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Dog Whisperer a bit of a sham and cruel?



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 25th 06, 03:55 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior,rec.arts.tv
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Default Dog Whisperer a bit of a sham and cruel?

On Monday night's season premiere I have to wonder if Cesar Milan isn't
a bit of a sham and a bit cruel..

The sham part:
There was a dog that was a test subject in a lab and after being sent to
a pound a couple who volunteered at the pound adopted him. The dog after
4 years was still afraid of people.

Well Milan when approaching the dog in his cage Milan stated he was
keeping his back to the dog since the back contains the least amount of
energy.

Well there was a person with a camera with Milan who was obviously
facing the dog. If Milan didn't want to make the dog nervous by just
approaching the dog walking backwards didn't the cameraperson cancel it
out? The dog in fact looked more at the camera then Milan's back.

Cruel part:
Another episode last week there was a small dog that attacked anyone
touching his back. Milan believed it could have been a bad experience
like a needle that makes the dog act this way. Solution put a leash high
up on the throat and tug so he can't bite when being touched in the
back.
This seems not just dumb but cruel.

So the dog now will not attack because of a bad experience of a tug on
the leash around the throat but if the dog believes he has to protect a
certain area of his body won't he still want to protect that body part?
But now that protection is denied him with fear of a tug on the leash?

It just seemed cruel.

  #2  
Old October 25th 06, 04:48 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior,rec.arts.tv
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Default Dog Whisperer a bit of a sham and cruel?


wrote:
On Monday night's season premiere I have to wonder if Cesar Milan isn't
a bit of a sham and a bit cruel..

The sham part:
There was a dog that was a test subject in a lab and after being sent to
a pound a couple who volunteered at the pound adopted him. The dog after
4 years was still afraid of people.

Well Milan when approaching the dog in his cage Milan stated he was
keeping his back to the dog since the back contains the least amount of
energy.

Well there was a person with a camera with Milan who was obviously
facing the dog. If Milan didn't want to make the dog nervous by just
approaching the dog walking backwards didn't the cameraperson cancel it
out? The dog in fact looked more at the camera then Milan's back.


It's called 'editing', and 'limited air-time' - are so sure that was
the first and only attempt at approaching the animal with Cesar's back
to it? You acknowledged the animal exhibited the questionable
behaviour for 4yrs; I wouldn't expect 'any' animal to be fully
complacent or controlled on first approach - would you?

Cruel part:
Another episode last week there was a small dog that attacked anyone
touching his back. Milan believed it could have been a bad experience
like a needle that makes the dog act this way. Solution put a leash high
up on the throat and tug so he can't bite when being touched in the
back.
This seems not just dumb but cruel.

So the dog now will not attack because of a bad experience of a tug on
the leash around the throat but if the dog believes he has to protect a
certain area of his body won't he still want to protect that body part?


I believe te leash tug is to break the dog's 'habitual' behaviour by
disrupting its thought process and refocusing the animal's attention
away from the simple touch on its back - if someone were actually
injuring the dog it would be different, but the animal is associating
*all* touching as threatening or hamrful, when it's not.

But now that protection is denied him with fear of a tug on the leash?


Protection from what, its owner's petting?

It just seemed cruel.


I'll go for the re-learning of a behaviour with a temporary tug on the
leash, rather than having an animal that may bite an innocent person or
child for wanting to stroke its back.

  #3  
Old October 25th 06, 05:00 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Michael A. Ball
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Posts: 311
Default Dog Whisperer a bit of a sham and cruel?

On Tue, 24 Oct 2006 22:55:57 -0400, wrote:

On Monday night's season premiere I have to wonder if Cesar Milan isn't
a bit of a sham and a bit cruel..


Well Milan when approaching the dog in his cage Milan stated he was
keeping his back to the dog since the back contains the least amount of
energy.

Well there was a person with a camera with Milan who was obviously
facing the dog. If Milan didn't want to make the dog nervous by just
approaching the dog walking backwards didn't the cameraperson cancel it
out? The dog in fact looked more at the camera then Milan's back.

Cruel part:
...Solution put and tug so he can't bite
when being touched in the back. This seems not just dumb but cruel.

So the dog now will not attack because of a bad experience of a tug on
the leash around the throat but if the dog believes he has to protect a
certain area of his body won't he still want to protect that body part?
But now that protection is denied him with fear of a tug on the leash?

It just seemed cruel.


It seemed cruel to small minds only.

"Sham" crap part:

Damn it! I hate this crap. If you spent more time in dog cages, studying
their behavior, and less time condemning a man who performs a noteworthy
service, you'd know the answers to some of your own questions.

I very often turn my back to nervous shelter dogs. I didn't know why it
helped sooth them, only that it does sooth them. I am often on my knees,
which seems to disarm them even further.

Yes, the camera person is a necessary evil, a distraction: just like
shelter visitors are for me, but they are vital, for the sake of the
dogs.

"Cruel" crap part:
"A leash high up on the throat" exerts the least pressure, but allows
the greatest control. YES! YES! YES! The dog definitely will try to
protect himself whenever he believes it necessary--just like we do!
However, Milan's goal was to convince the dog that it was no longer
necessary to protect that body part. Eventually, the dog will realize
the danger no longer exists; then the leash will not be necessary.

Just like us, dogs sometimes Have to be forced out of their comfort
zone. This process is not always gentle, pleasant, tranquil, etc. It
often makes the unfamiliar very puzzled, even upset--as you were. With
my small bag of tricks, I can usually accomplish my goals in sight of
the public. However, for some very assertive/fearful dogs, I have to
find a place where only the shelter staff can see me.

Things (i.e. cruelty) are not always what they appear to be.





_______________________
Always keep your words soft and sweet,
just in case you have to eat them.
  #4  
Old October 25th 06, 09:38 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior,rec.arts.tv
Quiet Desperation
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Posts: 1
Default Dog Whisperer a bit of a sham and cruel?

In article ,
wrote:

On Monday night's season premiere I have to wonder if Cesar Milan isn't
a bit of a sham and a bit cruel..


I dunno. He got Cartman in line, at least for a while.
  #6  
Old October 25th 06, 09:25 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior,rec.arts.tv
Steve
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Posts: 2
Default Dog Whisperer a bit of a sham and cruel?

diddy wrote:
and started heeling her. and I'd say her name. When she looked. *click* -
Treat -
She'd look away... I'd say her name. When she looked. *click* - Treat -
Repeatedly


What sorta treats do you use in training? Seems like the dog could
start putting on weight with endless repetition involving treats each
time.


--

The point of life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely
in a well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways,
totally worn out, shouting: Holy ****, what a ride!

....Anon
  #7  
Old October 25th 06, 09:26 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior,rec.arts.tv
Steve
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Posts: 2
Default Dog Whisperer a bit of a sham and cruel?


Dunno about that, but I suspect the failures don't make it to TV...


--

The point of life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely
in a well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways,
totally worn out, shouting: Holy ****, what a ride!

....Anon
  #8  
Old October 25th 06, 10:09 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior,rec.arts.tv
David Johnston
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Posts: 1
Default Dog Whisperer a bit of a sham and cruel?

On Tue, 24 Oct 2006 22:55:57 -0400, wrote:

On Monday night's season premiere I have to wonder if Cesar Milan isn't
a bit of a sham and a bit cruel..

The sham part:
There was a dog that was a test subject in a lab and after being sent to
a pound a couple who volunteered at the pound adopted him. The dog after
4 years was still afraid of people.

Well Milan when approaching the dog in his cage Milan stated he was
keeping his back to the dog since the back contains the least amount of
energy.

Well there was a person with a camera with Milan who was obviously
facing the dog. If Milan didn't want to make the dog nervous by just
approaching the dog walking backwards didn't the cameraperson cancel it
out?


The cameraman was farther away.

Cruel part:
Another episode last week there was a small dog that attacked anyone
touching his back. Milan believed it could have been a bad experience
like a needle that makes the dog act this way. Solution put a leash high
up on the throat and tug so he can't bite when being touched in the
back.
This seems not just dumb but cruel.

So the dog now will not attack because of a bad experience of a tug on
the leash around the throat


No the dog will not attack because, (in theory), he'll have learned
that being touched on the back isn't painful.

 




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