Hello again everyone. My dog Muttley is making progress with his training
(or maybe I am), but he has been exhibiting a behavior that is a bit
troubling, and I would like advice on best ways to handle it.

If I hand feed him a small piece of food, such as cheese or meat, he very
carefully takes it from my fingers, mostly using his lips and tongue.
However, when I give him a rawhide chew, he often gets excited and lunges
for it, often knocking it from my hand. I have tried pulling it away when
he tries to lunge, but I am afraid he might interpret this as teasing or
playing, which may make the behavior worse. He is not really resource
aggressive, and I can take his chews or other food from him without any
real argument.

I think he uses the chews as an outlet for his excess energy, and he will
actually chew up and eat a medium size rawhide bone in less than half an
hour, and a small chip in a few minutes. He eats them carefully by chewing
off small pieces, rather than trying to swallow large chunks, but he does
work at them with great intensity.

He also sometimes nips just a little bit when I play with him. Usually he
just grabs a bit of my sleeve, and he does not bite hard, but it can hurt
if he gets a piece of my skin. He also likes to play by rolling over and
flailing his front and back legs, and I have to be careful that he doesn't
hit me in the eye with his claws.

Thanks for any suggestions to make sure these do not become real problems.
It might discourage a potential adopter if he acts this way, or if he
should nip their hand. He is a powerful dog, and even an accidental bite or
scratch could be serious.

Paul and Muttley

Paul E. Schoen wrote:
Hello again everyone. My dog Muttley is making progress with his training
(or maybe I am), but he has been exhibiting a behavior that is a bit
troubling, and I would like advice on best ways to handle it.

If I hand feed him a small piece of food, such as cheese or meat, he very
carefully takes it from my fingers, mostly using his lips and tongue.
However, when I give him a rawhide chew, he often gets excited and lunges
for it, often knocking it from my hand. I have tried pulling it away when
he tries to lunge, but I am afraid he might interpret this as teasing or
playing, which may make the behavior worse. He is not really resource
aggressive, and I can take his chews or other food from him without any
real argument.

I think he uses the chews as an outlet for his excess energy, and he will
actually chew up and eat a medium size rawhide bone in less than half an
hour, and a small chip in a few minutes. He eats them carefully by chewing
off small pieces, rather than trying to swallow large chunks, but he does
work at them with great intensity.

He also sometimes nips just a little bit when I play with him. Usually he
just grabs a bit of my sleeve, and he does not bite hard, but it can hurt
if he gets a piece of my skin. He also likes to play by rolling over and
flailing his front and back legs, and I have to be careful that he doesn't
hit me in the eye with his claws.

Thanks for any suggestions to make sure these do not become real problems.
It might discourage a potential adopter if he acts this way, or if he
should nip their hand. He is a powerful dog, and even an accidental bite or
scratch could be serious.

Paul and Muttley

When I give a dog a chew toy or treat, if they lunge at my hands I take
the treat away from them and put it up. Don't give it back for a half
hour or so. He should get the point. It follows the whole nothing in
life is free policy. Except he doesn't get the treat unless he takes
it nice. This may not work with some dogs when it comes to treats,
since some inhale them. My dog is the weirdest thing when it comes to
chewing food and treats. He will not put more than three peices of
food in his mouth at once, and he completely chews and swallows the
three peices before getting any more. I use a small kibble too, not a
dental type kibble. Small enough that my other dog, a cairn terrier
would probably swallow it whole if he was fed the same food.

"Paul E. Schoen" wrote in message
...
Hello again everyone. My dog Muttley is making progress with his training
(or maybe I am), but he has been exhibiting a behavior that is a bit
troubling, and I would like advice on best ways to handle it.

If I hand feed him a small piece of food, such as cheese or meat, he very
carefully takes it from my fingers, mostly using his lips and tongue.
However, when I give him a rawhide chew, he often gets excited and lunges
for it, often knocking it from my hand. I have tried pulling it away when
he tries to lunge, but I am afraid he might interpret this as teasing or
playing, which may make the behavior worse. He is not really resource
aggressive, and I can take his chews or other food from him without any
real argument.

I think he uses the chews as an outlet for his excess energy, and he will
actually chew up and eat a medium size rawhide bone in less than half an
hour, and a small chip in a few minutes. He eats them carefully by chewing
off small pieces, rather than trying to swallow large chunks, but he does
work at them with great intensity.

He also sometimes nips just a little bit when I play with him. Usually he
just grabs a bit of my sleeve, and he does not bite hard, but it can hurt
if he gets a piece of my skin. He also likes to play by rolling over and
flailing his front and back legs, and I have to be careful that he doesn't
hit me in the eye with his claws.

Thanks for any suggestions to make sure these do not become real problems.
It might discourage a potential adopter if he acts this way, or if he
should nip their hand. He is a powerful dog, and even an accidental bite
or
scratch could be serious.

Paul and Muttley
===
I never rough play with my rotty, because I don't want her to get too
excited; I don't think it is a good idea to get a large or agressive type
dog too excited with rough play; they start running around and knocking
people down and nipping hands. If your dog leaps for the chewie, I would
place the chewie near his food dish, instead of handing it to him, and let
him know that that is where he gets his food and treats.

"pfoley" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Paul E. Schoen" wrote in message
...
Hello again everyone. My dog Muttley is making progress with his
training
(or maybe I am), but he has been exhibiting a behavior that is a bit
troubling, and I would like advice on best ways to handle it.

If I hand feed him a small piece of food, such as cheese or meat, he
very
carefully takes it from my fingers, mostly using his lips and tongue.
However, when I give him a rawhide chew, he often gets excited and
lunges
for it, often knocking it from my hand. I have tried pulling it away
when
he tries to lunge, but I am afraid he might interpret this as teasing or
playing, which may make the behavior worse. He is not really resource
aggressive, and I can take his chews or other food from him without any
real argument.

I think he uses the chews as an outlet for his excess energy, and he
will
actually chew up and eat a medium size rawhide bone in less than half an
hour, and a small chip in a few minutes. He eats them carefully by
chewing
off small pieces, rather than trying to swallow large chunks, but he
does
work at them with great intensity.

He also sometimes nips just a little bit when I play with him. Usually
he
just grabs a bit of my sleeve, and he does not bite hard, but it can
hurt
if he gets a piece of my skin. He also likes to play by rolling over and
flailing his front and back legs, and I have to be careful that he
doesn't
hit me in the eye with his claws.

Thanks for any suggestions to make sure these do not become real
problems.
It might discourage a potential adopter if he acts this way, or if he
should nip their hand. He is a powerful dog, and even an accidental bite
or
scratch could be serious.

Paul and Muttley
===
I never rough play with my rotty, because I don't want her to get too
excited; I don't think it is a good idea to get a large or agressive type
dog too excited with rough play; they start running around and knocking
people down and nipping hands. If your dog leaps for the chewie, I would
place the chewie near his food dish, instead of handing it to him, and
let
him know that that is where he gets his food and treats.


Tonight I tried to make sure he was relatively calm when I gave him a
rawhide chew. He had told me that he wanted one by putting his nose on the
bag. I keep it on a coffee table where he could get at them if he wanted
to, but even when left alone for 8 hours or more, he has not gotten into
them. Also, he has not gotten into the big bag of dog food on the floor,
and it even seems like he barely touches his dry food which I leave out for
him. I find that amazing and commendable. So, I gave him the chew, and he
did grab it more aggressively than he would a piece of ham. He started to
chew on it, and I took it away briefly, without any complaint. I gave it
back, and he proceeded to devour it. I would like to be able to give him
treats, rather than leaving them by his food or tossing them to him. Maybe
I'm asking too much for him to be more polite?

I enjoy a little bit of roughhousing with Muttley. He really doesn't get
much chance to expend his considerable energy as I wish he could, by
running and playing in a safe environment. He does seem to get a bit
excited, but I never have a real problem settling him down. He was much
worse at first about jumping up on me when he was excited, especially when
I first got home, but he is much better now. I could probably prohibit such
behavior, but in a way I actually enjoy it. It is mostly a problem when
someone like my friend Helene (who rescued Muttley) visits him, and he
weighs almost as much as she does, so she is understandably afraid he will
knock her over. He settles down fairly quickly, however. He is just happy
to see her.

I am leaning more now toward keeping him, and maybe I can put up a fence
where he can run safely, or maybe take him somewhere he can. It has been
difficult trying to sort out the pros and cons of having a dog who is fun
to play with and certainly good protection, versus the partial alienation
of my cat Photon. It seems like I can balance both, and they may eventually
be able to tolerate each other. It has been a long, sometimes stressful
experience with my efforts to do what is best for Muttley, Photon, and
myself, but I have learned a lot, and it really is nice to be good buddies
with a big, intelligent creature who is responsive, protective, and loving.
As I write this, Muttley is snoring on my bed behind me, perfectly calm and
trustworthy. At this point, I don't know how I could give him up, unless it
was to someone I really knew well, and with whom I was convinced he would
have a better life.

Thank you all for your many words of encouragement and good advice, even if
it was sometimes hard to accept and act on. It looks like I might owe Janet
her normal training fees if I decide to keep this lovable Mutt, but that is
a small part of the cost of dog ownership, and well worth it.

Paul and Muttley, and (somewhere) Photon

Paul,

Lunging for food is a common thing when it comes to food items that are
of special interest with animals. I have trained a wide range of
animals from killer whales to beagles and food discretion is something
animals seem to have an inate ability to retain.

Sounds like Muttley just loves a chew and is set on getting it. There
may of been some hesitancy in the past on your reaction when giving it
to him which causes him to think that it is acceptable to take chews in
this manner. Not saying this for sure but I have seen it when animals
react differently based on the presentation and manner that food is
presented. For example the process in giving him cheese may be in such
a way that he understands the rules of proper taking of this. My
assumption would be that you spent some quality time teaching him to
accept food in this manner. A step that you might of assumed would be
carried over to larger food types.

One of my earliest challenges in animal training was a 700 lb sea lion
named Clyde. He loved to knock the food bucket off the trainer which
was humorous for the crowd but a little scary as the trainer.

There were two theories on how to deal with this. Keep the bucket away
from him (which was difficult due to his size) or train him to wait. I
choose to train him to wait. At first I would give him opportunity to
"steal" from the bucket but their was nothing in the bucket to steal. I
than taught him to do an "incompatible" behavior to stealing the
bucket. This was lying down as the bucket was than higher than his
head. By teaching him to wait and understand that by participating in a
pleasant behavior for us both (lying down) he learned that he got what
he truely was after.

Large animals present trainers to become more creative in your
communication with your animals. Large dogs are on the fine line with
their owners dependant on the physical size of the owner. By being
creative and using non physical means to communicate proper etiquette
you will quickly realzie that their head will work quicker than their
paws.

I would be definitely concerned in any form of small nips that are
starting. These are precursors to a tendancy of more agressive
behavior. You have two options dependant on yoru comfort in teaching.
One form teaches you to correct behavior physically. This opportunity
is not given to us with large animals so I always choose the simple
stop ignore reset posture. Which teaches the animal the act of nipping
causes the behavior they desire to be terminated. They quickly learn to
communicate in much more postive manners on how to play.

Redirection of incompatible behaviors is a great tool in communciating
animals. Feel free to write for more specific examples.

Christopher
Paul E. Schoen wrote:
Hello again everyone. My dog Muttley is making progress with his training
(or maybe I am), but he has been exhibiting a behavior that is a bit
troubling, and I would like advice on best ways to handle it.

If I hand feed him a small piece of food, such as cheese or meat, he very
carefully takes it from my fingers, mostly using his lips and tongue.
However, when I give him a rawhide chew, he often gets excited and lunges
for it, often knocking it from my hand. I have tried pulling it away when
he tries to lunge, but I am afraid he might interpret this as teasing or
playing, which may make the behavior worse. He is not really resource
aggressive, and I can take his chews or other food from him without any
real argument.

I think he uses the chews as an outlet for his excess energy, and he will
actually chew up and eat a medium size rawhide bone in less than half an
hour, and a small chip in a few minutes. He eats them carefully by chewing
off small pieces, rather than trying to swallow large chunks, but he does
work at them with great intensity.

He also sometimes nips just a little bit when I play with him. Usually he
just grabs a bit of my sleeve, and he does not bite hard, but it can hurt
if he gets a piece of my skin. He also likes to play by rolling over and
flailing his front and back legs, and I have to be careful that he doesn't
hit me in the eye with his claws.

Thanks for any suggestions to make sure these do not become real problems.
It might discourage a potential adopter if he acts this way, or if he
should nip their hand. He is a powerful dog, and even an accidental bite or
scratch could be serious.

Paul and Muttley

Paul E. Schoen wrote:
Tonight I tried to make sure he was relatively calm when I gave him a
rawhide chew. He had told me that he wanted one by putting his nose on the
bag. I keep it on a coffee table where he could get at them if he wanted
to, but even when left alone for 8 hours or more, he has not gotten into
them. Also, he has not gotten into the big bag of dog food on the floor,
and it even seems like he barely touches his dry food which I leave out for
him. I find that amazing and commendable. So, I gave him the chew, and he
did grab it more aggressively than he would a piece of ham. He started to
chew on it, and I took it away briefly, without any complaint. I gave it
back, and he proceeded to devour it. I would like to be able to give him
treats, rather than leaving them by his food or tossing them to him. Maybe
I'm asking too much for him to be more polite?


Ok, so I would never let my dog tell me when he wanted a chew. If you
let him tell you when he wants anything and you comply, it raises a
small social rank issue. Basically I would advise against ever letting
a dog get what it is telling you it wants. This includes things such
as attention as well. For instance, if my dog comes up to me and prods
me with his nose, signaling he wants me to pet him, I don't pet him. I
give him an alternate instruction which he must comply with, such as to
lay down or go to his bed. Some time later, after he has forgotten
that he told me he wanted attention, I will call him back over to me
and lavish him with attention. The same thing holds true for his
treats, he should never get them when he tells you he wants them. In
the case of my dog, his treats are kept up high so he can not get him,
which in his case means over about 6 feet. He will sit when he wants
them and give me very sad eyes, but I do not yield to his command, and
make him wait till I feel like giving him a treat. If I gave him
treats as often as he tells me to, he would probably have about 10 lbs
of fat on him instead of the nice lean healthy weight I keep him at.
You give treats to him because he is a good dog who does what he is
told, and gets treats once in a while. I wouldn't advise against just
tossing them by his food personally, because to me that is ignoring the
underlying issue. Regardless of if you want to adopt him out or keep
him yourself, he needs to learn manners. Think of being well behaved
and doing as he is told as his job.


Nick

In article .com,
wrote:
Basically I would advise against ever letting
a dog get what it is telling you it wants.

Dog: "I want to go out"
You: "NA NA NA NA NA I CAN'T HEAR YOU NA NA NA NA NA"
Dog: "Uh, okay." Hikes leg on your chair

If I gave him
treats as often as he tells me to, he would probably have about 10 lbs
of fat on him instead of the nice lean healthy weight I keep him at.

That's not a pack structure reason, that's a dog health
reason.

I don't see a problem with rewarding a dog for asking for
something politely. Whether or not he gets it depends on
the circumstances, but a polite request (sitting and
waiting, for example) is already showing the kind of
submission that you seem to expect.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community

On 25 Sep 2006 06:52:26 -0700,
"
, clicked their heels and
said:
Paul E. Schoen wrote:
Tonight I tried to make sure he was relatively calm when I gave him a
rawhide chew. He had told me that he wanted one by putting his nose on the
bag.


Ok, so I would never let my dog tell me when he wanted a chew. ..........
Regardless of if you want to adopt him out or keep
him yourself, he needs to learn manners. Think of being well behaved
and doing as he is told as his job.

I agree. Must have missed the "request for rawhide" (I personally
don't give the stuff).

Paul - bring a chew with you to class tomorrow night.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

Melinda Shore wrote:
In article .com,
wrote:
Basically I would advise against ever letting
a dog get what it is telling you it wants.

Dog: "I want to go out"
You: "NA NA NA NA NA I CAN'T HEAR YOU NA NA NA NA NA"
Dog: "Uh, okay." Hikes leg on your chair


Ok, so a dog asking for treats and acting like it needs to go out are
completely different. That being said, my dog never asks to go out, or
tell me he needs to go out. He goes out often enough at regular
intervals far before he has a need to go to the bathroom.

If I gave him
treats as often as he tells me to, he would probably have about 10 lbs
of fat on him instead of the nice lean healthy weight I keep him at.

That's not a pack structure reason, that's a dog health
reason.

I don't see a problem with rewarding a dog for asking for
something politely. Whether or not he gets it depends on
the circumstances, but a polite request (sitting and
waiting, for example) is already showing the kind of
submission that you seem to expect.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community

I don't give him treats on his command because of a pack structure
reason, if I did, I wouldn't be able to give him as often as he asks
because of medical reasons.

wrote in message:

Ok, so a dog asking for treats and acting like it needs to go out are
completely different.

They sure are, but you made a generalization (about *never* giving a dog
what it wants) that didn't differentiate.

That being said, my dog never asks to go out, or
tell me he needs to go out. He goes out often enough at regular
intervals far before he has a need to go to the bathroom.

Sheesh, am I the only one whose dogs occasionally has the runs or needs to
throw up?

Suja