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Should Pit Bulls be Banned? Please Vote!



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 29th 06, 09:51 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Judith Althouse
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Posts: 2,020
Default Should Pit Bulls be Banned? Please Vote!

Hi everyone,
There is currently a radio station poll (unofficial of course) located
at www.howiecarr.com that invites you to vote on whether Pit Bulls
should be banned.
I love Pit Bulls and voted no. When placing your vote I ask that you
consider the fact that your favorite breed could be up for consideration
in the years to come. I vote for training and education (but there was
no place to express that). Legislation is not the answer.
IMO banning Pit Bulls is like banning guns the people that are up to
no good are still gonna have em.
Judy

Be Free,
Judy

  #2  
Old July 30th 06, 02:31 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Michael A. Ball
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Posts: 311
Default Should Pit Bulls be Banned? Please Vote!

On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 16:51:01 -0400, (Judith
Althouse) wrote:

...
www.howiecarr.com invites you to vote on whether Pit Bulls
should be banned...


"Outlawed" is their word, but at present, 59% vote "No".
___________________
A dog's life is too short; their only fault really.
  #3  
Old July 30th 06, 02:45 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
shelly
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Posts: 6,155
Default Should Pit Bulls be Banned? Please Vote!

On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 21:31:39 -0400, Michael A. Ball
wrote:

"Outlawed" is their word


And your point? The word "outlaw" comes from a Norse word meaning
"banished," and is defined as placing something under a ban.

--
Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)

We can't all, and some just don't. That's all there is to it.
-- A.A. Milne
  #4  
Old July 30th 06, 03:30 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Michael A. Ball
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Posts: 311
Default Should Pit Bulls be Banned? Please Vote!

On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 21:45:06 -0400, Shelly wrote:

On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 21:31:39 -0400, Michael A. Ball
wrote:

"Outlawed" is their word


And your point? The word "outlaw" comes from a Norse word meaning
"banished," and is defined as placing something under a ban.


I just wanted to keep my references to the poll accurate, in case some
nit-picking busy body came along.

________________________
Whatever it takes.
  #5  
Old July 30th 06, 05:29 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Dale Atkin
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Posts: 324
Default Should Pit Bulls be Banned? Please Vote!

The stupid thing is, even if you agree that pit bulls should be banned
(which I don't), how do you recognize a pit bull? What about a 1/2 pit bull?
Should they be banned? 1/4 pit bull? 1/8? What about a heinz 57 that just
kinda looks pit-bull ish. I've had people tell me that my pure bred (CKC
registered) lab looks like he's got some pit bull in him (some very
insistently). I can imagine a situation where, if I didn't have the papers
to back it up, some jack ass might decide that 'he's a pit bull cuz he looks
like one'. Where is the burden of proof? Should I have to prove that my lab
isn't a pit bull? How on earth can you *prove* that any dog is a particular
breed? Sure, if you've got breeding records and what not, you might be able
to show pretty conclusively that a particular dog is a pit bull, but its not
really those people (the responsible owners) that you're trying to control,
is it?

Now, I'm not saying that pit bulls are just like any other breed of dog.
I've not had enough experience over all with them to make a firm judgement
on that. My feeling is, is that they *have* been bred to be a certain way.
Just like a lab has been bred to like having things in its mouth, a pit bull
may be bred to like clamping down super hard on things. That in and of
itself isn't really a problem. The problem comes with your 'typical' pit
bull owner (or at least the owner that is the way the media portrays them),
who essentially (knowingly or not) trains their dog to attack people. I read
a story the other month in the paper over here, where someone was bit in the
face by a dog (don't recall the breed with certainty, but something in the
back of my mind is saying it was a pit bull). Essentially the dog was left
in the car, and someone put their hand in to pet the dog. The dog charged
the window and bit his face.
The owner's responce, was that the dog did nothing wrong, and was doing what
she was trained to do (protect the car). Your average joe, training a dog to
bite under any circumstances, is like giving a 6 year old a loaded gun.
You're just asking for disaster. The problem is, a lot of the time, the
violent/protective behaviors are rewarded in these breeds, strengthening
their natural instincts, without properly tempering them with control. The
pit bulls I've known have all, without exception, been big softies, ditto
for the Rotties, and Dobermans.

I think if you ban pit bulls, then the people who want a 'protection dog'
are just going to turn to another breed. Its not even remotely close to a
solution. What the solution is, I have no idea, but banning a particular
breed of dog is, well moronic.

Dale

"Judith Althouse" wrote in message
...
Hi everyone,
There is currently a radio station poll (unofficial of course) located
at www.howiecarr.com that invites you to vote on whether Pit Bulls
should be banned.
I love Pit Bulls and voted no. When placing your vote I ask that you
consider the fact that your favorite breed could be up for consideration
in the years to come. I vote for training and education (but there was
no place to express that). Legislation is not the answer.
IMO banning Pit Bulls is like banning guns the people that are up to
no good are still gonna have em.
Judy

Be Free,
Judy



  #6  
Old July 31st 06, 04:54 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
flick
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Posts: 568
Default Should Pit Bulls be Banned? Please Vote!

"Judith Althouse" wrote in message
...
Hi everyone,
There is currently a radio station poll (unofficial of course) located
at www.howiecarr.com that invites you to vote on whether Pit Bulls
should be banned.
I love Pit Bulls and voted no. When placing your vote I ask that you
consider the fact that your favorite breed could be up for consideration
in the years to come. I vote for training and education (but there was
no place to express that). Legislation is not the answer.
IMO banning Pit Bulls is like banning guns the people that are up to
no good are still gonna have em.


At this point, 65 say no, 35 yes.

flick 100785


  #7  
Old July 31st 06, 04:43 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Judith Althouse
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Posts: 2,020
Default Should Pit Bulls be Banned? Please Vote!

Hi y'all
I just took a look and it was 66 against the ban and 34 for.
Dale, I think you made an excellent point when you indicated that a
mixed breed pit bull or even a dog that looks like a Pit bull and
doesn't have an ounce of PBT blood in it can sometime take the rap for
things or in this case be outlawed. You gave the example your
registered Lab has been questioned as to whether it was a PBT?
Ya know I am not so sure about mine. The most recent rescue Jack is
Brindle and looks, walks, talks, and behaves like most PBT's I have
seen. The Vet swears that he is a full blooded PBT if he had to bet. I
know he is a Pit Bull or at least mostly, but I look at his muzzle and I
swear it reminds me of my Black Lab's and so do his big fleshy paws. He
is a swimming fool. Jubal Early my first PBT mix is amazing to me. The
Vet tells me he is mixed with Lab. He is a herding dog if I ever saw
one...He moves like my Border Collie mix, water? Oh hell no....his
dainty little feet ain't getting in it...I took him and Buck to the lake
with me. Buck swam way out with me to the boat launch. Jubal Early is
dog paddling at the shore line, yet everyone that sees him, says he's
got some Bull dog in him don't he??? Down here they use Rhodesians and
whatever they can mix em with to hunt hogs in the swamps...it is a
vicous sport (?) you wanna see some mean ass dogs those are the ones.
Anyway, I get your point. I agree. I sure don't understand how they
would enforce it. Apparently they are banned in Kansas City, Mo. I
sure would like to know how that works.
Thanks for your thoughts I enjoyed reading them. Judy

Be Free,
Judy

  #8  
Old August 2nd 06, 04:10 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Dale Atkin
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Posts: 324
Default Should Pit Bulls be Banned? Please Vote!

Again, I take a wander over to my unfiltered feed to see what Jerry is up
to... It gets so lonely without him. For the sake of sanity, I've trimmed
the cross postings, and sanitized the language.

Jerry Howe wrote...
Howdy Dale
you top postin'.


Actually you'll notice I tend to intersperse my posts, I find it makes what
I'm replying to easier to read. I disagree with exclusive bottom posting, as
apparently do you, as

"The STUPID thing is" that it's how dog lovers and
Pit Bull Fanciers created breed hysteria {}: ~ (


Yes I agree its breed hysteria, not sure who's fault it is though.

even if you agree that pit bulls should be banned


A Dog Is A Dog;

.....
As A Mass Murderer Is A Mass Murderer.


Its interesting how you make an exception for mass murderers in your little
spiel. Is there something fundamentally different about them? Could their
then not be dogs who are predisposed to certain behaviors? Just a thought
anyways.

how do you recognize a pit bull?


There's many pit dog breeds, dale. You just
are not aware of them as being pit fighting dogs.
Like Danes and Mastiffs, even St. Bernards. Remember
Cujo?


Still doesn't answer the underlying question, how do you recognize them?
Presumably the one who's dog is being banned isn't going to help you out,
and say 'yep he's a -------, go ahead a shoot him'. So how do you prove that
the dog in question is the breed that you think they are?

What about a 1/2 pit bull?


Perhaps you should look up Hitler's critteria
for bloodedness to exterminate undesireable
races?


Interesting comparison to Hitler there. Actually rather appropriate. (In
case you couldn't tell from my original post, I am against a ban on any
breed)


You know, the ones you don't beleive on account of the fact that
you question my training techniques?


Actually, I think most of your actual advice isn't all that bad, not overly
original, but not that bad either. Some of your ideas, (like your a dog is a
dog nonsense) are just plain nuts. The problem I have is with your delivery
method, and your inability to speak coherently without sticking your name in
every sentence.
Most of what you say (although not all), comes pretty close to what I do
anyways.

if I didn't have the papers to back it up,


The papers are MEANINGLESS unless the dog is noseprinted


Ha. That gave me a nice mental image. Thanks Jerry.


some jack ass might decide that 'he's a pit bull cuz he looks like one'.


Yeah. Like how they do when the a.k.c. issues a ILP.


Thank you, had to google that term, but I learnt something new. You'll note
though that the ILP isn't actually used for any kind of positive test.
You'll also notice that the dog has to be spayed/neutered in order to
compete. They are basically saying, sure he looks close enough, and they are
trying to promote pure bred dogs (and he looks like he could be), he can
come and play with us *but* as he might not really be all breed -------, we
really don't think he should be bred.

Should I have to prove that my lab isn't a pit bull?


No. You should have to prove that your dog cannot be provoked.


Think about what you've said here for a minute. You've said that agression
is a trained behavior. You've also said it can be trained in, or it can be
trained out. Logically then, given the correct stimulus, any dog can be
provoked.

Yeah, but you know how dogs escape your shock fences?


Don't quite know what the point of that was, but there is no invisible/shock
fence system on my property.

Bet your Killfilin' life on it{}: ~ )


Actually I don't have you in my kill file, I filter out cross posted
messages. That way I only see you when I choose to look at my unfilitered
feed.


Just like a lab has been bred to like having things in its mouth,


Then how come does the experts have to force fetch train them, Dale?


Well I have no idea. My guy has loved carrying things around in his mouth
since day one. All I ever did was praise him when he brought me things, and
whenever I took things off of him. When ever I tossed things for him, he'd
run and get them, and when he came towards me, more praise. I have no idea
how to 'force fetch train'. Frankly if he didn't enjoy it, what the f*ck is
the point of the game? I don't hunt. Have no intention of starting. Why
would I do it with him, if he didn't enjoy it?

How could such a thing be genetic, as opposed to a matter of training? Well
if the musculature of the jaw were developed in a certain way, it could
simply be more comfortable for them to have something in their mouth than
not to. Another breed might be more comfortable with their jaw muscles
tensed. All of this could be inculcated in to the breed through selective
breeding (it does however go against your basic "A dog is a dog" principle,
so I wouldn't expect you to accept it).

I read a story the other month in the paper over here, where
someone was bit in the face by a dog (don't recall the breed


The breed is irrelevant, if the behavior was TRAINED, as you say.


Actually that was the whole point of the story, that it was the idiot owner
who drove this behavior in to their dog, rather than just a random attack.

LUCKY THING we can extinguish any behavor that's consistent,
predictable or repeatable in just a couple of repetitions of
the methods you don't believe work


Never said I didn't believe they worked. I've long since extinguished all of
Erwin's consistent repeatable behaviors, only a few sporadic, not easily
repeatable under controlled circumstances, bad behaviors are left. Dempsey's
few 'bad' behaviors have similarly been dealt with. (both without any
'force')

The dog should have been
trained to attack only the body part entering the
car.


This seems like a very dangerous thing to train. Imagine if some kid stuck
their hand in. Now I'm not saying the kid should be sticking their hand in,
this is obviously bad behavior on the part of the child, but assuming the
kid doesn't know any better, do they really deserve to end up with a severed
hand? My feeling is, if you're going to train a dog to protect your car, the
safest thing to do, would be to train them to growl and maybe bark, but
*not* bite under any circumstances. That should deter pretty much any would
be theif, and warn off any random passer by.

Your average joe, training a dog to bite under any circumstances,


The dog was INSIDE his car.


Yes, but there are always unforseen circumstances. Training for the
unforseen is, well, next to impossible.


is like giving a 6 year old a loaded gun.


You don't think a 6 year old can handle a gun?


No I don't. I don't think they have the mental capacity to understand what
it means to shoot someone.

How
about handlin a well trained K-9, dale? You think
a 6 year old is too small to ask a dog to do something?


Depends on the dog, as well as the 6 year old. I would trust my dogs around
a 6 year old, I wouldn't however expect them to obey a 6 year old (no reason
they should, and I don't feel it necessary to train them to obey a 6 year
old).


TTYL

Dale


  #9  
Old August 13th 06, 01:32 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Judith Althouse
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Posts: 2,020
Default Should Pit Bulls be Banned? Please Vote!

My dear Dale,
Thanks for getting Jerry? wound up again about Pit Bulls being
outlawed/banned. (smile) It was nice to be in the company of someone
else ("you, Judith, and the other 2 idiots") that he refferred to. I am
used to getting evil comments directed only at me. Now I have partners
in crime (you and the other 2 idiots) Thanks for being there for me,
bud...I totally agree with you for what it is worth. Something good
came out of Jerry getting wound up. I enjoyed his "friend" Picasso's
quote by Chief Dan George at the end of Picasso's post.


BTW I was introduced to the Cane Corso breed on another thread here.
Ya know I would be willing to bet if a Cane Corso was gnawing on the
general public (which I do not believe he would) They would be yelling
it was a Pit Bull, sure enuff, it was a Pit Bull....do you think it
could happen???? Take care .....Judy

PS I am busted I thought I was the only one that read Jerry's posts now
and then. hehehehehe

Be Free,
Judy

  #10  
Old August 14th 06, 08:50 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior,rec.pets.dogs.health,alt.animals.dog,rec.pets.dogs.rescue,rec.pets.dogs.breeds
Bigjoe
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Posts: 133
Default Should Pit Bulls be Banned? Please Vote!

"Picasso" a écrit dans le message de news:
...
I don't think you could find bigger sooks of dogs than English Mastiffs.
They are beautiful animals.
cut



Do you really find it useful
to quote all the bullsh*t of this mor*n ??
Are you from the same breed ?????



 




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