Our dog, Maggie, is a German Shepherd Dog

Maggie was born on October 6, 2004. The dam and sire are both of
European working dog descent.

We got Maggie on her eighth week birthday. She had the normal puppy
diarrhea that was attributable to her stressful separation from her
mother. She also ate her own feces. Both issues were explainable and
accepted as normal.

As a puppy we broke her quickly of the habit of eating her own feces.
Diarrhea persisted in a sporadic and seemingly random pattern. She had
explosive, smelly diarrhea in her kennel various times throughout her
puppy days. The diarrhea continued for 24 to 36 hours and was stopped
often times with metronidozol.

Maggie has always been on a strict dog good only diet with zero human
food. She received treats as rewards during obedience training.

Her eating habits and diarrhea seems to follow a cycle. She stops
eating, has diarrhea for 24 to 36 hours and loses weight. Diarrhea is
stabilized and the process of gaining weight starts again. About the
time that she gets to her optimal weight, another diarrhea episode
would start.

After a particularly persistent bought of diarrhea it was discovered
that she had intestinal worms. An injection of [drontal?] was
administered and very black diarrhea followed for 24 hours. This
cleared the worms up.

The evening of July 4, 2005 Maggie was left alone for a short period of
time while a large neighborhood fireworks display was going on. She had
diarrhea all over the house, which required a total replacement of
carpet. The diarrhea followed for 24 to 36 hours.

The neighborhood vet has treated her for inflamed/impacted anal glands.
A repeated emptying of the sacs and treatment with antibiotics and
anti-inflammatory drugs was administered. Again, diarrhea followed.

The emergency veterinary clinic tested a blood panel for any signs of
organ failure or apparent problems with no indications. They also drew
blood and sent it to a lab in Texas (I think Texas A&M) for testing of
pancreatic insufficiency. This test came back negative.

Removal of all food treats and a move to a low residue diet proved
unsuccessful. Later, a move to an allergen free diet (Science Diet ZD)
has also proved unsuccessful.

Food allergy blood tests were performed and returned results of an
allergy to rabbit, corn and other foods. We confirmed that these were
not ingredients in her foods.

She does have access to feral animal droppings on a daily basis and
horse and cow feces on a weekly basis (weekends). She has shown
interest in rabbit droppings and the horse and cow feces. She is
supervised 99% of the time and is restricted from eating foreign
objects.

Her method of defecating is unusual in the way that she walks as she
defecates. Upon completion she often times jerks back to clean lick
herself in a way that it appears that a sharp pain or sudden sting
occurs in her rear. She does not scoot on her rear.

She is intact based on our desire to breed her, assuming that her
problems will not be passed genetically. Her breeder maintains that her
parents and, to the best of her knowledge, none of their offspring
exhibit any of these symptoms.

Maggie weights approximately 65 pounds and appears healthy. When not
exhibiting symptoms, she is playful, attentive and intelligent. She
pants heavily and sits on her rear end when a bought begins to present.

In addition, she has random vomiting of yellow, foamy substance, which
I have read is bile. She eats grass from time to time. When she wants
the grass, this normally obedient dog will 'fight' on the leash to
get to it. These vomiting and grass eating episodes are not apparently
necessarily connected to diarrhea.

We are very interested in what has afflicted her. We have not done any
type of endoscopy.

I'm open [desperate] for ideas!

" wrote:

Our dog, Maggie, is a German Shepherd Dog

[snip]

Maggie has always been on a strict dog good only diet with zero human
food. She received treats as rewards during obedience training.

Her eating habits and diarrhea seems to follow a cycle. She stops
eating, has diarrhea for 24 to 36 hours and loses weight. Diarrhea is
stabilized and the process of gaining weight starts again. About the
time that she gets to her optimal weight, another diarrhea episode
would start.


[snip]

We are very interested in what has afflicted her. We have not done any
type of endoscopy.

I'm open [desperate] for ideas!

I don't have the answer for you. I have seen some fairly recalcitrant
GI problems that general practice vets have not been able to pin down.
In some cases it appeared to be a matter of finding the "right food" for
that particular dog.

There are specialists in veterinary gastroenterology, and you might
try one of those. One of them wrote a book, which I found extremely
informative, and recommend. I would not look through it for "the
answer," but try to learn from it as background to understand why and
how dogs can have digestive problems, food sensitivities, etc. It is
"Home-Prepared Dog and Cat Diets" by Donald R. Strombeck, DVM,
PhD. He advocates home-prepared diets, as you can guess from the
title. That may or may not be the route you choose to go, but there is
a lot of good information in the book.

Your nearest vet school might be a good resource for finding a
gastroenterology specialist.

If you choose to keep trying modifications of diet, consider the
possibility
that your training treats could screw up the diet. You can probably come
up with something that will work as a treat but be compatible with the
diet. If the diet contains chicken, for example, cubed-up boiled chicken
would probably be a compatible treat.

I suggest holding off on breeding until this problem is under control.
There's no way of knowing how much strain it puts on her system.

HTH,

Amy Dahl

wrote in message
oups.com...

She had
explosive, smelly diarrhea in her kennel various times throughout her
puppy days. The diarrhea continued for 24 to 36 hours and was stopped
often times with metronidozol.

Her eating habits and diarrhea seems to follow a cycle. She stops
eating, has diarrhea for 24 to 36 hours and loses weight.

..........so basically your dog has been ill with the same malady since
puppyhood?

After a particularly persistent bought of diarrhea it was discovered
that she had intestinal worms. An injection of [drontal?] was
administered and very black diarrhea followed for 24 hours. This
cleared the worms up.

.........how do you know? Was a stool sample run again after this? When was
the last stool sample run? Unless it's no more than 1/2 hour old, some
parasites can be missed. In fact even in a fresh sample, things like
Giardia can be missed. What kind of worms did she have? Black diarrhea
means digested blood. I don't think this is a normal reaction to worming.
If this dog had whipworms, sequential treatments are necessary and your dog
might be continually reinfected from the environment. Same goes for
Giardia - continual reinfestation.
Some reading for you about intestinal parasites:
http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/in.../toc_23500.htm
You should also read about Giardiasis:
http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/in...m/bc/21300.htm

The evening of July 4, 2005 Maggie was left alone for a short period of
time while a large neighborhood fireworks display was going on. She had
diarrhea all over the house, which required a total replacement of
carpet. The diarrhea followed for 24 to 36 hours.

..........this is a stress reaction. Has she ever been afraid of noises
before? Might be an endocrine problem.

The neighborhood vet has treated her for inflamed/impacted anal glands.
A repeated emptying of the sacs and treatment with antibiotics and
anti-inflammatory drugs was administered. Again, diarrhea followed.

.. ... I'd be especially worried about the progression of the anal gland
thing, as perianal fistulas are not uncommon in GSDs.

She does have access to feral animal droppings on a daily basis and
horse and cow feces on a weekly basis (weekends).

............I don't know what kind of parasites she might be picking up, but
your vet should know.

Her method of defecating is unusual in the way that she walks as she
defecates. Upon completion she often times jerks back to clean lick
herself in a way that it appears that a sharp pain or sudden sting
occurs in her rear.

............Could be the anal glands. If her poop is soft, that's probably
why she has a hard time getting it out.

She is intact based on our desire to breed her, assuming that her
problems will not be passed genetically.

..........This dog may not ever be strong enough to breed. If you ever get
her well, spay her.

In addition, she has random vomiting of yellow, foamy substance, which
I have read is bile. She eats grass from time to time. When she wants
the grass, this normally obedient dog will 'fight' on the leash to
get to it. These vomiting and grass eating episodes are not apparently
necessarily connected to diarrhea.

.........How do you know? Sounds like her belly hurts.

...............I'd take her to a different vet. This dog needs a complete
workup from a fresh point of view. How far is Texas A &M? Time to go to
the big guns and get some help for your dog.

Here is a section on diseases of the stomach and small intestines in
dogs/cats. I'd read all that apply to dogs and pay particular attention to
the Diagnosis section of Malapsorption Syndromes and what tests need to be
done to rule out other maladies:
http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/in.../toc_23300.htm

.......I hope you can find some help for your dog.

buglady
take out the dog before replying