I was waiting for my daughters to get out of dance class today and
overheard a woman asking another about her puppy. Second Woman
responded that they didn't have the dog any more because it had grown
much bigger than it was supposed to and was "mean to the kids." She
had bought it at a pet store, who had charged her 350 dollars for what
was labeled a chihuahua mix and was supposed to only get to be 8-10
pounds. Her daughter piped up to tell the other woman that they were
going to get two puppies for Christmas. The woman explained that they
wanted their next dog to have a playmate. I had to interrupt at that
point, as you might imagine. After explaining some things about pet
store puppies and raising two puppies at the same time, I offered to
help the woman find a good dog in rescue that was good with kids and
housetrained if she decided she wanted another dog and if that worked
out, to help her find a dog to add to the family a year or two down
the line.

Another woman piped in to say that she was very happy with the dog
that she got from a local rescue. She was especially happy that they
let you return the dog if it didn't work out. The first dog they got
was not good because "you know, the kids would pull on its feet as it
went up the stairs and stuff like that that kids do and the dog would
turn around and bite them!" (exact quote with shocked emphasis on the
dog biting when kids do things like pull them out from under their
feet as they are going up the stairs) But the next dog they got from
that rescue was "great with kids!" I wonder if she told the rescue
the whole story for the return. I wonder if the first woman will end
up with Christmas puppies because they are so cute. I wonder if I
should wear earplugs to the dance studio so I just don't hear these
kinds of conversations.

--
Paula
"Anyway, other people are weird, but sometimes they have candy,
so it's best to try to get along with them." Joe Bay

Paula wrote:
I was waiting for my daughters to get out of dance class today and
overheard a woman asking another about her puppy. Second Woman
responded that they didn't have the dog any more because it had grown
much bigger than it was supposed to and was "mean to the kids." She
had bought it at a pet store, who had charged her 350 dollars for what
was labeled a chihuahua mix and was supposed to only get to be 8-10
pounds. Her daughter piped up to tell the other woman that they were
going to get two puppies for Christmas. The woman explained that they
wanted their next dog to have a playmate. I had to interrupt at that
point, as you might imagine. After explaining some things about pet
store puppies and raising two puppies at the same time, I offered to
help the woman find a good dog in rescue that was good with kids and
housetrained if she decided she wanted another dog and if that worked
out, to help her find a dog to add to the family a year or two down
the line.

Another woman piped in to say that she was very happy with the dog
that she got from a local rescue. She was especially happy that they
let you return the dog if it didn't work out. The first dog they got
was not good because "you know, the kids would pull on its feet as it
went up the stairs and stuff like that that kids do and the dog would
turn around and bite them!" (exact quote with shocked emphasis on the
dog biting when kids do things like pull them out from under their
feet as they are going up the stairs) But the next dog they got from
that rescue was "great with kids!" I wonder if she told the rescue
the whole story for the return. I wonder if the first woman will end
up with Christmas puppies because they are so cute. I wonder if I
should wear earplugs to the dance studio so I just don't hear these
kinds of conversations.

--
Paula
"Anyway, other people are weird, but sometimes they have candy,
so it's best to try to get along with them." Joe Bay

Several years ago, my neighbors got a Jack Russel Terrier puppy. One
night, the pup escaped their fence and they found her the next day dead
in a culvert. She wasn't hit by a car, she probably died of
hypothermia. Within a week, they had another JRT. They started
chaining her in the back yard when they couldn't be with her so she
wouldn't escape. Aside from that, they were very good to her. She was
indoors most of the time and the kids played with her. She is now 2
years old.

Last weekend they gave her away. The wife decided they don't have time
for her. The husband and kids were not happy about this, but mama
rules the roost. Now she wants another dog, but a "lap dog."
Basically a dog who doesn't require too much energy or attention
apparently. So they are looking at other small terriers...

I have had several talks with the husband about this situation. I
can't help myself. We have discussed various breeds and the need to
research them. I've also talked to him about rescue and all the
wonderful dogs available. He would love to go that route and find a
grown dog who has been fully temperament tested, housebroken and who
would fit their lifestyle, but he has absolutely no say in the matter.

Argh!

Paula wrote:

The first dog they got
was not good because "you know, the kids would pull on its feet as it
went up the stairs and stuff like that that kids do and the dog would
turn around and bite them!"

Jeebus! Personally, I'd be returning the kids, because they are dog
aggressive.

I wonder if she told the rescue
the whole story for the return.

If she was dumb enough to think it was a reasonable excuse for
returning a dog, she was probably dumb enough to tell the rescue
group. Unfortunately, rescues vary hugely in their level of
responsible-ness.

I wonder if the first woman will end
up with Christmas puppies because they are so cute. I wonder if I
should wear earplugs to the dance studio so I just don't hear these
kinds of conversations.

I feel your pain. I have a coworker who got a Jack puppy from a
local pet shop. She sees no problem with buying pet shop dogs. At
this point, I just try not to discuss anything dog-related with her.

I will say, though, that the pup is now three years old and, though
a bit of a pain in the arse at times, has never been in danger of
being dumped. He's one of the lucky ones.

--
Shelly (Warning: see label for details)
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)

Paula wrote:
I was waiting for my daughters to get out of dance class today and
overheard a woman asking another about her puppy. Second Woman
responded that they didn't have the dog any more because it had grown
much bigger than it was supposed to and was "mean to the kids." She
had bought it at a pet store, who had charged her 350 dollars for what
was labeled a chihuahua mix and was supposed to only get to be 8-10
pounds. Her daughter piped up to tell the other woman that they were
going to get two puppies for Christmas. The woman explained that they
wanted their next dog to have a playmate. I had to interrupt at that
point, as you might imagine. After explaining some things about pet
store puppies and raising two puppies at the same time, I offered to
help the woman find a good dog in rescue that was good with kids and
housetrained if she decided she wanted another dog and if that worked
out, to help her find a dog to add to the family a year or two down
the line.

Another woman piped in to say that she was very happy with the dog
that she got from a local rescue. She was especially happy that they
let you return the dog if it didn't work out. The first dog they got
was not good because "you know, the kids would pull on its feet as it
went up the stairs and stuff like that that kids do and the dog would
turn around and bite them!" (exact quote with shocked emphasis on the
dog biting when kids do things like pull them out from under their
feet as they are going up the stairs) But the next dog they got from
that rescue was "great with kids!" I wonder if she told the rescue
the whole story for the return. I wonder if the first woman will end
up with Christmas puppies because they are so cute. I wonder if I
should wear earplugs to the dance studio so I just don't hear these
kinds of conversations.

--
Paula
"Anyway, other people are weird, but sometimes they have candy,
so it's best to try to get along with them." Joe Bay


I usually try to snip to appropriate parts, but I couldn't decide on
that for this. It is so reminding me of my visit to the vet yesterday.
As I'm waiting with Trip, annual checkup, I hear one of the other vets
telling some people what their "registered maltipoo" will most likely
look like. I thought I could detect a hint of sarcasm with the
"registered maltipoo" comment.
Then as I was waiting to pay, there was a young woman with a brindle
pit bull puppy. The woman sitting near her, holding a spitzy looking
thing asked what kind of puppy. No lie: " I bet your neighbors aren't
happy." "My neighbors like all of my pits." "Well, I'm glad I don't
live in your neighborhood." "I'm glad you don't either."
I had to go over and ask if I could pet the viscious killer puppy.
Young woman looked a bit surprised until I told her that I have
shepherds and go through the same thing.
Paula, you wear earplugs at the dance studio and I'll wear 'em at the
vet.

Beth

" wrote in message:

I usually try to snip to appropriate parts, but I couldn't decide on
that for this. It is so reminding me of my visit to the vet yesterday.

You brought up the vet, and it reminds me. I had mentioned the dumbass
receptionist with a GSD before. Anyway, while we were waiting to pay for
Pan's visit (I practically live there now, it seems), a lady came in with a
dog, and when I mentioned that my dogs were friendly, allowed everyone to
sniff. Then she said ' watch out for the blood', and I asked if her bitch
was in heat. Nope, she was attacked by her other dog, and it happens on a
'regular basis' (sounds like displacement behavior). This time, he got her
ear and tore it. Poor pup, so sweet and so friendly.

At this point, the guy at the reception piped up about his dog, and how she
goes ballistic over anything that walks by their house, and how she'd turn
around and bite the nearest thing, including people, when she's in a frenzy.
Then he said that he wants to get another dog, a Harlequin Dane just like
Pan. When I told him that she's a Mantle, he said okay, then a Harlequin or
a Mantle. He asked me if she has any health problems, and I told him about
her hips. Then he asked if they have a lot of problems in general. I
informed him about CHD, Wobblers, DCM and other ortho stuff. Hmm... maybe
it's better not to get a Dane. Somewhere along the way, the other
receptionist said that our records show that Pan is not UTD on her shots,
and I mentioned that I titer instead of giving the dogs vaccines that they
don't really need. He piped up that since shots are free for them since he
works there, his dog gets 'every shot invented and then some'. At that
point, I mumbled something about vaccinosis, grabbed my receipt and fled.

Paula, you wear earplugs at the dance studio and I'll wear 'em at the
vet.

I think I need to get some earplugs myself.

Suja

shelly said in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

I feel your pain. I have a coworker who got a Jack puppy
from a local pet shop.

I could go on and on (I've lost more than one potential client,
I think, by going on and on), but I picked up some refreshing
clients recently.

Their first Chi was from a pet store. Their second wasn't.
They'd learned about the dark side of pet stores and had
rigorously researched their to-be second dog.

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

On Thu, 12 Oct 2006 08:58:11 -0400, shelly
wrote:

Paula wrote:

The first dog they got
was not good because "you know, the kids would pull on its feet as it
went up the stairs and stuff like that that kids do and the dog would
turn around and bite them!"

Jeebus! Personally, I'd be returning the kids, because they are dog
aggressive.

Mimi wasn't even walking when we got our first dog and she has never
ever done anything like that to any dog in our house or elsewhere and
wouldn't even dream of it. If you can't show your kids that they have
to be gentle and respectful of the puppy, you shouldn't have a dog.
You certainly shouldn't be shocked if the dog tries to defend itself
and get away from them any way it can. I'm glad they blamed the dog,
though, to some extent, because it meant the dog got returned and got
to get the hell out of there.

We were at the pet store while we waited for our pizza tonight (pet
store is next door to pizza place). Anna fell in love with a
cockatiel. She has it named and everything. It remained at the pet
store. But I was impressed at how she treated it and how it was
happily sitting on her shoulder preening her hair and wanting to go
home with her within minutes of her picking it up. I would not
tolerate a kid who made animals afraid of kids like so many of them
end up being.

--
Paula
"Anyway, other people are weird, but sometimes they have candy,
so it's best to try to get along with them." Joe Bay

Paula wrote:

Mimi wasn't even walking when we got our first dog and she has never
ever done anything like that to any dog in our house or elsewhere and
wouldn't even dream of it. If you can't show your kids that they have
to be gentle and respectful of the puppy, you shouldn't have a dog.

That seems reasonable enough to me!

You certainly shouldn't be shocked if the dog tries to defend itself
and get away from them any way it can. I'm glad they blamed the dog,
though, to some extent, because it meant the dog got returned and got
to get the hell out of there.

True. Hopefully, the rescue group was more careful about the next
home they placed it in, though the fact that they let the family
have another dog doesn't inspire confidence.

We were at the pet store while we waited for our pizza tonight (pet
store is next door to pizza place). Anna fell in love with a
cockatiel. She has it named and everything. It remained at the pet
store. But I was impressed at how she treated it and how it was
happily sitting on her shoulder preening her hair and wanting to go
home with her within minutes of her picking it up.

A friend of mine recommends "falling in love with an idea" for a
day. Pretend you've made the decision to do X, and spend a day
exploring the impact on your life. That way, you can really try it
on and see how it fits, before you commit yourself either way.
Anna's adventure with the cockatiel remind me of that.

I would not
tolerate a kid who made animals afraid of kids like so many of them
end up being.

I sure don't think there's any excuse for it. It's not like it's
difficult to teach kids to respect animals. My experience is that
kids want animals to like them, so building on their desire for
friendship is actually pretty easy.

--
Shelly (Warning: see label for details)
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)

"shelly" wrote in message
...
Jeebus! Personally, I'd be returning the kids, because they are dog
aggressive.

I just shake my head at most of the questions about kid-friendly breeds and
how to make it work when you have kids and dogs together.

While I realize that there are breeds that are more tolerant than others and
there is certainly a wide span of individual tolerances among dogs in
general, it honestly was nothing that I ever considered when there were
small children in my life.

I just expected that the children would respect the dog's needs. And they
were supervised until that behavior could be reasonably assured. I was much
more concerned with training the kids than the dog - not that I wouldn't
make an effort to keep the dog from, say, considering running toddlers as
prey to be chased.

When my daughter was growing up, we and our friends (who had like-aged
children) had every type of dog imaginable - from beagles to GSD/chow mixes
to boxers to rottweilers to retrievers to poodles to setters to coonhounds
to terriers to spaniels. And most of us had cats at the same time. There
was never a dog that had to be taken out of the household because of any
level of aggression toward the children. The kids were trained.

It seems to me that we want children to respect others' needs - even when
they run counter to their own. Not only should they not pull on the dog's
ears, they should not run and jump on the bed with Grandma unless they are
invited. They should not be pulling on the dog's feet on the stairs any
more than they should be trying to trip Grandpa with his cane.

Nowadays (boy do I feel old when I say this) kids are being raised to be
completely self-centered and rude. Pulling on a dog's feet on the stairs is
just the tip of the iceberg.

Judy

On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 07:00:25 -0400, shelly
wrote:


A friend of mine recommends "falling in love with an idea" for a
day. Pretend you've made the decision to do X, and spend a day
exploring the impact on your life. That way, you can really try it
on and see how it fits, before you commit yourself either way.
Anna's adventure with the cockatiel remind me of that.

She is thinking she is going to go back today and buy him. It's her
money and she is responsible for her own pets, so I'm fine with that.
I wouldn't let her impulse buy yesterday, though, because I want my
kids to understand that taking on responsibility for a life is a
serious thing and shouldn't ever be done lightly.

I would not
tolerate a kid who made animals afraid of kids like so many of them
end up being.

I sure don't think there's any excuse for it. It's not like it's
difficult to teach kids to respect animals. My experience is that
kids want animals to like them, so building on their desire for
friendship is actually pretty easy.

One of the things I told my kids and tell other kids is that a lot of
animals get scared of kids because some kids were mean to them, but if
they can be nice to them and gentle with them, the animal will learn
to love kids because they will have taught it that kids are nice and
fun. It really seems to click when they realize they have the power
to determine how the dogs sees them and other kids.


--
Paula
"Anyway, other people are weird, but sometimes they have candy,
so it's best to try to get along with them." Joe Bay