http://www.altoonamirror.com/news/ar...articleID=4834

Veterinarian says Jake was abused
A veterinarian didn't hesitate when asked a question about a dog he
treated Monday.

Spot wrote:
http://www.altoonamirror.com/news/ar...articleID=4834

Veterinarian says Jake was abused
A veterinarian didn't hesitate when asked a question about a dog he
treated Monday.

Which is fine, go after the owners of the dog. The point still remains
that Tammy Grimes is a thief and deserves the full punishment
permissable by law. She is not an authority and has no right to
tresspass on someone else's property, so she shouldn't have been there
to see the dog in the first place, let alone to steal the dog. She
tresspassed, she stole property, she failed to comply with a lawful
request of an authority... how many more crimes does she have to commit
before you see that the issue is not with the dog owners.

Nick

wrote in message
oups.com...

Spot wrote:
http://www.altoonamirror.com/news/ar...articleID=4834

Veterinarian says Jake was abused
A veterinarian didn't hesitate when asked a question about a dog he
treated Monday.

Which is fine, go after the owners of the dog. The point still remains
that Tammy Grimes is a thief and deserves the full punishment
permissable by law. She is not an authority and has no right to
tresspass on someone else's property, so she shouldn't have been there
to see the dog in the first place, let alone to steal the dog. She
tresspassed, she stole property, she failed to comply with a lawful
request of an authority... how many more crimes does she have to commit
before you see that the issue is not with the dog owners.

Actually, the vet said "Yes" when asked if the dog was abused OR neglected.
Its pretty clear that the dog was neglected. That was pretty obvious, in
fact.

But that doesn't change the fact that Grimes completely squandered an
important teaching opportunity by fighting her own (understandable)
instincts and treating the owners with dignity and respect......so that she
could help the dog by helping them.

She blew it in more ways than just stealing. These people will be forever
closed off to the opinions of shelters and animal welfare educators. Grimes
screwed over the dog they *still* have, as well as any other dogs they
acquire in the future.

Tara

Can someone please tell me why the police have not forced Tammy to
return the dog? I keep reading how they can't do anything because they
don't know where the dog is.

Why hasn't she been put in jail until she reveals the location of Jake?

"TaraG" wrote in message
news:1bUPg.2328$x11.612@trndny02...

Actually, the vet said "Yes" when asked if the dog was abused OR
neglected. Its pretty clear that the dog was neglected. That was pretty
obvious, in fact.

But that doesn't change the fact that Grimes completely squandered an
important teaching opportunity by fighting her own (understandable)
instincts and treating the owners with dignity and respect......so that
she could help the dog by helping them.

She blew it in more ways than just stealing. These people will be forever
closed off to the opinions of shelters and animal welfare educators.
Grimes screwed over the dog they *still* have, as well as any other dogs
they acquire in the future.

Good points.

She took the dog to the vet, which it needed. But her not being a law
officer, and the cops haven't seen the dog yet, and they didn't see it
before - it may be difficult now to prove a neglect/abuse case. Regardless
what the vet says about the condition of the dog, she's muddied up the
waters.

Some humane org people are licensed/certified animal abuse investigators, or
licensed private investigators. They know the law, and know how to work
*with* law enforcement and avoid these problems. In effect, they can be
credentialed witnesses, and the best of them do a lot of good.

flick 100785

wrote:
Can someone please tell me why the police have not forced Tammy to
return the dog? I keep reading how they can't do anything because they
don't know where the dog is.

Why hasn't she been put in jail until she reveals the location of Jake?

She refuses to return the dog when the police demand it. Which is
failure to comply with a lawful request, which they could put her in
jail with, but they aren't. Most likely the dog isn't at her residence
but with someone else who works with her group. They can't break down
the doors of everyone with ties to the group, so it is pretty near
impossible to retrieve the dog unless someone gives them enough cause
for a search warrant... which who is going to bother with that. Once
it makes it before a judge the judge can issue a court order for her to
return the dog. At which point if she still refuses she can be held in
contempt which would put her in a whole new level of legal problems.
At least that is according to my understanding of the legal system...
I'm not a lawyer so don't take anything I say as fact, it is just an
educated interpretation.

Basically, they have charged her with everything they feel like
bringing against her and she was offered bail by the judge. I wish the
judge had made the bail conditional to her assisting the authorities
with the return of the dog, because then if she didn't comply she would
get locked back up where she belongs.

wrote:
wrote:
Can someone please tell me why the police have not forced Tammy to
return the dog? I keep reading how they can't do anything because they
don't know where the dog is.

Why hasn't she been put in jail until she reveals the location of Jake?

She refuses to return the dog when the police demand it. Which is
failure to comply with a lawful request, which they could put her in
jail with, but they aren't. Most likely the dog isn't at her residence
but with someone else who works with her group. They can't break down
the doors of everyone with ties to the group, so it is pretty near
impossible to retrieve the dog unless someone gives them enough cause
for a search warrant... which who is going to bother with that. Once
it makes it before a judge the judge can issue a court order for her to
return the dog. At which point if she still refuses she can be held in
contempt which would put her in a whole new level of legal problems.
At least that is according to my understanding of the legal system...
I'm not a lawyer so don't take anything I say as fact, it is just an
educated interpretation.

Basically, they have charged her with everything they feel like
bringing against her and she was offered bail by the judge. I wish the
judge had made the bail conditional to her assisting the authorities
with the return of the dog, because then if she didn't comply she would
get locked back up where she belongs.

Thank you

I don't know if the dog was abused or just a live past his time, but if
I had a dog for 19 years and someone took it I would be heart broken.

wrote:

Thank you

I don't know if the dog was abused or just a live past his time, but if
I had a dog for 19 years and someone took it I would be heart broken.

As would I. The important thing is that the prosecutor needs to be
certain to keep the focus off the condition of the dog, which is what
Tammy Grimes and her crew are trying to draw massive attention to. If
they can keep that in the mind of whoever is ruling on the case, be it
judge or jury, then justice should be served. I don't know if it is a
trial by jury or by judge, but if it goes before a jury she has a
better chance of getting away with her crimes. Your average joe is
more likely to let someone go free on the humanity card, but a judge is
more likely to keep focused on the actual laws which are broken.

Did she Trespass? Yes.
Did she Steal? Yes.
Should she be punished? Yes.

I also think she should be punished to the full extent permitted.
Lenience should only go to those who are cooperative with authorities.
She has done nothing to deserve it, and she is trying to use the media
to bully the government into dropping the charges.

Nick

My opinion for what it is worth is that Jake is forgotten in all of
this. I did not need a Vet to tell me that the dog was abused or
neglected. When a 19 year old dog on a chain lays there for 3 long days
that is abuse and neglect. The owners do not deserve the respect of
being told he was being taken. Do you think they really care? His
condition did not come about over night.
The whole thing is an ugly mess and poor Jake is the one that
suffers. I know the neighbor was trying to help when she initially
called but if she lived in sight of Jake she could have given her
address to get AC out there.
Initially I thought Tammy was a damn fool for not giving the dog up
when ordered to do so. Now I have second thoughts. I think Jake
deserves to "go out" with a little bit of love and attention. I would
be willing to bet once the owners got their precious pet back they would
opt to euthanize him, to avoid paying for any kind of medical attention
OR even chain him back up if the AC approved it and they probably would
if he had food and water despite the fact he couldn't stand.
I would have rescued Jake in a heart beat. There is no way I would
walk by and let him lay there, I cannot stand the thought of it.
Please don't say the owners needed to be educated. They should not be
allowed to have dogs.......Geeze I wonder if he spent 19 years chained
to a dog house????????? That is Hell on earth to me.
Tammy blew it.....big time....I am sure she was trying to do a good
thing but her whole group will go down over this. She could have had
some one else not involved do it discreetly.
RUN JAKE RUN!!!!! BE FREE......

Be Free,
Judy

"Judith Althouse" wrote in message
...
My opinion for what it is worth is that Jake is forgotten in all of
this. I did not need a Vet to tell me that the dog was abused or
neglected.

Who said anyone did?

When a 19 year old dog on a chain lays there for 3 long days
that is abuse and neglect.

I agree. Never said I didn't.

The owners do not deserve the respect of
being told he was being taken.

What they "deserve" has nothing at all to do with what should be done to
*actually* help animals. As I said in my post, Grimes has done a FAR greater
disservice to dogs than the good she did for one dog. Those owners have
another dog. Do you think anyolne in animal welfare will EVER get them to be
willing to listen now? I'm betting their ears are forever closed....but I
believe they will still be acquiring dogs for years to come. And yes, I
think that sucks. And she had an opportunity to TEACH these people. But you
simply can NOT teach people and disrespect them at the same time.

And, she certainly could have treated them with a modicum of respect (even
if only to keep them open to further teaching) AND gotten treatment for the
dog. But when someone wants to punish, they're damned well going to
punish....even when it does more harm than good.

Do you think they really care?

Yes, its pretty clear that they do, actually.

His
condition did not come about over night.

Of course it didn't. These people are habitual neglectors. That does NOT
make them unteachable, however. Well, they are NOW.

Please don't say the owners needed to be educated.

Why not? As long as they will potentially own dogs, I will strongly state
that they should be educated. I doubt that you really disagree with that.

They should not be
allowed to have dogs...

Yeah, well just as soon as you become emperor, you go ahead and make those
decisions. But for now, they DO have that right, and I bet they continue to
exercise their right to own dogs....whether you ro I like it or not. SO your
plan for "helping" is incredibnly.....well, unhelpful, and doesn't do a
damned thing for their future dogs.

....Geeze I wonder if he spent 19 years chained
to a dog house?????????

I bet he did....and that breaks my heart. Its why I want to see these people
(and the gazillion people just like them) EDUCATED so this becomes less and
less of an occurance.

That is Hell on earth to me.
Tammy blew it.....big time....I am sure she was trying to do a good
thing but her whole group will go down over this. She could have had
some one else not involved do it discreetly.

This doesn't at all mesh with what you said earlier. She ****ed up. She
undermined the ability of that group to help animals. Yup, yup....that's
pretty much what people are saying....and yet you seem to disagree.

RUN JAKE RUN!!!!! BE FREE......

Drama is another thing that isn't particularly helpful in cases like this.
Doesn't do a damned thing for the dogs.

Tara