Hello everyone:

If you have followed some of my posts, you know something about the ongoing
story of Muttley, the large GSD/Chow dog I have been trying to adopt or
place in a better home. I will add a bit more history later in this post.

Last Tuesday, toward the end of Janet's obedience class, Muttley and I had
just finished fairly successfully performing a sit/stay/come routine, and
then he was sitting by my side. The final routine was to be a "down", which
Muttley has had some difficulty with, and frankly I have not had the time
to work with him much on that. I was kneeling at his side, trying to hold
his collar while pushing his front legs down to the position, while he
resisted. Suddenly he lunged, knocking me over onto the parking lot, and I
lost grip of the leash as I reflexively broke my fall. Muttley took the
opportunity to attack a young black male Lab to my left, and it was a very
brutal attack. Janet and the instructors tried to gain control, and as soon
as I could get to my feet I grabbed the leash and pulled him off. That was
the end of the class, and the other dog, Bernie, was taken to an animal
hospital for treatment. When everyone had left, Janet counseled me about
what should be done about Muttley. She said this was more than ordinary
aggression, and only intensive (and expensive) one on one training would
have any chance at working, and in any case, he was not suited to group
training. She advised me that Muttley could be dangerous, and she
recommended that he be euthanized. "They can't all be saved".

I took Muttley to visit my nurse friend "H", who had originally rescued
Muttley from the streets of Baltimore in February, and she looked at his
fairly minor scratch on his ear, and we treated it with Triple Antibiotic
Ointment. He was his usual temperament, as he was soon after the incident.
I have discussed this with several other friends who have known Muttley in
person or by discussion, and I also exchanged emails with Janet, who
further explained her reasoning, and also arranged for me to get in touch
with Bernie's owner, offering to pay for medical expenses, which I have
done.

"H" was of the opinion that Muttley really needs a very dominant owner, and
a home probably without other dogs or young children, and a large fenced
yard where he can run and play and get the exercise he needs to expend his
extra energy. She was able to find homes for the other three dogs she
rescued, even though one black Lab was deemed to be aggressive toward a
young handler at the rescue where she was kept briefly. She has some
contacts with other rescues, so there might be some help there.

"L" has met Muttley, and advised me about his training, and loaned me her
book "There Are No Bad Dogs". She felt that Muttley (and I) were under
stress at the obedience classes, and he was feeling frustrated, so he just
lashed out at the nearest critter. She felt that the class was moving too
rapidly, and Muttley was not ready for the more advanced commands. Perhaps
the "down" position was a bit too submissive for him to be comfortable with
in that setting.

"G" has not personally met Muttley, but has tried to find people to adopt
him by displaying the poster from www.smart.net/~pstech/Muttley3.doc. She
told me about a frightening experience with a large Chow dog that belonged
to her relatives. It became agitated in the presence of a crowd of new
people, and snapped at two of them, who avoided serious injury by quick
reflexes, but "G" tried to pet the dog, and he suddenly lunged and bit her
lip, requiring emergency surgery. Later, the dog attacked and killed a
neighbor's dog, and the Chow had to be put down. She recommended the same
for Muttley.

I have pretty much come to the conclusion that I need to find a better home
for him, because I don't think I can give him the environment he needs. I
don't think I can trust him with my cat, even if it seems like he is more
accepting of her, because he may just be waiting for a chance to get her
close enough to attack. He has been OK with meeting people and other dogs
while I have had control of him, but he may be hard to read. He has a
fairly aloof demeanor, even with me, but he seems to wag his tail when he
is happy and comfortable, and puts his tail down and cowers when he is
unsure. This was how he acted early in the summer, when I had someone help
work on my house. The man briefly met Muttley and petted him, but he seemed
to cower and was not fully comfortable. Then Muttley was very agitated, and
barked a lot when he made a lot of noise working on the house. When he
walked past him, Muttley took the opportunity to bite him in the seat of
his pants, which was painful but luckily not serious enough to need
treatment.

This will be a hard decision to make. I think he will be OK in the right
environment, but I know it is difficult to find homes for even very mild
mannered larger dogs. I don't know Muttley's early history, and he may have
been abused. His tail has been cut short, which may have been the result of
some sort of mayhem rather than a cosmetic procedure. I enjoy Muttley's
company, but he is still hard to handle. It takes most of my strength to
hold him back when he sees a squirrel or deer and wants to give chase. He
has also barked fairly aggressively at someone walking by on the road, and
I don't know what he might have done if he managed to break loose. For my
own sanity and liability, I know it will be necessary to end the present
situation soon. As I write this, Muttley is quietly snoozing on my bed, and
he sleeps with me almost every night. He has been a good companion, and he
would probably be a good protector if I were threatened, but his
unpredictability and sudden aggression without warning are major concerns.
I would appreciate input from some of you who have attempted to help in the
past, by recommending obedience classes and other things, as well as from
those who may have had to deal with similar situations.

As a brief final summary of his history, I offer the following. In early
Fevruary, my friend "H" found Muttley along with three other dogs running
loose and abandoned in a poor neighborhood in downtown Baltimore. She was
able to give the dogs some food and gained their trust, and physically took
two of them to shelters. The remaining two, Muttley, and his "girlfriend",
a pregnant black Rottie, were taken by animal control to the city Pound. We
were able to get them out before they were put down, and took them to
various shelters. Muttley was neutered, and I was volunteered to transport
him to the SPCA where he was to be put into their no kill adoption program.
However, they had received an overload of Katrina refugees, and told me
that he would be euthanized if I released him to them. I quickly made
arrangements to keep him temporarily at my house, and it was very difficult
for a long time, trying to contain him in an outdoor kennel, keeping him
tied up outside with minimal shelter while I had to be gone, dealing with
his aggressiveness toward my cat, and getting discouraged about frequent
indoor peeing and chewing on things. However, by mid-summer, he seemed to
mellow out, and gradually I was able to trust him with free run inside the
house for 8-10 hours. He also seemed more tolerant of my cat Photon. Janet
had offered free obedience training for him, but I was overwhelmed with
many ongoing and new projects, as well as a difficult experience with
fleas. Finally, however, I made the effort and commitment to take him to
classes, and all seemed OK for the first couple of weeks. I was becoming
more confident that I might be able to keep him, or at least have a better
chance of finding a good home. Then, two weeks ago, he showed the first
major sign of unprovoked aggression, followed by the most recent, more
serious incident.

I am not trying to find fault or put blame on anyone for what has happened,
but I really have not been able to work with Muttley as much as I should
with the training classes, and they have been stressful to us both, because
of other responsibilities that I have had to attend to, as well as knee and
back problems that make it difficult for me to give him the exercise and
training that he really needs. Maybe it was good that the obedience classes
exposed a potentially dangerous problem, or perhaps they just caused undue
stress that made training difficult. I just wanted to present this entire
situation from my viewpoint, knowing full well that others will have
differing ideas. In the end, I must make my own decision, but I will
appreciate any help. After all, this is a matter of Life or Death.

Paul

"Paul E. Schoen" wrote:

Suddenly he lunged, knocking me over onto the parking lot, and I lost grip
of the leash as I reflexively broke my fall. Muttley took the
opportunity to attack a young black male Lab to my left,

He "suddenly lunged" at what?? The Lab? That sounds a lot more like he
was waiting for an opportunity to attack the Lab, and took advantage of you
being in a position to lose control, than vice versa.

Which would tend to make me agree with Janet about the level of his dog
aggression.





He was his usual temperament, as he was soon after the incident.

His temperament with YOU, and with another human that he knows well, really
doesn't have any bearing on his aggression towards other male dogs.


I have discussed this with several other friends who have known Muttley
in person or by discussion,

And how many of those people who have "known him in person" have seen him
around other dogs?

also arranged for me to get in touch with Bernie's owner, offering to pay
for medical expenses, which I have done.

Actually, I believe you were legally required to pay those expenses, since
your dog made an unprovoked attack on a leashed dog.



"H" was of the opinion that Muttley really needs a very dominant owner,

"Dominant" isn't as relevant, IMO, as experienced with dog-aggressive dogs,
and willing to take on a dog which is a liability.

and a home probably without other dogs or young children, and a large
fenced yard where he can run and play and get the exercise he needs to
expend his extra energy.

He will not get that exercise unless the person who takes him on is willing
to spend a substantial amount spend time out in that yard WITH him on a
regular basis... and again, is willing both to TRAIN him, and to accept the
liability and responsibility for a dog whose aggression level is such that
he is willing to do serious damage to other dogs.




"L" has met Muttley, and advised me about his training, and loaned me her
book "There Are No Bad Dogs". She felt that Muttley (and I) were under
stress at the obedience classes, and he was feeling frustrated, so he just
lashed out at the nearest critter.

Whether or not that's true, it doesn't change Janet's assessment (or mine
of the facts you present) one iota.
What's relevant here is not so much WHY he attacked the other dog, but the
level to which he took it.
MOST dogs, even if they felt they had to "lash out at the nearest critter",
would only snarl and/or snap, not make an extended attack which requires
several people to break up and results in serious injuries.

Perhaps the "down" position was a bit too submissive for him to be
comfortable with in that setting.

Perhaps it was. But see my reply above WRT the level of what he did. Also,
if the problem really was with you trying to physically force him into the
down, IMO he'd have been more likely to snap at or bite YOU (which I,
personally, would have more tolerance for than the dog attacking and causing
serious injury to another dog, apparently without provocation from said
dog).
And again, it may simply have been that he'd been wanting to attack the Lab
all along, and simply took advantage of you being in a position where he
felt he could escape your control.


I have pretty much come to the conclusion that I need to find a better
home for him, because I don't think I can give him the environment he
needs.

What about the safety that other pet owners in the vicinity of this
theoretical new home need? How about the safety that visitors to that home
may need?


I don't know Muttley's early history, and he may have been abused.

At this point, his history is less relevant than his demonstrated
willingness both to bite people and to do serious damage to other dogs.

but his unpredictability and sudden aggression without warning are major
concerns.

Yes, they are.

In all honesty, what do you think he will offer to some prospective adopter
that will make it worth it to them to deal with the issues you describe?


Muttley was neutered, and I was volunteered to transport him to the SPCA
where he was to be put into their no kill adoption program.

Erm... which SPCA was this? The Maryland SPCA is NOT a no-kill shelter;
they test and assess surrendered dogs for both dog-dog aggression AND
dog-human aggression before placing them in the adoption program.
What makes you think Muttley would have passed the assessment process?

(BTW - I haven't been on the group much lately, so you may not be aware
that both of my dogs as well as one of my cats were adopted from the MD
SPCA, and that I've also taken a number of lost dogs there.)



Maybe it was good that the obedience classes
exposed a potentially dangerous problem, or perhaps they just caused
undue stress that made training difficult.

"Undue stress that made training difficult" still doesn't account for both
the episodes of unprovoked aggression OR for the level of that aggression.
There are MANY dogs with bad temperaments in Baltimore, particularly in
areas such as the one where he was found; people deliberately breed for
aggression.
I also have to wonder, given the attack behaviour you describe, if he
doesn't have Pit Bull in him. I know of more than one incidence of Chows and
Pits being crossed in an attempt to get a dog with the power of the Pit and
the Chow's propensity for aggression towards humans. Add in a GSD with the
typical sharp/shy temperament you often see around here, and I suspect you'd
get something a lot like Muttley as you describe him.

After all, this is a matter of Life or Death.

Here's the question I'd be asking myself in this situation:

How will you feel if a decision of life for Muttley leads to death to
someone else's pet, or injury to a child?
For that matter, how do you feel about the fact that your decision to keep
him has ALREADY resulted in injury to someone else's beloved pet?

I have lot of tolerance for aggressive displays, self-defensive snapping
(whether at humans or other dogs), prey drive towards appropriate prey, etc.
However, I have just about ZERO tolerance for people who keep dogs that
present a serious threat to my pets.

And again, the other question is what do you think Muttley offers to any
prospective adopter that should make them willing to deal with his
aggression issues?

On Sat, 7 Oct 2006 15:35:11 -0400, "Paul E. Schoen"
wrote:

This was how he acted early in the summer, when I had someone help
work on my house. The man briefly met Muttley and petted him, but he seemed
to cower and was not fully comfortable. Then Muttley was very agitated, and
barked a lot when he made a lot of noise working on the house. When he
walked past him, Muttley took the opportunity to bite him in the seat of
his pants, which was painful but luckily not serious enough to need
treatment.

This will be a hard decision to make. I think he will be OK in the right
environment, but I know it is difficult to find homes for even very mild
mannered larger dogs.

You will need to disclose to anyone interested that Muttley has bitten
a human and has attacked a dog without provocation. Otherwise, it's
on your head if he hurts someone or some dog. You are not going to
find a home for him. You will either need to manage him yourself or
put him down if indeed he is highly dog aggressive and has bitten a
human without provocation. I don't remember the biting of the man
coming up before or I would have mentioned that you needed to change
your flier earlier. You simply cannot rehome a dog that has bitten
someone without disclosing the fact.

--
Paula
"Anyway, other people are weird, but sometimes they have candy,
so it's best to try to get along with them." Joe Bay

"Sionnach" wrote in message
...

[snip]
Thanks for the observations and opinions about this.

There are MANY dogs with bad temperaments in Baltimore, particularly in
areas such as the one where he was found; people deliberately breed for
aggression.
I also have to wonder, given the attack behaviour you describe, if he
doesn't have Pit Bull in him. I know of more than one incidence of Chows
and Pits being crossed in an attempt to get a dog with the power of the
Pit and the Chow's propensity for aggression towards humans. Add in a GSD
with the typical sharp/shy temperament you often see around here, and I
suspect you'd get something a lot like Muttley as you describe him.

I have suspected a possibility of some Pit Bull, especially from the
powerful jaws and large head. From the back, he looks like he could have
some Boxer. The Chow portion was suggested because of his purplish tongue
colors.

After all, this is a matter of Life or Death.

Here's the question I'd be asking myself in this situation:

How will you feel if a decision of life for Muttley leads to death to
someone else's pet, or injury to a child?
For that matter, how do you feel about the fact that your decision to
keep him has ALREADY resulted in injury to someone else's beloved pet?

I have lot of tolerance for aggressive displays, self-defensive snapping
(whether at humans or other dogs), prey drive towards appropriate prey,
etc.
However, I have just about ZERO tolerance for people who keep dogs that
present a serious threat to my pets.

And again, the other question is what do you think Muttley offers to any
prospective adopter that should make them willing to deal with his
aggression issues?
I have formed a strong bond with this dog, and others who have gotten to
know him feel that he deserves a chance. I would certainly be honest with
anyone who would like to try to take him in. It would have been much easier
on me if he had never been rescued from the Pound, or if I had just
released him to the SPCA. He was tested for aggression at one of the
shelters where he stayed as far as I know, but possibly just for food or
resource aggression. I think he should have had the chance to be evaluated
for and possibly acclimated to other dog aggression before he was admitted
to the class. That might have prevented these regrettable incidents. It was
a judgment call, and there was probably not enough information to have made
it otherwise, and now he has been branded with a history of aggression,
which will probably be a death sentence. I just think I need to give him
every benefit of doubt, and hopefully find someone that can handle and
train such a dog. He has become like a good buddy or child to me, as you
can probably understand, and that may blind me to what may seem obvious to
someone who has not known him. I was very surprised and concerned about the
viciousness of the attack, so I am proceeding cautiously.

Paul

On Sat, 7 Oct 2006 19:56:23 -0400, "Paul E. Schoen"
, clicked their heels and said:

I have suspected a possibility of some Pit Bull, especially from the
powerful jaws and large head. From the back, he looks like he could have
some Boxer. The Chow portion was suggested because of his purplish tongue
colors.

Ok - I prefer not to do this, but since my name is being brought into
this and *I* am the only one here besides Paul who has seen Muttley, I
will comment.

While I haven't inspected his tongue closely, I don't see Chow in this
dog. I remember seeing something vaguely Shar-Pei-ish in the early
pictures. When I think of his physical presence I thinm
GSD/APBT/Mastiff. He's probably a very mixed bag.

I have formed a strong bond with this dog, and others who have gotten to
know him feel that he deserves a chance.

Are they willing to bring him into their home? I'm betting not. What
I'd ask is "describe the home that you think would be interested in
owning this dog, with full disclosure about his behavior".

I would certainly be honest with
anyone who would like to try to take him in. It would have been much easier
on me if he had never been rescued from the Pound, or if I had just
released him to the SPCA.

Hindsight is always wonderful, but we make choices and sometimes, the
choices we have to make are painful.

I think he should have had the chance to be evaluated
for and possibly acclimated to other dog aggression before he was admitted
to the class.

You brought Muttley to meet me a few months ago, while classes were
coming and going and other dogs were around. I didn't see anything
overtly aggressive about him, and you didn't mention anything. I take
dog aggressive dogs in class, and take extra precautions when I know
they are. Muttley acts without any warning, although I know something
is there, but it's very subtle and I have not been the one handling
him during these episodes. He had been calmly sitting at heel both
times he exhibited behavior.

Stable dogs do NOT react to "stress" this way. There has been nothing
out of the ordinary asked for in these classes.

he has been branded with a history of aggression,
which will probably be a death sentence. I just think I need to give him
every benefit of doubt, and hopefully find someone that can handle and
train such a dog.

Again, who do you think is looking for a project? He IS aggressive.
UNWARRANTED aggression. And he would have killed that lab puppy if he
had been allowed to continue. Are you willing to risk you cat? The
neighbor's dog? The dog waiting at the vet's office?

He has become like a good buddy or child to me, as you
can probably understand,

That's part of the problem. You need to be able to be his LEADER, not
just his buddy (being both is fine).

. I was very surprised and concerned about the
viciousness of the attack, so I am proceeding cautiously.

As you should be. The rescue organization that you are fostering him
for should be making this decision based on facts rather than
emotions. The dog is dangerous unless in very skilled hands. Placing
him is not a reasonable option. Period.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

On Sat, 7 Oct 2006 19:20:22 -0400, "Sionnach" ,
clicked their heels and said:

He "suddenly lunged" at what?? The Lab? That sounds a lot more like he
was waiting for an opportunity to attack the Lab, and took advantage of you
being in a position to lose control, than vice versa.

I can tell you that he has been sitting calmly at heel, no stress
signals, and then WHAM.

"Dominant" isn't as relevant, IMO, as experienced with dog-aggressive dogs,
and willing to take on a dog which is a liability.

Bingo. And I don't think they're lining up to adopt an unknown
mixed-breed dog. And he's bitten a person as well. He has responded
well with me, and been cooperative.

and a home probably without other dogs or young children, and a large
fenced yard where he can run and play and get the exercise he needs to
expend his extra energy.

He will not get that exercise unless the person who takes him on is willing
to spend a substantial amount spend time out in that yard WITH him on a
regular basis... and again, is willing both to TRAIN him, and to accept the
liability and responsibility for a dog whose aggression level is such that
he is willing to do serious damage to other dogs.

Yup - "room to run" is a fantasy.

"L" has met Muttley, and advised me about his training, and loaned me her
book "There Are No Bad Dogs". She felt that Muttley (and I) were under
stress at the obedience classes, and he was feeling frustrated, so he just
lashed out at the nearest critter.

Frustrated isn't permission to VICIOUSLY ATTACK another dog.

Perhaps the "down" position was a bit too submissive for him to be
comfortable with in that setting.

Perhaps it was. But see my reply above WRT the level of what he did. Also,
if the problem really was with you trying to physically force him into the
down, IMO he'd have been more likely to snap at or bite YOU (which I,
personally, would have more tolerance for than the dog attacking and causing
serious injury to another dog, apparently without provocation from said
dog).
And again, it may simply have been that he'd been wanting to attack the Lab
all along, and simply took advantage of you being in a position where he
felt he could escape your control.

I believe Paul has said that he did not do a lot of work on the
homework - you can't expect a dog to do something in class that hasn't
been achieved at home.

What about the safety that other pet owners in the vicinity of this
theoretical new home need? How about the safety that visitors to that home
may need?

I wouldn't want him living near me.

Erm... which SPCA was this? The Maryland SPCA is NOT a no-kill shelter;
they test and assess surrendered dogs for both dog-dog aggression AND
dog-human aggression before placing them in the adoption program.
What makes you think Muttley would have passed the assessment process?

I don't think he would have.

"Undue stress that made training difficult" still doesn't account for both
the episodes of unprovoked aggression OR for the level of that aggression.

I agree totally. He would have killed the lab PUPPY.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

"Paul E. Schoen" wrote in message
...
After all, this is a matter of Life or Death.

Paul

Yes, it is. And not just for Muttley.

It was also a matter of life or death for that lab puppy. Who not only is
incurring vet bills but may require additional work by his owners to handle
future problems that may result from the trauma inflicted by Muttley.

And it would be a matter of life or death for your cat. And for any other
pet that he lashed out at.

And what if the next time it's a child?

Sometimes, being a grown-up sucks.

Judy

Paul E. Schoen wrote:
Hello everyone:

If you have followed some of my posts, you know something about the ongoing
story of Muttley, the large GSD/Chow dog I have been trying to adopt or
place in a better home. I will add a bit more history later in this post.

Last Tuesday, toward the end of Janet's obedience class, Muttley and I had
just finished fairly successfully performing a sit/stay/come routine, and
then he was sitting by my side. The final routine was to be a "down", which
Muttley has had some difficulty with, and frankly I have not had the time
to work with him much on that. I was kneeling at his side, trying to hold
his collar while pushing his front legs down to the position, while he
resisted. Suddenly he lunged, knocking me over onto the parking lot, and I
lost grip of the leash as I reflexively broke my fall. Muttley took the
opportunity to attack a young black male Lab to my left, and it was a very
brutal attack. Janet and the instructors tried to gain control, and as soon
as I could get to my feet I grabbed the leash and pulled him off. That was
the end of the class, and the other dog, Bernie, was taken to an animal
hospital for treatment. When everyone had left, Janet counseled me about
what should be done about Muttley. She said this was more than ordinary
aggression, and only intensive (and expensive) one on one training would
have any chance at working, and in any case, he was not suited to group
training. She advised me that Muttley could be dangerous, and she
recommended that he be euthanized. "They can't all be saved".

I took Muttley to visit my nurse friend "H", who had originally rescued
Muttley from the streets of Baltimore in February, and she looked at his
fairly minor scratch on his ear, and we treated it with Triple Antibiotic
Ointment. He was his usual temperament, as he was soon after the incident.
I have discussed this with several other friends who have known Muttley in
person or by discussion, and I also exchanged emails with Janet, who
further explained her reasoning, and also arranged for me to get in touch
with Bernie's owner, offering to pay for medical expenses, which I have
done.

"H" was of the opinion that Muttley really needs a very dominant owner, and
a home probably without other dogs or young children, and a large fenced
yard where he can run and play and get the exercise he needs to expend his
extra energy. She was able to find homes for the other three dogs she
rescued, even though one black Lab was deemed to be aggressive toward a
young handler at the rescue where she was kept briefly. She has some
contacts with other rescues, so there might be some help there.

"L" has met Muttley, and advised me about his training, and loaned me her
book "There Are No Bad Dogs". She felt that Muttley (and I) were under
stress at the obedience classes, and he was feeling frustrated, so he just
lashed out at the nearest critter. She felt that the class was moving too
rapidly, and Muttley was not ready for the more advanced commands. Perhaps
the "down" position was a bit too submissive for him to be comfortable with
in that setting.

"G" has not personally met Muttley, but has tried to find people to adopt
him by displaying the poster from www.smart.net/~pstech/Muttley3.doc. She
told me about a frightening experience with a large Chow dog that belonged
to her relatives. It became agitated in the presence of a crowd of new
people, and snapped at two of them, who avoided serious injury by quick
reflexes, but "G" tried to pet the dog, and he suddenly lunged and bit her
lip, requiring emergency surgery. Later, the dog attacked and killed a
neighbor's dog, and the Chow had to be put down. She recommended the same
for Muttley.

I have pretty much come to the conclusion that I need to find a better home
for him, because I don't think I can give him the environment he needs. I
don't think I can trust him with my cat, even if it seems like he is more
accepting of her, because he may just be waiting for a chance to get her
close enough to attack. He has been OK with meeting people and other dogs
while I have had control of him, but he may be hard to read. He has a
fairly aloof demeanor, even with me, but he seems to wag his tail when he
is happy and comfortable, and puts his tail down and cowers when he is
unsure. This was how he acted early in the summer, when I had someone help
work on my house. The man briefly met Muttley and petted him, but he seemed
to cower and was not fully comfortable. Then Muttley was very agitated, and
barked a lot when he made a lot of noise working on the house. When he
walked past him, Muttley took the opportunity to bite him in the seat of
his pants, which was painful but luckily not serious enough to need
treatment.

This will be a hard decision to make. I think he will be OK in the right
environment, but I know it is difficult to find homes for even very mild
mannered larger dogs. I don't know Muttley's early history, and he may have
been abused. His tail has been cut short, which may have been the result of
some sort of mayhem rather than a cosmetic procedure. I enjoy Muttley's
company, but he is still hard to handle. It takes most of my strength to
hold him back when he sees a squirrel or deer and wants to give chase. He
has also barked fairly aggressively at someone walking by on the road, and
I don't know what he might have done if he managed to break loose. For my
own sanity and liability, I know it will be necessary to end the present
situation soon. As I write this, Muttley is quietly snoozing on my bed, and
he sleeps with me almost every night. He has been a good companion, and he
would probably be a good protector if I were threatened, but his
unpredictability and sudden aggression without warning are major concerns.
I would appreciate input from some of you who have attempted to help in the
past, by recommending obedience classes and other things, as well as from
those who may have had to deal with similar situations.

As a brief final summary of his history, I offer the following. In early
Fevruary, my friend "H" found Muttley along with three other dogs running
loose and abandoned in a poor neighborhood in downtown Baltimore. She was
able to give the dogs some food and gained their trust, and physically took
two of them to shelters. The remaining two, Muttley, and his "girlfriend",
a pregnant black Rottie, were taken by animal control to the city Pound. We
were able to get them out before they were put down, and took them to
various shelters. Muttley was neutered, and I was volunteered to transport
him to the SPCA where he was to be put into their no kill adoption program.
However, they had received an overload of Katrina refugees, and told me
that he would be euthanized if I released him to them. I quickly made
arrangements to keep him temporarily at my house, and it was very difficult
for a long time, trying to contain him in an outdoor kennel, keeping him
tied up outside with minimal shelter while I had to be gone, dealing with
his aggressiveness toward my cat, and getting discouraged about frequent
indoor peeing and chewing on things. However, by mid-summer, he seemed to
mellow out, and gradually I was able to trust him with free run inside the
house for 8-10 hours. He also seemed more tolerant of my cat Photon. Janet
had offered free obedience training for him, but I was overwhelmed with
many ongoing and new projects, as well as a difficult experience with
fleas. Finally, however, I made the effort and commitment to take him to
classes, and all seemed OK for the first couple of weeks. I was becoming
more confident that I might be able to keep him, or at least have a better
chance of finding a good home. Then, two weeks ago, he showed the first
major sign of unprovoked aggression, followed by the most recent, more
serious incident.

I am not trying to find fault or put blame on anyone for what has happened,
but I really have not been able to work with Muttley as much as I should
with the training classes, and they have been stressful to us both, because
of other responsibilities that I have had to attend to, as well as knee and
back problems that make it difficult for me to give him the exercise and
training that he really needs. Maybe it was good that the obedience classes
exposed a potentially dangerous problem, or perhaps they just caused undue
stress that made training difficult. I just wanted to present this entire
situation from my viewpoint, knowing full well that others will have
differing ideas. In the end, I must make my own decision, but I will
appreciate any help. After all, this is a matter of Life or Death.

Paul

My 2nd Sheltie was attacked last summer by a Dalmation. She was
literally ripped apart. It took 2 grown men to pull that beast off my
baby. She went through 6 hours of surgery and then skin grafts later.

The Dal came from 3 blocks away. She was on a leash, being held by a
boy, who was dragged on the asphalt until he finally couldn't hold on
anymore. He witnessed this attack, as did my mother, who was walking
my sweet girl that day when I was out of town. The owner had the dog
for a week. She adopted the dog from a kennel only a week before. She
was told only "we prefer to adopt the dog into a home with no other
pets." Long story short, we later learned the Dal had viciously
attacked 2 other dogs, killed one, with no provocation before ending up
back at the kennel. The owner who had her when she attacked (AND
KILLED) before took her to a trainer who specializes in aggressive
dogs. The trainer worked with her and determined she should be
euthanized. The owner "couldn't bear it" and my dear, sweet dog is
FOREVER changed because of it.

The Dal was put down that day. Had she not been, I would have shot her
myself. My dog, Isabel, now lives with my mother because she is
terrified of other dogs, even my sweet little beagle mix, Roxy. Isabel
won't even go on walks anymore. Her life is forever changed. How are
you going to feel if that lab puppy has a similar future? Look at
these photos:

This is Izzy before her attack, a beautiful, happy, outgoing dog
http://fototime.com/72DF53FE6FC3721/orig.jpg

This is what that Dal did to my baby
http://fototime.com/AB02A51E50E676B/standard.jpg

You can't even see the wounds on her belly. Izzy LAID DOWN AND EXPOSED
HER BELLY TO THIS DOG. She went through hell
http://fototime.com/900C50516ED0C8E/standard.jpg

I'm sure you are very fond of this dog, but that doesn't make this dog
adoptable. If someone was to adopt him, with his history, he would be
required in my state to be kept behind a 8 foot fence at all times, and
muzzled when transported anywhere outside of that fence. Who the hell
wants a dog that dangerous? Who do you think is going to want to take
on that kind of risk?

Euthanize him.

Honestly, had I been present when that Dal attacked my girl, I would
have probably been arrested for my response at the scene. If your dog
lived near me, I'd be blind with rage.

"Paul E. Schoen" wrote:
This will be a hard decision to make.

No, it's pretty much only one responsible, viable option. The
followthrough is the hard part. Guess what? It's *always* hard to
euthanize a dog, or a cat, or a horse, or any creature that is totally
dependent on you for their quality of life, no matter how clear-cut the
decision is.

You've discovered that good deeds aren't always easy, or simple, or
inevitably get a happy outcome. That's a hard lesson, and I'm sorry you've
had to learn it with Muttley.

I've lived with an aggressive dog. An aggressive, fearful dog who'd bite
without warning or provocation. A dog that bit his owner because she
thwarted him. He was a fun dog 95% of the time, and scary beyond belief
the other 5%.

We managed him for years by never letting him interact with anyone outside
the house. EVER. He didn't go on walks. He didn't spend much time in the
yard, even while supervised. He didn't spend time in the evenings with his
owner. He lived in one room for 12 of his 14 years, and was terrified of
anything new, or different, or any change in his routine.

If he'd been my dog, I'd have released him from that perpetual terror long
before his owner chose to do so.

It's rotten, and it sucks, and it's the right thing to do. You've given
Muttley a good 6+ months that he'd never have gotten otherwise. Please
don't put other people and their dogs at risk.

"Janet B" wrote in message
...

snipped

You brought Muttley to meet me a few months ago, while classes were
coming and going and other dogs were around. I didn't see anything
overtly aggressive about him, and you didn't mention anything. I take
dog aggressive dogs in class, and take extra precautions when I know
they are. Muttley acts without any warning, although I know something
is there, but it's very subtle and I have not been the one handling
him during these episodes. He had been calmly sitting at heel both
times he exhibited behavior.

Stable dogs do NOT react to "stress" this way. There has been nothing
out of the ordinary asked for in these classes.

You're the professional, and I am certainly not. But it sounds like Muttley
was resource guarding. He attacked the closest dog, if I'm not mistaken,
and a dog that had been close physically to he and Paul for a while - that
day and several other classes (?). Paul belongs to Muttley, in the dog's
mind. He's got a strong enough human-bite inhibition not to go for the
person with the Lab, but he was gonna get that dog and give him a lesson for
intruding on his territory.

I have owned many a dog-aggressive and resource-guarding dog, and that's
what this sounds like to me. This would also explain why he was all right
at first, before the dogs were "familiar" to him and he thought they were
intruding.

Bit the repairman because he was afraid, IMO. I would never have let anyone
pet a dog of mine that appeared to be cowering away from them. Sounds like
a "You're retreating, and I'm gonna make you retreat quicker" kind of bite.

Many dog bites are the result of human error.

As you should be. The rescue organization that you are fostering him
for should be making this decision based on facts rather than
emotions. The dog is dangerous unless in very skilled hands. Placing
him is not a reasonable option. Period.

If it were up to me, I'd have him put down. He isn't adoptable.

It was very kind of Paul to help in this way. I think he has done
heroically, all things considered.

flick 100785