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Old October 15th 06, 08:03 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior,alt.animals.dog,rec.pets.dogs.breeds,rec.pets.dogs.rescue,rec.pets.dogs.misc
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Posts: 35
Default Janet and AOL boards

HOWEDY tommy sorenson aka joey finnochiarrio aka
howie lipshitz aka gentleman jack morrison aka DOGMAN
aka "BIG DADDY", you anonymHOWES miserable
stinkin lyin pathetic animal child an SP-HOWES abusin
punk thug coward active acute chronic long term incurable
mental case and puppymiller / shock collar salesman / field
dog trainin FRAUD an SCAM ARTIST,

"Handsome Jack Morrison" wrote in
message ...
On 15 Oct 2006 11:09:47 -0400, (Melinda Shore) wrote:

In article ,
Shelly wrote:
*boggle* So, did you not have sufficient opportunity, in over 200
*pages* of posts on the AOL board, to scold Janet?


The rpdb regulars who went over to AOL to
argue about all this aren't any better.


Correction:

The only rpdb regular "who went over there" was me.

Not to scold them about Janet.

But to defend *myself* against Ronna's false and
malicious comments about yours truly.


You're a miserable stinkin lyin animal an child
abusin punk thug coward active acute chronic
long term incurable mental case, tommy.

Period.


Yeah. All we gotta dog is LOOK UP your own POSTED
CASE HISTORY under your false name of DOGMAN.

I can't imagine any good outcomethat's plausible


INDEEDY. That'd pretty well DISCREDIT you.

WOULDN'T IT, tommy {} ; ~ )

or any plausible outcome that's good.


EXXXCEPT for you to get the heel HOWETA this business.

Following people around and shrieking at
them is what crazystreet people do.


Yeah. HOWEver, they don't QUOTE your own POSTED
CASE HISTORY when they GO INSANE, eh tommy?

That's funny!


INDEEDY. You got a VERY LONG POSTED CASE
HISTORY of HURTIN INTIMIDATIN an MURDERIN
innocent defenseless dumb critters an LYIN abHOWET IT.

Crazy street people often have a very good idea
of what's going on around them.


Yeah. Do you suppHOWES a "CRAZY STREET PERSON"
would be able to LOOK UP YOUR OWN POSTED CASE
HISTORY in the pubic library, tommy?

And you seldom do.


Perhaps MOORE folks should LOOK UP YOUR
OWN POSTED CASE HISTORY, eh tommy?

--
Handsome Jack Morrison


LIKE THIS:

Here's HOWER punk thug coward pal tommy sorenson aka joey
finnochiarrio aka handsome jack morrison aka DOGMAN abusin
innocent defenseless dumb critters and some "CRAZY STREET
PERSONS" askin for dog trainin ADVICE:

"At no time do the Monks *ever* advocate beating a
dog. A swat on the rump or a check to the chin does
*not* constitute a "beating."

I don't know how big you are, kiddo, so this may
not be as easy for you as it is for me, but use
a little "knee action," that is, as the dog goes
charging by you, just give the dog a little bop
with your knee and shin. Yep, really lean into it.

Even knock her over, if you can, but make sure to
make her think twice about rushing past you again -
- which is exactly what you want her to do.

Don't bother with scolding her, she'll get the message.

If it happens again, just REPEAT the knee action.

When she steps on your toes, just pick up your foot
abruptly and nudge her with your knee. Again, no
scolding is necessary here, so you don't have to
worry about her "over-reacting."

I don't think this is necessarily a lack of respect
for you, just a lack of training. That is, she just
needs *more* of it."

"My objective is always to find a way that WORKS.
And if it is DANGEROUS behavior that I'm trying
to modify, behavior than can get the dog KILLED,
I will resort to ANYTHING to save him.

A-N-Y-T-H-I-N-G.

Okay. Call me a cruel, inhumane, abusive *******
if you want to, but it doesn't affect me at all.
When you've saved the lives of as many dogs as I
have, you'll learn that that's the only thing that
really matters. Saving lives and making dogs become
good citizens"

------------

Here's tommy sorenson aka "BIG DADDY" BEATIN a dog
to HOWEsbreak IT to "SAVE IT FROM THE NEEDLE".

But first, a little good koehler trainin:

Koehler On Correcting The Housebreaking Backslider.

"If the punishment is not severe enough, some of
these "backsliders" will think they're winning and
will continue to mess in the house.

An indelible impression can sometimes be
made by giving the dog a hard spanking of long
duration, then leaving him tied by the mess he's
made so you can come back at twenty minute
intervals and punish him again for the same
thing. (Dogs are REALLY stupid. J.H.)

In most cases, the dog that deliberately does this
disagreeable thing cannot be made reliable by the
light spanking that some owners seem to think is
adequate punishment. It will be better for your dog,
as well as the house, if you really pour it on him."

"Housebreaking Problems:

"The Koehler Method of Dog Training"
Howell Book House, 1996"

Occasionally, there is a pup who seems determined to
relieve himself inside the house, regardless of how
often he has the opportunity to go outside. This dog
may require punishment.

Make certain he is equipped with a collar
and piece of line so he can't avoid correction.

When you discover a mess, move in fast, take him to
the place of his error, and hold his head close enough
so that he associates his error with the punishment.

Punish him by spanking him with a light strap or
switch. Either one is better than a folded newspaper.

It is important to your future relationship that you
do not rush at him and start swinging before you get
hold of him.

When he's been spanked, take him outside.
Chances are, if you are careful in your feeding
and close observation, you will not have to do
much punishing.

Be consistent in your handling.

To have a pup almost house-broken and then force
him to commit an error by not providing an opportunity
to go outside is very unfair. Careful planning will
make your job easier.

The same general techniques of housebreaking
apply to grown dogs that are inexperienced in the
house.

For the grown dog who was reliable in the house
and then backslides, the method of correction
differs somewhat.

In this group of "backsliders" we have the
"revenge piddler." This dog protests being alone by
messing on the floor and often in the middle of a bed.

The first step of correction is to confine the dog
closely in a part of the house when you go away, so
that he is constantly reminded of his obligation.

The fact that he once was reliable in the house is
proof that the dog knows right from wrong, and it
leaves you no other course than to punish him
sufficiently to convince him that the satisfaction of
his wrongdoing is not worth the consequences.

If the punishment is not severe enough, some of
these "backsliders" will think they're winning and
will continue to mess in the house.

An indelible impression can sometimes be made
by giving the dog a hard spanking of long duration,
then leaving him tied by the mess he's made so you
can come back at twenty minute intervals and
punish him again for the same thing.

In most cases, the dog that deliberately does this
disagreeable thing cannot be made reliable by the
light spanking that some owners seem to think is
adequate punishment.

It will be better for your dog, as well as the house,
if you really pour it on him.

====================

"The Koehler Method of Dog Training (1962). New York:
Howell Book Book House(p. 52-53)."

Hanging

"First, the trainer makes certain that the collar
and leash are more than adequate for any jerk
or strain that the dog's most frantic actions could
cause. Then he starts to work the dog deliberately
and fairly to the point where the dog makes his grab.

Before the teeth have reached their target,
the dog, weight permitting, is jerked from
the ground.

As in coping with some of the afore-mentioned
problems the dog is suspended in mid-air.

However, to let the biting dog recover
his footing while he still had the strength
to renew the attack would be cruelty.

The only justifiable course is to hold him
suspended until he has neither the strength
nor inclination to renew the fight.

When finally it is obvious that he is
physically incapable of expressing his
resentment and is lowered to the ground,
he will probably stagger loop-legged for a
few steps, vomit once or twice, and roll
over on his side.

The sight of a dog lying, thick-tongued,
on his side, is not pleasant, but do not
let it alarm you

THE REAL "HOOD"

"If your dog is a real "hood" who would
regard the foregoing types of protest as
"kid stuff" and would express his
resentment of your efforts by biting,
your problem is difficult -- and pressing.

"Professional trainers often get these
extreme problems. Nearly always the
"protest biter" is the handiwork of a
person who, by avoiding situations that
the dog might resent, has nurtured the
seeds of rebellion and then cultivated
the resultant growth with under correction.

When these people reap their inevitable
and oftentimes painful harvest, they are
ready to avail themselves of "the cruel
trainer" whose advice they may have
once rejected because it was incompatible
with the sugary droolings of mealy-
mouthed columnists, breed-ring biddies,
and dog psychologists who, by the
broken skins and broken hearts their
misinformation causes, can be proven guilty
of the greatest act of cruelty to animals
since the dawn of time.

"With more genuine compassion for the
biting dog than would ever be demonstrated
by those who are "too kind" to make a
correction and certainly with more disregard
for his safety, the professional trainer
morally feels obligated to perform a "major
operation."

"Since we are presently concerned with
the dog that bites in resentment of the
demands of training, we will set our
example in that situation. (In a later
chapter we will deal with the with the
much easier problem of the dog that
bites someone other than his master."

Are we havin FUN yet?

Probably NOT, eh tommy?

Here tommy, TRY THIS for some FUN:

"Handsome Jack Morrison"
wrote in message
...

On 26 Jul 2003 22:14:29 GMT,
(DogStar716) wrote:


Never mind dogman


You too? Some folks just never learn.


Uh huh


One of the signs of mental illness is to say "Uh huh" a lot.


PS: If the "trainer" you were talking about isn't on this
list, he (or she) is NOT an approved Koehler trainer, no
matter how loud you scream otherwise.


May I laugh again? LOL! One doesn't need to be on a list
to use Koehlers methods or teach his methods.


Let me be among the first (apparently) to tell you that not
every trainer who uses a leash is a *Koehler* trainer.


Sheesh.


This person may call herself a Koehler trainer, but if she's
hanging 12 week old puppies, she's about as far from a
Koehler trainer as a dog trainer can possibly be.


Again, this is just your IGNORANCE showing.


I can call myself a devout Christian, but if I'm not
adhering to the doctrine, I'm something else.


http://www.koehlerdogtraining.com/patoflearn.html
Sorry, the very first sentences make me aware that whoever
wrote it knows nothing about PR based training:


"Amidst the current (and politically correct) trend in
Positive Reinforcement Only training systems"


You cannot use PR only.


Au contraire. Many, many posters to r.p.d.b. (and many
other places as well) *claim* that they use nothing but R.
You know, the PPers.


And they do it quite loudly, too.


Surely you aren't blind (and deaf), as well as ignorant?


Those are hard handicaps to overcome, Dogstar.


And if you knew anything about PR BASED training, you would
realize that. It's not all cookies and babytalk.


There is no stronger supporter of R than Handsome Jack
Morrison, but I also use every behavioral tool in my bag,
including R-, P, and P-, because I know that even R has its
limits.


You'd know that too, if you didn't have your head in the
sand.


But that seems to be the battle cry of the Koehler-ites.


The Koehlerites have no battle cry.


They have behaviorism on their side, and that's more than
enough.


I don't need instruction on how to give my dogs a proper
leash correction as I do not rely on a leash to control or
teach my dog.


That may or may not be suitable for your needs, but it's not
suitable for the majority of dog owners, especially since
the advent of leash laws.


Besides, after just a few weeks of proper Koehler training,
Koehler dogs likewise are no longer in need of a leash.


That you apparently don't know that, once again shows me
just how ignorant of anything to do with Koehler you are.


My last two dogs have been trained offleash right from the
start, using rewards for what I like, and nothing for what
I don't like.


Good for you, and if that level of training is good enough
for you, fine. But it's not good enough for many of the
rest of us.


Again, I'm not saying Koehler doesn't work.


I really have no idea what you're saying anymore, because
you apparently know so damn little about Koehler and
behavioral principles in general that it's hard to have an
informed discussion with you.


PS: It boggles my mind at how stupid you must be to keep
denying that those certain harsh methods are only for LAST
RESORT situations, intended only to SAVE A DOG'S LIFE,
even after I've repeatedly given you direct *quotes* from
Koehler's book saying just that. It's like you don't even
care how stupid people think you are, or how devious you
are, etc. That can't help your cause any. You'd think that
you'd at least want to *appear* to be honest, even if you're
not. -- Handsome Jack Morrison *gently remove the detonator
to reply via e-mail


-----------------------

"Handsome Jack Morrison"
wrote in message
...

On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 17:52:18 -0400, "Krishur"
wrote:


Good books huh?


Absolutely. Some are, in fact, classics.


Which idea was your favorite, the one where they tell you
to alpha roll a "dominant" dog,


There's nothing inherently wrong with rolling a dog (i.e.,
it *can* and *does* work in *some* situations).
Unfortunately, most people either do it incorrectly, do it
at the wrong time, etc.


or where they tell you that you didn't hit him hard enough
if he doesn't yelp or approaches you within 5 minutes of
his punishment?


If physical discipline is deemed necessary (after careful
evaluation), it's much more cruel not to get it over with
quickly than it is to do it incrementally and
half-heartedly, which usually only invites the need for even
more discipline.


Maybe you liked when they recommend these beatings for
housebreaking accidents, chewing/destructive behavior,
stealing, trying to get on your bed
at night and dog on dog aggression.


At no time do the Monks *ever* advocate beating a dog. A
swat on the rump or a check to the chin does *not*
constitute a "beating."


I'm sorry if you don't agree.


And each of those behavior "problems" needs to be looked at
in its proper context.


A quote from the Monks:


"We repeat, these situations may merit physical discipline.
Since no book can pretend to analyze every individual dog
and situation, we feel obligated to emphasize from the
outset that discipline is never an arbitrary training
technique to be applied to each and every dog for all
offenses. We do, however, believe that physical and verbal
discipline can be an effective technique. The best policy if
you experience any of the above problems is to consult a
qualified trainer or veterinarian for evaluation of your
individual situation....


"If discipline is decided upon as a training technique, it
should be the proper technique. We feel we have developed
several methods that depend less on violent physical force
than timing, a flair for drama, and the element of surprise.
We feel an obligation, as responsible trainers, to map out
these methods, rather than simply skip the topic because it
is unpleasant. Dog owners want to know what to do."


In other words, physical discipline is reserved for those
serious, special occasions when other methods have failed.


For example, they do not recommend using physical discipline
for *routine* housebreaking chores -- only on those rare
occasions when an already reliably housebroken dog is (after
careful evaluation) deemed to be soiling the house on
purpose, backsliding, etc.


I'll give you an actual example. Years ago, an adult dog
was brought to me as an *incurable* house-soiler. It was
either get the dog reliably housetrained or the dog was
going on a one way trip to the pound. Being the kind,
compassionate trainer that I am, I was prepared to do
whatever it took to get this dog house-trained and save his
life.


After several weeks of more or less traditional training,
and to poor result, I brought out the big guns -- physical
and verbal discipline. Whenever the dog soiled the house
(no, you don't even have to catch him in the act), I
immediately (but very calmly) tossed a leash on his collar,
dragged him to the scene of the crime, and (using a large
chair as a prop) tethered him to the leg of the chair, with
his nose about two inches away from the poop. After a
couple of swats on the rump, some loud vocalizing, and a
wait of about 20 minutes, I'd release the dog and then
ignore him for a while. I had to repeat this process *three*
times, I think -- and the house-soiling miraculously
stopped. The dog went home to enjoy a long and contented
life with his original owners, and I got to feel good about
myself.


So, yes, the Monk's books are good ones. Even for novices.


Yup, that's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.


-- Handsome Jack Morrison *gently remove the detonator to
reply via e-mail


Koehler's Usefulness: Digging


If you come home and find your dog has dug a hole, fill the
hole brimful of water. With the training collar and leash,
bring the dog to the hole and shove his nose into the water;
hold him there until he is sure he's drowning.

If your dog is of any size, you may get all of the action of a cowboy
bull-dogging a steer. Stay with it. I've had elderly ladies who'd had
their fill of ruined flower beds dunk some mighty big dogs. A great
many dogs will associate this horrible experience with the hole they
dug. It is not necessary to *catch the dog in the act* in any of the above
instances of correction.

Be consistent in your corrections and your dog will come to
find the smell of freshly dug earth quite repugnant.


tommy sorenson aka gentleman jack morrison aka DOGMAN wrote:

I LOVE this one. It's VERY effective, it absolutely doesn't interfere
in your relationship with your dog, and is EASY and QUICK to do.
And it can be really funny to watch. Yes, there are other methods that
work, for example the stake-in-the- ground method that Koehler also
describes, balloons in the water, etc.

The point here is that you have a CHOICE. If your flowers, yard,
etc., are no big deal to you, don't even worry about it. Live with
the destruction, give him an area of his own to "destroy," etc.
Whatever. But if you're one of those people who spends a lot of
time and MONEY on your landscaping and grounds, give it a try.

It works!

No, there is no reason for you to "drown" your dog! Hyperbole is
just that. Hyperbole! Don't let it cloud your common sense.

Usually within seconds, the dog will start to struggle. That's what
you want him to do: THINK he is about to drown, not actually drown.
Hold him there for another few seconds and then release him. And I've
never known of a dog to even attempt to bite during this procedure.
Normally they'll just shake it off and start AVOIDING ANY HOLES --
almost immediately.

Now folks, what's the worst thing that happened to this dog? Was it
injured in any way? Absolutely not. Was he startled? Absolutely.
That's what AVERSIVES are supposed to do. This procedure works
in the same way that snake-proofing a dog with an electronic collar
works. Or to prevent dogs from chasing deer, etc. And if you think
you can make your dog, say, avoid POISONOUS snakes using only
positive reinforce, I've got some beach-front property in Kansas I can
sell you cheap.

Are flowers and backyards a matter of life and death. Probably not --
unless the dog ends up at the vet's because of it. But SOME people,
unable to otherwise "cure" this hole-digging, will simply take their
dog to the vet's to be euthanized. Don't believe that? Go down to
your shelter or rescue group and ASK them the reasons that people turn
in dogs. Maybe YOU wouldn't do it, but a lot of folks would. There
aren't approximately 5 million dogs put to death each year (in the US
alone) for no reason, are there?

So folks, yes...YOU decide for yourself. If this seems "cruel" to
you, just don't do it. But don't think about getting an abortion,
either.

Who is cruel to a dog, is more cruel thereby to his own soul.


--Will Judy


Whosoever refuses to punish a dog for behavior that can get it
KILLED has no heart whatsoever and will go straight to hell.

--Dogman

Here's HOWE tommy washes the taste of beatin a dog HOWETA
his pathetic miserable stinkin lyin murderin MHOWETH and
cleverly distracts pathetic losers who looke to him for ADVICE:

In September, 1993, Brenda Pratt Shafer, a registered nurse with
thirteen years of experience, was assigned by her nursing agency
to an abortion clinic. Since Nurse Shafer considered herself "very
pro-choice," she didn't think this assignment would be a problem.
She was wrong. This is what Nurse Shafer saw:

"I stood at the doctor's side and watched him perform a partial-birth
abortion on a woman who was six months pregnant. The baby's
heartbeat was clearly visible on the ultrasound screen. The doctor
delivered the baby's body and arms, everything but his little head.

The baby's body was moving. His little fingers were clasping together.

He was kicking his feet. The doctor took a pair of scissors and
inserted them into the back of the baby's head, and the baby's
arms jerked out in a flinch, a startle reaction, like a baby does
when he thinks that he might fall.

Then the doctor opened the scissors up. Then he stuck the
high-powered suction tube into the hole and sucked the
baby's brains out. Now the baby was completely limp. I
never went back to the clinic. But I am still haunted by
the face of that little boy.

"It was the most perfect, angelic face I have ever seen."

The partial-birth abortion procedure is used after 20 weeks (4 1/2
months) of pregnancy -- often to six months, seven months, and even
later. The difference between partial-birth abortion and homicide is a
mere three inches...

Guided by ultrasound, the abortionist grabs the baby's leg with
forceps.

The baby's leg is pulled out into the birth canal.

The abortionist delivers the baby's entire body except for the head.

The abortionist jams scissors into the baby's skull. The scissors are
then opened to enlarge the hole.

A suction tube is inserted. The child's brains are sucked out, causing
the skull to collapse. The dead baby is then removed.
__

Dogman


=============

Here's some of the best advice tommy ever gave:

"The Koehler Method of Dog Training" Howell Book House," 1996
William Koehler

BARKING, WHINING, HOWLING, YODELING,
SCREAMING, AND WAILING

The fact that you realize you have such a problem makes it certain
you have "reproved" the dog often enough to let him know you were
against his sound effects, even though your reproving didn't quiet
them, so we'll bypass the loudly clapped hands, the cup of water in
his face, and the "shame-shames" and start with something more
emphatic.

We'll begin with the easiest kind of vocalist to correct: the one
that charges gates, fences, doors, and windows, barking furiously at
familiar or imaginary people and objects. A few clusters of BBs from
a good slingshot, in conjunction with the light line and plenty of
temptations, will cause such a dog to use his mind rather than his
mouth.

But you won't make the permanent impression unless you
supply dozens of opportunities for him to exercise the control he
thus acquires. Make sure these opportunities don't always come at
the same time of the day, else he may learn to observe the "quiet
hour" and pursue his old routines at other times.

With the help of the light line, it will be easy to follow the BBs
with a long down to make sure he gets the most from his lesson. As
was mentioned before, eliminating the senseless barking will not
lessen the dog's value as a watchdog but rather, as he grows more
discriminating, increase it.

The dog who vocalizes in bratty protest or lonesomeness because
you're gone constitutes a different problem. If it is impractical
for someone to stay with him constantly (there are owners who cater
to neurosis by employing dog sitters), you'll have to heed
the neighbors and the law and quiet the dog. This calls for a little
ingenuity as well as a heavy hand.

Attach a line to your dog's collar, so your corrective effort
doesn't turn into a footrace around the house until you reach a
stalemate under the bed. This use of the line in the correction will
also serve to establish it as a reminder to be quiet as the dog
drags it around when you're not present. Next, equip yourself with a
man's leather belt or a strap heavy enough to give your particular
dog a good tanning.

Yup-we're going to strike him. Real hard. Remember,
you're dealing with a dog who knows he should be quiet and
neighbors who have legal rights to see that he does.

Now leave, and let your fading footsteps tell the dog of your going.
When you've walked to a point where he'll think you're gone but
where you could hear any noises he might make, stop and listen. If
you find a comfortable waiting place on a nearby porch, be careful
not to talk or laugh. Tests show a dog's hearing to be many times as
sharp as yours.

When the noise comes, instead of trying to sneak up to the door so
you can barge in while he's still barking, which is generally
impossible, respond to his first sound with an emphatic bellow of
"out," and keep on bellowing as you charge back to his area.

Thunder through the door or gate, snatch up the belt that you've
conveniently placed, and descend on him. He'll have no chance to
dodge if you grab the line and reel him in until his front feet are
raised off the floor or, if he's a big dog, until you've snubbed him
up with a hitch on something. While he's held in close, lay the
strap vigorously against his thighs.

Keep pouring it on him until he thinks it's the bitter end. A real
whaling now may cut down somewhat on the number of repeat
performances that will be necessary.

When you're finished and the dog is convinced that he is, put him on
a long down to think things over while you catch your breath. After
fifteen or twenty minutes, release him from the stay and leave the
area again.

So that you won't feel remorseful, reflect on the truth that a great
percentage of the barkers who are given away to "good homes" end
up in the kindly black box with the sweet smell. Personally, I've
always felt that it's even better to spank children, even if they
"cry out," than to "put them to sleep."

You might have a long wait on that comfortable porch before your
dog starts broadcasting again. When he does, let your long range
bellow tie the consequent correction to his first sound and repeat
the spanking, if anything emphasizing it a bit more.

It might be necessary to spend a Saturday or another day off so that
you'll have time to follow through sufficiently. When you have a
full day, you will be able to convince him each yelp will have a bad
consequence, and the consistency will make your job easier. If he
gets away with his concert part of the time, he'll be apt to gamble
on your inconsistency.

After a half dozen corrections, "the reason and the correction" will
be tied in close enough association so that you can move in on him
without the preliminary bellowing of "out." From then on, it's just
a case of laying for the dog and supplying enough bad
consequences of his noise so he'll no longer feel like gambling.

Occasionally, there is a dog who seems to sense that you're hiding
nearby and will utter no sound. He also seems to sense when you
have really gone away, at least according to the neighbors. Maybe
his sensing actually amounts to close observation. He could be
watching and listening for the signs of your actual going.

Make a convincing operation of leaving, even if it requires changing
clothes and being unusually noisy as you slam the doors on the
family car and drive away. Arrange with a friend to trade cars a
block or two from your house so you can come back and park within
earshot without a single familiar sound to tell the dog you've
returned. A few of these car changes are generally enough to fool
the most alert dog.

Whether your dog believes you are gone anytime you step out of the
house or requires the production of changing clothes and driving
off, keep working until even your neighbors admit the dog has
reformed. If there has been a long history of barking and whining,
it sometimes requires a lot of work to make a dog be quiet when
you're not around, so give the above method an honest try before
you presume your dog requires a more severe correction.

--
Handsome Jack Morrison
*gently remove the detonator to reply by e-mail


I'm Jerry Howe, The Sincerely Incredibly Freakin Insanely Simply
A-M-A-Z-I-N-G
G-R-A-N-D
Puppy, Child, Pussy, Birdy And Horsey Wizard {} ; ~ )

ADIOS, tommy {): ~ )

 




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