I was looking over petfinder and a GSD recsue had a "Panda Shepherd." I did
a google search and found: http://www.pandashepherds.com/index.html .

From the website, it sounds like the breeder had DNA tests done on the
original white marked GSD pup and it was determined it was from the two
registered GSDs.

Also in the website, they say that they are having UC Davis to map the white
markings in this line of GSDs. From the wording it sounds like this is a
unique set of white markings - do you think they are considering this
different from Irish White (that's what it looks like to me). Have you
ever heard of a spontaneous mutation bringing up the Irish white gene in a
solid colored breed of dog?

Chris

"chris jung" wrote in
:

I was looking over petfinder and a GSD recsue had a "Panda Shepherd."

These "Panda" GSDs have been bred just for few years and already now there
are enough of them to find their way to rescue? Or perhaps somebody has
just listed a white spotted GSD-lookalike as "Panda Shepherd". (I could't
find that dog from Petfinder.)

did a google search and found: http://www.pandashepherds.com/index.html

Yep, Panda Shepherds. Miscolored but probably totally purebred German
Shepherds. They have been discussed both here and on several genetics
mailing lists since Franka's first litter was born.

Also in the website, they say that they are having UC Davis to map the
white markings in this line of GSDs. From the wording it sounds like
this is a unique set of white markings - do you think they are
considering this different from Irish White

These "Pandas" are not irish. If they were, there wouldn't have been any
patterned pups among Franka's pups except in the super rare case that the
sire would have happaned to be a carrier too. This "Panda" pattern really
is inherited like a dominant, and not like a recessive like true irish.

Panda looks a lot like "false irish" to me - genotype Ssw. Panda folks say
that no homozygous Pandas have been born this far, and I kind of guess that
when such a dog is born, it will look like swsw extreme white spotted.
Mostly white with perhaps some colored patches on head or body.

The contents of S locus is not yet known, so this UC Davis study might help
to find the "Panda" gene and compare it to for example with "flashy"
Boxers, which are Ssw.

Have you ever heard of a spontaneous mutation bringing up
the Irish white gene in a solid colored breed of dog?

Nope, but that mutation has still happened at least once as there are no
irish patterned with canids but there certainly are irish patterned dogs in
several breeds.

Liisa

"chris jung" wrote in message
...
I was looking over petfinder and a GSD recsue had a "Panda Shepherd." I did
a google search and found: http://www.pandashepherds.com/index.html .


I have never heard of a panda shepherd. I'm curious as to why anyone would
want to create them. Also wondering who wrote the detailed breed standard
on the website. I'd like to compare it to the AKC shepherd standard when I
have time (wondering if white patches is a disqualification).

Margaret

"Margaret" wrote in message
...

I have never heard of a panda shepherd. I'm curious as to why anyone
would want to create them. Also wondering who wrote the detailed breed
standard on the website. I'd like to compare it to the AKC shepherd
standard when I have time (wondering if white patches is a
disqualification).



The AKC standard doesn't specify patches, but clearly abhors white.
They want strong colors, and white was always viewed as a "weak" color.


--
Toni
http://www.irish-wolfhounds.com

From: "Liisa Sarakontu"
"chris jung" wrote in
:

I was looking over petfinder and a GSD recsue had a "Panda Shepherd."

These "Panda" GSDs have been bred just for few years and already now there
are enough of them to find their way to rescue? Or perhaps somebody has
just listed a white spotted GSD-lookalike as "Panda Shepherd". (I could't
find that dog from Petfinder.)


The two dogs are he http://brightstargsd.org/mainpages/availfemales.html
.. This is a GSD rescue and they don't say that these are mixed. OTOH, the
mom (Gabby) looks a little Akita-ish to me but that could be because I'm
not used to a GSD with all that white. The pup (Maggie Mae) certainly has
the GSD body & angulation but the ears are drop and I'm not sure about that
head.


did a google search and found: http://www.pandashepherds.com/index.html

Yep, Panda Shepherds. Miscolored but probably totally purebred German
Shepherds. They have been discussed both here and on several genetics
mailing lists since Franka's first litter was born.

Also in the website, they say that they are having UC Davis to map the
white markings in this line of GSDs. From the wording it sounds like
this is a unique set of white markings - do you think they are
considering this different from Irish White

These "Pandas" are not irish. If they were, there wouldn't have been any
patterned pups among Franka's pups except in the super rare case that the
sire would have happaned to be a carrier too. This "Panda" pattern really
is inherited like a dominant, and not like a recessive like true irish.

Panda looks a lot like "false irish" to me - genotype Ssw. Panda folks say
that no homozygous Pandas have been born this far, and I kind of guess
that
when such a dog is born, it will look like swsw extreme white spotted.
Mostly white with perhaps some colored patches on head or body.

Like Maggie Mae (if she's really a Panda GSD)

The contents of S locus is not yet known, so this UC Davis study might
help
to find the "Panda" gene and compare it to for example with "flashy"
Boxers, which are Ssw.

Have you ever heard of a spontaneous mutation bringing up
the Irish white gene in a solid colored breed of dog?

Nope, but that mutation has still happened at least once as there are no
irish patterned with canids but there certainly are irish patterned dogs
in
several breeds.

Good point. Hmm I spy with my little eye, two Irish White dogs. . .

Chris and her collies
Pablo & Lucy

"Margaret" wrote in message
...

"chris jung" wrote in message
...
I was looking over petfinder and a GSD recsue had a "Panda Shepherd." I
did a google search and found: http://www.pandashepherds.com/index.html .


I have never heard of a panda shepherd. I'm curious as to why anyone
would want to create them. Also wondering who wrote the detailed breed
standard on the website. I'd like to compare it to the AKC shepherd
standard when I have time (wondering if white patches is a
disqualification).

From the website it seems that this was a spontaneous mutation. The
original white marked pup was DNA tested and her parents were AKC registered
GSDs. So I don't think the breeder "wanted" to create the first one (you
can't request a spontaneous mutation) but she certainly took advantage of
it, gave her white marked GSDs a "cute" name and went on breeding them.

As far as the AKC is concerned, these are pups born from GSD parents and can
be registered and shown. So hypothetically they could be shown in
conformation but it would be wasted money since no judge is going to give
them points. But as AKC registered GSDs they can complete in all
performance events.

Chris and her smoothies,
Pablo and Lucy the Goose

" "chris jung" wrote in message
...

From the website it seems that this was a spontaneous mutation. The
original white marked pup was DNA tested and her parents were AKC
registered GSDs. So I don't think the breeder "wanted" to create the first
one (you can't request a spontaneous mutation) but she certainly took
advantage of it, gave her white marked GSDs a "cute" name and went on
breeding them.

As far as the AKC is concerned, snip

Chris and her smoothies,
Pablo and Lucy the Goose

Thank you! This is the kind of information I was hoping to hear about.

Margaret

"chris jung" wrote in
:

The two dogs are he
http://brightstargsd.org/mainpages/availfemales.html . This is a GSD
rescue and they don't say that these are mixed. OTOH, the mom (Gabby)
looks a little Akita-ish to me but that could be because I'm not used
to a GSD with all that white. The pup (Maggie Mae) certainly has the
GSD body & angulation but the ears are drop and I'm not sure about that
head.

These are piebalds and not "panda patterneds". Especially the dam is a very
regular piebald and not an extreme swsw which I would expect to see if
"panda pattern" was Ssw.

Think about white Boxers. They are swsw, and they hardly ever has this much
color. The "flashy" dogs in that breed have on average about the same
amount or somewhat less white than "Pandas", and still their white ones are
nearly pure white with just some minor patching here and there and rarely
any bigger patches on head.

Cross Border Collie with GSD (or take such a cross from any shelter as they
seem to be rather common), and cross it with an Akita (American, not
Japanese) and you get dogs which resemble these rescue dogs. I don't think
that they are purebred GSDs or Panda Shepherds. Or the puppy at least
isn't.

So many pretty dogs looking for new homes, sigh...

Liisa

"Liisa Sarakontu" wrote in message
6...
"chris jung" wrote in
:

The two dogs are he
http://brightstargsd.org/mainpages/availfemales.html . This is a GSD
rescue and they don't say that these are mixed. OTOH, the mom (Gabby)
looks a little Akita-ish to me but that could be because I'm not used
to a GSD with all that white. The pup (Maggie Mae) certainly has the
GSD body & angulation but the ears are drop and I'm not sure about that
head.

These are piebalds and not "panda patterneds". Especially the dam is a
very
regular piebald and not an extreme swsw which I would expect to see if
"panda pattern" was Ssw.

Think about white Boxers. They are swsw, and they hardly ever has this
much
color.

Whoa - I'm confused. I thought color-headed white collies were sw sw?


Liisa

"chris jung" wrote in
:

Whoa - I'm confused. I thought color-headed white collies were sw sw?

Yep, at least according to the most common theory. The main difference
between white Boxers and color headed white Collies is the amount of
pigment on head. S locus alleles control mainly the amount of white on
body, and the amount of white on head is at least partially controlled by
something else.

Non-white Collies are bred to have very small white markings on head. Solid
head is most common, and when white is present, it is normally just a snip
or a narrow stripe. But in Boxers white muzzles and stripes, even blazes
are favored. Just solid Boxers can have solid heads, and even they have
often at least a snip on muzzle and a white lower jaw.

So, when you combine the stuff which gives nearly solid head with swsw, you
get a white dog with nice colored patches on head (and hardly any risk for
deafness). But when you have these "more white on head" things combined
with swsw, you are far more likely to get a dog with white head.

The other theory is that swsw genotype gives actually nearly white dog with
very little color on head, and white Collies are not swsw but spsp
piebalds. Just very extreme piebalds with maximum amount of "minus" aka
"lots of white" modifiers.

Liisa