With a twist.

My friend has a new foster GSD (7 years old, 100 pounds, no muscle tone and
needs to lose weight), and he's making her pull her hair out. Basically, he
holds himself the whole day while she's gone to work, but has accidents in
the house (both 1 & 2) when she's home. She's basically getting up every
time he stirs to let him out, but sometimes he just lets loose before she
has the chance to take him out, at least once a day. He is not making any
effort to hide what he's doing, and he'll do it when she's in the shower or
getting ready for work, for example. To make matters worse, he will also
consume poop, his own and that of other dogs, which makes crate training
less than ideal. At the dog park, he walks around actively hunting for
poop, and will even lick off the little bits that are left after the humans
have cleaned up.

So, basically she needs help with (1) getting it through to him that inside
is not for eliminating and (2) getting him to stop eating poop.

The history we have on the dog is that he belonged to a 90 year old, whose
son decided that the dad didn't need the dog and brought him to the shelter.

Suja

On Tue, 14 Nov 2006 19:02:41 -0500, "Suja" ,
clicked their heels and said:

With a twist.

My friend has a new foster GSD. He is not making any
effort to hide what he's doing, and he'll do it when she's in the shower or
getting ready for work, for example.

She needs to confine him during those times.

To make matters worse, he will also
consume poop, his own and that of other dogs, which makes crate training
less than ideal.

Why? Being a poop eater doesn't necessarily mean he's going to poop
in a crate and then eat it.

At the dog park, he walks around actively hunting for
poop, and will even lick off the little bits that are left after the humans
have cleaned up.

So, basically she needs help with (1) getting it through to him that inside
is not for eliminating and (2) getting him to stop eating poop.

I would look at the diet very closely, for both the spontaneous
elimination and the poop eating. I would also correct his indoor
infractions, yes, even after the fact (which is very successful if
done PROPERLY).

I would probably be feeding him multiple small meals, timed throughout
the day, carefully measured. He would be taken out on leash to
eliminate, every hour. I would not wait for signs - take him out on a
schedule and praise to the hilt when he goes. The more opportunity,
the faster it will sink in that OUTSIDE is the place to go.


--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

Suja wrote:

Been tried, without any success.

What about tethering? It seems to me that hyper-vigilance (in
addition to the hourly potty schedule Janet proposed) is called for,
or there's not going to be much hope of ever fixing the problem.

He eats it, wherever he poops. The first time he did it was on his drive
back to her house from the kennel, after she had made sure that he had
eliminated prior to the trip (Spotsylvania shelter to Fairfax City). Yes,
he promptly ate it.

Wow! How about diapers for car rides? It's not a solution, but
that's one instance where there's no way of dealing with the issue
when it occurs.

She has only had him for 2 weeks, and is hoping that there would be a change
if he is fed a better diet. I'm not as hopeful, given his age and the zeal
with which he goes around hunting for poop.

Muzzle for walkies? Again, it's a management approach, but at this
point, that's the direction I'd take until I could make some
progress with rewiring his brain.

He is eating 3/4 cups of kibble, twice a day. He needs to lose about 20
pounds, would be my guess.

He may be feeling hungry. Are they supplementing his kibble with
low cal extras, like green beans and pumpkin? In addition to that,
I'd cut the meals into 1/2 cup rations 3x/day.

--
Shelly (Warning: see label for details)
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)

Suja wrote:

I am worried that this might have started for a reason, but has now become a
habit for him.

That would be my concern, as well. If he can't be broken of the
habit, he's won't be adoptable. It would suck to have to put down a
dog for something like this, poor fella.

--
Shelly (Warning: see label for details)
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)

"Janet B" wrote in message:
She needs to confine him during those times.

Been tried, without any success.

Why? Being a poop eater doesn't necessarily mean he's going to poop
in a crate and then eat it.

He eats it, wherever he poops. The first time he did it was on his drive
back to her house from the kennel, after she had made sure that he had
eliminated prior to the trip (Spotsylvania shelter to Fairfax City). Yes,
he promptly ate it.

I would look at the diet very closely, for both the spontaneous
elimination and the poop eating.

She has only had him for 2 weeks, and is hoping that there would be a change
if he is fed a better diet. I'm not as hopeful, given his age and the zeal
with which he goes around hunting for poop.

I would also correct his indoor
infractions, yes, even after the fact (which is very successful if
done PROPERLY).

How do you do that properly? She is considering an electronic collar, and
setting him up. Not to worry, she's married to an avid hunter, and he knows
about proper use of one.

I would probably be feeding him multiple small meals, timed throughout
the day, carefully measured.

He is eating 3/4 cups of kibble, twice a day. He needs to lose about 20
pounds, would be my guess.

He would be taken out on leash to
eliminate, every hour. I would not wait for signs - take him out on a
schedule and praise to the hilt when he goes. The more opportunity,
the faster it will sink in that OUTSIDE is the place to go.

I am not sure if she is being consistent about this. Will have to check.

Suja

"diddy" wrote in message:

This sounds silly, but has he been checked out by a vet?

He has had the basics. He is her foster, and I'm not sure that the rescue
has the resources to go on a wild goose chase. I'm sure she doesn't have
the resources herself, since she has 4 dogs of her own.

We added broccoli
to his diet, and he stopped both the dirt eating, and the copraphagia.

Did you just cook the broccoli and add it to his diet? This is certainly
simple enough, and might be worth a shot. Even if it only keeps him from
eating his own poop, it gives some options in the housetraining department.
I am worried that this might have started for a reason, but has now become a
habit for him.

Suja

On Wed, 15 Nov 2006 10:02:26 -0500, "Suja" ,
clicked their heels and said:


"Janet B" wrote in message:
She needs to confine him during those times.

Been tried, without any success.

Where has she confined him? Where is he when she's getting ready for
work? has he been showing other stress signals?

Why? Being a poop eater doesn't necessarily mean he's going to poop
in a crate and then eat it.

He eats it, wherever he poops. The first time he did it was on his drive
back to her house from the kennel, after she had made sure that he had
eliminated prior to the trip (Spotsylvania shelter to Fairfax City). Yes,
he promptly ate it.

I believe that, but has he done so in an actual crate?

I would look at the diet very closely, for both the spontaneous
elimination and the poop eating.

She has only had him for 2 weeks, and is hoping that there would be a change
if he is fed a better diet. I'm not as hopeful, given his age and the zeal
with which he goes around hunting for poop.

I have had some success with Solid Gold's SEP (Stop Eating Poop) and
Petco's "Gas and Stool Deodorizer", but my poop eater is only
interested in his own (and hasn't for a long time). Nutritional
deficiciences sound likely with this foster dog. What is he being
fed?

I would also correct his indoor
infractions, yes, even after the fact (which is very successful if
done PROPERLY).

How do you do that properly? She is considering an electronic collar, and
setting him up. Not to worry, she's married to an avid hunter, and he knows
about proper use of one.

That's one approach, but calmly bringing him to a spot that's found,
and telling him it's very wrong, and taking him outside immediately
and praising the ground (teaching him eliminate on command can help
with this a LOT), can be very effective. So many people are afrair to
correct after-the-fact that the dog never gets corrected for doing it!
*I* have done setups with an e-collar for poop eating, and have found
it to be extremely effective.

I would probably be feeding him multiple small meals, timed throughout
the day, carefully measured.

He is eating 3/4 cups of kibble, twice a day. He needs to lose about 20
pounds, would be my guess.

I would try to make it at least 3-4 meals of the same total.

He would be taken out on leash to
eliminate, every hour. I would not wait for signs - take him out on a
schedule and praise to the hilt when he goes. The more opportunity,
the faster it will sink in that OUTSIDE is the place to go.

I am not sure if she is being consistent about this. Will have to check.

I think it's a bit part of this. He will learn to give signals if
coached. Before each outing, a "do you need out?" and try to elicit a
response of SOME sort.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

On Wed, 15 Nov 2006 08:47:45 -0600, diddy ,
clicked their heels and said:

Since then I've encountered several dogs that "indulge" and asked them to
try broccoli and they did so with success. Not sure if it was the
additional fiber,or perhaps Broccoli changes the poop flavor to
distasteful. anyway .it's worth a shot..and I'd discuss it with his vet
too.

I've heard this about pineapple as well.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

On Wed, 15 Nov 2006 09:53:23 -0500, shelly ,
clicked their heels and said:


Muzzle for walkies? Again, it's a management approach, but at this
point, that's the direction I'd take until I could make some
progress with rewiring his brain.

I had a visiting JRT/lab mix who was a confirmed poop eater. He
managed to eat frozen solid poop with the tips of his teeth, while
wearing a nylon sleeve muzzle. Since he was only here for ~ a week, I
wasn't going to reach non-poop-eating, but geezz louise!


--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com

Janet B wrote:

I had a visiting JRT/lab mix who was a confirmed poop eater. He
managed to eat frozen solid poop with the tips of his teeth, while
wearing a nylon sleeve muzzle. Since he was only here for ~ a week, I
wasn't going to reach non-poop-eating, but geezz louise!

Oh my. That was one determined doggie!

--
Shelly (Warning: see label for details)
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)