At the beginning of August I took in a rescue dog. Mixed breed, probably a
year old, probably 70 lb at proper weight, unfixed male. He was a stray that
was hanging around a friend's farm. He wasn't hostile, and was friendly with
my friend's dog, but would not come to any human. It took the animal control
people a week to get him to enter a trap.

I got him pretty well socialized in a couple of weeks. He's still nervous
but at least has come to trust me. In fact he's become very affectionate,
obviously really appreciating having a home. He eats well, and has passed
all the vets' tests and is healthy. He's slowly gaining weight and is
playful with my dog. He also is very eager to follow my instructions.

The problem is housetraining. He just can't catch on. Some days he's OK, but
on others he loses it, both pees and poos, sometimes several times in a day.

I scold him every time, particularly when I catch him in the act. He knows
it's wrong, and has guilty body language after. He's outside as often as in,
but just doesn't use the opportunity.

I've tried all the various tricks, including blocking off rooms. Most of
the instructions you find on the Internet or from a pamphlet at the vet's
apply to puppies. I asked my vet about crate training but he wasn't
enthusiastic.

I'd hate to give him up, because with his behaviour he probably would not
find a home, but I'm not willing to put up with this, er, crap indefinitely.

My house is not laid out in a way that I can conveniently confine him
without restricting general use unsatisfactorily. Any suggestions?

On Fri, 15 Sep 2006 13:04:53 -0400, "Dave Gower"
wrote:

At the beginning of August I took in a rescue dog. Mixed breed, probably a
year old, probably 70 lb at proper weight, unfixed male. He was a stray that
was hanging around a friend's farm. He wasn't hostile, and was friendly with
my friend's dog, but would not come to any human. It took the animal control
people a week to get him to enter a trap.

I got him pretty well socialized in a couple of weeks. He's still nervous
but at least has come to trust me. In fact he's become very affectionate,
obviously really appreciating having a home. He eats well, and has passed
all the vets' tests and is healthy. He's slowly gaining weight and is
playful with my dog. He also is very eager to follow my instructions.

The problem is housetraining. He just can't catch on. Some days he's OK, but
on others he loses it, both pees and poos, sometimes several times in a day.

I scold him every time, particularly when I catch him in the act. He knows
it's wrong, and has guilty body language after. He's outside as often as in,
but just doesn't use the opportunity.

Look, housetraining is an exercise in *classical* conditioning (think
Pavlov's dog here). Once a dog becomes conditioned to "going" both
outside and inside (like this dog probably is), you really only have
one choice.

You simply cannot allow him to "go" inside; you must see to it that he
only "goes" outside. Over time, he will become less and less
conditioned to "going" inside, and more and more conditioned to going
"outside" - but it will time and effort on your part.

Crating can help you prevent the dog from "going" inside (e.g., at
night, or when you're not otherwise able to keep an eye on him, etc.),
by taking advantage of a dog's natural instincts not to "go" where he
sleeps, etc. But the crate must be the right size, and you can only
keep him in the crate for short periods of time, until he's fully
housetrained). Tethering the dog to your waist (with a short rope,
cord, leash, etc.), so that he can never gets out of your sight, can
accomplish the same thing.

As soon as the dog even looks like he's thinking about "going" inside,
you scoop him up and take him outside to "go." And then praise him
when he "goes."

It all boils down to this:

You just can't let him "go" inside. He can only "go" outside.

Period.

And whatever it takes to accomplish that is what you need to be
focusing on.

Allowing just one mistake can set you back to Square One.

Note: You should also get a good enzyme cleaner and clean up all the
spots where he has previously "gone" inside.

I've tried all the various tricks, including blocking off rooms. Most of
the instructions you find on the Internet or from a pamphlet at the vet's
apply to puppies.

The same things apply to *your* dog, too!

Think of him as a puppy, as far as his housetraining goes.

I asked my vet about crate training but he wasn't
enthusiastic.

What did your vet tell you to do?

I'd hate to give him up, because with his behaviour he probably would not
find a home, but I'm not willing to put up with this, er, crap indefinitely.

And you don't have to. Any dog can be housetrained, provided you're
willing to invest the time and effort into getting it done.

There's no magic potion.

My house is not laid out in a way that I can conveniently confine him
without restricting general use unsatisfactorily. Any suggestions?

Which is why crate-training seems made to order for you.

Good luck to you!

And thanks for rescuing the dog!

--
Handsome Jack Morrison

The Iraqi Truth Project:
http://www.iraqitruthproject.com/
Payback's gonna be a real bitch.
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/edi...n_bush_hatred/
Deranged Democrat Watch
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/webl...Watch#comments
Joe Wilson: The End of an Error
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=16896
Cindy Sheehan. spit
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles...e.asp?ID=19117
http://www.slate.com/id/2124788/
"Reality Based" Community Watch:
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/webl...Watch#comments
The "Azzam" Threat: A prelude to Future Jihad in America:
http://counterterrorismblog.org/2006...prelude_to.php
The Plamegate Hall of Shame:
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Conten...2/648ygtoe.asp
The Waiting Game:
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q...ZiNzM1NTI4NjY=
Border War. Another must-see movie.
http://hotair.com/archives/2006/08/31/border-war/
Playing with fire, the commie pinko liberal way:
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/a...ama/article.do

"Dave Gower" wrote in message
...
At the beginning of August I took in a rescue dog. Mixed breed, probably a
year old, probably 70 lb at proper weight, unfixed male. He was a stray
that was hanging around a friend's farm. He wasn't hostile, and was
friendly with my friend's dog, but would not come to any human. It took
the animal control people a week to get him to enter a trap.

I got him pretty well socialized in a couple of weeks. He's still nervous
but at least has come to trust me. In fact he's become very affectionate,
obviously really appreciating having a home. He eats well, and has passed
all the vets' tests and is healthy. He's slowly gaining weight and is
playful with my dog. He also is very eager to follow my instructions.

The problem is housetraining. He just can't catch on. Some days he's OK,
but on others he loses it, both pees and poos, sometimes several times in
a day.

I scold him every time, particularly when I catch him in the act. He knows
it's wrong, and has guilty body language after. He's outside as often as
in, but just doesn't use the opportunity.

I've tried all the various tricks, including blocking off rooms. Most of
the instructions you find on the Internet or from a pamphlet at the vet's
apply to puppies. I asked my vet about crate training but he wasn't
enthusiastic.

I'd hate to give him up, because with his behaviour he probably would not
find a home, but I'm not willing to put up with this, er, crap
indefinitely.

My house is not laid out in a way that I can conveniently confine him
without restricting general use unsatisfactorily. Any suggestions?

I'm surprised to hear that your vet doesn't endorse crate training, because
all the ones I've known do. It helps because the dog is confined when you
can't watch him, and most dogs don't want to eliminate where they're laying
down, confined. They will tend to hold it, at least for a while. So he's
crated for a few hours, you take him out on the leash (so he's near you),
he'll potty pretty soon probably, he gets praised. Works like a charm, easy
on everybody and saves cleaning the carpets.

Anyway, instead of putting him in a crate, perhaps you could try leashing
him to you so that he isn't out of your sight, and you can keep an eye on
him.

When he acts like he might be thinking about having to eliminate - or every
3-4 hours at his age, and after eating - take him outside on the leash UNTIL
HE DOES. And then, he's a GOOD DOG. Don't forget to praise him when he
deposits that pee or poop where you want it - outdoors. "Good dog! You had
to GO OUT!"

I don't know if there's much use in punishing him for going inside, even if
you catch him in the act. I've come to think of housetraining as "forming a
habit," if that makes sense. Take away the opportunity to make mistakes,
praise him when he gets it right, and it should come to him pretty quickly.

You might think about having him neutered so that he doesn't want to wander
when he smells a female dog in heat, up to a mile or so away, which might be
why he wandered off from his other home. Dogs can flat-out get lost if
they're too far from home (not to mention hit by cars or shot by farmers).
It will also help cut down on his "sprinkling" in the house to mark his
territory.

Your job and his learning this new habit are both made easier by the fact
that he's eager to please you. Thanks for rescuing him!

flick 100785

Thanks, Jack and Flick. I'll watch him more closely. He poos in the house
far more often than pees, because he marks outside a lot. I have an
invisible fence system which he's accepted easily, so he can go out on his
own. I praise him every time I see him going outside, but normally he does
his stuff out of my sight (I have 2 acres and a lot of trees).

My vet didn't argue against crate training, just wasn't encouraging. But I
may need to set something up. He's used to sleeping at the foot of my bed.

I will certainly get him fixed but the vet and I agree he's still too
nervous to want to leave him there just yet. He just freezes in fear when
he's in there.

One thing my vet did not tell me is that puppy traing principles apply to an
older dog, and I appreciate that advice.

Cheers.

"Dave Gower" wrote in message
...
Thanks, Jack and Flick. I'll watch him more closely. He poos in the house
far more often than pees, because he marks outside a lot. I have an
invisible fence system which he's accepted easily, so he can go out on his
own. I praise him every time I see him going outside, but normally he does
his stuff out of my sight (I have 2 acres and a lot of trees).

If it's possible for you, take him out on the leash. You could walk him to
one of his spots. Then you're right there with him and can praise him.
Then you can unleash him and let him run around.

My vet didn't argue against crate training, just wasn't encouraging. But I
may need to set something up. He's used to sleeping at the foot of my bed.

If he doesn't have accidents at night, you may not need to crate him at
night. You could put the crate near your bed, too.

I will certainly get him fixed but the vet and I agree he's still too
nervous to want to leave him there just yet. He just freezes in fear when
he's in there.

One thing my vet did not tell me is that puppy traing principles apply to
an older dog, and I appreciate that advice.

They sorta do in that a young puppy isn't capable of "holding it" as long as
an older dog. But you're still trying to form the same habit.

Good luck, and bless you again for rescuing this dog!

flick 100785

Cheers.

On Sat, 16 Sep 2006 12:41:13 -0400, "Dave Gower"
wrote:

Thanks, Jack and Flick.

You're welcome, Dave. Thanks for the feedback!

I'll watch him more closely.

That's the key.

You just can't let him out of your sight right now.

He poos in the house
far more often than pees, because he marks outside a lot.

You just can't let that happen.

I have an
invisible fence system which he's accepted easily, so he can go out on his
own. I praise him every time I see him going outside,

If I were you, I wouldn't use the doggy-door right now, because of two
things.

First, you should be taking him outside yourself, and to a particular
spot, and you should be using a cue, e.g., "Hurry up," which will help
him realize that it's time to "go." Plus you'll always be there to
praise him, which should expedite progress.

Second, relying on the doggy door will make it that much harder for
you to keep a close eye on him. You'll start slipping, and then so
will your dog.

but normally he does
his stuff out of my sight (I have 2 acres and a lot of trees).

Don't worry about what he "does" outside.

My vet didn't argue against crate training, just wasn't encouraging. But I
may need to set something up. He's used to sleeping at the foot of my bed.

He can do that in a crate, too.

I will certainly get him fixed but the vet and I agree he's still too
nervous to want to leave him there just yet. He just freezes in fear when
he's in there.

If you get him used to the crate at home, he'll be that much better
behaved in one at the vet's.

You also need to get started on OBEDIENCE TRAINING, too.

One thing my vet did not tell me is that puppy traing principles apply to an
older dog, and I appreciate that advice.

You bet.

When it comes to housebreaking, it's the same principle - classical
conditioning.

Again, good luck to you!

--
Handsome Jack Morrison

A very, very brave woman dies - Oriana Fallaci. R.I.P.
(read her books, while you still can)
http://michellemalkin.com/archives/005934.htm
http://pajamasmedia.com/2006/09/in_memoriam.php
The Iraqi Truth Project:
http://www.iraqitruthproject.com/
Payback's gonna be a real bitch.
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/edi...n_bush_hatred/
Deranged Democrat Watch
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/webl...Watch#comments
"Reality Based" Community Watch:
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/webl...Watch#comments
The "Azzam" Threat: A prelude to Future Jihad in America:
http://counterterrorismblog.org/2006...prelude_to.php
The Waiting Game:
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q...ZiNzM1NTI4NjY=
Border War. Another must-see movie.
http://hotair.com/archives/2006/08/31/border-war/
Playing with fire, the commie pinko liberal way:
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/a...ama/article.do

wrote:
HOWEDY tommy sorenson aka handsome jack morrison aka DOGMAN,

"Handsome Jack Morrison" wrote in
message ...
On Fri, 15 Sep 2006 13:04:53 -0400, "Dave Gower"
wrote:

At the beginning of August I took in a rescue dog.

HOWE COME you don't say 'HOWEDY, an thank you
for RESCUIN' a doggy, eh tommy? Didn't your momma
an daddy teach you to say HOWEDY or did they raise
you to be a selfish inconsiderate ignorameHOWES
LHOWET like themselves, tommy?

Could it be because you are a child abusing maniac? Didn't your momma
and daddy teach you the very basics of spelling, AssHowe?



Mixed breed, probably a year old, probably
70 lb at proper weight, unfixed male.

A dog like THAT gotta be NEUTERED, eh tommy?

Nothing wrong with neutering, AssHowe. In fact, YOU should be neutered
for fondling children. Well, you should be put in prison, actually.


snip

He also is very eager to follow my instructions.

Of curse. Dogs ABHOWER a "LEADERSHIP VACUUM", eh tommy?

Speak English, you imbecile.



The problem is housetraining. He just can't catch on.

HOWEsbreakin is INSTINCTIVE at four weeks of age.

No it isn't - YOU just don't know how to deal with the issue, AssHowe.


AIN'T IT, tommy {): ~ )

THAT'S HOWE COME dogs are SO EZ to HOWEsbreak.

What the **** is HOWEsbreak? Can't you spell a god damn thing?


AIN'T IT, tommy {) : ~ )

Some days he's OK, but on others he loses it, both
pees and poos, sometimes several times in a day.

There's ONLY TWO *(2) possible REASONS HOWE COME
a dog would have HOWEsbreakin problems: 1. They're SICK
or 2. they're UNHAPPY...

Oh my GOD - you are so stupid it's just plain SILLY!!!


AIN'T IT, tommy {): ~ )

I scold him every time,

Of curse.

INCONSISTENCY is the BANE of the SCIENTIFIC METHOD.

You HAVE NO SCIENTIFIC METHOD, YOU RETARD!!! You have to be a master
liar to make all these people believe you know ANYTHING about dog
training!

wrote:

snip
wrote:
HOWEDY tommy sorenson aka handsome jack morrison aka DOGMAN,

"Handsome Jack Morrison" wrote in
message ...
On Fri, 15 Sep 2006 13:04:53 -0400, "Dave Gower"
wrote:

At the beginning of August I took in a rescue dog.

HOWE COME you don't say 'HOWEDY, an thank you
for RESCUIN' a doggy, eh tommy? Didn't your momma
an daddy teach you to say HOWEDY or did they raise
you to be a selfish inconsiderate ignorameHOWES
LHOWET like themselves, tommy?

Could it be because you are a child abusing maniac? Didn't your momma
and daddy teach you the very basics of spelling, AssHowe?



Mixed breed, probably a year old, probably
70 lb at proper weight, unfixed male.

A dog like THAT gotta be NEUTERED, eh tommy?

Nothing wrong with neutering, AssHowe. In fact, YOU should be neutered
for fondling children. Well, you should be put in prison, actually.


snip

He also is very eager to follow my instructions.

Of curse. Dogs ABHOWER a "LEADERSHIP VACUUM", eh tommy?

Speak English, you imbecile.



The problem is housetraining. He just can't catch on.

HOWEsbreakin is INSTINCTIVE at four weeks of age.

No it isn't - YOU just don't know how to deal with the issue, AssHowe.


AIN'T IT, tommy {): ~ )

THAT'S HOWE COME dogs are SO EZ to HOWEsbreak.

What the **** is HOWEsbreak? Can't you spell a god damn thing?


AIN'T IT, tommy {) : ~ )

Some days he's OK, but on others he loses it, both
pees and poos, sometimes several times in a day.

There's ONLY TWO *(2) possible REASONS HOWE COME
a dog would have HOWEsbreakin problems: 1. They're SICK
or 2. they're UNHAPPY...

Oh my GOD - you are so stupid it's just plain SILLY!!!


AIN'T IT, tommy {): ~ )

I scold him every time,

Of curse.

INCONSISTENCY is the BANE of the SCIENTIFIC METHOD.

snip

You HAVE NO SCIENTIFIC METHOD, YOU RETARD!!!

No Method and No Sanity !

You have to be a master
liar

THAT, HE IS GOOD AT !

to make all these people believe you know ANYTHING about dog
training!

He knows NOTHING about Dog Training.
He is here because he is a SADIST.
SADISTS get sexual pleasure from hurting and bullying others.
Being a Sadist is his pastime
When he is not busy Molesting Children.
Molesting is another word for RAPE.

Show Dog Bark

"Dave Gower" wrote in message
...
Thanks, Jack and Flick. I'll watch him more closely. He poos in the house
far more often than pees, because he marks outside a lot. I have an
invisible fence system which he's accepted easily, so he can go out on
his own. I praise him every time I see him going outside, but normally he
does his stuff out of my sight (I have 2 acres and a lot of trees).

My vet didn't argue against crate training, just wasn't encouraging. But
I may need to set something up. He's used to sleeping at the foot of my
bed.

I will certainly get him fixed but the vet and I agree he's still too
nervous to want to leave him there just yet. He just freezes in fear when
he's in there.

One thing my vet did not tell me is that puppy traing principles apply to
an older dog, and I appreciate that advice.

Cheers.

I will just say a few words about what has worked with my rescue dog
Muttley, who was about 1.5 years old when I got him right after his
castration in February. He did not like being confined in a 6 x 6 x 4
outdoor kennel, and did not like to go into the dog house I had for him. At
first, I kept him tethered outside most of the time, and also kept him
tethered to furniture or confined in a room inside the house. When I
finally gave him some freedom to roam, he peed (and sometimes pooped) in
various places. I think he was excited about the cat. When I discovered his
"accidents", I was naturally upset, and I showed him what he had done, with
a firm "no", and then I would tie him up outside for a while. These
episodes became less frequent, and also improved when I took him for longer
walks and praised him when he did his business in my presence. Finally,
only in the last couple of months, I have been able to leave him with free
roam of the house, with access to water and dry food, for as long as 8 to
10 hours, with no sign of any "accidents", or even any chewed computer
cables (which he seemed to enjoy for awhile).

I don't claim to know much about dog training and behavior, and I'm still
having other problems, but this seems to have been a major bit of progress
for a dog who was used to fending for himself running loose in the city. I
have given him a lot of love and physical attention, allowing him to sleep
on the bed or wherever he wants, and he seems usually very relaxed and
contented when he is with me in the house or outside, except when there are
distractions like the cat or other animals. Of course, there must be
variations in temperamant with different breeds, early experiences, and
just different personalities. My advice would be to give the dog as much
love as possible, a great deal of patience, and be sensitive to the dog and
try to communicate. I may have done some things wrong, and maybe I've been
lucky, but I am pleased with the results and I have a great deal of
confidence in Muttley's good behavior in the house. He was also well
behaved when he stayed with my friend Doyle, and he was amazed at how well
he was able to move around inside without knocking things over.

Good luck,

Paul