I just got my puppy which is a Yorktese (mixture of Maltese and Yorkshire
terrier) on Thursday August 10th. He is 14 weeks old. I am attempting to
litter box train him. I have read books that say that a dog will not
defecate in his crate but that is the not happening with my puppy. I can
wait for hours and he will not defecate in the box but as soon as I place
him in his crate he defecates and urinates. I have tried blotting his urine
and placing it in the box as well as put a small piece of feces in the
box.and last night he did urinate once , but this morning and afternoon he
is doing in the crate. I am using puppy pads and shredded paper in the
box. Please can anyone offer any suggestions.

On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 17:24:15 GMT, "janet hodson"
wrote:

I just got my puppy which is a Yorktese (mixture of Maltese and Yorkshire
terrier) on Thursday August 10th. He is 14 weeks old. I am attempting to
litter box train him. I have read books that say that a dog will not
defecate in his crate but that is the not happening with my puppy. I can
wait for hours and he will not defecate in the box but as soon as I place
him in his crate he defecates and urinates.

My hunch is that he's been allowed, maybe even encouraged, to "go"
inside his crate until you brought him home.

That is, he's been classically conditioned to "go" in his crate.

If that's true, the worst thing that you can do right now is to use a
crate.

Questions:

Why do you want to use a litterbox?
Where did you get him?
How was he housed there?

I have tried blotting his urine
and placing it in the box as well as put a small piece of feces in the
box.and last night he did urinate once , but this morning and afternoon he
is doing in the crate.
[...]

How many hours a day (and night) are you keeping him in his crate?

--
Handsome Jack Morrison

So much for the "reality based community."
Rednecks, White Power, and Blue States:
http://andune.blogspot.com/2006/08/r...ue-states.html
Five Minutes to Midnight:
http://corner.nationalreview.com/pos...Y0M2ZiMGFkNGI=
Let the Jews Die:
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles...e.asp?ID=23822
Fauxtography:
http://hotair.com/archives/2006/08/10/fauxtography/
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/webl...elmet_Guy&only
http://www.aish.com/movies/PhotoFraud.asp
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/webl...Pallywood&only
Well, *this* certainly isn't good news:
http://www.drudgereport.com/flash4.htm
The Brink of Madness. A familiar place.
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q...Q4OWMzNDhmMzk=
Obsession: Radical Islam’s War with the West (a must-see movie!):
http://www.obsessionthemovie.com/
If you don't want your own DVD, you can view the movie he
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...78181614&hl=en
It's over an hour long, so make some popcorn, crack open a beer, and take a good, hard look at what's coming.
Or...you can keep your head stuck in the sand.

I live in massachusetts that can have extremely cold weather and live in an
apartment plus my pup isn't going to get very big. so litterbox is my only
option if I wish to keep him. I got him from Soo big dog in Joplin missouri.
I was told he was in cage with a wire mesh with no housebreaking at all. If
I don't crate him how do you suggest that I train him. I can't let him have
free access to whole house. He gets crated for about 3 to 4 hours.All the
booksI read state he should go right when he wakes which he doesn't . Thanks
for any help.


"Handsome Jack Morrison" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 17:24:15 GMT, "janet hodson"
wrote:

I just got my puppy which is a Yorktese (mixture of Maltese and Yorkshire
terrier) on Thursday August 10th. He is 14 weeks old. I am attempting to
litter box train him. I have read books that say that a dog will not
defecate in his crate but that is the not happening with my puppy. I can
wait for hours and he will not defecate in the box but as soon as I place
him in his crate he defecates and urinates.

My hunch is that he's been allowed, maybe even encouraged, to "go"
inside his crate until you brought him home.

That is, he's been classically conditioned to "go" in his crate.

If that's true, the worst thing that you can do right now is to use a
crate.

Questions:

Why do you want to use a litterbox?
Where did you get him?
How was he housed there?

I have tried blotting his urine
and placing it in the box as well as put a small piece of feces in the
box.and last night he did urinate once , but this morning and afternoon he
is doing in the crate.
[...]

How many hours a day (and night) are you keeping him in his crate?

--
Handsome Jack Morrison

So much for the "reality based community."
Rednecks, White Power, and Blue States:
http://andune.blogspot.com/2006/08/r...ue-states.html
Five Minutes to Midnight:
http://corner.nationalreview.com/pos...Y0M2ZiMGFkNGI=
Let the Jews Die:
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles...e.asp?ID=23822
Fauxtography:
http://hotair.com/archives/2006/08/10/fauxtography/
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/webl...elmet_Guy&only
http://www.aish.com/movies/PhotoFraud.asp
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/webl...Pallywood&only
Well, *this* certainly isn't good news:
http://www.drudgereport.com/flash4.htm
The Brink of Madness. A familiar place.
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q...Q4OWMzNDhmMzk=
Obsession: Radical Islam's War with the West (a must-see movie!):
http://www.obsessionthemovie.com/
If you don't want your own DVD, you can view the movie he
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...78181614&hl=en
It's over an hour long, so make some popcorn, crack open a beer, and take
a good, hard look at what's coming.
Or...you can keep your head stuck in the sand.

On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 19:26:53 GMT, "janet hodson"
wrote:

I live in massachusetts that can have extremely cold weather and live in an
apartment plus my pup isn't going to get very big. so litterbox is my only
option if I wish to keep him. I got him from Soo big dog in Joplin missouri.
I was told he was in cage with a wire mesh with no housebreaking at all.

Sounds like a puppy mill. Do you know what a puppy mill is?

And the fact that he's been used to "going" in his cage for 14 weeks
now, it's going to make it much harder for you to housebreak him.

Small dogs like Yorkies are usually much harder to housebreak than
most dogs are, even under ideal conditions.

You have your work cut out for you.

If I don't crate him how do you suggest that I train him. I can't let him have
free access to whole house.

You can, if you keep a close eye on him.

Many people use a "tether" for this. They keep the dog on a leash (or
a piece of rope), and then affix the leash to their waist. It helps
them keep an eye on their dog. Where they go, the dog goes. Where
the dog goes, they go.

And at night, they tether the dog to, say, the floor, via a swivel
hook, etc. A very short tether. It provides much the same effect
that a crate would under normal circumstances, i.e., playing on a
dog's desire not to "go" where he sleeps, etc.

He gets crated for about 3 to 4 hours.

When? Why?

All the books I read state he should go right when he wakes which he doesn't.

When pups "go" is closely related to when pups eat. Presumably you're
feeding your pup 3-4 times a day, right? Well, if you carefully time
those feedings ("input"), you can pretty well predict the pup's
"output." But pups don't read the same books that we read , and they
usually just "go" whenever the urge arises.

And you always want to be there when that urge arises, so that you can
correct/prevent him from "going" in the wrong spot, and then pick him
up and take him to the right spot to "go."

As far as living in the People's Republic of Massachusetts goes, and
in an apartment, many small dog owners manage just fine. They dress
their dogs in sweaters, etc. to keep them warm, etc. and the dogs do
just fine. Having your dog go outside (preferably on grass, dirt,
etc.) requires you to always pay attention to your dog, set
time-tables for "going" out, etc. But you should be taking your dog
for frequent walks anyway, so why not time them for when the dog is
due to "go"? Think of it as a two-fer.

If you didn't want to have to worry about any of this, e.g., taking a
dog outside for frequent walks, to "go," etc., maybe you would have
been better served by getting a cat instead of a dog?

"Handsome Jack Morrison" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 17:24:15 GMT, "janet hodson"
wrote:

I just got my puppy which is a Yorktese (mixture of Maltese and Yorkshire
terrier) on Thursday August 10th. He is 14 weeks old. I am attempting to
litter box train him. I have read books that say that a dog will not
defecate in his crate but that is the not happening with my puppy. I can
wait for hours and he will not defecate in the box but as soon as I place
him in his crate he defecates and urinates.

My hunch is that he's been allowed, maybe even encouraged, to "go"
inside his crate until you brought him home.

That is, he's been classically conditioned to "go" in his crate.

If that's true, the worst thing that you can do right now is to use a
crate.

Questions:

Why do you want to use a litterbox?
Where did you get him?
How was he housed there?

I have tried blotting his urine
and placing it in the box as well as put a small piece of feces in the
box.and last night he did urinate once , but this morning and afternoon he
is doing in the crate.
[...]

How many hours a day (and night) are you keeping him in his crate?
[...]

--
Handsome Jack Morrison

So much for the "reality based community."
Rednecks, White Power, and Blue States:
http://andune.blogspot.com/2006/08/r...ue-states.html
Five Minutes to Midnight:
http://corner.nationalreview.com/pos...Y0M2ZiMGFkNGI=
Let the Jews Die:
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles...e.asp?ID=23822
Fauxtography:
http://hotair.com/archives/2006/08/10/fauxtography/
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/webl...elmet_Guy&only
http://www.aish.com/movies/PhotoFraud.asp
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/webl...Pallywood&only
Well, *this* certainly isn't good news:
http://www.drudgereport.com/flash4.htm
The Brink of Madness. A familiar place.
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q...Q4OWMzNDhmMzk=
Obsession: Radical Islam’s War with the West (a must-see movie!):
http://www.obsessionthemovie.com/
If you don't want your own DVD, you can view the movie he
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...78181614&hl=en
It's over an hour long, so make some popcorn, crack open a beer, and take a good, hard look at what's coming.
Or...you can keep your head stuck in the sand.

On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 19:26:53 GMT, "janet hodson"
wrote:

I got him from Soo big dog in Joplin missouri.
I was told he was in cage with a wire mesh with no housebreaking at all.

Which means that they left him in his cage to poop and pee instead of
taking him out. In that time, these breeders managed to get rid of
his natural tendency to not soil his den, which is the natural
tendency dogs have that makes crate training work. Instead, he has
been taught that cages/crates are where you pee and poop. This is one
of many reasons not to buy from puppymills.

Now that you can't crate train, you are going to have to have the pup
with you all the time until he has to poop or pee, then take him to
his potty place and then go crazy with praise and treats when he does
go in the place you want him to go. You can keep him with you by
having him tethered to you with a leash or by carrying him around.
Keep an eagle eye out for any signs that he is looking for a spot or
heading for his crate (since crate means bathroom to him) and don't
let him go anywhere but where you want him to go. Make sure you have
his favorite treats available and he only gets them when he pees or
poops where you want him to.

--
Paula
"Anyway, other people are weird, but sometimes they have candy,
so it's best to try to get along with them." Joe Bay

"janet hodson" wrote in message
news:12LDg.11792$yE1.8477@trndny02...
I live in massachusetts that can have extremely cold weather and live in an
apartment plus my pup isn't going to get very big. so litterbox is my only
option if I wish to keep him. I got him from Soo big dog in Joplin
missouri. I was told he was in cage with a wire mesh with no housebreaking
at all. If I don't crate him how do you suggest that I train him. I can't
let him have free access to whole house. He gets crated for about 3 to 4
hours.All the booksI read state he should go right when he wakes which he
doesn't . Thanks for any help.

You actually *can* crate him, but only for very very short periods at this
point, and only when you are *certain* that he doesn't have to potty. Its
not the worst idea to retrain him to the crate, but due to his history,
you'll have to go slowly and not expect too much from him. 3 to 4 hours is
way too long for you to expect to crate a puppy who wasn't housed in one
anyway, let alone a pup that was taught he *had* to potty in one. So you
were overusing it to begin with. For when you can't keep an eye on him, I'd
try gating him in a puppy proof room (a small one, like a bathroom) with
access to his litter box on one side, and his bedding on the other. I'd have
his crate in there as well, but you may have to actually keep the door
closed with him *outside* of it for a few days (I usually suggest that
people leave the crate door open so they have access, but I suspect this pup
would choose to use it as a toilet, so I'd like it around, but
*clean*....even if its because he can't get in there yet). If he's not used
to the texture of the litter (which I find *very* likely), this may also be
having a huge impact. So, it may help if you use wee wee pads in the litter
box for a while.

If you *know* he has to potty, bring him to the litter box and stand there
with him for a few minutes (if he's trying to leave the area, put the gate
up and gate the two of you in there for those few minutes). By "a few
minutes" I mean 3-4, NOT 20. If he doesn't go (which he likely won't the
first few times), DO NOT put him back in his crate. The way he was raised
(in puppy mill fashion) has already confused him enough. Putting him back in
the crate at that point will only add to his confusion. He's small, so you
can just pick him up and carry him around for 10-15 minutes. Don't put him
down. Seriously. Carrying him will help keep him from "going". After 10-15
minutes has passed, go back to the litter box and try again.....for 3-4
minutes. If he doesn't go, do it again. Do this as many times as it takes
for him to finally "go" where you've decided he should. Keep in mind, none
of this makes sense to him, and whatever instincts he had about keeping his
area clean was overridden by being raised in a puppy mill style. That makes
it harder for him to understand what you're trying to convey to him. The
main thing to focus on is its your primary job to *prevent* him from making
a mistake. Sometimes we get to use the crate to help us prevent those
mistakes, and sometimes we don't....at least not right away. He should never
*ever* enter that crate if you think he might have to go to the bathroom in
it. That's where he *already* thinks he's supposed to "go". In his mind,
he's being a really good boy for holding it when you've put him in that
"wrong" place, and waiting until you bring him back to his "potty place".
That he's got this backwards is the fault of his breeder, not the puppy. So
take it slow with him, and make sure you've got the time to carry him around
a lot until he gets it.

Once you've got him to go potty in the litter box regularly (make sure you
give him the world's most amazing treat when he finally does it, IMMEDIATELY
after the does it. Have it with you so you can give it to him as soon as
he's finished. Chicken or Turkey work wonders for this :-), you can start to
reintroduce the crate as a place to stay for longer periods. But now, you
can really only use it when you know he absolutely doesn't have to potty at
all.

Tara

janet hodson wrote:

I live in massachusetts that can have extremely cold weather and live in an
apartment plus my pup isn't going to get very big. so litterbox is my only
option if I wish to keep him.

How about outdoor-training him for now, and then moving
on to the litterbox? It sounds as though he is not yet getting
the idea of what the litterbox is for. You might be able to take
advantage of dogs' natural preference for certain surfaces.
Mowed grass seems to be popular, while some of the dogs I
train like to go on the pine bark mulch that surrounds our
landscaping.

If you can get him "going" on cue, somewhere other than his
crate, IMO you are making progress. Then you can start
associating the puppy pee pads, torn paper or whatever with
the place you successfully get him to "go," and use that
association to teach him to use the litter box.

You have some time before it gets cold, even if you're in
the Berkshires where I lived once upon a time.

Amy Dahl

On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 17:24:15 GMT, "janet hodson"
, clicked their heels and said:

I just got my puppy which is a Yorktese (mixture of Maltese and Yorkshire
terrier) on Thursday August 10th.

Sigh....... why oh why.........

He is 14 weeks old. I am attempting to
litter box train him. I have read books that say that a dog will not
defecate in his crate but that is the not happening with my puppy.

You have a few things working against you - a toy mix and probably the
conditions he was raised in up until the time you got him.

I can
wait for hours and he will not defecate in the box but as soon as I place
him in his crate he defecates and urinates. I have tried blotting his urine
and placing it in the box as well as put a small piece of feces in the
box.and last night he did urinate once , but this morning and afternoon he
is doing in the crate. I am using puppy pads and shredded paper in the
box. Please can anyone offer any suggestions.

The dog litter is supposed to work better. You have a lot of work
ahead of you. Get a very, very small crate. Do not put bedding in
it. Use it for overnight and if you are gone ONLY. Hope you aren't
gone long, as a tiny mixed breed puppy needs frequent meals and
outings. You'll also need to get up at least once, possibly twice,
during the night.

Set a schedule. Measured, scheduled meals. Close supervision. Taking
to his litter box after he wakes, after he eats, every hour when
awake. Do not give free access to the litter box at this time, but
use it as you would use outdoors.

If he doesn't eliminate as needed, keep him leashed to you and try
again in 5-10 minutes. Lather, rinse, repeat.


--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 19:26:53 GMT, "janet hodson"
, clicked their heels and said:
I got him from Soo big dog in Joplin missouri.
I was told he was in cage with a wire mesh with no housebreaking at all.

Your problem in a nutshell. He was conditioned to eliminate in his
cage. Not surprising Ditch the crate, use an x-pen with the box in
it and keep to a schedule. And use a leash, gates, doors,
supervision.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

Janet,
In the first message you tell me to ditch the crate and get an x pen. Should
I have both? He ate over 6 hours ago with 2 meals and he has not
defecated.Sowhat is your recommendationas far as litter training should i
use wee pads in it or the purina litter pellets? he wweighs about 5 pounds
and i am feeding hil royal canin puppy food.The breeder fed him this food
and i have always fed my cat the same brand. Any info I woud appreciate and
he does have a very small crate. Have you ever heard of Soo Big dogs?
"Janet B" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 17:24:15 GMT, "janet hodson"
, clicked their heels and said:

I just got my puppy which is a Yorktese (mixture of Maltese and Yorkshire
terrier) on Thursday August 10th.

Sigh....... why oh why.........

He is 14 weeks old. I am attempting to
litter box train him. I have read books that say that a dog will not
defecate in his crate but that is the not happening with my puppy.

You have a few things working against you - a toy mix and probably the
conditions he was raised in up until the time you got him.

I can
wait for hours and he will not defecate in the box but as soon as I place
him in his crate he defecates and urinates. I have tried blotting his
urine
and placing it in the box as well as put a small piece of feces in the
box.and last night he did urinate once , but this morning and afternoon he
is doing in the crate. I am using puppy pads and shredded paper in the
box. Please can anyone offer any suggestions.

The dog litter is supposed to work better. You have a lot of work
ahead of you. Get a very, very small crate. Do not put bedding in
it. Use it for overnight and if you are gone ONLY. Hope you aren't
gone long, as a tiny mixed breed puppy needs frequent meals and
outings. You'll also need to get up at least once, possibly twice,
during the night.

Set a schedule. Measured, scheduled meals. Close supervision. Taking
to his litter box after he wakes, after he eats, every hour when
awake. Do not give free access to the litter box at this time, but
use it as you would use outdoors.

If he doesn't eliminate as needed, keep him leashed to you and try
again in 5-10 minutes. Lather, rinse, repeat.


--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com