbarian" Morrison
*gently remove the detonator to send me e-mail

Saddam Hussein: The Left's New Mumia?
http://newsbusters.org/node/2353

"Jack "The Unpalatable Barbarian" Morrison"
wrote in message
...


big snips

And yes, it should be considered perfectly normal, IMO, for two dogs
to respond exactly the way they responded here.

But even if they weren't bred to attack, many perfectly "normal"
breeds, many perfectly "normal" dogs, under these same extenuating
circumstances, could have been, and should have been, expected to
respond as they did.

Thanks, Jack.

I get into this stuff with a dog-hating troll in another ng, who likes to
post dog-attack and death-by-dogs articles. The incidents are almost always
caused by human (usually owner) error. But people don't realize that, and
they get hysterical and legislate against breeds, etc., etc. Pisses me off,
the whole mess. Heck, a Pomeranian killed a baby a few years ago.

I wonder if they'd be calling for a breed ban, or thinking these dogs had
been "bred to attack," if they had been Standard Poodles sigh.

flick 100785

On Fri, 21 Oct 2005 01:18:25 -0500 flick whittled these words:

I wonder if they'd be calling for a breed ban, or thinking these dogs had
been "bred to attack," if they had been Standard Poodles sigh.

They would if they paid any attention to the breed history. Standard
Poodles have been used for Police Work, and many are very protective and
quite willing to bite. If you get the right breeding they should be as
competent as any other dog commonly used for police work.

Golden Retriever is a different story. Never have been bred for man work,
and should invite the burglar in and show the way to the silverware.
Still there are GR attacks from time to time.


--
Diane Blackman
There is no moral victory in proclaiming to abhor violence
while preaching with violent words.
http://dog-play.com/ http://dogplayshops.com/