I had written several weeks ago about our 3 year old male Shih Tzu Toby.
During an extremely hot humid spell he developed red underarms. They did
not seem to be itchy, and did not bother him at all, I used
anti-histamine ointment on it for a while and also Gold Bond ointment.
There was little change over a week or so, then I noticed that it seemed to
be between his toes as well. I called our vet and made an appointment to
bring him in.

Let me say that we have used this vet for perhaps 20 years and have always
felt confident in his choice of treatment. He did an examination of Toby
and said that he had a fungus infection. He did not do a culture on it. He
prescribed Ketoconazole, 100 mg twice a day. We started Friday evening with
the pills, after a few hours it became obvious that the pills were making
Toby sick, he did not eat from Friday until Sunday night,
he ate a little late Sunday nite, then promptly threw up
what little he had eaten. From the first pill he became very listless,
stopped doing anything but sleeping and looked very forlorn. He is usually
a happy go lucky pup who enjoys life to the fullest, and it is very
upsetting to see him so listless. Monday morning I called our vet
and told him how the pills had affected Toby. They seemed to doubt that it
could be the pills, but rather thought that it is some other illness that he
came down with at the same time we started the pills. No matter, they said
to stop giving the pills for 3 or 4 days then to resume treatment. I gave
him the last pill at 6 PM Sunday night, Toby seemed to be feeling somewhat
better by Monday evening, he ate a light meal. Today he seems more like
himself
not quite as lively as usual but much better than while he was taking the
medication.

My question is, has anyone had experience with fungus infections in dogs and
with using Ketoconazole to treat it? Also could the amount of dosage be the
problem, is 100mg twice a day the right amount for a dog who weighs 12 lbs?
I Googled for info and it seems that is a very high dosage for a little dog.
Isn't it necessary to do a culture for a positive diagnosis of fungus.

Is there an over the counter topical treatment that will cure fungus? If
need be I will take him for a second opinion, as it seems that this cure is
far worse than the disease. I don't believe that I am willing to resume
giving him the Ketoconazole, so will have to find an alternative treatment
for him. Our Vet also sold us KetoChlor Medicated shampoo, which I've used
once, I don't know how effective this is for the treatment of fungus.

Just one more question, Toby is strictly a house dog, he does not come in
contact with many other animals, is it likely that he contracted this
disease in the groomers? He goes about once a month in the summer.

I appreciate any thoughts that you might share, Toby is a much loved family
member, whatever he needs he will get, but I need guidance in making the
right choices for him.

Best regards,

Toby's Mom: Penny

i can by yeast which is fungal. My poodle has chronic yeast/allergies.
I do think the ketaconazole dose is high.. dexter who is about 15lbs
gets 1/4 tab daily. I've been told this is a very low dose though.
Your vet might have thought the infection warranted the high dose. All
dogs/humans are different in teh way they react to meds. Is it the fur
that is red or the skin? Dexter gets red fur from licking..

hope toby is better!

Penny wrote:
I had written several weeks ago about our 3 year old male Shih Tzu Toby.
During an extremely hot humid spell he developed red underarms. They did
not seem to be itchy, and did not bother him at all, I used
anti-histamine ointment on it for a while and also Gold Bond ointment.
There was little change over a week or so, then I noticed that it seemed to
be between his toes as well. I called our vet and made an appointment to
bring him in.

Let me say that we have used this vet for perhaps 20 years and have always
felt confident in his choice of treatment. He did an examination of Toby
and said that he had a fungus infection. He did not do a culture on it. He
prescribed Ketoconazole, 100 mg twice a day. We started Friday evening with
the pills, after a few hours it became obvious that the pills were making
Toby sick, he did not eat from Friday until Sunday night,
he ate a little late Sunday nite, then promptly threw up
what little he had eaten. From the first pill he became very listless,
stopped doing anything but sleeping and looked very forlorn. He is usually
a happy go lucky pup who enjoys life to the fullest, and it is very
upsetting to see him so listless. Monday morning I called our vet
and told him how the pills had affected Toby. They seemed to doubt that it
could be the pills, but rather thought that it is some other illness that he
came down with at the same time we started the pills. No matter, they said
to stop giving the pills for 3 or 4 days then to resume treatment. I gave
him the last pill at 6 PM Sunday night, Toby seemed to be feeling somewhat
better by Monday evening, he ate a light meal. Today he seems more like
himself
not quite as lively as usual but much better than while he was taking the
medication.

My question is, has anyone had experience with fungus infections in dogs and
with using Ketoconazole to treat it? Also could the amount of dosage be the
problem, is 100mg twice a day the right amount for a dog who weighs 12 lbs?
I Googled for info and it seems that is a very high dosage for a little dog.
Isn't it necessary to do a culture for a positive diagnosis of fungus.

Is there an over the counter topical treatment that will cure fungus? If
need be I will take him for a second opinion, as it seems that this cure is
far worse than the disease. I don't believe that I am willing to resume
giving him the Ketoconazole, so will have to find an alternative treatment
for him. Our Vet also sold us KetoChlor Medicated shampoo, which I've used
once, I don't know how effective this is for the treatment of fungus.

Just one more question, Toby is strictly a house dog, he does not come in
contact with many other animals, is it likely that he contracted this
disease in the groomers? He goes about once a month in the summer.

I appreciate any thoughts that you might share, Toby is a much loved family
member, whatever he needs he will get, but I need guidance in making the
right choices for him.

Best regards,

Toby's Mom: Penny

Thank you for your response. Is the tablet that you use a 200 mg tablet to
start? So that your giving 50 mg once a day?

The skin is red and has what looks like dark spots on it, but the fur is
also reddish in the area that is affected, normally the fur is white in
those spots. This is under the front arms (the area that would be armpits
on humans) and between the toes. There is a darkish waxy looking secretion
between the toes. I asked the vet about that, but he just said that is what
fungus does,

Toby is almost back to normal, but the rash sure does not look any better.

Thanks again,

Regards,
Penny


wrote in message
ups.com...
i can by yeast which is fungal. My poodle has chronic yeast/allergies.
I do think the ketaconazole dose is high.. dexter who is about 15lbs
gets 1/4 tab daily. I've been told this is a very low dose though.
Your vet might have thought the infection warranted the high dose. All
dogs/humans are different in teh way they react to meds. Is it the fur
that is red or the skin? Dexter gets red fur from licking..

hope toby is better!

Penny wrote:
I had written several weeks ago about our 3 year old male Shih Tzu Toby.
During an extremely hot humid spell he developed red underarms. They did
not seem to be itchy, and did not bother him at all, I used
anti-histamine ointment on it for a while and also Gold Bond ointment.
There was little change over a week or so, then I noticed that it seemed
to
be between his toes as well. I called our vet and made an appointment to
bring him in.

Let me say that we have used this vet for perhaps 20 years and have
always
felt confident in his choice of treatment. He did an examination of Toby
and said that he had a fungus infection. He did not do a culture on it.
He
prescribed Ketoconazole, 100 mg twice a day. We started Friday evening
with
the pills, after a few hours it became obvious that the pills were making
Toby sick, he did not eat from Friday until Sunday night,
he ate a little late Sunday nite, then promptly threw up
what little he had eaten. From the first pill he became very listless,
stopped doing anything but sleeping and looked very forlorn. He is
usually
a happy go lucky pup who enjoys life to the fullest, and it is very
upsetting to see him so listless. Monday morning I called our vet
and told him how the pills had affected Toby. They seemed to doubt that
it
could be the pills, but rather thought that it is some other illness that
he
came down with at the same time we started the pills. No matter, they
said
to stop giving the pills for 3 or 4 days then to resume treatment. I
gave
him the last pill at 6 PM Sunday night, Toby seemed to be feeling
somewhat
better by Monday evening, he ate a light meal. Today he seems more like
himself
not quite as lively as usual but much better than while he was taking the
medication.

My question is, has anyone had experience with fungus infections in dogs
and
with using Ketoconazole to treat it? Also could the amount of dosage be
the
problem, is 100mg twice a day the right amount for a dog who weighs 12
lbs?
I Googled for info and it seems that is a very high dosage for a little
dog.
Isn't it necessary to do a culture for a positive diagnosis of fungus.

Is there an over the counter topical treatment that will cure fungus? If
need be I will take him for a second opinion, as it seems that this cure
is
far worse than the disease. I don't believe that I am willing to resume
giving him the Ketoconazole, so will have to find an alternative
treatment
for him. Our Vet also sold us KetoChlor Medicated shampoo, which I've
used
once, I don't know how effective this is for the treatment of fungus.

Just one more question, Toby is strictly a house dog, he does not come in
contact with many other animals, is it likely that he contracted this
disease in the groomers? He goes about once a month in the summer.

I appreciate any thoughts that you might share, Toby is a much loved
family
member, whatever he needs he will get, but I need guidance in making the
right choices for him.

Best regards,

Toby's Mom: Penny

"Penny" wrote in message
news:EScSg.1510$b23.1129@dukeread07...
Let me say that we have used this vet for perhaps 20 years and have always
felt confident in his choice of treatment. He did an examination of Toby
and said that he had a fungus infection. He did not do a culture on it.

........That's a shame. In order to treat, you have to know what it is. It
could be a Staph infection, which would mean the drug is doing nothing for
the problem.

He
prescribed Ketoconazole, 100 mg twice a day.
We started Friday evening with
the pills, after a few hours it became obvious that the pills were making
Toby sick,
They seemed to doubt that it
could be the pills, but rather thought that it is some other illness that
he
came down with at the same time we started the pills.

.........One would think a vet would know the common side effects of this
drug. Did you actually speak to the vet or only the receptionist?
http://marvistavet.com/html/body_ketoconazole.html
# The most common side effects are nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea. These may
be reduced by giving ketoconazole with food or by dividing the dose into
several smaller doses. If nausea is severe, it should resolve with
discontinuation of the medication.
# At higher doses or in certain individuals, liver disease can result from
administration but this should resolve with discontinuation of the
medication. This is usually a problem for cats rather than dogs.

My question is, has anyone had experience with fungus infections in dogs
and
with using Ketoconazole to treat it?

..........ASAIC, this drug should be reserved for internal infections, not
external. If a fungal infection of the skin was confirmed a lime-sulfur dip
once a week for a few weeks could have taken care of the problem with no
toxic side effects. It's certainly easier on the owner to give drugs, but
not necessarily on the dog.

Here are the most common uses of this drug. As you can see it is often used
for the heavy duty internal infections like blastomycosis:
http://merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index..../bc/190503.htm

Also could the amount of dosage be the
problem, is 100mg twice a day the right amount for a dog who weighs 12
lbs?

.........Not that I could find. At a dose of 10 mg/kg for a 12 pound dog
(5.45 kg), the dose should have been 55 mg/ ONCE a day (SID). The vet merck
manual says this (from the above link):

For dermatophytosis, ketoconazole is active against Trichophyton
verrucosum , T equinum , T mentagrophytes , Microsporum canis , and M
nanum . It is also active against the yeast Malassezia pachydermatis and
Cryptococcus neoformans and is normally used at 10 mg/kg, PO, sid. For
candidiasis, the dosage is 10 mg/kg for 6-8 wk. In some chronic cases, a
maintenance dosage of 2.5-5 mg/kg can be used.

I don't believe that I am willing to resume
giving him the Ketoconazole
.............I sure wouldn't and certainly not at that dose.

is it likely that he contracted this
disease in the groomers? He goes about once a month in the summer.

...........fungus is everywhere. A dog will only get it when there's
something going on which causes his skin to be out of balance or if the
immune system is not working right. Most dogs carry all the *bad* fungi on
their coats and nothing happens. Of course it is entirely possible that
someone groomed a dog loaded with fungus then innoculated your dog if they
didn't clean the equipment. I would think, though, that most grooming shops
take care about this sort of thing.

.........I hate to tell you to get a different vet after 20 yrs, but I would
not be happy the clinic was not aware of the possible side effects of the
drug. IMHO they should have known this.

buglady
take out the dog before replying

Thanks so much for your thoughts buglady. It really helps to hear from
others more experienced with these matters. I've owned dogs all my life but
never had to deal with a fungus infection. Think that I'll talk to my vet
in the morning. It was his receptionist that I spoke to. She relayed my
problems to the vet. I will question him on how he could be sure that Toby
has a fungus without lab identification, and also about his decision to give
him 200 mg a day when this seems clearly to be the amount to give a full
grown human. I truly have the feeling that this dosage continued for 21
days as he prescribed could have killed Toby. Also why he did not mention
that the medicine should be taken with food, nor did the bottle indicate
that food would aid in the tolerance of the drug. But, even with food I
feel sure that 200 mg a day would have sickened the dog.
Also his lack recognition that Toby's symptoms fit all of the side effects
of the medication certainly makes one doubt his experience with this
particular drug.

By the way, Toby is just about his old self this evening, he was starved and
enjoyed his dinner with unusual gusto. This brought much joy to his doting
Dad & Mom.

Thanks again buglady. I will report back later how Toby's problem is
resolved.

Best regards,

Penny


"buglady" wrote in message
link.net...
"Penny" wrote in message
news:EScSg.1510$b23.1129@dukeread07...
Let me say that we have used this vet for perhaps 20 years and have
always
felt confident in his choice of treatment. He did an examination of Toby
and said that he had a fungus infection. He did not do a culture on it.

.......That's a shame. In order to treat, you have to know what it is.
It
could be a Staph infection, which would mean the drug is doing nothing for
the problem.

He
prescribed Ketoconazole, 100 mg twice a day.
We started Friday evening with
the pills, after a few hours it became obvious that the pills were making
Toby sick,
They seemed to doubt that it
could be the pills, but rather thought that it is some other illness that
he
came down with at the same time we started the pills.

........One would think a vet would know the common side effects of this
drug. Did you actually speak to the vet or only the receptionist?
http://marvistavet.com/html/body_ketoconazole.html
# The most common side effects are nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea. These
may
be reduced by giving ketoconazole with food or by dividing the dose into
several smaller doses. If nausea is severe, it should resolve with
discontinuation of the medication.
# At higher doses or in certain individuals, liver disease can result from
administration but this should resolve with discontinuation of the
medication. This is usually a problem for cats rather than dogs.

My question is, has anyone had experience with fungus infections in dogs
and
with using Ketoconazole to treat it?

.........ASAIC, this drug should be reserved for internal infections, not
external. If a fungal infection of the skin was confirmed a lime-sulfur
dip
once a week for a few weeks could have taken care of the problem with no
toxic side effects. It's certainly easier on the owner to give drugs, but
not necessarily on the dog.

Here are the most common uses of this drug. As you can see it is often
used
for the heavy duty internal infections like blastomycosis:
http://merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index..../bc/190503.htm

Also could the amount of dosage be the
problem, is 100mg twice a day the right amount for a dog who weighs 12
lbs?

........Not that I could find. At a dose of 10 mg/kg for a 12 pound dog
(5.45 kg), the dose should have been 55 mg/ ONCE a day (SID). The vet
merck
manual says this (from the above link):

For dermatophytosis, ketoconazole is active against Trichophyton
verrucosum , T equinum , T mentagrophytes , Microsporum canis , and
M
nanum . It is also active against the yeast Malassezia pachydermatis
and
Cryptococcus neoformans and is normally used at 10 mg/kg, PO, sid. For
candidiasis, the dosage is 10 mg/kg for 6-8 wk. In some chronic cases, a
maintenance dosage of 2.5-5 mg/kg can be used.

I don't believe that I am willing to resume
giving him the Ketoconazole
............I sure wouldn't and certainly not at that dose.

is it likely that he contracted this
disease in the groomers? He goes about once a month in the summer.

..........fungus is everywhere. A dog will only get it when there's
something going on which causes his skin to be out of balance or if the
immune system is not working right. Most dogs carry all the *bad* fungi
on
their coats and nothing happens. Of course it is entirely possible that
someone groomed a dog loaded with fungus then innoculated your dog if they
didn't clean the equipment. I would think, though, that most grooming
shops
take care about this sort of thing.

........I hate to tell you to get a different vet after 20 yrs, but I
would
not be happy the clinic was not aware of the possible side effects of the
drug. IMHO they should have known this.

buglady
take out the dog before replying