Diddy, Tara, Shelly, thank you.

I log on here hoping to read some insights about dogs from the people
I've come to respect and admire, get into a good discussion or heated
argument, or be entertained by some of the flying barbs and
the exploits of Harlan, Kahn, and others. I figure I'd better be
prepared with a thick skin--the price of expressing an opinion.

I don't expect gratification on a personal level, beyond hoping
someone will let me know they've found an idea or suggestion
useful, and that the talented and knowledgeable core on this
forum treat me as a peer. I am floored. Loyalty is wonderful
and too rare, but here you are taking up for me. I mentioned
in a post a few weeks ago about some people behaving
astonishingly badly. It makes me treasure it when people
behave well. You do your dogs credit.

Not only that, you've complimented me more than I
thought possible. You've apparently paid close enough attention
to my posts to know more about me than I realized I'd let on. You
make me feel valued and appreciated! I've tended to feel a bit of an
outsider, thinking I am less sentimental than many here. Tara is right,

though--I do care about dogs.

I'm not really worried about Judith. I consider her a bad actor.
Like Leah, she stole a dog and indulged in a lot of self-congratulatory
rationalization. Like Leah, I don't think there's enough common
ground to support productive communication.

Mostly I ignore her posts. I answered the one because it was
addressed directly to me. Trying to be polite. I didn't want to
feed her misconceptions, but it's her prerogative to think of me
however she likes, and to pigeonhole my comments
according to my tally of deceased animals and friends,
if she so desires.

In case anyone else misunderstood me, though:

The statement of Diddy's that I reacted to was

If you even THINK it's time, it's past time. Because even the thought
of
letting them go is so repulsive to you, that you would fight to your
last
breath to hold them close. But when you reach the point that you start
to
wonder if it's time, then the dog has crossed the line, and it's past
time.

My issue is not with the responsibility of euthanasia, it's with
the criterion here. I wondered every day for several days, I think
it was, it felt like ages, with my Lab Shasta. We made some
adjustments to his pain medications because they seemed to be
compromising his heart. One day we had reduced the pain meds
and it obviously hurt him to get up. He lay there and watched me
as I went about my chores. I had this strong feeling that as long
as he could keep an eye on me, he was fulfilling his mission, which
was to accompany me on the road of life, and would not want to
be denied it.

I didn't think of Shasta as a pet. He was a mentor and an inspiration,
a better person than I, someone I will spend the rest of my life
living up to. I had control over many aspects of his existence, but
I considered him in many ways my superior. Nothing I know or
assume about "dogs" or "death" or "kindness" told me what the
right time was. I only knew that I wouldn't fail to do the best I could

by Shasta. That would be an unthinkable violation of trust. I just
had many doubts about when.

The next day we got him his Fentanyl patch, and he was like a
young dog again, or so it seemed. Two days after that, following
a night in which he struggled to breathe with fluid in his lungs,
I took him to the vet in my pickup. He lay with his head on my
lap, with the A/C cranked up to help him breathe, until she
could come out.

My only point is, I don't think I hung onto him too long. I don't
know, but the feeling I had, akin to the one that told me THIS was
the dog for me twelve years before, seemed as good
a guide as any. He was strong and I felt he would rather
exercise that strength than have it taken from him. This
despite the fact that it was several days from the time I
started to question whether it was time, to when I finally
felt it was right.

Just in case anyone is in any doubt, I support the individual
judgment of any caring owner, whether they share my opinion
or not.

Amy Dahl

On Mon, 07 Aug 2006 14:36:03 GMT, Amy Dahl ,
clicked their heels and said:

I log on here hoping to read some insights about dogs from the people
I've come to respect and admire, get into a good discussion or heated
argument, or be entertained by some of the flying barbs and
the exploits of Harlan, Kahn, and others. I figure I'd better be
prepared with a thick skin--the price of expressing an opinion.

I've been wayyyy too busy lately to keep up with threads, especially
the Dog Whisperer thread(s), so I've obviously missed a lot!

Amy - just my two cents. You've always seemed like a very skilled and
compassionate dog owner/handler/trainer and a very welcome addition to
this newsgroup.

The core of this newsgroup is one of the most rational and intelligent
groups of "dog people" I have ever encountered. I participate in some
other dog forums where more people are like the recent drop-ins, and
they get very bizarre.

I skip around here, based someonewhat on who posted a thread, but try
to pay attention to losses and brags as well.

I've had 2 dogs with giardia this last week+, and a &^*&(* yard sale
(my last one EVER TYVM!) and just a whole lot of other things keeping
me busy.

This is a forum which can be aggravating, but is truly enjoyable most
of the time, and Amy, you are part of that.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

On Mon, 07 Aug 2006 10:49:48 -0400, Janet B
wrote:

I've had 2 dogs with giardia this last week+

Details! Details!

We want details!

Heh.

--
Handsome Jack Morrison

Hezbollah Video Dating Service:
http://www.adammutterperl.com/video/hezbollah.mov

Norwegian Author: "Israel Is History"
http://ace.mu.nu/archives/189524.php

Reuters admits altering Beirut photo!
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...286966,00.html

Hezbollah is using the UN as its bitch.
http://jameshudnall.com/blog.php?/we..._un_is_a_joke/

The Brink of Madness. A familiar place.
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q...Q4OWMzNDhmMzk=

What the Democrats and their money man (George Soros) have in store for American workers:
http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/20...eam-up-to.html

Obsession: Radical Islam’s War with the West (a must-see movie!):
http://www.obsessionthemovie.com/

If you don't want your own DVD, you can view the movie he
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...78181614&hl=en

It's over an hour long, so make some popcorn, crack open a beer, and take a good, hard look at what's coming.

Or...you can keep your head stuck in the sand.

Janet B wrote:

Amy - just my two cents. You've always seemed like a very skilled and
compassionate dog owner/handler/trainer and a very welcome addition to
this newsgroup.

Thank you.

With reinforcement like this, you can all anticipate
hearing even more from me....


I've had 2 dogs with giardia this last week+, and a &^*&(* yard sale
(my last one EVER TYVM!) and just a whole lot of other things keeping
me busy.

Care to tell me how they were diagnosed and treated? I've
had some unsettling experiences with presumed giardia
and it seems the more I learn, the more confused I get.
I just treated our two puppies, Lucky and Sugar, for it. In
fact they're still on the metranidizole. Did you go in for a
comprehensive sanitizing binge? Do you have ideas how
they got it?

Amy Dahl

On Mon, 07 Aug 2006 14:36:03 GMT, Amy Dahl
wrote:


The statement of Diddy's that I reacted to was

If you even THINK it's time, it's past time. Because even the thought
of
letting them go is so repulsive to you, that you would fight to your
last
breath to hold them close. But when you reach the point that you start
to
wonder if it's time, then the dog has crossed the line, and it's past
time.

Amy, I don't agree with this either. Not to speak for Diddy, but I
wonder if she really meant this literally. Boomer's condition changes
enough that there have been many times I thought I'd be saying goodbye
the next day, only to have him rally enough that I knew without a
doubt that he wasn't ready.

My only point is, I don't think I hung onto him too long. I don't
know, but the feeling I had, akin to the one that told me THIS was
the dog for me twelve years before, seemed as good
a guide as any. He was strong and I felt he would rather
exercise that strength than have it taken from him. This
despite the fact that it was several days from the time I
started to question whether it was time, to when I finally
felt it was right.

Dogs are individuals and have differing levels of tolerance to pain
and discomfort, as well as differing types and strengths of bonds to
their owners. You know your dogs better than anyone else, and if you
don't think you held onto him too long, I'm sure you didn't.

Just in case anyone is in any doubt, I support the individual
judgment of any caring owner, whether they share my opinion
or not.

And that's it exactly.

Mustang Sally

in thread : Amy Dahl
whittled the following words:

I'm not really worried about Judith. I consider her a bad actor.
Like Leah, she stole a dog and indulged in a lot of self-congratulatory
rationalization. Like Leah, I don't think there's enough common
ground to support productive communication.


I thinks Judith is NOT a bad actor. I think she's a good hearted person,
and has initially been misunderstood and treated badly (as usual for this
group) and is lashing out at everyone in defensive fashion, while (as
usual) people twist her words and intentions and go with worst case
scenarios, until the confused person goes into total meltdown, and presents
herself in bad light.

I know Judith misread and misinterpretted what you said, and took it
equally in an ugly twist. I can understand why she did. I was trying to
point out to her, that there was a misinterpretation here. Just as she
misinterpretted and insisted that Sally supported greyhound racing and was
a part of the "machine" when we all know this to not be true.

I equally think Judith was abused as a whole, not paying attention to WHO
did it, because I quit reading that long ago, the deviated mutations of
thought on both sides from the original made my head hurt.

The statement of Diddy's that I reacted to was

If you even THINK it's time, it's past time. Because even the thought
of
letting them go is so repulsive to you, that you would fight to your
last
breath to hold them close. But when you reach the point that you start
to
wonder if it's time, then the dog has crossed the line, and it's past
time.

My issue is not with the responsibility of euthanasia, it's with
the criterion here. I wondered every day for several days, I think
it was, it felt like ages, with my Lab Shasta. We made some
adjustments to his pain medications because they seemed to be
compromising his heart. One day we had reduced the pain meds
and it obviously hurt him to get up. He lay there and watched me
as I went about my chores. I had this strong feeling that as long
as he could keep an eye on me, he was fulfilling his mission, which
was to accompany me on the road of life, and would not want to
be denied it.

I didn't think of Shasta as a pet. He was a mentor and an inspiration,
a better person than I, someone I will spend the rest of my life
living up to. I had control over many aspects of his existence, but
I considered him in many ways my superior. Nothing I know or
assume about "dogs" or "death" or "kindness" told me what the
right time was. I only knew that I wouldn't fail to do the best I could

by Shasta. That would be an unthinkable violation of trust. I just
had many doubts about when.

The next day we got him his Fentanyl patch, and he was like a
young dog again, or so it seemed. Two days after that, following
a night in which he struggled to breathe with fluid in his lungs,
I took him to the vet in my pickup. He lay with his head on my
lap, with the A/C cranked up to help him breathe, until she
could come out.

My only point is, I don't think I hung onto him too long. I don't
know, but the feeling I had, akin to the one that told me THIS was
the dog for me twelve years before, seemed as good
a guide as any. He was strong and I felt he would rather
exercise that strength than have it taken from him. This
despite the fact that it was several days from the time I
started to question whether it was time, to when I finally
felt it was right.

Just in case anyone is in any doubt, I support the individual
judgment of any caring owner, whether they share my opinion
or not.

Amy Dahl


And I agree with your last and final statement. Anyone wrestling with
whether it's "time" has to make that decision themselves. They have my
sympathies, and NOT my judgement.
As for Shasta, the same. You have my sympathies, and I wouldn't even think
to judge on what is Right or Wrong.

On Mon, 07 Aug 2006 10:51:26 -0500, diddy
wrote:

I know Judith misread and misinterpretted what you said

I think Judith does that waaaay too often to bode well for her future
here. Sometimes she's not even in the right ballpark, much less the
right seat.

And using WebTV as a newsgroup reader certainty doesn't help her any.

FWIW, I don't think she's a bad actor, either.

Misguided, yes.

Thin-skinned, yes.

Able to leap to wrong conclusions in a single bound, yes.

--
Handsome Jack Morrison

Hezbollah Video Dating Service:
http://www.adammutterperl.com/video/hezbollah.mov

Norwegian Author: "Israel Is History"
http://ace.mu.nu/archives/189524.php

Reuters admits altering Beirut photo!
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...286966,00.html

Hezbollah is using the UN as its bitch.
http://jameshudnall.com/blog.php?/we..._un_is_a_joke/

The Brink of Madness. A familiar place.
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q...Q4OWMzNDhmMzk=

Obsession: Radical Islam’s War with the West (a must-see movie!):
http://www.obsessionthemovie.com/

If you don't want your own DVD, you can view the movie he
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...78181614&hl=en

It's over an hour long, so make some popcorn, crack open a beer, and take a good, hard look at what's coming.

Or...you can keep your head stuck in the sand.

in thread : Handsome Jack
Morrison whittled the following words:

Thin-skinned, yes.

Yes, but she had salt and gravel rubbed in open words that is bound to make
anyone cranky

Able to leap to wrong conclusions in a single bound, yes.
As opposed to DELIBERATELY turning words and thoughts around in an effort
to harrass her, and deliberately rephrasing he comments in the worst
light, and twisting her words and intentions beyond all recognition?

I can see why frustration would lead her to that.

Unintentional leaping to wrong conclusions is less of a crime in my mind
than calculated and deliberate sabotage with intent to frustrate a newbie.

No Web TV did her no favors.

diddy wrote:

I thinks Judith is NOT a bad actor.

I hope you are right. I haven't paid
attention to her exchanges with others here. I tend to skim
looking for stuff that interests me.

John and I do get accosted, and have the law called on
us, for things that observers think cruel or inappropriate. The
biggest one is having the dogs on the truck on sunny summer
days. JQPublic doesn't understand the greenhouse effect, or
that our specially designed and constructed, insulated,
ventilated dog box is *not* the same as a car with glass
windows. Other people think training is unnatural, or keeping
dogs in a kennel is cruel. And as you know, we kill birds.

I am grateful that these misinformed do-gooders choose
to act within the law and not outside it. I worry about
animal-rights nuts and other self-righteous vigilante types
acting on the same impulses. People have a right to be
ignorant, and they have a right to be offensive, but I hope
they always stop short of stealing our customers' dogs.

I cannot fail to see someone who advocates theft as a first
course of action as a threat. How can people of diverse
opinions live together, and make a living, if the business of
imposing your will at your neighbor's expense, in disregard
of the law, catches on?

I never gave Leah much credit for supposed good intentions
either. Actions count.

Judith's getting angry at me or not liking my posts isn't a
factor.


As for Shasta, the same. You have my sympathies, and I wouldn't even think
to judge on what is Right or Wrong.

I figured as much. I didn't feel criticized; just like discussing
your statement.

Amy Dahl

diddy wrote:


No Web TV did her no favors.

I am not familiar with Web TV. How does it figure into
anyone's perception or participation in this group?

Amy Dahl