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  #1  
Old November 22nd 05, 05:46 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default newgroup etiguette

Why did I cross post?
....because the emails came from persons in more than one group
and one such email came with a security violation...making me unwilling
to respond to the emails directly.

A newbie?
....way off....off by nearly 14 years.

to whomever tried to virus me...
nice try. I have traced the first 4 routing servers, I should know who
you are by the end of the day.


Posted by MS
" This is a discussion group. Advertisements are
inappropriate. If Usenet were overrun by advertisers
(and
the only reason that it's not is that there's a large
and
active group of people working to prevent it every
single
day) it would not be useful for discussion, or much
else."

....and we are so proud of you. So you have made it your mission to determine
what we are allowed to see and to post? So what of those whom actually are
trying to be helpful or share useful information....how do you seperate
those from your rather widely cast spam net? Who are you to determine what
is allowed and not allowed? What are your qualifications for determining
what the rest of us are allowed to see and or read?

" You know, there might be reason to think I have a
better
handle on this issue than you do, not the least of
which is
that I don't fall for phony ads posted as helpful
hints."

....a better handle on this than I do...again you seem to think I am unable
to determine what it is I choose to investigate or what I do not. Do you own
any Sony products? Played a Sony CD on your computer? How about a
MasterCard? Canon software? Disney cd's and or movies? Hardware from
Creative? Innotek? Do you shop at Wal-Mart? I do not think you truely have a
true grasp on spam sources at all...
I do not like advertising in the groups anymore than anyone else...but I am
not so inclined to make efforts to determine the intentions of others based
on a single post. Your rather interesting ethical objection and apparent
need to educate the rest of us "unwashed masses" on what we should and
should not do in the groups is...quite truthfully...the first steps of
censorship of the groups. I do not disagree with efforts to stop spam...I
just think your particular view and or definition of it is dangerous.
Just last week a friend of mine, who believes strongly in a certian
product...believes it saved her dogs life...posted about it in another
forum...a forum she sincerely enjoyed and found very helpful in dealing with
her problematic dog. Someone like you started a crusade to have her kicked
from the forum for spamming. All she wanted was to share her experience with
the group in the hope that the product may help another dog/family. Your
opinion is dangerous and irresponsible and in serious need of refinement.

if you do not like what you read...filter it...it is why the filters were
made.



Shelly posted:

" offend? i think you may be reading too much into the
responses to your posts. just because someone takes
issue
with something you've written does not mean they found
it
offensive."

....I wish I would not have deleted the emails I recieved. There was no
reading anything into anything...they were VERY clear!


the last thing I am going to say about this...
public is public...good and bad. It is not public so long as it agrees with
your sensibilities...it is just simply public. While I do not appreciate a
good number of posts I come across, I rarely find the need to comment on
those posts. Why? Agree or disagree this is a public forum! I can
appreciate posts, even those I do not agree with, so long as those posts
hold some critcal value or are intended as helpful. Post that offer ONLY
criticism and/or make attempts to limit posters or convey some abject
morallity are not needed. People are free to take issue with
anything...taking issue is one thing, finger pointing, accusations, self
serving assumptions without proof or basis, and rude emails are another
thing all together. My point is...go ahead and take issue, that what this is
all about, but if you take issue be sure that the issue you have taken has
merit and is based on some other source than your own peculiar
sensibilities.

"...there are no degrees of either truth or freedom. Limit either, in even
the smallest fashion, and they cease to be."


  #2  
Old November 22nd 05, 06:05 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default newgroup etiguette

In article ,
RobDar wrote:
nice try. I have traced the first 4 routing servers, I should know who
you are by the end of the day.


Chances are that it came from a zombie. Good luck with
that.

...and we are so proud of you. So you have made it your mission to determine
what we are allowed to see and to post?


No, but with your "14 years of experience" you should be
aware that ads really aren't acceptable anywhere on Usenet
except in groups specifically created to carry ads, and that
topicality and overall whateverness evolve on the basis of
participant consensus. One of the characteristics of
consensus is that it does tend to be pretty robust against
some stranger wandering in and trying to blow it all to
hell.

What are your qualifications for determining
what the rest of us are allowed to see and or read?


If you're trying to use Usenet to do your shopping, you
certainly can do that. Look for groups with things like
".forsale" and ".marketplace" in their names. However, if
you really think that the namespace should be flat
(unstructured) and that everybody should post about
everything everywhere, I encourage you to take dog
discussions to comp.unix.wizards and see how it goes.

I do not think you truely have a
true grasp on spam sources at all...


I think I probably do. Aside from over 20 years experience
on Usenet as both an administrator (in the 1980s) and as a
user, I'm a technical leader in the advanced cryptographic
development organization of the security technologies group
with the largest network equipment vendor. Among other
things I've been involved in anti-spam technology
development efforts both within the company and within
international standards bodies (and ain't it going
*great*?). Mostly, however, I work on access controls and
authorization mechanisms.

if you do not like what you read...filter it...it is why the filters were
made.


Encouraging people to killfile your posts would seem, at
least, to be consistent with creating webpages that people
can't read. You're apparently what we call a "write-only"
participant.

"...there are no degrees of either truth or freedom. Limit either, in even
the smallest fashion, and they cease to be."


Good heavens - libertoonian claptrap. It's precisely
constraints on behavior (for example, criminalizing things
like robbery, murder, and fraud) that allow broad social and
economic freedoms in the first place. Americans understood
markets and capitalism better 100 years ago than we do
today.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community
  #3  
Old November 22nd 05, 06:10 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default newgroup etiguette

on 2005-11-22 at 10:46 wrote:

Why did I cross post?


i didn't accuse you of cross posting. you didn't. you posted
two separate articles in two separate newsgroups. one of
those newsgroups is one in which off-topic discussions are
frowned upon. considering that there was no discussion of the
points you addressed in that newsgroup, it strikes me as odd
that you'd repost your OP there.

A newbie?


newbieness is not a matter of chronology.

...and we are so proud of you. So you have made it your
mission to determine what we are allowed to see and to post?


no. the newsgroup charter is where appropriate content for
this group is laid out.

So what of those whom actually are trying to be helpful or
share useful information....how do you seperate those from
your rather widely cast spam net?


it's usually fairly simple.

Who are you to determine what is allowed and not allowed?
What are your qualifications for determining what the rest of
us are allowed to see and or read?


it's an unmoderated group. that means that anyone can post
anything to it. so, yeah, you can spam the group to your
heart's content. however, if you do, others can call you on
your rude and obnoxious behavior.

...a better handle on this than I do...


the rest of us "unwashed masses" on what we should and should
not do in the groups is...quite truthfully...the first steps
of censorship of the groups.


i'm always amused when someone cries "censorship!" in an
unmoderated forum. it is for to laugh!

if you do not like what you read...filter it...it is why the
filters were made.


hey pot, i think the kettle is calling you.

...I wish I would not have deleted the emails I recieved.
There was no reading anything into anything...they were VERY
clear!


i don't give a rat's arse about e-mails you might have
received. unless they were posted to this group, they are
irrelevant to the discussion.

disagree this is a public forum! I can appreciate posts,
even those I do not agree with, so long as those posts hold
some critcal value or are intended as helpful. Post that
offer ONLY criticism and/or make attempts to limit posters or
convey some abject morallity are not needed.


wait, weren't you just bitching about other people holding
your posts to a certain standard? and you're doing the same
thing? sheesh.

together. My point is...go ahead and take issue, that what
this is all about, but if you take issue be sure that the
issue you have taken has merit and is based on some other
source than your own peculiar sensibilities.


guess what? you don't get to dictate what i or anyone else
takes issue with, or how we express our dissatisfaction.

"...there are no degrees of either truth or freedom. Limit
either, in even the smallest fashion, and they cease to be."


that would perhaps be more meaningful if you hadn't just told
people how to comport themselves.

--
shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net
http://cat-sidh.blogspot.com/
  #4  
Old November 22nd 05, 06:57 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default newgroup etiguette

"RobDar" said in
rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

A newbie?
...way off....off by nearly 14 years.


Why did you remove the references? As a stand-alone post, and
with the formatting and quoting styles you choose, your post
doesn't make a lot of sense.

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
  #5  
Old November 22nd 05, 07:10 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default newgroup etiguette

on 2005-11-22 at 17:57 wrote:

Why did you remove the references? As a stand-alone post,
and with the formatting and quoting styles you choose, your
post doesn't make a lot of sense.


he's not a newbie, though.

--
shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net
http://cat-sidh.blogspot.com/
  #6  
Old November 22nd 05, 07:23 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default newgroup etiguette

You are truely entertaining person....

"Melinda Shore" wrote in message
...
In article ,
RobDar wrote:
nice try. I have traced the first 4 routing servers, I should know
who
you are by the end of the day.


Chances are that it came from a zombie. Good luck with
that.

...and we are so proud of you. So you have made it your mission to
determine
what we are allowed to see and to post?


No, but with your "14 years of experience" you should be
aware that ads really aren't acceptable anywhere on Usenet
except in groups specifically created to carry ads, and that
topicality and overall whateverness evolve on the basis of
participant consensus. One of the characteristics of
consensus is that it does tend to be pretty robust against
some stranger wandering in and trying to blow it all to
hell.

What are your qualifications for determining
what the rest of us are allowed to see and or read?


If you're trying to use Usenet to do your shopping, you
certainly can do that. Look for groups with things like
".forsale" and ".marketplace" in their names. However, if
you really think that the namespace should be flat
(unstructured) and that everybody should post about
everything everywhere, I encourage you to take dog
discussions to comp.unix.wizards and see how it goes.

I do not think you truely have a
true grasp on spam sources at all...


I think I probably do. Aside from over 20 years experience
on Usenet as both an administrator (in the 1980s) and as a
user, I'm a technical leader in the advanced cryptographic
development organization of the security technologies group
with the largest network equipment vendor. Among other
things I've been involved in anti-spam technology
development efforts both within the company and within
international standards bodies (and ain't it going
*great*?). Mostly, however, I work on access controls and
authorization mechanisms.

if you do not like what you read...filter it...it is why the filters were
made.


Encouraging people to killfile your posts would seem, at
least, to be consistent with creating webpages that people
can't read. You're apparently what we call a "write-only"
participant.

"...there are no degrees of either truth or freedom. Limit either, in even
the smallest fashion, and they cease to be."


Good heavens - libertoonian claptrap. It's precisely
constraints on behavior (for example, criminalizing things
like robbery, murder, and fraud) that allow broad social and
economic freedoms in the first place. Americans understood
markets and capitalism better 100 years ago than we do
today.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community



  #7  
Old November 22nd 05, 07:25 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default newgroup etiguette

In article ,
RobDar wrote:
You are truely entertaining person....


So I've been told.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community
  #8  
Old November 22nd 05, 07:46 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default newgroup etiguette

Melinda:
you have completely missed the point...
I agree ads do not belong here. This was never in question.

and as impressive as your professional qualifications may be...again, not
the point.
You make assumptions, without basis...that is the point.


"Melinda Shore" wrote in message
...
In article ,
RobDar wrote:
nice try. I have traced the first 4 routing servers, I should know
who
you are by the end of the day.


Chances are that it came from a zombie. Good luck with
that.

...and we are so proud of you. So you have made it your mission to
determine
what we are allowed to see and to post?


No, but with your "14 years of experience" you should be
aware that ads really aren't acceptable anywhere on Usenet
except in groups specifically created to carry ads, and that
topicality and overall whateverness evolve on the basis of
participant consensus. One of the characteristics of
consensus is that it does tend to be pretty robust against
some stranger wandering in and trying to blow it all to
hell.

What are your qualifications for determining
what the rest of us are allowed to see and or read?


If you're trying to use Usenet to do your shopping, you
certainly can do that. Look for groups with things like
".forsale" and ".marketplace" in their names. However, if
you really think that the namespace should be flat
(unstructured) and that everybody should post about
everything everywhere, I encourage you to take dog
discussions to comp.unix.wizards and see how it goes.

I do not think you truely have a
true grasp on spam sources at all...


I think I probably do. Aside from over 20 years experience
on Usenet as both an administrator (in the 1980s) and as a
user, I'm a technical leader in the advanced cryptographic
development organization of the security technologies group
with the largest network equipment vendor. Among other
things I've been involved in anti-spam technology
development efforts both within the company and within
international standards bodies (and ain't it going
*great*?). Mostly, however, I work on access controls and
authorization mechanisms.

if you do not like what you read...filter it...it is why the filters were
made.


Encouraging people to killfile your posts would seem, at
least, to be consistent with creating webpages that people
can't read. You're apparently what we call a "write-only"
participant.

"...there are no degrees of either truth or freedom. Limit either, in even
the smallest fashion, and they cease to be."


Good heavens - libertoonian claptrap. It's precisely
constraints on behavior (for example, criminalizing things
like robbery, murder, and fraud) that allow broad social and
economic freedoms in the first place. Americans understood
markets and capitalism better 100 years ago than we do
today.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community



  #9  
Old November 22nd 05, 07:51 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default newgroup etiguette

on 2005-11-22 at 12:46 wrote:

you have completely missed the point...


you had a point?

also, you might want to take a moment to consider acceptable
posting formats, which include bottom posting and trimming.
not that i'm accusing you of being a newbie or anything...

--
shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net
http://cat-sidh.blogspot.com/
  #10  
Old November 22nd 05, 07:51 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default newgroup etiguette

In article ,
RobDar wrote:
you have completely missed the point...
I agree ads do not belong here. This was never in question.


Of course it was, as soon as you introduced the censorship
argu[e!]ment.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community
 




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