Okay, I shouldn't have, but my curiosity got the better of me, so I
took a little stroll down AOL Moonbat Lane.

And I found this little ditty over there. It was written by our old
buddy, "Ronna" (aka "Dogstar") of course, but I think it really serves
as a good example of the kind of veracity, ignorance and self-delusion
that permeates that place. It would probably make a very fertile
recruiting ground for new Scientologists.

Here it is:

"**Well, let me warn you. The board is dominated by some snooty
breeders and trainers, some pet owners who brown nose the snooty
breeders and trainer, who is a drunk and will immediately start
calling you names if you even mention PR or clicker training, and will
respond to every post you make to him, never stopping with the name
calling **"

Amazing stuff.

So, please allow me to fisk this little piece of tripe, and also
invite Ronna to reply to it. She's apparently lurking out there
somewhere, eh? Maybe on the same planet where L. Ron Hubbard is
thought to be lurking?

1. "The board is dominated by some snooty breeders and trainers, some
pet owners who brown nose the snooty breeders and trainer"

First, this "board" isn't dominated by anyone, "snotty" or otherwise.
Chaos rules the day here, and that's the way most of the regulars like
it. It's unruly, it's unmoderated, its downright uncivil at times, but
it invites and welcomes all comers, provided they take criticism as
well as they offer it. No one gets a free pass, and no topics are
prohibited, provided they relate to dogs, specifically dog *behavior.*

2. "and one dude called Handsome Jack Morrison who is an old hunting
Lab trainer who worships Koehler and Cesar and old style training"

This one isn't really close enough to win a cigar, either. Yes, I'm
an "old hunting Lab trainer," but I most certainly don't worship *any*
trainer, and certainly not Koehler or Cesar Millan (who isn't even a
trainer). What I do, however, is frequently defend them against
scurrilous and malicious attacks (because they aren't here to defend
themselves) by people with an agenda, like Ronna, who is one of the
most narrow-minded, bellicose, self-righteous, and ignorant trainers
I've ever encountered anywhere. Additionally, I don't worship "old
style training," either. I do, however, consider myself primarily a
traditional trainer, but I mostly use the e-collar these days, perhaps
the most modern and humane way to train a dog that's ever been
developed. Nope, there's nothing "old style" about modern e-collar
training.

3. "who is a drunk"

I drink 1-2 glasses of wine with my evening meal. I also drink maybe
3-4 beers on most week-ends, especially if I'm watching some game on
TV. I'll have maybe a scotch and water or two at a social function.
And if that makes me a drunk, well, then there must be a whole bunch
of drunks in this world!

4. "calling you names if you even mention PR or clicker training"

This, of course, it totally false, because I'm a *huge* proponent of
positive reinforcement and clicker training. However, unlike Ronna,
who's a one-trick pony if I've ever seen one, I'm also a proponent of
other kinds of training, e.g. traditional training, e-collar training,
etc. I'm a proponent of any kind of dog-training that most easily and
effectively gets a particular dog owner, and his dog, to where he
wants to go. Be that a well-mannered pet, or a retriever Field
Champion, and everywhere in between. I.e., different strokes for
different folks.

5. "and will respond to every post you make to him"

I'm not sure why Ronna thinks this is a bad thing, but then again, my
brain just doesn't work like Ronna's. Yes, I try to respond to every
post that's made to me (and to some that aren't made to me), because
that's what Usenet is all about, and what people generally expect when
they post to me - a response. I wonder what must go through Ronna's
little brain when *she* makes a post? "Gee, I hope no one responds."
Apparently she prefers monologues to dialogues? Who knows. Figuring
out Ronna is a lot like trying to figure out Kim Jong Il, and, trust
me, we should feel really lucky that Ronna doesn't have nukes, too.

6. "never stopping with the name calling **"

Another falsehood. I eventually stop. Moreover, I generally don't even
start with the name-calling until someone else has called me a name,
insulted me, lied about me, etc. Like being called a drunk by Ronna,
for example. Or having her lie about my attitude regarding positive
reinforcement, etc. Or that I immediately call someone names merely
for mentioning the words "positive reinforcement." Treating me just
like you would like to be treated will generally get you the results
you're looking for.

Come on Ronna, speak up! Don't make me come over there...

Heh.

PS: I would rather climb around in a cave in Afghanistan, armed only
with a butter knife, than to ever allow someone like Ronna to get
anywhere near one of *my* dogs. YMMV.

PSS: If any of you other AOLers are out there lurking (Lauralyn?),
feel free to dive right in and defend Ronna, but please try to do it
by using facts and the truth, not just empty rhetoric, lies,
distortions, etc. (a la Ronna). Otherwise you might not like the
response you get.



--
Handsome Jack Morrison

Want to help our service men and women, and their families? (The ladies here will like this! Okay, maybe Melinda won't.):
http://freedomisnotfree.com/

The veil and the rage.
http://michellemalkin.com/archives/006104.htm

Bill Clinton's New Glow Job:
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=17502

Mary Robinson finally finds a clue:
http://instapundit.com/archives/033153.php

Think the idea of *Speaker* Pelosi is scary? Then check *this* out:
http://english.pravda.ru/science/earth/84913-0/

It's China, stupid!
http://www.windsofchange.net/archives/009113.php

Wanna see what a real buffoon looks like?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3J-mUwkmw-M

Trust me - you'll want to see (and hear!) this movie trailer:
http://www.apple.com/trailers/wb/300...er1/large.html

Two books that every American (and Canadian) should read:

1) The Rage and The Pride, by Orianna Fallaci
http://makeashorterlink.com/?J13521A6D
2) The Force of Reason, by Orianna Fallaci
http://makeashorterlink.com/?T42552A6D

While they still can.

And this one, too:

Menace in Europe: Why the Continent's Crisis Is America's, Too
http://www.amazon.com/gp/explorer/14...05868-3710311?

Handsome Jack Morrison wrote:
PS: I would rather climb around in a cave in Afghanistan, armed only
with a butter knife, than to ever allow someone like Ronna to get
anywhere near one of *my* dogs. YMMV.

PSS: If any of you other AOLers are out there lurking (Lauralyn?),
feel free to dive right in and defend Ronna, but please try to do it
by using facts and the truth, not just empty rhetoric, lies,
distortions, etc. (a la Ronna). Otherwise you might not like the
response you get.


No worth it, really. Already been this round with Janet who came here
and flat out lied about we were saying. You don't like Ronna, obviously
she doesn't like you. Somehow I don't think that's some big revelation,
lol. BTW, I'd let Ronna work with my dogs any time. I've met both her
and her dogs and we have very much the same training philosophy and
training techniques. But, please, feel free to post what you did on
AOL.

Lauralyn

In article . com,
Agility wrote:
Already been this round with Janet who came here
and flat out lied about we were saying.

I HEART people who follow others around the internet to
snipe at them! You make the world a better place fer sher!
You seem like a really SPECIAL person!!

E-HUGS!!!
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

The Free Enterprise Action Fund, a GOP mutual fund, is
underperforming the S&P 500 by about 40%.

On 13 Oct 2006 13:46:13 -0700, "Agility" wrote:


Handsome Jack Morrison wrote:
PS: I would rather climb around in a cave in Afghanistan, armed only
with a butter knife, than to ever allow someone like Ronna to get
anywhere near one of *my* dogs. YMMV.

PSS: If any of you other AOLers are out there lurking (Lauralyn?),
feel free to dive right in and defend Ronna, but please try to do it
by using facts and the truth, not just empty rhetoric, lies,
distortions, etc. (a la Ronna). Otherwise you might not like the
response you get.

No worth it, really.

Then what? You don't really care about the truth?

Already been this round with Janet who came here
and flat out lied about we were saying.

This isn't about Janet, but I've never known Janet to lie.

This is about Ronna, and about Ronna's many lies.

You don't like Ronna,

No, I don't like Ronna.

Would you like someone who lied about you, called you a drunk, etc?

obviously
she doesn't like you.

Obviously.

Somehow I don't think that's some big revelation,
lol.

No, it isn't.

BTW, I'd let Ronna work with my dogs any time.

Well, you're welcome to do that, of course, but I wouldn't.

I won't be inviting her over for dinner anytime soon, either.

I've met both her
and her dogs and we have very much the same training philosophy and
training techniques.

Let me be perfectly clear here. I have no problem with her training
philosophy or her training techniques, to the extent that I know
anything about them. But Ronna keeps a lot of it close to the vest,
so I may not know everything.

What I have a problem with is all the lies, the gross distortions, the
insults, etc.

If her way, or your way, for that matter, is so great, wouldn't you
just need to talk about how *you* would do something, rather than
always disparage how someone else might choose to do it?

Are you anything like Ronna in *that* regard?

But, please, feel free to post what you did on
AOL.

I intend to, Lauralyn, as soon a they allow me to sign on and *make*
posts. I've been trying for several hours now. AOL is apparently
having "technical difficulties" in that regard (which is why I left
AOL many moons ago - they *always* have technical difficulties), so
I'm frozen out at the present time. Feel free to invite all your bros
over *here,* too. The more the merrier!

But I'll be over there as soon as possible. It'll be fun, right?

As some folks like to say, you can run, but you can't hide.

Heh.

--
Handsome Jack Morrison

Want to help our service men and women, and their families? (The ladies here will like this! Okay, maybe Melinda won't.):
http://freedomisnotfree.com/

The veil and the rage.
http://michellemalkin.com/archives/006104.htm

Bill Clinton's New Glow Job:
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=17502

Mary Robinson finally finds a clue:
http://instapundit.com/archives/033153.php

Think the idea of *Speaker* Pelosi is scary? Then check *this* out:
http://english.pravda.ru/science/earth/84913-0/

It's China, stupid!
http://www.windsofchange.net/archives/009113.php

Wanna see what a real buffoon looks like?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3J-mUwkmw-M

Trust me - you'll want to see (and hear!) this movie trailer:
http://www.apple.com/trailers/wb/300...er1/large.html

Two books that every American (and Canadian) should read:

1) The Rage and The Pride, by Orianna Fallaci
http://makeashorterlink.com/?J13521A6D
2) The Force of Reason, by Orianna Fallaci
http://makeashorterlink.com/?T42552A6D

While they still can.

And this one, too:

Menace in Europe: Why the Continent's Crisis Is America's, Too
http://www.amazon.com/gp/explorer/14...05868-3710311?

Handsome Jack Morrison wrote:

I'm not sure why Ronna thinks this is a bad thing, but then again, my
brain just doesn't work like Ronna's.

Yeah, your brain works.

BTW, I'm guessing that Ronna is one of those that think you're Dogman.
If you are, so be it. But he drank Booker's and isn't that bourbon not
scotch?

Beth

On 13 Oct 2006 16:59:30 -0700, "
wrote:

Handsome Jack Morrison wrote:

I'm not sure why Ronna thinks this is a bad thing, but then again, my
brain just doesn't work like Ronna's.

Yeah, your brain works.

BTW, I'm guessing that Ronna is one of those that think you're Dogman.

Beth, for the sake of argument, lets say that I *am* Dogman (even
though I'm not).

Now, what would that have to do with Ronna's claims that this place is
dominated by snooty breeders and trainers, that I'm a drunk, that I
will immediately call people names if they merely mention PR and
clicker training, that I "worship" Koehler and CM, that I will respond
to every post someone makes to me, etc?

Dogman has never been a drunk. He *loves* PR as much as anyone alive.
Yes, he defends Koehler, too. And for the same reasons. CM wasn't
around when Dogman was here, but he'd probably be defending CM today,
too.

All of this can be easily verified by Googling for it. Is Ronna not
even smart enough to know that?

If you are, so be it. But he drank Booker's and isn't that bourbon not
scotch?

Yes, it's bourbon. But what does having a preference for bourbon have
to do with being a drunk?

I just don't get it.

Like I said before, my brain just doesn't work like Ronna's.

Thank God.

--
Handsome Jack Morrison

Want to help our service men and women, and their families? (The ladies here will like this! Okay, maybe Melinda won't.):
http://freedomisnotfree.com/

The veil and the rage.
http://michellemalkin.com/archives/006104.htm

Bill Clinton's New Glow Job:
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=17502

Mary Robinson finally finds a clue:
http://instapundit.com/archives/033153.php

Think the idea of *Speaker* Pelosi is scary? Then check *this* out:
http://english.pravda.ru/science/earth/84913-0/

It's China, stupid!
http://www.windsofchange.net/archives/009113.php

Wanna see what a real buffoon looks like?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3J-mUwkmw-M

Trust me - you'll want to see (and hear!) this movie trailer:
http://www.apple.com/trailers/wb/300...er1/large.html

Two books that every American (and Canadian) should read:

1) The Rage and The Pride, by Orianna Fallaci
http://makeashorterlink.com/?J13521A6D
2) The Force of Reason, by Orianna Fallaci
http://makeashorterlink.com/?T42552A6D

While they still can.

And this one, too:

Menace in Europe: Why the Continent's Crisis Is America's, Too
http://www.amazon.com/gp/explorer/14...05868-3710311?

Handsome Jack Morrison wrote:
On 13 Oct 2006 16:59:30 -0700, "
wrote:

Handsome Jack Morrison wrote:

I'm not sure why Ronna thinks this is a bad thing, but then again, my
brain just doesn't work like Ronna's.

Yeah, your brain works.

BTW, I'm guessing that Ronna is one of those that think you're Dogman.

Beth, for the sake of argument, lets say that I *am* Dogman (even
though I'm not).

Now, what would that have to do with Ronna's claims that this place is
dominated by snooty breeders and trainers, that I'm a drunk, that I
will immediately call people names if they merely mention PR and
clicker training, that I "worship" Koehler and CM, that I will respond
to every post someone makes to me, etc?

I could make some guesses about what sort of drugs Ronna did in her
youth. Some of them can cause horrible flashbacks later in life.

Dogman has never been a drunk. He *loves* PR as much as anyone alive.
Yes, he defends Koehler, too. And for the same reasons. CM wasn't
around when Dogman was here, but he'd probably be defending CM today,
too.

I just remember Dogman liking his Booker's. To some people that can't
drink in moderate liking some sort of alcohol = being a drunk.
I defend Koehler. And PR. I just wish people could look at the whole
picture. I'm fighting this battle with some of the powers that be in
my dog club so I'm usually too tired to do it here.

All of this can be easily verified by Googling for it. Is Ronna not
even smart enough to know that?

Um, remember the brain, or lack thereof.

If you are, so be it. But he drank Booker's and isn't that bourbon not
scotch?

Yes, it's bourbon. But what does having a preference for bourbon have
to do with being a drunk?

No,no! You drink scotch and Dogman drinks bourbon. (good man, that.)
Therefore you would not be Dogman.
Think you could switch Dogman over to Wild Turkey 101? That is my
favorite. I haven't had scotch since I was in high school. I didn't
like it then and don't know if I would now.

Beth

I just don't get it.

Like I said before, my brain just doesn't work like Ronna's.

Thank God.

--
Handsome Jack Morrison

Want to help our service men and women, and their families? (The ladies here will like this! Okay, maybe Melinda won't.):
http://freedomisnotfree.com/

The veil and the rage.
http://michellemalkin.com/archives/006104.htm

Bill Clinton's New Glow Job:
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=17502

Mary Robinson finally finds a clue:
http://instapundit.com/archives/033153.php

Think the idea of *Speaker* Pelosi is scary? Then check *this* out:
http://english.pravda.ru/science/earth/84913-0/

It's China, stupid!
http://www.windsofchange.net/archives/009113.php

Wanna see what a real buffoon looks like?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3J-mUwkmw-M

Trust me - you'll want to see (and hear!) this movie trailer:
http://www.apple.com/trailers/wb/300...er1/large.html

Two books that every American (and Canadian) should read:

1) The Rage and The Pride, by Orianna Fallaci
http://makeashorterlink.com/?J13521A6D
2) The Force of Reason, by Orianna Fallaci
http://makeashorterlink.com/?T42552A6D

While they still can.

And this one, too:

Menace in Europe: Why the Continent's Crisis Is America's, Too
http://www.amazon.com/gp/explorer/14...05868-3710311?

On 13 Oct 2006 17:25:37 -0700, "
wrote:

[]
Now, what would that have to do with Ronna's claims that this place is
dominated by snooty breeders and trainers, that I'm a drunk, that I
will immediately call people names if they merely mention PR and
clicker training, that I "worship" Koehler and CM, that I will respond
to every post someone makes to me, etc?

I could make some guesses about what sort of drugs Ronna did in her
youth. Some of them can cause horrible flashbacks later in life.

Maybe she's still doing them?

Dogman has never been a drunk. He *loves* PR as much as anyone alive.
Yes, he defends Koehler, too. And for the same reasons. CM wasn't
around when Dogman was here, but he'd probably be defending CM today,
too.

I just remember Dogman liking his Booker's. To some people that can't
drink in moderate liking some sort of alcohol = being a drunk.

Well, I guess I'm a drunk then. I like Macallan (12 year old) single
malt scotch.

I defend Koehler. And PR. I just wish people could look at the whole
picture. I'm fighting this battle with some of the powers that be in
my dog club so I'm usually too tired to do it here.

Yeah, it's an ongoing battle.

All of this can be easily verified by Googling for it. Is Ronna not
even smart enough to know that?

Um, remember the brain, or lack thereof.

Right. Does this mean that *all* the folks over on the AOL board are
druggies? Because they all sound alike. Like a bunch of PP
Stepford Wives.

If you are, so be it. But he drank Booker's and isn't that bourbon not
scotch?

Yes, it's bourbon. But what does having a preference for bourbon have
to do with being a drunk?

No,no! You drink scotch and Dogman drinks bourbon.

I was pretending to be Dogman.

(good man, that.)

Yes, he is a good man.

Therefore you would not be Dogman.

Well, I could. But I'm not.

Think you could switch Dogman over to Wild Turkey 101?

Are you buying? Then you probably could.

That is my
favorite. I haven't had scotch since I was in high school.

My favorite is the one the other guy is paying for.

I didn't
like it then and don't know if I would now.

It takes a while to build up a preference/tolerance for just about any
kind of booze. Take Seagram's VO, for example. You'd have to strap me
down in a chair with tow straps, and then use a turkey baster, to get
any of that *&^% down my throat.

shudder


--
Handsome Jack Morrison

Want to help our service men and women, and their families? (The ladies here will like this! Okay, maybe Melinda won't.):
http://freedomisnotfree.com/

The veil and the rage.
http://michellemalkin.com/archives/006104.htm

Bill Clinton's New Glow Job:
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=17502

Mary Robinson finally finds a clue:
http://instapundit.com/archives/033153.php

Think the idea of *Speaker* Pelosi is scary? Then check *this* out:
http://english.pravda.ru/science/earth/84913-0/

It's China, stupid!
http://www.windsofchange.net/archives/009113.php

Wanna see what a real buffoon looks like?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3J-mUwkmw-M

Trust me - you'll want to see (and hear!) this movie trailer:
http://www.apple.com/trailers/wb/300...er1/large.html

Two books that every American (and Canadian) should read:

1) The Rage and The Pride, by Orianna Fallaci
http://makeashorterlink.com/?J13521A6D
2) The Force of Reason, by Orianna Fallaci
http://makeashorterlink.com/?T42552A6D

While they still can.

And this one, too:

Menace in Europe: Why the Continent's Crisis Is America's, Too
http://www.amazon.com/gp/explorer/14...05868-3710311?

Handsome Jack Morrison wrote:
On 13 Oct 2006 13:46:13 -0700, "Agility" wrote:


Handsome Jack Morrison wrote:
PS: I would rather climb around in a cave in Afghanistan, armed only
with a butter knife, than to ever allow someone like Ronna to get
anywhere near one of *my* dogs. YMMV.

PSS: If any of you other AOLers are out there lurking (Lauralyn?),
feel free to dive right in and defend Ronna, but please try to do it
by using facts and the truth, not just empty rhetoric, lies,
distortions, etc. (a la Ronna). Otherwise you might not like the
response you get.

No worth it, really.

Then what? You don't really care about the truth?

Me: The truth about what? I can form my own opinions about someone.
Ronna can form her own. If you don't like her opinions then dispute
them or ignore them or whatever you want.

Already been this round with Janet who came here
and flat out lied about we were saying.

This isn't about Janet, but I've never known Janet to lie.

Me: Neither had I till I saw her posts about people telling Paul to
give the dog cookies and put him in head halter and all will be well.
She knows damn well no one ever said any such thing.

This is about Ronna, and about Ronna's many lies.

You don't like Ronna,

No, I don't like Ronna.

Would you like someone who lied about you, called you a drunk, etc?

Me: I've called things on a message board. Not really that big a deal,
it's a message board. Take the crap, ignore the crap, or fall for the
crap. It's your choice.

obviously
she doesn't like you.

Obviously.

Somehow I don't think that's some big revelation,
lol.

No, it isn't.

BTW, I'd let Ronna work with my dogs any time.

Well, you're welcome to do that, of course, but I wouldn't.

I won't be inviting her over for dinner anytime soon, either.

I've met both her
and her dogs and we have very much the same training philosophy and
training techniques.

Let me be perfectly clear here. I have no problem with her training
philosophy or her training techniques, to the extent that I know
anything about them. But Ronna keeps a lot of it close to the vest,
so I may not know everything.

Me: Actually she doesn't. I think she just post a whole lot here is
all. But don't keep up all that much with this board. I don't like the
format of internet message boards.

What I have a problem with is all the lies, the gross distortions, the
insults, etc.

If her way, or your way, for that matter, is so great, wouldn't you
just need to talk about how *you* would do something, rather than
always disparage how someone else might choose to do it?

Me: We do. We find it's Janet who rarely gives out actual advice. She
will not put herself out there. I do it all the time.

Are you anything like Ronna in *that* regard?

But, please, feel free to post what you did on
AOL.

I intend to, Lauralyn, as soon a they allow me to sign on and *make*
posts. I've been trying for several hours now. AOL is apparently
having "technical difficulties" in that regard (which is why I left
AOL many moons ago - they *always* have technical difficulties), so
I'm frozen out at the present time. Feel free to invite all your bros
over *here,* too. The more the merrier!

But I'll be over there as soon as possible. It'll be fun, right?

Me: Oh it will be a blast, lol.


Lauralyn

In article om,
Agility wrote:
Me: The truth about what? I can form my own opinions about someone.

Really? Let's see you give it a shot.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

The Free Enterprise Action Fund, a GOP mutual fund, is
underperforming the S&P 500 by about 40%.