I have long wanted a dog. Unfortunately, I have an allergy to most dogs.
Not all, but most. It seems to be mainly dogs that shed. Now I hear about
doodle dogs and how they're ok for people like me. I do know that doodle
dogs get their allergy benefit from poodles, but I just don't like poodles.
Sorry, I know people love them, but their personality and mine just don't
seem to mix. Given this...

I would appreciate help determining what kind of doodle dog might be best
for me. Let me tell you what my lifestyle and perhaps that will help.

I'm a marketer. I will likely be going down to Dallas in January to head a
new department (if not subsidiary) that focuses on web services for a major
corporation. Being the head, I am seriously going to see if I can bring my
dog into work with me. I'll give them their own bed in my office, let them
have the run of the floor and hopefully they will make friends with all my
subordinates. If this isn't possible or isn't a good environment for my
dog, I do plan to live close to the office and, due to food allergies, go
home for lunch each day and spend it with my dog. Being an extrovert, I
plan to give an open invitation to any of my subordinates and higher-ups to
come and have lunch with me. Even if I can take my dog to work with me,
they and I will still be going home for lunch each day.

I'm hoping to find an apartment within short walking distance of my office.
The apartment will be a spacious three-bedroom apartment with myself as its
sole occupant.

Especially if I cannot take my dog with me to work, I am seriously thinking
of getting at least two dogs. This way when they're home alone, they have
companionship. If it is just two, I'll probably have one be a boy and the
other a girl as I hear two of the same sex can have problems getting along
with each other.

I plan to purchase a Jeep and let my dog(s) travel in the backseat area and
not up front with me, whether or not I have a passenger.

I like going on long walk-n-reads. I have very good peripheral vision and
enjoy reading while I walk around town. No, I don't trip or walk out into
traffic. I would like a dog that will walk with me, not be pulling on their
leash, and know to stop at curbs. Yes, I'm willing to go through obedience
training with them for this type of performance. Some days I enjoy going
for a walk-n-read for the entire day and would like to a dog that would be
up for that. Though, normally, I only do this for four to six hours and
that being on Saturday and/or Sunday. I don't just read, but will stop and
enjoy the scenery. If I had a dog(s) accompany me, I'd bring along a
frisbee for these times when we come across a park.

I like going boulder and low-level mountain climbing. I would love a dog
that is part mountain goat. One that can handle boulder climbing (from one
boulder to the next) as I have enjoyed doing at Devil's Lake in Wisconsin
(http://www.devilslakewisconsin.com/). That and one that would enjoy just
doing the climb up a standard low-level mountain. By "low-level", I mean
climbing that doesn't require oxygen tanks.

I am a major extrovert and love having 10-50 people over for a movie
marathon on a Saturday or Sunday. Or mini-marathons on Friday nights. I
also plan to host pre-performance dinners for 10-50 friends before we go and
see fine arts performances, such as the Dallas Symphony Orchestra.

I am a single heterosexual bachelor so I need a dog that can handle lady
friends that stay over the night and might need to get up during the night
to use the bathroom or get a little bite to eat in the kitchen. I would
really not want a dog that would bark at them while they do that.

I do prefer a cool apartment. When guests are not around, I like the
temperature down around 40-45 degrees. However, if this is too cold for a
dog that is best suited for the other activities, I am willing to raise it
higher, but would rather not raise it higher than 68 degrees.

Now I know Dallas is blazingly hot during the summer and I do not plan to
take my dogs out during the hottest time of the day. As I hate heat myself,
I won't be going out then either. I do plan to go out on those very hot
days late at night for a hour to two hour walk. I'm a nightowl so these
walks might be around midnight.

As for grooming, I plan to have a dog groomer come to the apartment as often
as the dogs need grooming so it is done right and the dogs get a check-up
each time too.

I have young nieces, nephews, and cousins that I would like the dog to
become great pals with.

I'm not sure if it matters, but I'm 41 years old and will be turning 42 on
Christmas Eve.

Now I would love a Labradoodle or Goldendoodle, but I assume they need lots
of space to run around like their pure bred cousins. Given that I will be
in an apartment, I assume those dogs are out of the question. I would
prefer a big dog. I have no interest in small dogs. I would enjoy a dog
that would cozy up with me while I watch TV or curl up at my feet while I
play a computer game.

So what kind of a doodle dog would be good for me? :-)

Thanks in advance!

Scott Jensen
--
Peer-to-peer networking is the entertainment industry's future.
Read the white paper "The P2P Revolution" to learn about it.
http://www.adservius.com/pdf/P2P_Revolution.pdf

In rec.pets.dogs.breeds Scott T. Jensen wrote:
I have long wanted a dog. Unfortunately, I have an allergy to most dogs.
Not all, but most. It seems to be mainly dogs that shed. Now I hear about
doodle dogs and how they're ok for people like me. I do know that doodle
dogs get their allergy benefit from poodles, but I just don't like poodles.
Sorry, I know people love them, but their personality and mine just don't
seem to mix. Given this...

Unfortunately, when mixed with a breed that sheds, only something like
slightly less than 25% of them don't shed. So, already, a bit mlore than
75% of the offspring shed. And by shedding, I mean throwing hair to the
ground and not holding it until brushed. When you pet them, their dander
will get on your hands and your clothing and just spread from there.


I would appreciate help determining what kind of doodle dog might be best
for me. Let me tell you what my lifestyle and perhaps that will help.

Whichever one catches your fancy at the pet shelter. They are NOT worth
thousands of dollars, so ignore the cute ones at the pet stores and look
first at their health.

corporation. Being the head, I am seriously going to see if I can bring my
dog into work with me. I'll give them their own bed in my office, let them
have the run of the floor and hopefully they will

If this isn't possible or isn't a good environment for my
dog, I do plan to live close to the office and, due to food allergies, go
home for lunch each day and spend it with my dog. Being an extrovert, I
plan to give an open invitation to any of my subordinates and higher-ups to
come and have lunch with me. Even if I can take my dog to work with me,
they and I will still be going home for lunch each day.

This sounds fantastic. You might even be able to get a younger dog if you
so wish (say, under a year) since you'd be able to take him out and feed
him at appropriate times.


I'm hoping to find an apartment within short walking distance of my office.
The apartment will be a spacious three-bedroom apartment with myself as its
sole occupant.

Just about any dog does well in the apartment, what matters is what the
other does with the dog!


Especially if I cannot take my dog with me to work, I am seriously thinking
of getting at least two dogs. This way when they're home alone, they have
companionship. If it is just two, I'll probably have one be a boy and the
other a girl as I hear two of the same sex can have problems getting along
with each other.

I wouldn't start out with getting two pets. They could easily bond better
with each other than with you. You need to create an absolute bond with
each of them, than their createing a bond with each other.


I plan to purchase a Jeep and let my dog(s) travel in the backseat area and
not up front with me, whether or not I have a passenger.

Just get a dog seatbelt and you'll be fine!


I like going on long walk-n-reads. I have very good peripheral vision and
enjoy reading while I walk around town. No, I don't trip or walk out into
traffic. I would like a dog that will walk with me, not be pulling on their
leash, and know to stop at curbs. Yes, I'm willing to go through obedience
training with them for this type of performance. Some days I enjoy going
for a walk-n-read for the entire day and would like to a dog that would be
up for that. Though, normally, I only do this for four to six hours and
that being on Saturday and/or Sunday. I don't just read, but will stop and
enjoy the scenery. If I had a dog(s) accompany me, I'd bring along a
frisbee for these times when we come across a park.

Your best bet is an adult dog, at least 2 years of age. Younger than
thisw, they act too puppylike and you have even more issues to deal with
than if you had gotten a slightly older dog.


I like going boulder and low-level mountain climbing. I would love a dog
that is part mountain goat. One that can handle boulder climbing (from one
boulder to the next) as I have enjoyed doing at Devil's Lake in Wisconsin
(http://www.devilslakewisconsin.com/). That and one that would enjoy just
doing the climb up a standard low-level mountain. By "low-level", I mean
climbing that doesn't require oxygen tanks.

If you go to the shelter, and pick out a mix that looks like it has high
energy, I bet you're going to end up with a perfect hiking partner. Make
sure they are at least 18 months old and x-ray their hips if you can. The
growth plates should be finished with and you'll have proof that they
aren't growing. YOu can stress them at that point. If you stress hips
that still have open growth plates, you risk permanently damaging the
dog's joints.

I am a major extrovert and love having 10-50 people over for a movie
marathon on a Saturday or Sunday. Or mini-marathons on Friday nights. I
also plan to host pre-performance dinners for 10-50 friends before we go and
see fine arts performances, such as the Dallas Symphony Orchestra.

Getting a dog thgat isn't shy and exoposing it to tons of people is the
best way to make ti feel comfortable in a crowd.

I am a single heterosexual bachelor so I need a dog that can handle lady
friends that stay over the night and might need to get up during the night
to use the bathroom or get a little bite to eat in the kitchen. I would
really not want a dog that would bark at them while they do that.

Again, getting a not shy dog and introducing them to special people in
your life would work fine.f


I do prefer a cool apartment. When guests are not around, I like the
temperature down around 40-45 degrees. However, if this is too cold for a
dog that is best suited for the other activities, I am willing to raise it
higher, but would rather not raise it higher than 68 degrees.

Many, many dogs do just fine at room temps of 60 degrees


Now I know Dallas is blazingly hot during the summer and I do not plan to
take my dogs out during the hottest time of the day. As I hate heat myself,
I won't be going out then either. I do plan to go out on those very hot
days late at night for a hour to two hour walk. I'm a nightowl so these
walks might be around midnight.

I don't see a problem, since this would be an appropriate time to walk
him (when it's cool out). I would suggest snake avoidance classes (They
offer them at many colleges and community colleges, and there are also
snake vaccines. They aren't perfect, but they can buy you an extra few
minutes to get to the vet and to proper care. Also, make sure you kno

As for grooming, I plan to have a dog groomer come to the apartment as often
as the dogs need grooming so it is done right and the dogs get a check-up
each time too.

You're aware that this is no susbstitute for a yearly vet exam, right?


I have young nieces, nephews, and cousins that I would like the dog to
become great pals with.

Slowly introduce them, protect the puppy from being overhandled and
overstressed and it should be smooth sailing.


Now I would love a Labradoodle or Goldendoodle, but I assume they need lots
of space to run around like their pure bred cousins. Given that I will be
in an apartment, I assume those dogs are out of the question. I would
prefer a big dog. I have no interest in small dogs. I would enjoy a dog
that would cozy up with me while I watch TV or curl up at my feet while I
play a computer game.


Big dogs can do just fine in an apartment, provide that they get enough
exercise. Some very big dogs do fine in an apartment, it depends on what
their owner does outside of the apartment with them.


So what kind of a doodle dog would be good for me? :-)

If you want a dog that has a lab or a golden coat shedding style, but has
a courser coat, then go for a doodle. If you want to save your money, get
a dog who might shed as much or might shed a loit less, then go see what
the local animal shelter or rescue has.

Some good sies to read:

http://dog-play.com/ and click on the various activities. Scroll down to
the General Information. Once you're read that, come back and ask more
questions. We'd be happy to deal with them.

natalie

--

One thing about the past.
It's likely to last.
-- Ogden Nash

WIth all that you have explained... a poodle would be an awsome and
fitting dog for you, I know you say the personality doesnt fit
but...All dogs have different personalities...I was not a poodle person
at first either but now i am crazy about my Black standard poodle...And
no one ever knows that it is a poodle, they always ask me what kind of
dog it is!! There is a sport cut for a poodle that makes it look like a
curly coated retreiver!! Its shorn very short yet still baby soft!!
they have awsome attitudes toward strangers and love everyone that
their owners like....I f you properly train your poodle then it will
not bark!! If you would like to ak more questions please email me back
at thank you very much and good luck!!!

"Scott T. Jensen" wrote in message
...
I do know that doodle
dogs get their allergy benefit from poodles, but I just don't like
poodles.
Sorry, I know people love them, but their personality and mine just don't
seem to mix.

How many poodles have you met, and what varieties? Minis have different
personalities from toys, standards have even more different personalities.
Most folks who say they don't like poodles have met one or two spoiled pet
toys or minis and formed a bias against the whole breed. If you've met a
dozen or more of each variety and still do not like the personality, OK -
but in that case you're taking a big risk with a poodle mix.


Now I would love a Labradoodle or Goldendoodle, but I assume they need
lots
of space to run around like their pure bred cousins. Given that I will be
in an apartment, I assume those dogs are out of the question. I would
prefer a big dog. I have no interest in small dogs. I would enjoy a dog
that would cozy up with me while I watch TV or curl up at my feet while I
play a computer game.

So what kind of a doodle dog would be good for me? :-)

An adult dog from a rescue group that has fostered the dog long enough to be
able to discuss the personality and grooming traits with you. Chances are,
any large poodle mix is going to have exercise requirements that you will
need to meet, as would a purebred - this would mean several long walks a
day, or offleash runs in a fenced area. Smaller dogs need exercise too, of
course, but with your plans for hikes etc. you should go with your
preference of a larger dog.
As for a "doodle" - here's a site that can teach you a bit more about this
sham: http://www.canismajor.com/dog/poodogs.html
FWIW there is no possible way to get a "doodle" or any poodle mix as a puppy
and have any idea of what the personality, temperament and grooming needs
will be as an adult. If you dislike the poodle personality but want a low/no
shedding dog, and get a mixed puppy, you run the very high risk of the dog
turning out to have the poodle personality and the coat qualities of the
other parent.
I'd strongly suggest looking into some actual breeds, such as the Portugese
Water Dog and Curly Coated Retriever, as well as contacting some local
all-breed/mixed breed rescue groups to discuss your preferences. You never
know when the perfect dog will be in need of a home. One thing I can
guarantee you - buying an intentionally bred mixed breed puppy from a money
grubbing "greeder" (the only kind who breed these mixes) will not only
support a terrible industry but almost definitely end up poorly.

Christy

"Natalie Rigertas" wrote:
In rec.pets.dogs.breeds Scott T. Jensen wrote:
I have long wanted a dog. Unfortunately, I have an allergy to most dogs.
Not all, but most. It seems to be mainly dogs that shed. Now I hear
about
doodle dogs and how they're ok for people like me. I do know that doodle
dogs get their allergy benefit from poodles, but I just don't like
poodles.
Sorry, I know people love them, but their personality and mine just don't
seem to mix. Given this...

Unfortunately, when mixed with a breed that sheds, only something like
slightly less than 25% of them don't shed. So, already, a bit mlore than
75% of the offspring shed. And by shedding, I mean throwing hair to the
ground and not holding it until brushed. When you pet them, their dander
will get on your hands and your clothing and just spread from there.

What about breeders that breed doodles that have breed generations so the
puppies they produce don't shed? I've read what you're talking about is a
definite gamble with breeders that just take a poodle and the desired second
breed and mix them once for sale.

Then again, is the not shedding the only thing that poodles do as far as
allergies? I thought I read somewhere that their dander causes less
problems for those with allergies.

I would appreciate help determining what kind of doodle dog might be best
for me. Let me tell you what my lifestyle and perhaps that will help.

Whichever one catches your fancy at the pet shelter. They are NOT worth
thousands of dollars, so ignore the cute ones at the pet stores and look
first at their health.

Yes, I read up about this tonight. I will be checking petfinder.com after I
reply to posts here.

I'm hoping to find an apartment within short walking distance of my
office.
The apartment will be a spacious three-bedroom apartment with myself as
its
sole occupant.

Just about any dog does well in the apartment, what matters is what the
other does with the dog!

"the other"???

Especially if I cannot take my dog with me to work, I am seriously
thinking
of getting at least two dogs. This way when they're home alone, they
have
companionship. If it is just two, I'll probably have one be a boy and
the
other a girl as I hear two of the same sex can have problems getting
along
with each other.

I wouldn't start out with getting two pets. They could easily bond better
with each other than with you. You need to create an absolute bond with
each of them, than their createing a bond with each other.

Ok, but that works with the first dog but I don't see how that can work with
the second dog. The first dog will be there then.

I plan to purchase a Jeep and let my dog(s) travel in the backseat area
and
not up front with me, whether or not I have a passenger.

Just get a dog seatbelt and you'll be fine!

Are there any really good dog seatbelts? I want my dog to survive a crash
and so I can easily and quickly unbuckle him to get him free from the car
afterwards.

I like going on long walk-n-reads. I have very good peripheral vision
and
enjoy reading while I walk around town. No, I don't trip or walk out
into
traffic. I would like a dog that will walk with me, not be pulling on
their
leash, and know to stop at curbs. Yes, I'm willing to go through
obedience
training with them for this type of performance. Some days I enjoy going
for a walk-n-read for the entire day and would like to a dog that would
be
up for that. Though, normally, I only do this for four to six hours and
that being on Saturday and/or Sunday. I don't just read, but will stop
and
enjoy the scenery. If I had a dog(s) accompany me, I'd bring along a
frisbee for these times when we come across a park.

Your best bet is an adult dog, at least 2 years of age. Younger than
thisw, they act too puppylike and you have even more issues to deal with
than if you had gotten a slightly older dog.

I've read you should get dogs as puppies so they better bond with you. No?

I like going boulder and low-level mountain climbing. I would love a dog
that is part mountain goat. One that can handle boulder climbing (from
one
boulder to the next) as I have enjoyed doing at Devil's Lake in Wisconsin
(http://www.devilslakewisconsin.com/). That and one that would enjoy
just
doing the climb up a standard low-level mountain. By "low-level", I mean
climbing that doesn't require oxygen tanks.

If you go to the shelter, and pick out a mix that looks like it has high
energy, I bet you're going to end up with a perfect hiking partner. Make
sure they are at least 18 months old and x-ray their hips if you can. The
growth plates should be finished with and you'll have proof that they
aren't growing. YOu can stress them at that point. If you stress hips
that still have open growth plates, you risk permanently damaging the
dog's joints.

I suppose that's saying there's any good climbing hills or boulder mounds
near Dallas. If not, this wouldn't then be an issue.

I am a major extrovert and love having 10-50 people over for a movie
marathon on a Saturday or Sunday. Or mini-marathons on Friday nights. I
also plan to host pre-performance dinners for 10-50 friends before we go
and
see fine arts performances, such as the Dallas Symphony Orchestra.

Getting a dog thgat isn't shy and exoposing it to tons of people is the
best way to make ti feel comfortable in a crowd.

This is one of the main reaons why I'm wanting a Golden Retriever or Lababor
Retriever as they seem very social in the ones I've met and from what I've
read.

I do prefer a cool apartment. When guests are not around, I like the
temperature down around 40-45 degrees. However, if this is too cold for
a
dog that is best suited for the other activities, I am willing to raise
it
higher, but would rather not raise it higher than 68 degrees.

Many, many dogs do just fine at room temps of 60 degrees

I've looked at Newfoundlands due to them preferring the cold so I could
lower the apartment temperature and they being still comfortable. However,
the Newfoundlands I've met are big drooling machines and I just cannot
handle a drooler that well.

How cool can Golden Retreivers handle?

Now I know Dallas is blazingly hot during the summer and I do not plan to
take my dogs out during the hottest time of the day. As I hate heat
myself,
I won't be going out then either. I do plan to go out on those very hot
days late at night for a hour to two hour walk. I'm a nightowl so these
walks might be around midnight.

I don't see a problem, since this would be an appropriate time to walk
him (when it's cool out). I would suggest snake avoidance classes (They
offer them at many colleges and community colleges, and there are also
snake vaccines. They aren't perfect, but they can buy you an extra few
minutes to get to the vet and to proper care.

Also, make sure you kno

What???

As for grooming, I plan to have a dog groomer come to the apartment as
often
as the dogs need grooming so it is done right and the dogs get a check-up
each time too.

You're aware that this is no susbstitute for a yearly vet exam, right?

Of course not. They'll be taken in as often as the vet recommends.

I have young nieces, nephews, and cousins that I would like the dog to
become great pals with.

Slowly introduce them, protect the puppy from being overhandled and
overstressed and it should be smooth sailing.

It sounds like you're saying I should be getting an adult dog anyway.

So what kind of a doodle dog would be good for me? :-)

If you want a dog that has a lab or a golden coat shedding style, but has
a courser coat, then go for a doodle. If you want to save your money, get
a dog who might shed as much or might shed a loit less, then go see what
the local animal shelter or rescue has.

Some good sies to read:

http://dog-play.com/ and click on the various activities. Scroll down to
the General Information. Once you're read that, come back and ask more
questions. We'd be happy to deal with them.

Will do. Thanks for the link.

Scott Jensen
--
Like gum-shoe detective stories? Like free webcomics?
Check out Peb Casey - Private Eye Butterfly!
http://www.users.bigpond.com/toonerfish/peb_comic2.html

"Co" wrote:
WIth all that you have explained... a poodle would be an awsome and
fitting dog for you, I know you say the personality doesnt fit
but...All dogs have different personalities...I was not a poodle person
at first either but now i am crazy about my Black standard poodle...And
no one ever knows that it is a poodle, they always ask me what kind of
dog it is!! There is a sport cut for a poodle that makes it look like a
curly coated retreiver!! Its shorn very short yet still baby soft!!
they have awsome attitudes toward strangers and love everyone that
their owners like....I f you properly train your poodle then it will
not bark!! If you would like to ak more questions please email me back
at thank you very much and good luck!!!

Yes, if I did get a poodle, it would get a sport cut and not what you see in
dog shows. :-P

As for their personality, I'm not saying they have a bad personality. It is
just mine and theirs doesn't mix well.

Yes, one of the most irritating things about poodles and other small dogs is
their barking. Or, to be more accurate, yelping. Even if it wasn't
constant, my ears hate the high-pitched barks they make. Not to mention the
machine gun rate of fire they yelp at.

And I have met quite a few poodles. The ones I've met are not overly social
with strangers and I lead a very social life. I commonly have twice-weekly
medium-size parties (10-50 people) at my place and occasionally larger
parties. I need a dog breed that is very social, likes making new friends,
and can handle large groups. Poodles I've encountered (and that includes
all sizes) commonly end up showing their fangs and barking when exposed to
too many strangers and worse. I just cannot have that in a dog for the
lifestyle I lead.

Scott Jensen

"Christy" wrote:
"Scott T. Jensen" wrote:
I do know that doodle dogs get their allergy benefit from
poodles, but I just don't like poodles. Sorry, I know people
love them, but their personality and mine just don't seem to
mix.

How many poodles have you met, and what varieties? Minis have different
personalities from toys, standards have even more different personalities.
Most folks who say they don't like poodles have met one or two spoiled pet
toys or minis and formed a bias against the whole breed. If you've met a
dozen or more of each variety and still do not like the personality, OK -
but in that case you're taking a big risk with a poodle mix.

I've met all sizes and probably over a hundred. Yes, I would agree that the
toys and minis are the worst, but the standard isn't that much better. See
my reply to Co in this thread for more on this.

Now I would love a Labradoodle or Goldendoodle, but I assume they need
lots
of space to run around like their pure bred cousins. Given that I will
be
in an apartment, I assume those dogs are out of the question. I would
prefer a big dog. I have no interest in small dogs. I would enjoy a dog
that would cozy up with me while I watch TV or curl up at my feet while I
play a computer game.

So what kind of a doodle dog would be good for me? :-)

An adult dog from a rescue group that has fostered the dog long enough to
be
able to discuss the personality and grooming traits with you. Chances are,
any large poodle mix is going to have exercise requirements that you will
need to meet, as would a purebred - this would mean several long walks a
day or offleash runs in a fenced area. Smaller dogs need exercise too, of
course, but with your plans for hikes etc. you should go with your
preference of a larger dog.
As for a "doodle" - here's a site that can teach you a bit more about this
sham: http://www.canismajor.com/dog/poodogs.html

Yes, I've read those things about mixed-breed breeders before.

However, for those of us with allergies, doodles (poodle mix dogs) enables
us to get that much closer to being dog owners of dogs we want. Not
everyone likes poodles. I don't. Telling us "Tough luck. That or
nothing." just doesn't need to be the case. Also, all recognized breeds
I've read about are mutts themselves. Mutt being a mix of different breeds.
"Pure" breeds are just mutts bred to get a desired result and then bred
generation after generation to get that same result and hopefully improve it
a bit in the process. Thus to me, to rip too heavily on doodle dogs seems
to be showing an ignorance of the history of breeds.

Also, I know of people that would love a dog but their spouse or significant
other refuses to have a dog shed over everything. A doodle solves this
problem for them without having them resort to a straight poodle. That
should be something dog lovers should be happy about.

What I find a bit disheartening is non-doodle breeders ripping on doodle
breeders. Again, there is no true "pure" breed. All are just mutts.
Doodles are just another mutt breed. Yes, they're a new mutt breed but all
"pure" breeds were new mutts at one time in their history. And read up on
the first breeder of labradoodles down in Australia and why he breed them.
That's a noble goal and not something anyone should disparage.

FWIW there is no possible way to get a "doodle" or any poodle mix as a
puppy
and have any idea of what the personality, temperament and grooming needs
will be as an adult. If you dislike the poodle personality but want a
low/no
shedding dog, and get a mixed puppy, you run the very high risk of the dog
turning out to have the poodle personality and the coat qualities of the
other parent.

I wouldn't get one from a breeder that just took a poodle and a desired
second breed and mixed them. I would want to see their pedigree, their
history. Find out what the breeder is breeding for. Where they are in
their breeding progress towards that goal.

I'd strongly suggest looking into some actual breeds, such as the
Portugese
Water Dog and Curly Coated Retriever, as well as contacting some local
all-breed/mixed breed rescue groups to discuss your preferences. You never
know when the perfect dog will be in need of a home. One thing I can
guarantee you - buying an intentionally bred mixed breed puppy from a
money
grubbing "greeder" (the only kind who breed these mixes) will not only
support a terrible industry but almost definitely end up poorly.

After doing some reading at the library and from what Natalie Rigertas said
in her reply in this thread, I am going to look into getting an adult dog (2
year plus) from a shelter or rescue group. Not committed to doing this yet,
but am looking into it.

Scott Jensen
--
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Read the white paper "The P2P Revolution" to learn about it.
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On Fri, 11 Nov 2005 00:13:24 -0600, "Scott T. Jensen"
wrote:


I've read you should get dogs as puppies so they better bond with you. No?

NO!!!! This is a common myth, but definitely a myth. In fact, of all
the many dogs I have had in my house, ALL of the most bonded dogs came
here as adults. By far. And I am not the only one who has had rescue
dogs who seem to understand that you have done them a huge favor and
make it their life's work to never take you for granted.

--
Paula
"Anyway, other people are weird, but sometimes they have candy, so it's best to try to get along with them." Joe Bay

"Scott T. Jensen" wrote in message
...

I've met all sizes and probably over a hundred. Yes, I would agree that
the
toys and minis are the worst, but the standard isn't that much better.
See
my reply to Co in this thread for more on this.

As I mentioned, if you don't like the poodle temperament, you're taking a
terrible risk in seeking out a dog that is part poodle. I'm a bit boggled
that you are apparently an intelligent person but you cannot see that.


However, for those of us with allergies, doodles (poodle mix dogs) enables
us to get that much closer to being dog owners of dogs we want. Not
everyone likes poodles. I don't. Telling us "Tough luck. That or
nothing." just doesn't need to be the case.

No one has said that. What they have said is that poodle mixes are NOT
guaranteed to be non-allergenic, non-shedding, or to have any of the other
qualities that you seek, regardless of what the people who are trying to
sell puppies might tell you. People with allergies should seek out breeds or
individual dogs that do not stimulate an allergic response, or take
medicines to prevent that response. That does not equate to "buy a mixed
breed puppy and hope it grows up to be non-allergenic and has my desired
personality traits."

Also, all recognized breeds
I've read about are mutts themselves.

Well, you either have read very poorly researched books or you have not been
successful in comprehending what you read. I have read many dog books and
have never read anything similar to what you've written above.

Mutt being a mix of different breeds.
"Pure" breeds are just mutts bred to get a desired result and then bred
generation after generation to get that same result and hopefully improve
it
a bit in the process.

Absolutely, positively incorrect. Many breeds were formed by man, with a
specific idea of the end result, but a great many other breeds are ancient
and have simply been refined over the years by fanciers. Just try to find
out who invented the Basenji, if you don't believe me.
The process of developing a breed involves much more than just breeding
mutts generation after generation, and that isn't what these poodle mix
breeders are doing anyway - they are just breeding first generation crosses
and giving them cutesy names and good sales pitches to pull in the suckers.


Thus to me, to rip too heavily on doodle dogs seems
to be showing an ignorance of the history of breeds.

There is ignorance being shown on this thread, but not by anyone who has
responded to you.


Also, I know of people that would love a dog but their spouse or
significant
other refuses to have a dog shed over everything. A doodle solves this
problem for them without having them resort to a straight poodle. That
should be something dog lovers should be happy about.

Sorry, but when actual purebreds exist that fill these needs, I see no
reason to be happy about greedy puppymillers and backyard breeders profiting
on misery and lies. But that's just me.


What I find a bit disheartening is non-doodle breeders ripping on doodle
breeders.

I don't believe anyone who answered you is a breeder, but regardless, anyone
with a knowledge and understanding of responsible breeding practices will
"rip" on these folks breeding poodle mixes for money.

Again, there is no true "pure" breed. All are just mutts.

OK, I gotta ask - please give me a cite for these claims. I gotta check out
these books you've been reading!



Doodles are just another mutt breed. Yes, they're a new mutt breed but
all
"pure" breeds were new mutts at one time in their history. And read up on
the first breeder of labradoodles down in Australia and why he breed them.
That's a noble goal and not something anyone should disparage.

Read up on why that experiment failed - the poodle mixes did not have either
the low maintenance coat or the appropriate temperament for the use they
were intended for, and those breedings ceased. The only folks breeding those
dogs now are puppymillers and backyard breeders.


I wouldn't get one from a breeder that just took a poodle and a desired
second breed and mixed them. I would want to see their pedigree, their
history. Find out what the breeder is breeding for. Where they are in
their breeding progress towards that goal.

Good luck with that! Make sure to ask for the multi generational health
testing, i.e. CERF, OFA, BAER, heart, patella, epilepsy, etc. including not
just depth but breadth of pedigree. If you don't comprehend that sentence,
read a few more books.
BTW, you will not find a single breeder producing poodle mixes who could
meet the general standards of responsible breeding - proving dogs
breedworthy through showing/working and health testing as well as pedigree
research prior to carefully screening homes placing on strict spay/neuter
requirements with a return clause. Not one. I've spent years asking for one
single breeder who meets those standards, and so far, zip, zilch, bupkus. So
good luck finding them!

After doing some reading at the library and from what Natalie Rigertas
said
in her reply in this thread, I am going to look into getting an adult dog
(2
year plus) from a shelter or rescue group. Not committed to doing this
yet,
but am looking into it.

Well, that's a plus. I think from your responses, you've completely closed
your mind to any education, but I'm hopeful someone else out there reads
this and realizes they were about to be suckered into a huge mistake.

Christy

on 2005-11-11 at 07:22 wrote:

NO!!!! This is a common myth, but definitely a myth.

no kidding. it is for to laugh! thankfully, harriet cannot
read such silliness, so she has no idea that she's not
supposed to be well and truly bonded to me.

to the OP: i got this dog at 7 months old--long past her cute
puppy stage. she took about ten minutes to bond to me and has
been on a mission to crawl into my skin ever since. so, be
careful what you ask for. y0u hAv3 b33n wArn3d.

In fact, of all the many dogs I have had in my house, ALL of
the most bonded dogs came here as adults. By far. And I am
not the only one who has had rescue dogs who seem to
understand that you have done them a huge favor and make it
their life's work to never take you for granted.

i've had puppies and adults, and haven't seen a difference in
the way the two have bonded to me. IME the dog-human bond
depends on the dog's temperament and the quality of your
interactions with the dog, not on the age at which you obtain
the dog. personally, i don't feel any desire to ever have a
puppy again. they're cute enough, but i think they're a
hideous amount of work (have i mentioned that i'm lazy?).
i'd rather let someone else do the hard part, then come in and
take the dog off their hands when they get tired of it and
it's not so cute anymore.

my advice for the OP is to try to figure out what sort of dog
best suits his lifestyle, then look at rescue groups or local
shelters for an adult dog. with an adult, what you see is
pretty much what you get, so there will be fewer surprises.
like, ferinstance, getting some poo mix puppy and finding out
that its coat and personality are thoroughly Poodle-like. as
not to cast asparagus at Poodles, but the OP has expressed a
dislike for them, so why he'd want to risk getting exactly
what he *doesn't*--apparently--like is a mystery to me.

--
shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net
http://cat-sidh.blogspot.com/