hi people,

The post below brings up in interesting thought..........
When does a behavoir become a behavioral problem?
When it is annoying to the owner or disrupts the human family life?

If it is something people decide they can deal with without changing is
the behavior then viewed as normal or acceptable?

Like compulsive licking might be ignored by some and not a big deal,
but compulsive barking is usually hard to ignore.

I 'd like to hear everyone's thoughts on this.

Crystal

wrote:
On Sun, 2 Jul 2006 18:45:18 -0400 MauiJNP whittled these words:
Any unexpected change in behavior suggests a physical problem. Lip
licking is often a sign that the lip are "tingling" have a funny feel.
That can be due to a variety of health issues, some of them are life
threatening health issues. I'd get her to the vet.

Maui has done this "air licking" since I had him. He is extremely
affectionate and does it when he wants to kiss us (or so we assumed). I
never mentioned this at the vets and his doesn't appear unhealthy. Now you
are starting to worry me! Should I be calling the vet also?

I don't know. I respond to someone who is concerned enough about the
behavior to mention it, who notes that it "started", and who doesn't
indicate that there is any context for the behavior. If you aren't
concerned, and if you think you know the cause, and if it isn't so often
that it is bothering you (as it was the OP) then it would appear to be a
different issue. Does the behavior you see REALLY match the behavior the
OP reported?


--
Diane Blackman
There is no moral victory in proclaiming to abhor violence
while preaching with violent words.
http://dog-play.com/ http://dogplayshops.com/

On 3 Jul 2006 09:02:13 -0700, "
wrote:

hi people,

The post below brings up in interesting thought..........
When does a behavoir become a behavioral problem?
When it is annoying to the owner or disrupts the human family life?

If it is something people decide they can deal with without changing is
the behavior then viewed as normal or acceptable?

Like compulsive licking might be ignored by some and not a big deal,
but compulsive barking is usually hard to ignore.

I 'd like to hear everyone's thoughts on this.

I think you also have to take into account when it is a potential
problem for the dog. For example, if the compulsive licking could be
a sign of a physical problem, I'd take my dog to the vet before saying
it was okay just because it didn't bother me. If there were no
physical signs but the licking was causing sores, I'd not find that
acceptable even if the licking in and of itself didn't bother me.
Sometimes it is also a sign of anxiety when a dog has compulsive
behaviors, though not always, so I would be looking for that and
working on relieving anxiety even if the compulsive behavior was not
one that bothered me overly.

--
Paula
"Anyway, other people are weird, but sometimes they have candy,
so it's best to try to get along with them." Joe Bay

wrote:
hi people,

The post below brings up in interesting thought..........
When does a behavoir become a behavioral problem?
When it is annoying to the owner or disrupts the human family life?

If it is something people decide they can deal with without changing is
the behavior then viewed as normal or acceptable?

Like compulsive licking might be ignored by some and not a big deal,
but compulsive barking is usually hard to ignore.

I 'd like to hear everyone's thoughts on this.

Crystal

wrote:
On Sun, 2 Jul 2006 18:45:18 -0400 MauiJNP whittled these words:
Any unexpected change in behavior suggests a physical problem. Lip
licking is often a sign that the lip are "tingling" have a funny feel.
That can be due to a variety of health issues, some of them are life
threatening health issues. I'd get her to the vet.

Maui has done this "air licking" since I had him. He is extremely
affectionate and does it when he wants to kiss us (or so we assumed). I
never mentioned this at the vets and his doesn't appear unhealthy. Now you
are starting to worry me! Should I be calling the vet also?

I don't know. I respond to someone who is concerned enough about the
behavior to mention it, who notes that it "started", and who doesn't
indicate that there is any context for the behavior. If you aren't
concerned, and if you think you know the cause, and if it isn't so often
that it is bothering you (as it was the OP) then it would appear to be a
different issue. Does the behavior you see REALLY match the behavior the
OP reported?


--
Diane Blackman
There is no moral victory in proclaiming to abhor violence
while preaching with violent words.
http://dog-play.com/ http://dogplayshops.com/


Hi Star,
I looked up all your posts. I read all of them. In one of the posts you
say your name is Star Arcidy. In the post you say to google your name.
So I did. Wow are there ever many posts by and about you.
For an 18 year old girl you sure do have complex linguistic skills and
styles. Very sophisticated to the point of non believability. To go
from one linguistic style of writing and be fluent in it then a
completely different writing style with an extraordinary knowledge of
dogs and people takes a much older person usually.
And a genius at that.
Now you are either a genius or you are an impostor. Sorry to say this
but if you want evidence I will go into the archives of your google
posts and the other world wide dog forums you are on or talked about on
and give you evidence.
You say that your age is 18 and that your dog Star is 7. if I remember
correctly. Well she was trained by Jerry Howe when you were 16 and that
would have made Star 5. So you had gone to 5 other trainers before him
and they failed. How old were you when you began going to other
trainers? Did your parents come along with you. I know they did not
come with you to see Jerry. How is it they would be in the land of
Disneyland and they would leave you alone with a stranger and your dog
while they toured around. Not common behavior in parents. Especially
with her frightening behavior, you say she was a terrified dog. Did you
take a cab over?
He worked with you for several days, did your parents not wonder where
you were at 16 with your dog to boot? How about going back to the
hotel, did you take a cab. The math does not add up.
You also say you have read tons of books on dog training, at your age
to have such recall of the methods and be as familiar as you are with
them is hard to believe unless you are a genius.
The way that you comprehend Jerry's methods in great detail and the
understanding of small corrections shows the mind of a person well
versed in dog behavior and training. Unless you have spent your life
out of school and only training dogs there is no way you would know as
much about some of the issues you at times show great proficiency in.
At other times you speak like a little girl and say Doggy. It does not
add up. I have given you my phone number please call me so we can
discuss this as I do not want someone here who is an impostor.
Your main objective when the name Crystal Arcidy ( the name ARCidy is
also hard to believe) is googled is to promote Jerry. Now I know you
like the man however I did not realize to the extent you have gone to
promote him on the web.
For a young woman just graduating I assume, this has taken years of
effort and the dog training at the shelter along with the knowledge of
people and dogs does not add up in the math.
You are too young to be posting in such varied styles and posting in so
many places that are off the beaten track when it comes to dogs.
Please call me soon, or else I will assume that this is a fictitious
character.
Show Dog Bark

wrote:
When does a behavoir become a behavioral problem?

When it interferes in the relationship between dog and human.

It isn't limited to "bad" behaviors, like a dog that can't be called
off chasing squirrels. It's also a problem when anything distract the
dog's attention from the handler. Like the dog who is ball obsessed
and looks to the toy instead of making eye contact with the handler or
even when the expectation of click/treat distracts from handler praise.

Lynn K.

wrote:
wrote:
When does a behavoir become a behavioral problem?

When it interferes in the relationship between dog and human.

It isn't limited to "bad" behaviors, like a dog that can't be called
off chasing squirrels. It's also a problem when anything distract the
dog's attention from the handler. Like the dog who is ball obsessed
and looks to the toy instead of making eye contact with the handler or
even when the expectation of click/treat distracts from handler praise.

Lynn K.

Hi Lynn,
I know you said you use clicker training with your GSD , how do you
switch over to praise and how do you know when to start doing this.
Also, did you have any setbacks with her since she was nervous?
Crystal

wrote:

I know you said you use clicker training with your GSD , how do you
switch over to praise and how do you know when to start doing this.

It isn't a matter of switching to praise. Praise is always the primary
reinforcer.
And the only reinforcer when I want her to continue a behavior rather
than terminate it with a c/t. I do fade the c/t after the behavior is
learned, just as you would with any intermittant reward schedule.
Praise, of course, is forever.

Also, did you have any setbacks with her since she was nervous?

Well, she's been glued to me for 2 hours, quivering and drooling.
Fireworks.
But, seriously, I do work her a little differently than other dogs
because her confidence is a trifle fragile. Slow and steady daily baby
steps, with great care in body language. That's particularly true when
she needs to work away from me. For example, when she's moving sheep
towards me if I were to step or lean towards her, she'd back off the
sheep and I'd have to then stop and reconfirm what I want her to do. A
dog like this really cleans up your handling skills because you have to
keep everything clean and clear and get rid of all extraneous signals.

Lynn K.

wrote:
wrote:

I know you said you use clicker training with your GSD , how do you
switch over to praise and how do you know when to start doing this.

It isn't a matter of switching to praise. Praise is always the primary
reinforcer.
And the only reinforcer when I want her to continue a behavior rather
than terminate it with a c/t. I do fade the c/t after the behavior is
learned, just as you would with any intermittant reward schedule.
Praise, of course, is forever.

Also, did you have any setbacks with her since she was nervous?

Well, she's been glued to me for 2 hours, quivering and drooling.
Fireworks.
But, seriously, I do work her a little differently than other dogs
because her confidence is a trifle fragile. Slow and steady daily baby
steps, with great care in body language. That's particularly true when
she needs to work away from me. For example, when she's moving sheep
towards me if I were to step or lean towards her, she'd back off the
sheep and I'd have to then stop and reconfirm what I want her to do. A
dog like this really cleans up your handling skills because you have to
keep everything clean and clear and get rid of all extraneous signals.

Lynn K.

Thanks for your answer, can you tell me how old she was when you got
her?
And do you think she will always be somewhat nervous?
Crystal

Good answer, I agree.
So often I think people get caught up in themselves and tend to ignore
behavior unless it is too extreme for them to ignore. We certainly see
parents do this with kids too.......
Crystal

Paula wrote:
On 3 Jul 2006 09:02:13 -0700, "
wrote:

hi people,

The post below brings up in interesting thought..........
When does a behavoir become a behavioral problem?
When it is annoying to the owner or disrupts the human family life?

If it is something people decide they can deal with without changing is
the behavior then viewed as normal or acceptable?

Like compulsive licking might be ignored by some and not a big deal,
but compulsive barking is usually hard to ignore.

I 'd like to hear everyone's thoughts on this.

I think you also have to take into account when it is a potential
problem for the dog. For example, if the compulsive licking could be
a sign of a physical problem, I'd take my dog to the vet before saying
it was okay just because it didn't bother me. If there were no
physical signs but the licking was causing sores, I'd not find that
acceptable even if the licking in and of itself didn't bother me.
Sometimes it is also a sign of anxiety when a dog has compulsive
behaviors, though not always, so I would be looking for that and
working on relieving anxiety even if the compulsive behavior was not
one that bothered me overly.

--
Paula
"Anyway, other people are weird, but sometimes they have candy,
so it's best to try to get along with them." Joe Bay

wrote:

Thanks for your answer, can you tell me how old she was when you got
her?
And do you think she will always be somewhat nervous?

9 weeks and yes. I knew both parents and her bloodlines, and knew they
were all nervebags. I saw the litter multiple times between 5 and 9
weeks and knew she was the most timid pup in the litter. In fact, I
saw her littermates last week. They have all been returned to the
breeder and none of them can be touched. I took her as an experiment
of nurture vs nature, with full knowledge of what I was facing. That's
not to say I'm not learning a lot from her. I am. Like today. She
had a hard time with the fireworks last night and was still in pretty
bad shape this morning when she woke. So I worked her 3 times today on
basics and attention, with a little agility fun thrown in, to break
her fear mode. I wouldn't have to even think about doing that kind of
thing with a dog with a more solid temperament.

Lynn K.