Hopefully this is not too much off-topic for "breeds", but some of you
already have helped me and know my situation with Muttley. I hope to
train him (and me), but I have some other concerns that may affect
whether or not I keep him or search more diligently for another home.

He is a large, young, energetic dog, and he would be most happy if he
could run loose (as he enjoyed prior to being rescued), but that would
be very risky because he could run into the busy street in front of the
house or cause injury to my neighbors' pets or children. I have 2.5
acres of land, mostly wooded, with a good-sized meadow atop a hill
behind the house. The house is situated very close to the road, with
only a partial hedge and low stone wall. I am currently doing major
renovations to the house, which sometimes creates possibly dangerous
conditions for the dog, especially if left alone indoors. I built what
is essentially an enclosed porch on the back of the house, 8' x 10',
which still has open framing for a door and a window.

When I am home, usually I close the doors, and allow Muttley the run of
the house. He is fairly good, with some bad habits like pulling garbage
like cans and plastic bags from the trash and chewing on it. He used to
have frequent "accidents" of urinating in various places, which I think
was his messages to the cat, who hides under the floor when he is
around. Now, he seems less excited about her presence, and he usually
lets me know when he needs to go out by offering his paw (or both of
them). I have a tie-out cable which is secured outside, and long enough
for him to leave the porch to do his business, or come in the door to
the house (if I leave the door open), but this also lets in bugs, and
won't work when the weather gets cold. He seems generally OK with being
outside like that, and when I go to work, I leave him tied outside,
with food and water.

I realize this is not the best arrangement, but I only intended to
adopt this dog on a temporary basis while finding a better home. After
more than four months now, I have grown attached to him and would not
want to surrender him to a shelter where he would be adopted
anonymously and I would never see him again. Possibly after training,
and when I finish more of my house, I might decide to keep him
permanently, although I'm not sure I want to make those lifestyle
changes.

I have considered putting up a fence so I can let him run free, but the
only places that make sense for that are located several hundred feet
from the house, and separated by hilly terrain. He would require at
least a six foot fence, because he escaped from an area with a four
foot fence, and he also escaped from a 6' x 6' x 4' high kennel I kept
him in when I first got him. I had enclosed the top with wire fencing,
but he managed to work his way under the chain link on one side.
Fortunately he was still tethered by his chain and choker collar. I
would like to find an alternative to that, but I am afraid he would
escape from his regular collar.

Eventually, I might build a house on top of the hill, and then an
adjacent fence would be a practical solution. However, this is
presently only a long term dream project for which I may never find the
time, energy, and money. I need some practical advice I can implement
in the near term. If this indicates that I should resolve to finding
him a better home, I will search more diligently. He certainly has a
better life now than he had living on the streets, except for his lack
of freedom. I have been criticized for allowing my cat to roam free
outdoors, but I think she is happier to have that freedom, and I accept
the risks that go along with that. However, it would be irresponsible
to allow my dog the same privilege because of the dangerous
consequences. If I had a remote farm it would be different.

Well, at the risk of being criticized, I present my situation to you
all. I will read any and all suggestions, even from Jerry Howe (if he
can manage to keep his post civil and brief), and I will try to make
the best decision for Muttley's best interests. I have made some
sacrifices and expenditures to save his life, and he seems fairly
happy, but there will need to be some changes in the situation for our
continued well being.

Thanks,

Paul

(Sorry if this is duplicated. It did not seem to get posted through my
coretel.net account)

On 1 Jul 2006 15:11:21 -0700, "Paul" , clicked their
heels and said:

I am currently doing major
renovations to the house, which sometimes creates possibly dangerous
conditions for the dog, especially if left alone indoors. I built what
is essentially an enclosed porch on the back of the house, 8' x 10',
which still has open framing for a door and a window.

Maybe I'm not following completely, but does that mean an area you can
use for him?

I have a tie-out cable which is secured outside, and long enough
for him to leave the porch to do his business, or come in the door to
the house (if I leave the door open), but this also lets in bugs, and
won't work when the weather gets cold. He seems generally OK with being
outside like that, and when I go to work, I leave him tied outside,
with food and water.

A tie out cable isn't awful, but I don't believe in leavng dogs
outside when nobody's home, particularly not tied.

I have considered putting up a fence so I can let him run free, but the
only places that make sense for that are located several hundred feet
from the house, and separated by hilly terrain. He would require at
least a six foot fence, because he escaped from an area with a four
foot fence, and he also escaped from a 6' x 6' x 4' high kennel I kept
him in when I first got him. I had enclosed the top with wire fencing,
but he managed to work his way under the chain link on one side.
Fortunately he was still tethered by his chain and choker collar. I
would like to find an alternative to that, but I am afraid he would
escape from his regular collar.

While I'm not always fond of them and wouldn't leave a dog home alone
with one, Invisible Fence systems are very practical for the land you
describe.

Ideally , a safe indoor place when you're not home, with an IF system
outdoors to allow you to hang out with him, play with him, etc, would
be the solution.


--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

In article .com,
Paul wrote:
He seems generally OK with being
outside like that, and when I go to work, I leave him tied outside,
with food and water.

I'd keep him inside for his own safety, and crated if he
tends to get into stuff.

Fortunately he was still tethered by his chain and choker collar. I
would like to find an alternative to that, but I am afraid he would
escape from his regular collar.

I'm not crazy about tethers but under the circumstances I
think one makes sense. I'd get rid of the choke collar
*immediately*, however. If you're concerned about him
slipping his collar you could try a semi-choke, which is
commonly used with sleddogs that are staked out when not
working. They tighten but only so far, vastly reducing the
risk to the dog. See, for example,
http://www.coldspotfeeds.com/product.asp?idProduct=419

However, it would be irresponsible
to allow my dog the same privilege because of the dangerous
consequences. If I had a remote farm it would be different.

Not much different. You can't believe the stuff dogs get
into.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community

"Janet B" wrote in message
...
On 1 Jul 2006 15:11:21 -0700, "Paul" , clicked their
heels and said:

I am currently doing major
renovations to the house, which sometimes creates possibly dangerous
conditions for the dog, especially if left alone indoors. I built what
is essentially an enclosed porch on the back of the house, 8' x 10',
which still has open framing for a door and a window.

Maybe I'm not following completely, but does that mean an area you can
use for him?

It could be used for him, but I will need to do more work on it to make it
weatherproof and escape-proof. It started out as a temporary patio with
interlocking vinyl floor and then I added a roof (with skylight) and walls.
It would make a nice sunporch, but would also be suitable as an enclosure
where he could be contained fairly comfortably, without dire consequences
if he had to poop or pee. I would rather add a pet door so he could go
outside. I might be able to add a small attached fenced area for that.

I have a tie-out cable which is secured outside, and long enough
for him to leave the porch to do his business, or come in the door to
the house (if I leave the door open), but this also lets in bugs, and
won't work when the weather gets cold. He seems generally OK with being
outside like that, and when I go to work, I leave him tied outside,
with food and water.

A tie out cable isn't awful, but I don't believe in leavng dogs
outside when nobody's home, particularly not tied.

The main problem I've had with the tie out cable is that sometimes he
manages to get it caught on something that limits his freedom. The porch
with attached yard (kennel) may solve the problem for now.

I have considered putting up a fence so I can let him run free, but the
only places that make sense for that are located several hundred feet
from the house, and separated by hilly terrain. He would require at
least a six foot fence, because he escaped from an area with a four
foot fence, and he also escaped from a 6' x 6' x 4' high kennel I kept
him in when I first got him. I had enclosed the top with wire fencing,
but he managed to work his way under the chain link on one side.
Fortunately he was still tethered by his chain and choker collar. I
would like to find an alternative to that, but I am afraid he would
escape from his regular collar.

While I'm not always fond of them and wouldn't leave a dog home alone
with one, Invisible Fence systems are very practical for the land you
describe.

Ideally , a safe indoor place when you're not home, with an IF system
outdoors to allow you to hang out with him, play with him, etc, would
be the solution.

My neighbors had an IF for their dog. However, I think it was quite
expensive. I will look into a safer semi-choke collar. Meanwhile, I have
made his metal chain collar limited-choke by adding a metal ring so it
stops at a reasonable amount of constriction. Is that a good idea?

Paul

"Paul" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hopefully this is not too much off-topic for "breeds", but some of you
already have helped me and know my situation with Muttley. I hope to
train him (and me), but I have some other concerns that may affect
whether or not I keep him or search more diligently for another home.

There are three things that I would think are preferable to a cable run -
1) Inside, crated. .
2) Inside, ex-penned, with a lid.
3) Outside, in an enclosed run. Not ideal, but vastly better than a cable
run for the short term.

Christy

Christy wrote:
"Paul" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hopefully this is not too much off-topic for "breeds", but some of
you already have helped me and know my situation with Muttley. I
hope to train him (and me), but I have some other concerns that may
affect whether or not I keep him or search more diligently for
another home.

There are three things that I would think are preferable to a cable
run - 1) Inside, crated. .
2) Inside, ex-penned, with a lid.
3) Outside, in an enclosed run. Not ideal, but vastly better than a
cable run for the short term.

Christy

I agree with Christy, except that for me inside and gated or otherwise
confined in a dog-safe room is another option after housebreaking has been
pretty much achieved, but before the dog is trustworthy enough to allow him
the run of the house. By dog-safe, I mean a floor that can be easily cleaned
if there is an accident, nothing on shelves, etc, that he can reach and chew
that he isn't allowed to chew, and having no electrical cords that he can
chomp on and kill himself, and no screens that he can jump through and
escape. (You can leave screened windows open enough to admit air but not
enough to admit HIM.) Typically, this is the kitchen.

My dogs aren't crated after they have achieved the necessary level of
trustworthiness. I know that that there are good reasons to keep up crating,
though, for some people. (Vet stays, travel, shows and competitions, etc)

I have in the past used the outside run option, but I've found that it has
several potential problems. Firstly, it needs to be out of sight of the
street and abutting neighbors, so that a) the dog doesn't make a nuisance of
himself barking at passers-by and people in their yards, and b) he is safe
from people who might steal or torment him. Secondly, if he is a really
determined digger (or climber), he might escape. Thirdly, there are some
dogs who will bark ceaselessly because they are lonely or bored, and those
dogs tend to drive the neighbors insane, with good reason.

Generally speaking, the tie-out option seems like a poor one to me for
several reasons: people observe that some dogs who are tied out a lot
develop aggression (this may be a breed-related issue), dogs who are tied
out are vulnerable to other animals and people who may wish to harm them,
dogs who are tied out have the potential to become entangled and hurt
themselves, and dogs who are tied out can become nuisance barkers, as above.
The kind of tie out that seems to work the best to me if you must use one is
the overhead cable thing. It at least avoids the
wrapping-the-line-around-a-tree kind of event.

All in all, I think most people would agree that inside the house is best.

"Janet Puistonen" said in
rec.pets.dogs.breeds:

All in all, I think most people would agree that inside the
house is best.

Yes, but you may no longer have access to the beginning of the
thread. The OP is going though major house renovations and the
dog (a foster) isn't yet getting along with an indoor cat.

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

"Rocky" wrote in message
...
"Janet Puistonen" said in
rec.pets.dogs.breeds:

All in all, I think most people would agree that inside the
house is best.

Yes, but you may no longer have access to the beginning of the
thread. The OP is going though major house renovations and the
dog (a foster) isn't yet getting along with an indoor cat.

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

Thanks for the reminder of the full situation. Considering all the mischief
he could get into, he has been doing very well. When I first got him, he
chewed on a couple of phone lines and power plugs, but there are still many
such hazards around and he has left them alone. The only thing he chews on
that is of any consequence is a tread on the stairs. He does (carefully)
remove items from the trash or recycling and shreds them, and sometimes he
chews on his bedding or blankets on my bed (but only a bit). He loves
rawhide chews, and usually devours them in 5 or 10 minutes. Yet I have the
bag of chews easily accessible, but he waits for me to give him one.

When he is tied outside, he is usually fairly quiet. He is out back, out of
sight from road and neighbors, and I think he only barks when there is a
good reason to (in dog terms), such as wild animals coming near, or other
dogs barking. Once he "insisted" on coming inside, by loudly scratching on
the door, but once inside he settled down quickly. It was during stormy
weather, and he was wet, so he was being quite reasonable. Sometimes he has
resisted being tied up, but lately he will come and sit and allow me to
clip on the tether, and he will then willingly go out and do his business
and sometimes calmly lie on his blanket. I have modified his choker collar
so that it has limited constriction, and he seems to avoid getting tangled
in the cable. He's a good, smart dog.

I think I will keep things as they are for now, but I will try to make the
porch more weatherproof and dog-safe. I think I can fairly easily add a
small fenced area with a dog door so he can go out to do his business and
not need to be tied up. I think a 6 foot fence may be sufficient. Hopefully
he will not feel too confined and cause him to try to jump over or dig
under, as he did in his kennel.

In many ways, I think he is a fantastic dog, especially when I have heard
about problems other people have had. I certainly do not regret having
rescued him from certain death, but I'm not sure I want the responsibility
of keeping him on a permanent basis. Hopefully training will make it easier
to do that, or at least more readily find a better home.

Thanks for all your help.

Paul

I don't think your dog is miserable in your house right now, though i
strongly believe that he should get some freedom. You should take him
outside to parks once in a while so that he can run around for a little
while. Make sure your cat doesn't come along. You must get a new house
soon.

Paul wrote:

Hopefully this is not too much off-topic for "breeds", but some of you
already have helped me and know my situation with Muttley. I hope to
train him (and me), but I have some other concerns that may affect
whether or not I keep him or search more diligently for another home.

He is a large, young, energetic dog, and he would be most happy if he
could run loose (as he enjoyed prior to being rescued), but that would
be very risky because he could run into the busy street in front of the
house or cause injury to my neighbors' pets or children. I have 2.5
acres of land, mostly wooded, with a good-sized meadow atop a hill
behind the house. The house is situated very close to the road, with
only a partial hedge and low stone wall. I am currently doing major
renovations to the house, which sometimes creates possibly dangerous
conditions for the dog, especially if left alone indoors. I built what
is essentially an enclosed porch on the back of the house, 8' x 10',
which still has open framing for a door and a window.

When I am home, usually I close the doors, and allow Muttley the run of
the house. He is fairly good, with some bad habits like pulling garbage
like cans and plastic bags from the trash and chewing on it. He used to
have frequent "accidents" of urinating in various places, which I think
was his messages to the cat, who hides under the floor when he is
around. Now, he seems less excited about her presence, and he usually
lets me know when he needs to go out by offering his paw (or both of
them). I have a tie-out cable which is secured outside, and long enough
for him to leave the porch to do his business, or come in the door to
the house (if I leave the door open), but this also lets in bugs, and
won't work when the weather gets cold. He seems generally OK with being
outside like that, and when I go to work, I leave him tied outside,
with food and water.

I realize this is not the best arrangement, but I only intended to
adopt this dog on a temporary basis while finding a better home. After
more than four months now, I have grown attached to him and would not
want to surrender him to a shelter where he would be adopted
anonymously and I would never see him again. Possibly after training,
and when I finish more of my house, I might decide to keep him
permanently, although I'm not sure I want to make those lifestyle
changes.

I have considered putting up a fence so I can let him run free, but the
only places that make sense for that are located several hundred feet
from the house, and separated by hilly terrain. He would require at
least a six foot fence, because he escaped from an area with a four
foot fence, and he also escaped from a 6' x 6' x 4' high kennel I kept
him in when I first got him. I had enclosed the top with wire fencing,
but he managed to work his way under the chain link on one side.
Fortunately he was still tethered by his chain and choker collar. I
would like to find an alternative to that, but I am afraid he would
escape from his regular collar.

Eventually, I might build a house on top of the hill, and then an
adjacent fence would be a practical solution. However, this is
presently only a long term dream project for which I may never find the
time, energy, and money. I need some practical advice I can implement
in the near term. If this indicates that I should resolve to finding
him a better home, I will search more diligently. He certainly has a
better life now than he had living on the streets, except for his lack
of freedom. I have been criticized for allowing my cat to roam free
outdoors, but I think she is happier to have that freedom, and I accept
the risks that go along with that. However, it would be irresponsible
to allow my dog the same privilege because of the dangerous
consequences. If I had a remote farm it would be different.

Well, at the risk of being criticized, I present my situation to you
all. I will read any and all suggestions, even from Jerry Howe (if he
can manage to keep his post civil and brief), and I will try to make
the best decision for Muttley's best interests. I have made some
sacrifices and expenditures to save his life, and he seems fairly
happy, but there will need to be some changes in the situation for our
continued well being.

Thanks,

Paul

(Sorry if this is duplicated. It did not seem to get posted through my
coretel.net account)