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vaccine schedule / Dodds question



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 14th 06, 03:08 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
MauiJNP
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Posts: 1,405
Default vaccine schedule / Dodds question

What vaccines/boosters schedules do others follow? Maui had his "puppy
shots" and then a one year booster of rabies and DHPP (no lepto). His
rabies shot is good for 2 years according to the vet but she recommended
getting the others done yearly (DHPP, no lepto). I thought I remembered a
lot of people say they follow Dr. Jean Dodds vaccine schedule so I looked
that up to see what it says. http://www.doglogic.com/vaccination.htm

Apparently, she recommends doing vaccine antibody titers for distemper
and parvovirus yearly. I looked up titers to find if that was the same
thing as a shot and it said its a blood test. Does this mean they test to
see how much of the vaccine is in the dog and then judge accordingly if they
should give them more of the vaccine? If not, what does this mean?

I want to do what's best for my dogs and I want to make sure I have all
the info before proceeding. I tried finding a "dummies" book on dog
vaccines and came up with a book called "Complete Idiots guide to getting
and owning a dog" which has a chapter on health (with a mention of
vaccines). Did anyone ever read it? Is it any good? If not, is there any
other books that explain it simply. Or maybe a good website? I am pretty
clueless science/biology-wise.

THANK YOU for any help.


  #2  
Old November 14th 06, 03:31 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Lynne
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Posts: 2,609
Default vaccine schedule / Dodds question

on Tue, 14 Nov 2006 03:08:58 GMT, "MauiJNP" wrote:

Apparently, she recommends doing vaccine antibody titers for distemper
and parvovirus yearly. I looked up titers to find if that was the
same thing as a shot and it said its a blood test. Does this mean
they test to see how much of the vaccine is in the dog and then judge
accordingly if they should give them more of the vaccine? If not,
what does this mean?


from http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-...iter_test.htm:

The term “titer” refers to the strength or concentration of a substance
in a solution. When testing vaccine titers in dogs, a veterinarian takes
a blood sample from a dog and has the blood tested for the presence and
strength of the dog’s immunological response to a viral disease. If the
dog demonstrates satisfactory levels of vaccine titers, the dog is
considered sufficiently immune to the disease, or possessing good
“immunologic memory,” and not in need of further vaccination against the
disease at that time.


I had a titer test years ago for Rubella as I was vaccinated during a
questionable time period for the vaccine. I was found to not be immune
and given the vaccine immediately after the birth of my 1st baby. I had
refused the vaccine because I also feel less is more, unless you have
proof a vaccine is needed. I think titering is much better for dogs, and
wish they would do it on people more often, too.

--
Lynne


"Every once in a while, the tables are turned and we get to share our
lives with an animal who takes care of their human." - Tara, rpdb
  #3  
Old November 14th 06, 04:15 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
MauiJNP
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,405
Default vaccine schedule / Dodds question


Apparently, she recommends doing vaccine antibody titers for distemper
and parvovirus yearly. I looked up titers to find if that was the
same thing as a shot and it said its a blood test. Does this mean
they test to see how much of the vaccine is in the dog and then judge
accordingly if they should give them more of the vaccine? If not,
what does this mean?


from http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-...iter_test.htm:


great website, thanks for the link.


The term "titer" refers to the strength or concentration of a substance
in a solution. When testing vaccine titers in dogs, a veterinarian takes
a blood sample from a dog and has the blood tested for the presence and
strength of the dog's immunological response to a viral disease. If the
dog demonstrates satisfactory levels of vaccine titers, the dog is
considered sufficiently immune to the disease, or possessing good
"immunologic memory," and not in need of further vaccination against the
disease at that time.


I had a titer test years ago for Rubella as I was vaccinated during a
questionable time period for the vaccine. I was found to not be immune
and given the vaccine immediately after the birth of my 1st baby. I had
refused the vaccine because I also feel less is more, unless you have
proof a vaccine is needed. I think titering is much better for dogs, and
wish they would do it on people more often, too.


I will definately be talking to my vet about doing titer tests. I'd hate to
over vaccinate my dogs and this seems like a great way to be sure you don't
do that.

thanks again for the easily understandable answer and link!


  #4  
Old November 14th 06, 05:10 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Rocky
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Posts: 1,678
Default vaccine schedule / Dodds question

Lynne said in
rec.pets.dogs.health:

[quote from canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com snipped]
If the
dog demonstrates satisfactory levels of vaccine titers, the
dog is considered sufficiently immune to the disease, or
possessing good "immunologic memory," and not in need of
further vaccination against the disease at that time.


The main problem I see with titering is knowing what
"sufficiently" means, or in knowing what levels of immunity
indicators are required for each disease. And can these levels
be applied generally?

A vet student friend contends that titering is OK, as long as
your dog is one of only a few having it done. He said that once
the number of titered dogs goes above 30% in a geographical
area, problems will be seen.

Generally, I'm all for titering, what with vaccinations being a
probable seizure trigger.

--
--Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
  #5  
Old November 14th 06, 02:43 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Suja
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Posts: 873
Default vaccine schedule / Dodds question


"MauiJNP" wrote in message:

What vaccines/boosters schedules do others follow?


Personally, I titer the dogs, and only booster for Distemper/Parvo if
necessary. Especially important for Pan, as Danes are prone to vaccinosis.

I want to do what's best for my dogs and I want to make sure I have

all
the info before proceeding. I


There is a lot of good information out there on vaccine reactions, and the
need for yearly vaccinations. I am pulling stuff out of Khan's files; we
spoke with the vet when we decided to titer instead of vaccinate, and she
was totally okay with that.

http://www.colovma.com/associations/...es%20final.pdf
http://www.aahanet.org/About_aaha/va...idelines06.pdf

The only PITA is that I keep getting reminders about how the dogs are due
for their annual vaccines, although they have been titered.

Suja


  #6  
Old November 14th 06, 04:17 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
sighthounds & siberians
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,538
Default vaccine schedule / Dodds question

On Mon, 13 Nov 2006 22:08:58 -0500, "MauiJNP" wrote:

What vaccines/boosters schedules do others follow? Maui had his "puppy
shots" and then a one year booster of rabies and DHPP (no lepto). His
rabies shot is good for 2 years according to the vet but she recommended
getting the others done yearly (DHPP, no lepto). I thought I remembered a
lot of people say they follow Dr. Jean Dodds vaccine schedule so I looked
that up to see what it says. http://www.doglogic.com/vaccination.htm

Apparently, she recommends doing vaccine antibody titers for distemper
and parvovirus yearly. I looked up titers to find if that was the same
thing as a shot and it said its a blood test. Does this mean they test to
see how much of the vaccine is in the dog and then judge accordingly if they
should give them more of the vaccine? If not, what does this mean?

I want to do what's best for my dogs and I want to make sure I have all
the info before proceeding. I tried finding a "dummies" book on dog
vaccines and came up with a book called "Complete Idiots guide to getting
and owning a dog" which has a chapter on health (with a mention of
vaccines). Did anyone ever read it? Is it any good? If not, is there any
other books that explain it simply. Or maybe a good website? I am pretty
clueless science/biology-wise.


I don't do titers; I follow the major veterinary schools' protocol,
which is to vaccinate for parvo and distemper every 3 years. The main
reason I do this instead of titers is because titers are prohibitively
expensive for the number of dogs we usually have around. Rabies is
whatever your state law says. Dogs that have had autoimmune illnesses
or seizures, or dogs over 10, do not get vaccinated. I do the same
thing with cats.

Mustang Sally

  #7  
Old November 14th 06, 11:43 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
MauiJNP
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,405
Default vaccine schedule / Dodds question


What vaccines/boosters schedules do others follow?


Personally, I titer the dogs, and only booster for Distemper/Parvo if
necessary. Especially important for Pan, as Danes are prone to
vaccinosis.

I want to do what's best for my dogs and I want to make sure I have

all
the info before proceeding. I


There is a lot of good information out there on vaccine reactions, and the
need for yearly vaccinations. I am pulling stuff out of Khan's files; we
spoke with the vet when we decided to titer instead of vaccinate, and she
was totally okay with that.

http://www.colovma.com/associations/...es%20final.pdf
http://www.aahanet.org/About_aaha/va...idelines06.pdf


thanks for the info and links. I bookmarked them and will get a chance to
read them after Cali's agility class tonight.


The only PITA is that I keep getting reminders about how the dogs are due
for their annual vaccines, although they have been titered.


yeah, thats sounds like a waste of paper and postage.


  #8  
Old November 15th 06, 12:45 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5
Default vaccine schedule / Dodds question


MauiJNP wrote:
What vaccines/boosters schedules do others follow? Maui had his "puppy
shots" and then a one year booster of rabies and DHPP (no lepto). His
rabies shot is good for 2 years according to the vet but she recommended
getting the others done yearly (DHPP, no lepto). I thought I remembered a
lot of people say they follow Dr. Jean Dodds vaccine schedule so I looked
that up to see what it says. http://www.doglogic.com/vaccination.htm

Apparently, she recommends doing vaccine antibody titers for distemper
and parvovirus yearly. I looked up titers to find if that was the same
thing as a shot and it said its a blood test. Does this mean they test to
see how much of the vaccine is in the dog and then judge accordingly if they
should give them more of the vaccine? If not, what does this mean?

I want to do what's best for my dogs and I want to make sure I have all
the info before proceeding. I tried finding a "dummies" book on dog
vaccines and came up with a book called "Complete Idiots guide to getting
and owning a dog" which has a chapter on health (with a mention of
vaccines). Did anyone ever read it? Is it any good? If not, is there any
other books that explain it simply. Or maybe a good website? I am pretty
clueless science/biology-wise.

THANK YOU for any help.

I had my dog's boosters done every 3 years and now that hes 12 I don't
have them
done except a year ago he had a homeopathic booster as I didn't want
him getting
chemicals at an old age.

On walks my dog sniffs a lot and licks the ground on occasion which the
vet said
is good for his immune system.

Having said that my previous dog at age around 7 got the pavro virus
which she
survived.It is not a very nice virus and the dog was very sick.I think
a 3 year booster
is all that a dog needs and once every year is just the greedy
phamacutical industry
trying to make easy money.

Good luck!

  #9  
Old November 15th 06, 03:40 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
buglady
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 863
Default vaccine schedule / Dodds question

"Rocky" wrote in message
...
The main problem I see with titering is knowing what
"sufficiently" means, or in knowing what levels of immunity
indicators are required for each disease. And can these levels
be applied generally?


.........True they cannot test for memory cells, but they're only part of the
equation and if a dog has an antibody response to a vaccine, they've made
memory cells. I'll give you Christie's page also. It's a good synopsis as
to how the whole thing works.
http://www.caberfeidh.com/CanineTiters.htm

........And no, immunizations won't work if vets routinely pay no attention
to the dog's health when they come in for a shot. A sick dog should not be
vaccinated. And sick means sickness like bad allergy problems, not just
prostrate with illness. Allergies indicate immune system dysfunction, which
is the part you're asking to sit up and take notice when it's challenged
with an antigen. I don't believe in the multi-valent shots either. I think
that's asking the immune system to do too much all at once, and if there's
any reason for general vaccine failure in the canine community it's probably
that. There are only a few vaccines that are really necessary and doing
them singly will insure the immune system responds well.

A vet student friend contends that titering is OK, as long as
your dog is one of only a few having it done. He said that once
the number of titered dogs goes above 30% in a geographical
area, problems will be seen.


........OK, next time you see your friend, make him explain this thoroughly.
I'm sure he hasn't thought this through, that it's just regurgitation from
a vet professor. It literally makes no sense and sounds like fear
propaganda. Oh, and ask your friend if he's had his immunizations lately,
or oh, wait, did he only get them as a kid? Hmmmmmm, how come? Aren't they
going to *wear off* any day now?

buglady
take out the dog before replying



  #10  
Old November 15th 06, 03:50 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
buglady
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 863
Default vaccine schedule / Dodds question

"MauiJNP" wrote in message
...
What vaccines/boosters schedules do others follow? Maui had his

"puppy
shots" and then a one year booster of rabies and DHPP (no lepto). His
rabies shot is good for 2 years according to the vet

.......There is no rabies shot labeled for 2 years. They're either 1 yr or 3
yr and they're the same vaccine. It's probably a 3 yr shot and the vet is
just telling you 2. You really only need ONE shot, but because rabies is
fatal, they give a *booster* a year later to make sure that one or the other
of the shots actually worked. It's one thing to have the philosophy that a
rabies vax should happen every 2 yrs (and no vet college would support that
practice), but quite another to out and out tell a lie. This whole issue
rather infuriates me. It's really not that hard to explain to people.
If the dog is fully immunized there's nothing to *boost*. It just doesn't
work that way. Please keep in mind that rabies is a human health problem
and in the end the local Public Health Authority doesn't really care if
your pet gets excess rabies shots or whether it does them any harm. They're
concerned about people, not animals. In the US, rabies is rarely
transmitted by pets anyway, mostly by wild animals, even though there's a
goodly portion of unvaccinated pets out there. Vaccinating your pet every
year with a rabies shot will not get those unvaccinated dogs immunized.

........Here's a good page for discussion of vaccines, boosters, titers and
how it works. Links to discussion on boosters is at upper right of page:
http://www.caberfeidh.com/CanineTiters.htm
(note - there's a typo in the word for the immune response to a foreign
antigen - it should be seroconversion - I'm not mentioning this to be picky
as if you want to read more you'll need the correct term.)

Dr. Jean Dodds vaccine schedule so I looked
that up to see what it says. http://www.doglogic.com/vaccination.htm


........Here's the AAHA recommendations fresh off the press for this year:
http://www.aahanet.org/About_aaha/Ab..._Canine06.html

...........I suggest you make a copy of this and drop it off for your vet to
read. Dr. Schultz has been doing studies on vaccines for yrs and current
studies show parvo vaccines can last 7 yrs (or more).

........There was recently a discussion on another board about vaccine
issues. Turns out all the vets in this one area agreed to start charging 3X
as much for some vaccines which are now recommended for every 3 yrs instead
of yearly. They were worried about their income. AFAIC they're just
fueling the fires for the fraction of the people who think vets are only in
it for the money. Sounds suspiciously like the gas companies. :-(

Apparently, she recommends doing vaccine antibody titers for distemper
and parvovirus yearly.

...........Certainly if you want backup lab work you can do this. BUT I
really don't think it's necesary. And the rabies titer is big bucks. Don't
remember what the parvo titer costs. The real way to use titers is to draw
a blood sample for a titer test before getting a vax, vax, and get a blood
sample a few weeks later. If the dog had a low titer before vaccination,
but responded to the vaccine by making antibodies to the disease (indicated
by the difference in the titer reading) then the dog is immunized and you
can forget about doing yearly titers. Tell me, did you have immunizations
as a child? Do you still get them yearly? Nope, didn't think so. Doesn't
work any differently with dogs.

a book called "Complete Idiots guide to getting
and owning a dog" which has a chapter on health (with a mention of
vaccines). Did anyone ever read it? Is it any good?


.........Haven't read that book. There is a Dogs for Dummies book written by
Gina Spadafori. I haven't read this one either, but it's co-authored by a
vet also.
http://www.petconnection.com/bookstore.php

HTH
buglady
take out the dog before replying


 




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