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Is this racist? snipped from another NG



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 9th 03, 05:00 PM
dejablues
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Default Is this racist? snipped from another NG

This was posted in another NG . How would you answer it?



"I'm driving behind a white GMC Jimmy SUV and it has exactly one bumper
sticker on it that says, "I hunt black and tans". I'm looking at this
with my mouth open thinking they MUST be talking about dogs, they
can't really be talking about lynching, can they? I look closer to see if
there's a tiny "with" in there. Nope, but there's a silhouette which I
finally figure out (at a stop light when I can study it) is a dog barking
up a tree trunk.

I told my husband how scandalized I was by the poor taste of this bumper
sticker. He said that he didn't take it that way and he couldn't imagine
that the people who put that bumper sticker up thought that way. I said
that the double entendre was the whole POINT of putting up that bumper
sticker. He said I was off my rocker and way too cynical.

Opinions? Am I just nuts to think anyone would be that horrid? I *do*
tend to be cynical (and that's a trait my husband deplores.) I'm also
putting together a study unit on the Restoration of the American South
through to the Civil Rights movement, so racism is on my mind. "

name, see red


  #2  
Old August 9th 03, 05:47 PM
Rocky
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dejablues said in rec.pets.dogs.breeds:

"I'm driving behind a white GMC Jimmy SUV and it has
exactly one bumper sticker on it that says, "I hunt black
and tans".


Phraseology like "I hunt black and tans" is common, in my
experience, for "I use black and tans to hunt". Black and Tan
being a Coonhound variety.

I'm looking at this with my mouth open thinking
they MUST be talking about dogs, they can't really be
talking about lynching, can they? I look closer to see if
there's a tiny "with" in there. Nope, but there's a
silhouette which I finally figure out (at a stop light when
I can study it) is a dog barking up a tree trunk.


Coonhounds hunt by treeing their prey and then vocalise to bring
their handler in.

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
  #3  
Old August 9th 03, 06:20 PM
queenmother
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"Rocky" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
dejablues said in rec.pets.dogs.breeds:

"I'm driving behind a white GMC Jimmy SUV and it has
exactly one bumper sticker on it that says, "I hunt black
and tans".


Phraseology like "I hunt black and tans" is common, in my
experience, for "I use black and tans to hunt". Black and Tan
being a Coonhound variety.

I'm looking at this with my mouth open thinking
they MUST be talking about dogs, they can't really be
talking about lynching, can they? I look closer to see if
there's a tiny "with" in there. Nope, but there's a
silhouette which I finally figure out (at a stop light when
I can study it) is a dog barking up a tree trunk.


Coonhounds hunt by treeing their prey and then vocalise to bring
their handler in.


I gotta agree with Matt here. I think your present project has shifted your
brane in that direction. I can see where you went with it, but I *never*
would have thought twice about it.

The phrase "hunt with" is quite often reduced to just "hunt" - my DH won't
have a beagle because he just doesn't have enough time to hunt him as much
as he'd like. (Now granted, if your beagle doesn't have a reliable recall,
you *do* spend more time hunting him than hunting with him!)

~~Judy


  #4  
Old August 11th 03, 04:47 AM
Sionnach
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"I'm driving behind a white GMC Jimmy SUV and it has exactly one bumper
sticker on it that says, "I hunt black and tans". I'm looking at this
with my mouth open thinking they MUST be talking about dogs,


Yes, they're talking about dogs. Black and Tan Coonhounds, to be precise.
Black and Tans are one of the six Coonhound breeds (the others being
Redbone, Treeing Walker, English, Plott, and Bluetick), which are American
scenthounds, used in hunting raccoons and other varmints.
"I hunt dog breed" means "I use dog breed to hunt".



they
can't really be talking about lynching, can they?


No, they're not.


Nope, but there's a silhouette which I
finally figure out (at a stop light when I can study it) is a dog barking
up a tree trunk.


That's because that's what Coonhounds do when they hunt- they bring the
prey to bay, and hold it until the human hunter gets there to shoot it. Most
often, they're used to hunt racoons and possums, which go up trees- that's
what the picture is of: the dog barking up a tree at prey.



I told my husband how scandalized I was by the poor taste of this bumper
sticker.


If I were your husband, I'd have fallen down laughing at that point.
Sorry, but I would! There's no "poor taste" in a hunter having a bumper
sticker about his dogs.

I said
that the double entendre was the whole POINT of putting up that bumper
sticker.


There's no "double entendre" anywhere but in YOUR mind, sorry!


Opinions? Am I just nuts to think anyone would be that horrid?


You're not nuts to think somebody would be that horrid, but you're dead
wrong about that particular bumper sticker.


racism is on my mind.


Yep. But not on that bumper sticker, sorry. I'm willing to bet that the
same company that made the bumper sticker you saw makes ones that say "I
hunt Redbones", "I hunt Walkers", "I hunt Jack Russells", "I hunt Feists",
etc.
Do those look "racist" to you?



--
Sarah
Brenin, CGC, AD, O-EAC-V, O-EJC-V, EGC
Gwydion, Handy Cat
Morag Thistledown, Novice Triple Superior, S-OAC, S-OJC, O-OGC, EJC
Robyn Meezer, Inspector of Human Activity
Rocsi Cadarn, S-NJC, NAC, NGTG, OGTG

we can be seen at: http://photos.yahoo.com/amberdogs1
and http://photos.yahoo.com/amberdogs2

"dejablues" wrote in message
...
This was posted in another NG . How would you answer it?



name, see red




  #5  
Old August 11th 03, 05:06 AM
Sionnach
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Default

Yes, they're talking about dogs. Black and Tan Coonhounds, to be
precise.
Black and Tans are one of the six Coonhound breeds (the others being
Redbone, Treeing Walker, English, Plott, and Bluetick), which are American
scenthounds, used in hunting raccoons and other varmints.
"I hunt dog breed" means "I use dog breed to hunt".



Forgot to add: For more information, see www.coonhoundcentral.com , and
http://ukcdogs.com/breeds/scenthounds/index.shtml .
And here's a site with links on Black and Tans, and some pictures of
coonhounds baying up trees:

http://members.aol.com/trailhound/blackandtan.html

Note: the dogs in those pictures aren't Black and Tans. The one on the left
is a Bluetick, the one on the right is a Treeing Walker.

--
Sarah
Brenin, CGC, AD, O-EAC-V, O-EJC-V, EGC
Gwydion, Handy Cat
Morag Thistledown, Novice Triple Superior, S-OAC, S-OJC, O-OGC, EJC
Robyn Meezer, Inspector of Human Activity
Rocsi Cadarn, S-NJC, NAC, NGTG, OGTG

we can be seen at: http://photos.yahoo.com/amberdogs1
and http://photos.yahoo.com/amberdogs2


  #6  
Old August 11th 03, 01:10 PM
Melinda Shore
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Default

In article ,
Sionnach wrote:
There's no "double entendre" anywhere but in YOUR mind, sorry!


I think she misread the bumper sticker, as well, but I don't
think it's appropriate to be quite this dismissive.
Unfortunately there's still a lot of loaded language around
race in the US and it's not always clear what some people
mean when they say certain things or display certain
symbols. With racial gaps starting to widen again I think
it's cool when people try to be aware of how loaded
ambiguous language can be.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

If you don't understand how things are connected, the cause of
problems is solutions -- Amory Lovins
  #7  
Old August 11th 03, 01:37 PM
Countdown to 55
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I think she misread the bumper sticker, as well, but I don't
think it's appropriate to be quite this dismissive.
Unfortunately there's still a lot of loaded language around
race in the US and it's not always clear what some people
mean when they say certain things or display certain
symbols. With racial gaps starting to widen again I think
it's cool when people try to be aware of how loaded
ambiguous language can be.


It's a shame that people always have to be on the lookout for what might be
construed as insensitivities, but personally, I feel it's necessary,
particularly in the States where racism is still rampant, openly in some parts
of the country, more subtle in other parts, but it's there.

I recently wrote a poem about two little black girls and one big fat-assed
black girl eatin' mulberries out in the backyard. I was talking about my two
Schipperkes and my Belgian Sheepdog, I wasn't even thinking in the slightest
that it could be read a different way. Unfortunately, it was taken the wrong
way by some people, they took offense, and in rereading the poem, I can
certainly understand their feelings.

If there are a lot of breeds with that type of bumper sticker, why not print "I
hunt with Black & Tans" instead? Surely the little "with" in there wouldn't
cost much to add and then any sense of double entendre would be gone. If they
weren't willing to do something like that, I would wonder if the double meaning
wasn't intentional. I know a lot of people in my neck of the woods who would
buy the bumper sticker just *for* the double meaning unfortunately even tho
they never owned a Black & Tan in their life and wouldn't recognize one if they
tripped over it.

Cindy





  #8  
Old August 11th 03, 09:54 PM
dejablues
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Default

http://www.huntsmart.com/index.cfm/f...l-1417/ss/1417

Someone actually found a link to the exact same bumper sticker. I'm with
you, calling it racist was a really reaaaaaaaly big stretch. :-)





"Sionnach" wrote in message
...
"I'm driving behind a white GMC Jimmy SUV and it has exactly one bumper
sticker on it that says, "I hunt black and tans". I'm looking at this
with my mouth open thinking they MUST be talking about dogs,


Yes, they're talking about dogs. Black and Tan Coonhounds, to be

precise.
Black and Tans are one of the six Coonhound breeds (the others being
Redbone, Treeing Walker, English, Plott, and Bluetick), which are American
scenthounds, used in hunting raccoons and other varmints.
"I hunt dog breed" means "I use dog breed to hunt".



they
can't really be talking about lynching, can they?


No, they're not.


Nope, but there's a silhouette which I
finally figure out (at a stop light when I can study it) is a dog

barking
up a tree trunk.


That's because that's what Coonhounds do when they hunt- they bring the
prey to bay, and hold it until the human hunter gets there to shoot it.

Most
often, they're used to hunt racoons and possums, which go up trees- that's
what the picture is of: the dog barking up a tree at prey.



I told my husband how scandalized I was by the poor taste of this bumper
sticker.


If I were your husband, I'd have fallen down laughing at that point.
Sorry, but I would! There's no "poor taste" in a hunter having a bumper
sticker about his dogs.

I said
that the double entendre was the whole POINT of putting up that bumper
sticker.


There's no "double entendre" anywhere but in YOUR mind, sorry!


Opinions? Am I just nuts to think anyone would be that horrid?


You're not nuts to think somebody would be that horrid, but you're dead
wrong about that particular bumper sticker.


racism is on my mind.


Yep. But not on that bumper sticker, sorry. I'm willing to bet that the
same company that made the bumper sticker you saw makes ones that say "I
hunt Redbones", "I hunt Walkers", "I hunt Jack Russells", "I hunt Feists",
etc.
Do those look "racist" to you?



--
Sarah
Brenin, CGC, AD, O-EAC-V, O-EJC-V, EGC
Gwydion, Handy Cat
Morag Thistledown, Novice Triple Superior, S-OAC, S-OJC, O-OGC, EJC
Robyn Meezer, Inspector of Human Activity
Rocsi Cadarn, S-NJC, NAC, NGTG, OGTG

we can be seen at: http://photos.yahoo.com/amberdogs1
and http://photos.yahoo.com/amberdogs2

"dejablues" wrote in message
...
This was posted in another NG . How would you answer it?



name, see red






  #9  
Old August 11th 03, 10:26 PM
sionnach
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Posts: n/a
Default


"Melinda Shore" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Sionnach wrote:
There's no "double entendre" anywhere but in YOUR mind, sorry!


I think she misread the bumper sticker, as well, but I don't
think it's appropriate to be quite this dismissive.


shrug I see absolutely no "double entendre" in the statement "I hunt
Black and Tans". If she had seen a sticker that said "I hunt black*s* and
tans", I can
*maybe* see interpreting it as a "double entendre. The fact that there was
no plural on the first word, and
that Black and Tan was capitalized (she doesn't say so in her post, but I've
*seen* the slogan more than once, and it's always capitalized), should have
given her a clue as to the fact that there is such a thing as a "Black and
Tan", singular.
Correctly reading "Black and Tans" as the plural of "Black and Tan" would
have given her a clue that it referred to a breed of dog- and plugging
"Black and Tan" into any search engine (if she can post to USENET, she has
access to search engines) would have told her that the phrase refers to the
following: 1. a breed of Coonhounds 2. a particular coat pattern in dogs 3.
an alcoholic drink 4. a record company specializing in blues records 5. a
paramilitary force which fought against the Sinn Fein. (I didn't need a
search engine for those definitions, btw- I already knew all of them. G)

In any case, I've never heard even the most virulently racist
people I know (I've lived in Baltimore for 30 years, so believe me, I hear
racist crap all the time) refer to someone of another race as "tan".
"Brown", yes, "tan", no.

Unfortunately there's still a lot of loaded language around
race in the US and it's not always clear what some people
mean when they say certain things or display certain
symbols. With racial gaps starting to widen again I think
it's cool when people try to be aware of how loaded
ambiguous language can be.


There's a difference between being aware of ambiguous language, and of the
possible implications of what you say innocently, and projecting racism into
an image and statement that just doesn't warrant it. In this case, the
percieved "double entendre" is due more to incorrectly reading the language
and to ignorance of dogs than to reality.
IMO, getting all indignant about something BEFORE exercising one's common
sense and finding out what was really meant is just as injurious- sometimes
more so- than ignoring possible implications.



  #10  
Old August 11th 03, 10:43 PM
sionnach
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Default


"dejablues" wrote in message
...

http://www.huntsmart.com/index.cfm/f...l-1417/ss/1417

Someone actually found a link to the exact same bumper sticker. I'm with
you, calling it racist was a really reaaaaaaaly big stretch. :-)


Heh. And I was right- they have "I hunt Redbones", "I hunt Curs", etc.
My favorite: "I'm a smart hunter. I RIDE A MULE."

Now, in the "double entendre" and "racial sensitivity" department: were I
in their shoes, I think I'd opt for the full spelling of the word "raccoon"-
since there's unfortunately NO doubt about the fact that "coon" has a double
meaning. :-(


 




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