I've been googliong this group, but am hoping some of you can answer
several questions in one post.

We live in Wolcott CT have beautiful 2 year old Aussie who I power walk
extensively (an hour or two each night). We also have an 8 YO Pom who
doesn't spends time in the back yard and walks around the block. We
also have three indoor cats.

Before last week, I've never seen a Tick on the Aussie. All of our pets
were on Frontline all last year and it seemingly worked fine. In
October we discontinued it until spring. About ten days ago, I found
two ticks on the Aussie's fur, not attached. Thankfully, she is a
Unique Aussie in that she is almost all white and very light tan, so
the local black ticks are quite visible. OTOH, she's between trimmings
and hasn't started to shed and is quite bushy. I found two more over
the next two days, one attached and one not. I removed them both. We
were still waiting for the Frontline we ordered over the internet to
arrive, but in a panic, we went out and bought more and applied it to
all the pets. That was a Wednesday. On Saturday morning, I found two
more attached, and not far from where we applied the FL. I assumed they
were dead because their sacs were seemingly empty. Then last night
before our walk, five days after the FL application, I found another
attached in the spot where wee applied the FL, alive when I pulled it
off. I also pulled off two more unattached after our walk.

My questions:

1. Is the Frontline not working? We were under the impression that any
tics, attached or unattached, should begin to fall off as soon as we
applied the FL. Five days later, there was at least one more, still
alive, and judging by it's size, it attached after the appication.

2. Can/should we apply another tube of FL?

3. I check her every night. I flip through her hair with my fingers and
massage her entire body with my hands, concentrating on her upper body.
I have found attached ticks on the back of her neck, her shoulder
blades and between her front legs. Is there a secret to checking her?
Something I should look for?

4. I check the pom and the cats as well, but not as thoroughly as the
Aussie. Should I? They all have FL.

5. She's scheduled for a bath and a trim Thursday. We will of course
tell the groomer about the tics. Is there anything the gorrmer can do?
Any treatment? I will also tell the groomer to trim both dogs very
tight for their own comfort and my ease of checking them.

6. Is Lyme disease the worst case scenario? How long does a tick need
to be attached before syptoms occur? Anything else tics can cause?
Symptoms of Lyme in dogs: Loss of appetite, lack of energy, moodiness,
lethargy. Anything else? So far, her appetite, energy level and
personality are unchanged. She's a little tired at night, but so am I,
as we've recently increased the length of our walks dramatically. Her
reflexes, alertness and effciency are unchanged.

7. Are ticks present on all vegatation? Since these problems, I've
tried to keep her on the road, but where I live, there's too much
vegetation to avoid it totally. I've gotten ticks on my person in my
own back yard, and I suspect she has too. Also, she loves the trails in
the woods, and the parks as she doesn't need to be held so close on her
leash. Should I completely avoid these areas? That would suck for her.

I will call the vet later, and not rely on information I receive here
as gospel, but it can't hurt me to get other perspectives. Any help is
appreciated. Thanks


Carl in CT

wrote in message:

My questions:

1. Is the Frontline not working? We were under the impression that any
tics, attached or unattached, should begin to fall off as soon as we
applied the FL.

Frontline is not 100% against ticks (this from the manufacturer and the
vet). They're not soft bodied like fleas, which makes it more difficult for
Frontline to kill them. The way it works, Frontline has to first be
absorbed into the dog's oil glands and then redistibuted into the hair;
insects that walk on the hair get it on themselves, which gets absorbed into
their own body, and since the active ingredient is a neurotoxin of some
sort, causes their death. I've been using Frontline religiously for 5
years, and still find attached ticks on the dogs.

2. Can/should we apply another tube of FL?

No. Won't do you any good.

3. I check her every night. I flip through her hair with my fingers and
massage her entire body with my hands, concentrating on her upper body.
I have found attached ticks on the back of her neck, her shoulder
blades and between her front legs. Is there a secret to checking her?
Something I should look for?

I tend to find them where the shorter hair of the body is - face, ears,
legs. Also in the armpit (can't think of the right term now) and in the
crotch.

4. I check the pom and the cats as well, but not as thoroughly as the
Aussie. Should I? They all have FL.

Might as well. They don't have the same exposure level, but ticks can crawl
from one animal to another, including on to the humans.

5. Is there anything the gorrmer can do?
Any treatment?

Not that I know of.

6. Is Lyme disease the worst case scenario? How long does a tick need
to be attached before syptoms occur? Anything else tics can cause?
Symptoms of Lyme in dogs: Loss of appetite, lack of energy, moodiness,
lethargy. Anything else? So far, her appetite, energy level and
personality are unchanged.

There are a whole host of tick borne illnesses. They can manifest at a much
later point in time. Just keep an eye out for anything out of the ordinary.
When Khan, who is normally very stoic, started whining just slightly when he
had to down, I knew something was off - he came up Lyme positive. Around
the Mid-Atlantic, which is tick central, we run a tick panel on the dogs
yearly anyway.

7. Are ticks present on all vegatation?

Pretty much. There really isn't a way to avoid them, unless you're planning
on existing in a bubble. Be diligent with the topical, check her out
immediately after coming in, and look into applying a bug repellent on her.
Keep in mind that things like 'OFF' are not to be used on animals; I've had
good luck with Avon's Skin So Soft and a home made concoction (IIRC, boiled
water, lots of lemons, sliced thinly, tons of Rosemary, steeped overnight).

Suja

I've had
good luck with Avon's Skin So Soft and a home made concoction (IIRC,
boiled
water, lots of lemons, sliced thinly, tons of Rosemary, steeped
overnight).


I think I will try this too, did you just spray this stuff on them everytime
they went out or more like a once a day thing?

"MauiJNP" wrote in message:

I think I will try this too, did you just spray this stuff on them
everytime
they went out or more like a once a day thing?

Not every time they had to go out in the yard (where we have some deer and
deer ticks), but every time we went for our long walks where they'd have
high tick exposure. The Rosemary mixture I especially liked, 'cause
whether it worked or not, it made the dogs smell wonderful.

Suja

wrote:
I've been googliong this group, but am hoping some of you can answer
several questions in one post.

We live in Wolcott CT have beautiful 2 year old Aussie who I power walk
extensively (an hour or two each night). We also have an 8 YO Pom who
doesn't spends time in the back yard and walks around the block. We
also have three indoor cats.

Before last week, I've never seen a Tick on the Aussie. All of our pets
were on Frontline all last year and it seemingly worked fine. In
October we discontinued it until spring. About ten days ago, I found
two ticks on the Aussie's fur, not attached. Thankfully, she is a
Unique Aussie in that she is almost all white and very light tan, so
the local black ticks are quite visible. OTOH, she's between trimmings
and hasn't started to shed and is quite bushy. I found two more over
the next two days, one attached and one not. I removed them both. We
were still waiting for the Frontline we ordered over the internet to
arrive, but in a panic, we went out and bought more and applied it to
all the pets. That was a Wednesday. On Saturday morning, I found two
more attached, and not far from where we applied the FL. I assumed they
were dead because their sacs were seemingly empty. Then last night
before our walk, five days after the FL application, I found another
attached in the spot where wee applied the FL, alive when I pulled it
off. I also pulled off two more unattached after our walk.

My questions:

1. Is the Frontline not working? We were under the impression that any
tics, attached or unattached, should begin to fall off as soon as we
applied the FL. Five days later, there was at least one more, still
alive, and judging by it's size, it attached after the appication.

2. Can/should we apply another tube of FL?

3. I check her every night. I flip through her hair with my fingers and
massage her entire body with my hands, concentrating on her upper body.
I have found attached ticks on the back of her neck, her shoulder
blades and between her front legs. Is there a secret to checking her?
Something I should look for?

4. I check the pom and the cats as well, but not as thoroughly as the
Aussie. Should I? They all have FL.

5. She's scheduled for a bath and a trim Thursday. We will of course
tell the groomer about the tics. Is there anything the gorrmer can do?
Any treatment? I will also tell the groomer to trim both dogs very
tight for their own comfort and my ease of checking them.

6. Is Lyme disease the worst case scenario? How long does a tick need
to be attached before syptoms occur? Anything else tics can cause?
Symptoms of Lyme in dogs: Loss of appetite, lack of energy, moodiness,
lethargy. Anything else? So far, her appetite, energy level and
personality are unchanged. She's a little tired at night, but so am I,
as we've recently increased the length of our walks dramatically. Her
reflexes, alertness and effciency are unchanged.

7. Are ticks present on all vegatation? Since these problems, I've
tried to keep her on the road, but where I live, there's too much
vegetation to avoid it totally. I've gotten ticks on my person in my
own back yard, and I suspect she has too. Also, she loves the trails in
the woods, and the parks as she doesn't need to be held so close on her
leash. Should I completely avoid these areas? That would suck for her.

I will call the vet later, and not rely on information I receive here
as gospel, but it can't hurt me to get other perspectives. Any help is
appreciated. Thanks


Carl in CT

Dont forget to check between the pads on the feet and in the ears.

"Suja" wrote in message
news:cCO_f.18614$gE.11638@dukeread06...
2. Can/should we apply another tube of FL?

No. Won't do you any good.

............and what's more, it's dangerous. Frontline cannot be applied
more than once a month.

buglady
take out the dog before replying

On Wed, 12 Apr 2006 12:43:40 GMT, "buglady"
wrote:


"Suja" wrote in message
news:cCO_f.18614$gE.11638@dukeread06...
2. Can/should we apply another tube of FL?

No. Won't do you any good.

...........and what's more, it's dangerous. Frontline cannot be applied
more than once a month.

Technically, it shouldn't be, although all the literature I've seen
says that no adverse effects have been observed at up to 5 times the
normal dose. I've heard of vets suggesting that it can be used more
than once a month in severe infestations, and I used it more than once
a month on a couple of my dogs two years ago when I was nearly eaten
by fleas myself. But that was for fleas, not ticks. And I'm not
advocating using the stuff more often than directed - - just saying
that everything I've looked at says it isn't dangerous.

Mustang Sally

take out the dog before replying

My questions:

1. Is the Frontline not working? We were under the impression that any
tics, attached or unattached, should begin to fall off as soon as we
applied the FL.

No. With Frontline the critter must bite the dog first to be affected.

Five days later, there was at least one more, still
alive, and judging by it's size, it attached after the appication.

Hmm. Well, the EPA has issued alerts of counterfeit flea/tick products sold
over the internet. But there seems to also be a contingent of vet med folks
who feel that there may be a population of ticks that are no longer
responding well to Frontline Plus.

2. Can/should we apply another tube of FL?

NO. Frontline cannot be dosed more than once monthly. Advantix *can* be
dosed weekly if needed.

At the time of next doseage I would switch to Advantix. It's water repellant
and with the state you live in and high population of ticks, it's worth a
try. Advantix is also labeled to repel mosquitos and ticks (not labeled to
repel black flies, but we've had success there too). With Frontline, the
critter has to bite the dog for it to die. On Advantix, the
flea/mosquito/tick just has to land on it. Pay attention to application
directions - 4 spots for application. Since Advantix has a "flushing"
affect, the fleas/ticks flush up to the hairs when they die whereas with
Advantage they die at the skin level so don't think it's not working. The
point is that if you see them they will be dead or close to it!

This is from Bayer's site (maker of Advantix):

http://www.k9advantix.com/About-K9-A...1TMFONTSUP.asp

K9 AdvantixTM is a once-a-month topical flea, tick, and mosquito treatment
for dogs and puppies 7 weeks of age and older. It contains imidacloprid and
permethrin. It is available in 4 dosage sizes: 10 lbs. and under, 11-20
lbs., 21-55 lbs., and dogs weighing over 55 pounds. It is available in both
4 packs and 6 packs.

Nothing else offers this kind of triple protection against biting.

A synergistic effect that enhances efficacy.
K9 AdvantixTM is a unique combination of two proven ingredients that work
synergistically against ectoparasites. The mode of action of imidacloprid
complements the activity of permethrin. Each affects parasite nerve cells at
different sites. When combined, the neurotoxic effect against parasites is
enhanced. This leads to rapid paralysis and death of the parasites.

Prevents mosquitoes from biting.
K9 AdvantixTM repels and kills mosquitoes before they can bite - protection
Frontline® Plus can't offer. As the vector of West Nile Virus, mosquitoes
are a growing concern. Research demonstrates K9 AdvantixTM kills up to 98.3%
of mosquitoes and reduces their feeding up to 95.2%.1 Mosquitoes that do not
bite cannot annoy dogs or transmit disease.

Keeps ticks from biting.
K9 AdvantixTM offers proven protection against ticks because it repels and
kills Deer ticks, American dog ticks, Lone Star ticks and Brown dog ticks
before they can attach. K9 AdvantixTM repels up to 98.5% of ticks-repellency
Frontline® Plus can't offer.2 Ticks that are repelled and die without biting
cannot spread disease.

Stops fleas from biting.
K9 AdvantixTM offers the superior protection against fleas you can only get
from imidacloprid. It stops fleas from biting in less than 5 minutes and
kills them before they lay eggs.3 K9 AdvantixTM also kills flea larvae
before they develop into adult fleas, so there's no need to kill the flea
eggs.

Protects dogs young, old, small and tall.
K9 AdvantixTM is gentle enough for puppies 7 weeks of age or older and dogs
of any size. Just apply topically once a month to protect dogs from the
problems of biting fleas, ticks, and mosquitoes.

Keeps working after swimming or bathing.
K9 AdvantixTM remains effective after swimming or bathing. After repeated
swims,
it kills 97.9-100% of ticks and 92.5-100% of fleas. After bathing, it kills
97.4-100% of ticks and fleas.4 You can use it with confidence for dogs who
like water.


-Sharon

Sharon wrote:
My questions:

1. Is the Frontline not working? We were under the impression that any
tics, attached or unattached, should begin to fall off as soon as we
applied the FL.

No. With Frontline the critter must bite the dog first to be affected.

Five days later, there was at least one more, still
alive, and judging by it's size, it attached after the appication.

Hmm. Well, the EPA has issued alerts of counterfeit flea/tick products sold
over the internet. But there seems to also be a contingent of vet med folks
who feel that there may be a population of ticks that are no longer
responding well to Frontline Plus.

2. Can/should we apply another tube of FL?

NO. Frontline cannot be dosed more than once monthly. Advantix *can* be
dosed weekly if needed.

At the time of next doseage I would switch to Advantix. It's water repellant
and with the state you live in and high population of ticks, it's worth a
try. Advantix is also labeled to repel mosquitos and ticks (not labeled to
repel black flies, but we've had success there too). With Frontline, the
critter has to bite the dog for it to die. On Advantix, the
flea/mosquito/tick just has to land on it. Pay attention to application
directions - 4 spots for application. Since Advantix has a "flushing"
affect, the fleas/ticks flush up to the hairs when they die whereas with
Advantage they die at the skin level so don't think it's not working. The
point is that if you see them they will be dead or close to it!

This is from Bayer's site (maker of Advantix):

http://www.k9advantix.com/About-K9-A...1TMFONTSUP.asp

K9 AdvantixTM is a once-a-month topical flea, tick, and mosquito treatment
for dogs and puppies 7 weeks of age and older. It contains imidacloprid and
permethrin. It is available in 4 dosage sizes: 10 lbs. and under, 11-20
lbs., 21-55 lbs., and dogs weighing over 55 pounds. It is available in both
4 packs and 6 packs.

Nothing else offers this kind of triple protection against biting.

A synergistic effect that enhances efficacy.
K9 AdvantixTM is a unique combination of two proven ingredients that work
synergistically against ectoparasites. The mode of action of imidacloprid
complements the activity of permethrin. Each affects parasite nerve cellsat
different sites. When combined, the neurotoxic effect against parasites is
enhanced. This leads to rapid paralysis and death of the parasites.

Prevents mosquitoes from biting.
K9 AdvantixTM repels and kills mosquitoes before they can bite - protection
Frontline® Plus can't offer. As the vector of West Nile Virus, mosquitoes
are a growing concern. Research demonstrates K9 AdvantixTM kills up to 98..3%
of mosquitoes and reduces their feeding up to 95.2%.1 Mosquitoes that do not
bite cannot annoy dogs or transmit disease.

Keeps ticks from biting.
K9 AdvantixTM offers proven protection against ticks because it repels and
kills Deer ticks, American dog ticks, Lone Star ticks and Brown dog ticks
before they can attach. K9 AdvantixTM repels up to 98.5% of ticks-repellency
Frontline® Plus can't offer.2 Ticks that are repelled and die without biting
cannot spread disease.

Stops fleas from biting.
K9 AdvantixTM offers the superior protection against fleas you can only get
from imidacloprid. It stops fleas from biting in less than 5 minutes and
kills them before they lay eggs.3 K9 AdvantixTM also kills flea larvae
before they develop into adult fleas, so there's no need to kill the flea
eggs.

Protects dogs young, old, small and tall.
K9 AdvantixTM is gentle enough for puppies 7 weeks of age or older and dogs
of any size. Just apply topically once a month to protect dogs from the
problems of biting fleas, ticks, and mosquitoes.

Keeps working after swimming or bathing.
K9 AdvantixTM remains effective after swimming or bathing. After repeated
swims,
it kills 97.9-100% of ticks and 92.5-100% of fleas. After bathing, it kills
97.4-100% of ticks and fleas.4 You can use it with confidence for dogs who
like water.


-Sharon


Advantix is good, but it is HIGHLY toxic to cats! Even if you dog lays
down and leaves a small amount (if its still wet) and the cat licks
it,it can kill the cat.If the cat grooms the dog even after if dry it
will kill the cat.

Advantix is good, but it is HIGHLY toxic to cats! Even if you dog lays
down and leaves a small amount (if its still wet) and the cat licks
it,it can kill the cat.If the cat grooms the dog even after if dry it
will kill the cat.

That's not completely true. Should it be applied to the cat? No. It takes no
more than 12 hours to absorb into the skin. Separate the pets if it concerns
you. But I can tell you that we've had no issues at our practice and the
folks at both Merial (Frontline) and Bayer (Advantix) repeatedly mention
that if it were the case, these preventives would never be on the market. As
with any product or medication, directions must be followed and application
to 4 spots is a must. It absorbs quickly this way.