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Should Pit Bulls be Banned? Please Vote!
Hi everyone,
There is currently a radio station poll (unofficial of course) located at www.howiecarr.com that invites you to vote on whether Pit Bulls should be banned. I love Pit Bulls and voted no. When placing your vote I ask that you consider the fact that your favorite breed could be up for consideration in the years to come. I vote for training and education (but there was no place to express that). Legislation is not the answer. IMO banning Pit Bulls is like banning guns the people that are up to no good are still gonna have em. Judy Be Free, Judy |
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Should Pit Bulls be Banned? Please Vote!
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Should Pit Bulls be Banned? Please Vote!
On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 21:31:39 -0400, Michael A. Ball
wrote: "Outlawed" is their word And your point? The word "outlaw" comes from a Norse word meaning "banished," and is defined as placing something under a ban. -- Shelly http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship) http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther) We can't all, and some just don't. That's all there is to it. -- A.A. Milne |
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Should Pit Bulls be Banned? Please Vote!
On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 21:45:06 -0400, Shelly wrote:
On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 21:31:39 -0400, Michael A. Ball wrote: "Outlawed" is their word And your point? The word "outlaw" comes from a Norse word meaning "banished," and is defined as placing something under a ban. I just wanted to keep my references to the poll accurate, in case some nit-picking busy body came along. ________________________ Whatever it takes. |
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Should Pit Bulls be Banned? Please Vote!
The stupid thing is, even if you agree that pit bulls should be banned
(which I don't), how do you recognize a pit bull? What about a 1/2 pit bull? Should they be banned? 1/4 pit bull? 1/8? What about a heinz 57 that just kinda looks pit-bull ish. I've had people tell me that my pure bred (CKC registered) lab looks like he's got some pit bull in him (some very insistently). I can imagine a situation where, if I didn't have the papers to back it up, some jack ass might decide that 'he's a pit bull cuz he looks like one'. Where is the burden of proof? Should I have to prove that my lab isn't a pit bull? How on earth can you *prove* that any dog is a particular breed? Sure, if you've got breeding records and what not, you might be able to show pretty conclusively that a particular dog is a pit bull, but its not really those people (the responsible owners) that you're trying to control, is it? Now, I'm not saying that pit bulls are just like any other breed of dog. I've not had enough experience over all with them to make a firm judgement on that. My feeling is, is that they *have* been bred to be a certain way. Just like a lab has been bred to like having things in its mouth, a pit bull may be bred to like clamping down super hard on things. That in and of itself isn't really a problem. The problem comes with your 'typical' pit bull owner (or at least the owner that is the way the media portrays them), who essentially (knowingly or not) trains their dog to attack people. I read a story the other month in the paper over here, where someone was bit in the face by a dog (don't recall the breed with certainty, but something in the back of my mind is saying it was a pit bull). Essentially the dog was left in the car, and someone put their hand in to pet the dog. The dog charged the window and bit his face. The owner's responce, was that the dog did nothing wrong, and was doing what she was trained to do (protect the car). Your average joe, training a dog to bite under any circumstances, is like giving a 6 year old a loaded gun. You're just asking for disaster. The problem is, a lot of the time, the violent/protective behaviors are rewarded in these breeds, strengthening their natural instincts, without properly tempering them with control. The pit bulls I've known have all, without exception, been big softies, ditto for the Rotties, and Dobermans. I think if you ban pit bulls, then the people who want a 'protection dog' are just going to turn to another breed. Its not even remotely close to a solution. What the solution is, I have no idea, but banning a particular breed of dog is, well moronic. Dale "Judith Althouse" wrote in message ... Hi everyone, There is currently a radio station poll (unofficial of course) located at www.howiecarr.com that invites you to vote on whether Pit Bulls should be banned. I love Pit Bulls and voted no. When placing your vote I ask that you consider the fact that your favorite breed could be up for consideration in the years to come. I vote for training and education (but there was no place to express that). Legislation is not the answer. IMO banning Pit Bulls is like banning guns the people that are up to no good are still gonna have em. Judy Be Free, Judy |
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Should Pit Bulls be Banned? Please Vote!
"Judith Althouse" wrote in message
... Hi everyone, There is currently a radio station poll (unofficial of course) located at www.howiecarr.com that invites you to vote on whether Pit Bulls should be banned. I love Pit Bulls and voted no. When placing your vote I ask that you consider the fact that your favorite breed could be up for consideration in the years to come. I vote for training and education (but there was no place to express that). Legislation is not the answer. IMO banning Pit Bulls is like banning guns the people that are up to no good are still gonna have em. At this point, 65 say no, 35 yes. flick 100785 |
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Should Pit Bulls be Banned? Please Vote!
Hi y'all
I just took a look and it was 66 against the ban and 34 for. Dale, I think you made an excellent point when you indicated that a mixed breed pit bull or even a dog that looks like a Pit bull and doesn't have an ounce of PBT blood in it can sometime take the rap for things or in this case be outlawed. You gave the example your registered Lab has been questioned as to whether it was a PBT? Ya know I am not so sure about mine. The most recent rescue Jack is Brindle and looks, walks, talks, and behaves like most PBT's I have seen. The Vet swears that he is a full blooded PBT if he had to bet. I know he is a Pit Bull or at least mostly, but I look at his muzzle and I swear it reminds me of my Black Lab's and so do his big fleshy paws. He is a swimming fool. Jubal Early my first PBT mix is amazing to me. The Vet tells me he is mixed with Lab. He is a herding dog if I ever saw one...He moves like my Border Collie mix, water? Oh hell no....his dainty little feet ain't getting in it...I took him and Buck to the lake with me. Buck swam way out with me to the boat launch. Jubal Early is dog paddling at the shore line, yet everyone that sees him, says he's got some Bull dog in him don't he??? Down here they use Rhodesians and whatever they can mix em with to hunt hogs in the swamps...it is a vicous sport (?) you wanna see some mean ass dogs those are the ones. Anyway, I get your point. I agree. I sure don't understand how they would enforce it. Apparently they are banned in Kansas City, Mo. I sure would like to know how that works. Thanks for your thoughts I enjoyed reading them. Judy Be Free, Judy |
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Should Pit Bulls be Banned? Please Vote!
Again, I take a wander over to my unfiltered feed to see what Jerry is up
to... It gets so lonely without him. For the sake of sanity, I've trimmed the cross postings, and sanitized the language. Jerry Howe wrote... Howdy Dale you top postin'. Actually you'll notice I tend to intersperse my posts, I find it makes what I'm replying to easier to read. I disagree with exclusive bottom posting, as apparently do you, as "The STUPID thing is" that it's how dog lovers and Pit Bull Fanciers created breed hysteria {}: ~ ( Yes I agree its breed hysteria, not sure who's fault it is though. even if you agree that pit bulls should be banned A Dog Is A Dog; ..... As A Mass Murderer Is A Mass Murderer. Its interesting how you make an exception for mass murderers in your little spiel. Is there something fundamentally different about them? Could their then not be dogs who are predisposed to certain behaviors? Just a thought anyways. how do you recognize a pit bull? There's many pit dog breeds, dale. You just are not aware of them as being pit fighting dogs. Like Danes and Mastiffs, even St. Bernards. Remember Cujo? Still doesn't answer the underlying question, how do you recognize them? Presumably the one who's dog is being banned isn't going to help you out, and say 'yep he's a -------, go ahead a shoot him'. So how do you prove that the dog in question is the breed that you think they are? What about a 1/2 pit bull? Perhaps you should look up Hitler's critteria for bloodedness to exterminate undesireable races? Interesting comparison to Hitler there. Actually rather appropriate. (In case you couldn't tell from my original post, I am against a ban on any breed) You know, the ones you don't beleive on account of the fact that you question my training techniques? Actually, I think most of your actual advice isn't all that bad, not overly original, but not that bad either. Some of your ideas, (like your a dog is a dog nonsense) are just plain nuts. The problem I have is with your delivery method, and your inability to speak coherently without sticking your name in every sentence. Most of what you say (although not all), comes pretty close to what I do anyways. if I didn't have the papers to back it up, The papers are MEANINGLESS unless the dog is noseprinted Ha. That gave me a nice mental image. Thanks Jerry. some jack ass might decide that 'he's a pit bull cuz he looks like one'. Yeah. Like how they do when the a.k.c. issues a ILP. Thank you, had to google that term, but I learnt something new. You'll note though that the ILP isn't actually used for any kind of positive test. You'll also notice that the dog has to be spayed/neutered in order to compete. They are basically saying, sure he looks close enough, and they are trying to promote pure bred dogs (and he looks like he could be), he can come and play with us *but* as he might not really be all breed -------, we really don't think he should be bred. Should I have to prove that my lab isn't a pit bull? No. You should have to prove that your dog cannot be provoked. Think about what you've said here for a minute. You've said that agression is a trained behavior. You've also said it can be trained in, or it can be trained out. Logically then, given the correct stimulus, any dog can be provoked. Yeah, but you know how dogs escape your shock fences? Don't quite know what the point of that was, but there is no invisible/shock fence system on my property. Bet your Killfilin' life on it{}: ~ ) Actually I don't have you in my kill file, I filter out cross posted messages. That way I only see you when I choose to look at my unfilitered feed. Just like a lab has been bred to like having things in its mouth, Then how come does the experts have to force fetch train them, Dale? Well I have no idea. My guy has loved carrying things around in his mouth since day one. All I ever did was praise him when he brought me things, and whenever I took things off of him. When ever I tossed things for him, he'd run and get them, and when he came towards me, more praise. I have no idea how to 'force fetch train'. Frankly if he didn't enjoy it, what the f*ck is the point of the game? I don't hunt. Have no intention of starting. Why would I do it with him, if he didn't enjoy it? How could such a thing be genetic, as opposed to a matter of training? Well if the musculature of the jaw were developed in a certain way, it could simply be more comfortable for them to have something in their mouth than not to. Another breed might be more comfortable with their jaw muscles tensed. All of this could be inculcated in to the breed through selective breeding (it does however go against your basic "A dog is a dog" principle, so I wouldn't expect you to accept it). I read a story the other month in the paper over here, where someone was bit in the face by a dog (don't recall the breed The breed is irrelevant, if the behavior was TRAINED, as you say. Actually that was the whole point of the story, that it was the idiot owner who drove this behavior in to their dog, rather than just a random attack. LUCKY THING we can extinguish any behavor that's consistent, predictable or repeatable in just a couple of repetitions of the methods you don't believe work Never said I didn't believe they worked. I've long since extinguished all of Erwin's consistent repeatable behaviors, only a few sporadic, not easily repeatable under controlled circumstances, bad behaviors are left. Dempsey's few 'bad' behaviors have similarly been dealt with. (both without any 'force') The dog should have been trained to attack only the body part entering the car. This seems like a very dangerous thing to train. Imagine if some kid stuck their hand in. Now I'm not saying the kid should be sticking their hand in, this is obviously bad behavior on the part of the child, but assuming the kid doesn't know any better, do they really deserve to end up with a severed hand? My feeling is, if you're going to train a dog to protect your car, the safest thing to do, would be to train them to growl and maybe bark, but *not* bite under any circumstances. That should deter pretty much any would be theif, and warn off any random passer by. Your average joe, training a dog to bite under any circumstances, The dog was INSIDE his car. Yes, but there are always unforseen circumstances. Training for the unforseen is, well, next to impossible. is like giving a 6 year old a loaded gun. You don't think a 6 year old can handle a gun? No I don't. I don't think they have the mental capacity to understand what it means to shoot someone. How about handlin a well trained K-9, dale? You think a 6 year old is too small to ask a dog to do something? Depends on the dog, as well as the 6 year old. I would trust my dogs around a 6 year old, I wouldn't however expect them to obey a 6 year old (no reason they should, and I don't feel it necessary to train them to obey a 6 year old). TTYL Dale |
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Should Pit Bulls be Banned? Please Vote!
My dear Dale,
Thanks for getting Jerry? wound up again about Pit Bulls being outlawed/banned. (smile) It was nice to be in the company of someone else ("you, Judith, and the other 2 idiots") that he refferred to. I am used to getting evil comments directed only at me. Now I have partners in crime (you and the other 2 idiots) Thanks for being there for me, bud...I totally agree with you for what it is worth. Something good came out of Jerry getting wound up. I enjoyed his "friend" Picasso's quote by Chief Dan George at the end of Picasso's post. BTW I was introduced to the Cane Corso breed on another thread here. Ya know I would be willing to bet if a Cane Corso was gnawing on the general public (which I do not believe he would) They would be yelling it was a Pit Bull, sure enuff, it was a Pit Bull....do you think it could happen???? Take care .....Judy PS I am busted I thought I was the only one that read Jerry's posts now and then. hehehehehe Be Free, Judy |
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Should Pit Bulls be Banned? Please Vote!
"Picasso" a écrit dans le message de news:
... I don't think you could find bigger sooks of dogs than English Mastiffs. They are beautiful animals. cut Do you really find it useful to quote all the bullsh*t of this mor*n ?? Are you from the same breed ????? |
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