Quesions below, but first some background:

So about a month ago I got a dog, Jeebus, from an aquaintance that could no
longer keep him. The previous owner tells me he is a mixed breed (pointer,
lab, and pit) and is 3 years old. Jeebus is a very happy dog, never shows
any agression toward humans, is kindly tolerent of kids, and is generally
working out well. He seems pretty smart in picking up on things. Like if he
is sniffing around the table while we eat and I tell him to go lay down, he
does. ~ We live on about 2 acres of land most of which is lawn. There are
woods nearby but also some moderatly heavily traveled roads.

There are three humans in the house and my Dad is retired. So Jeebus' daily
routine is pretty much: He sleeps inside, either in the living room or in my
room -- his choice. I get up and have coffee, talk, etc. paying some
attention to the dog. I take him for a good long walk where he does his
business and gets to smell all the animals (deer, rabits, other dogs, etc)
that are around. I feed him before I go to work. ~ My dad is usually around
and Jeebus is sometimes inside, sometimes tied out. In the afternoon my dad
takes him for a walk and/or to the dog-park where he plays and wrestles with
other dogs. ~ By the time I get home from work Jeebus has been fed again and
is in for the night.

He's been to the vet. Got a check-up and all is well. He's on heat-worm
preventative and also FrontLine for ticks. (Lots of ticks around and he
often has them on him after a walk). Fortunately the ticks are easy to spot
on his short white hair.

He has on occasion gotten agressive with other dogs. But mostly 95% of the
time/dogs he plays very well with them.

We are all getting along very well. I didn't want to put a lot of pressure
on anyone at first -- thinking it would be better to just relax with the
situation for a while. ~ Oh, and last week he was neutered, which has not
so far seemed to effect his behavior in any way.


QUESTION -- HE RUNS OFF IF NOT ON THE LEASH:
My biggest problem with him is that when he is off the leash he runs off.
It's not every time or all the time. If I'm playing keep-away with him (his
favorite game) he'll keep playing with me. And it's not like he bolts the
moment I take him off the leash. But if 60 seconds goes by that I'm not
paying attention to him, well, it's like he realizes, "Hey, I'm free and I
remember all those amimal smells from my walk so I'm going to go check them
out." Then he runs into the woods or over into the brush. And no amount of
calling to him will get him to pay attention in the least. (But I know he
can hear me fine because when he's on the long leash he'll turn around when
I call his name.). ~ And I wouldn't mind him roaming around the woods or the
brush, except there are some roads not too far away. I don't want him to be
chasing some squirel accross the road and get hit. And also if he got the
secnt (or saw) one of the many deer around I'm afraid he could just keep
chasing it way into the woods and not come back.

So, what can I do about it? The best theory I have so far is to bring
treats on our walks and to every-so-often call him and give him a treat when
he comes. Hoping that he'll learn to come when I call.

Is this good? Is there anything else I can do?


QUESTION -- FOOD NEUTRITION:
I believe the previous owner was feeding him mostly dry food (kibble?). I
have been doing the same and my mom often has a little "extra" that we give
him. We don't feed from the table or the kitchen. I put it in his dish,
either with the dry-food or by itself. The "extra" is some of whatever meat
we are having. ~ When I asked him the vet said dry-food was fine.

Today I went to a "fancy" local pet store. This guy sells "raw diet" food.
It's basically frozen tubes of chopped up meat. Guy there said this is
closer to what dogs eat naturally and that a diet of this would help him be
healther, have a better coat, be more resistent to ticks, etc. etc.

I don't mind spending the money on this IF IT WOULD REALLY BE BETTER FOR THE
DOG. But I have no need to spend that money just to make me feel good.

So is dry OK? Is giving some of our extra "human" food? Maybe part of this
"raw" diet and part dry food?



QUESTION -- SHEDDING, ODOR, BATHS:

So this part is pretty minor: He sheds quite a bit. It's not bad because his
hair is short. But still, to keep the house clean I have to vacuum a little
each day. I don't mind, and if that's just how it is, then so be it. But I
see suppliments & oils that supposedly keep the coat healthier and reduce
shedding and reduce scratching.

So these work? Or maybe it's related back to the last question (diet)?

What about ODOR & baths. I've given him a coupld baths. When I first got him
his hair was pretty "greassy" and each time I pet him my hands felt oily.
Now after a few baths he feels smooth & clean. But maybe too much bathing is
not good?



THANKS for any help and suggestions,
Gary

Ok, so that was 3 main questions with lots of little ones.

To add another, anyone know specifically about the product Halo Dream Coat?

On Mon, 27 Nov 2006 15:00:57 -0500, "jabadoodle"
wrote:

Congtratulations on the new addition. Jeebus. I love that name!

QUESTION -- HE RUNS OFF IF NOT ON THE LEASH:

Is this good? Is there anything else I can do?

There are a couple of things you can do. One is of course to teach him
a really reliable recall. Your current tactic depends partly on how he
feels about food and how tempting the distractions are. As far as
rewards go I'd include other stuff that you know he likes, toys,
games, show him that turtle you just saw (my dogs have always been
fascinated by turtles...it's a rock.. it's alive... it's delightfully
weird). I expect you'll get several different methods for training a
reliable recall offered; look them over and see which one seems to fit
your situation. You're headed in the right direction but when you find
the right track, the recall method that is totally working for you, I
suggest you develop a new cue/command. So that it won't be diluted by
the fact that, let's face it, that recall has been OPTIONAL.

Another thing that may help, but requires some setup. If the area were
really truly safe I'd say... just leave when he leaves. Since there
are at least some safety concerns you might put him on a long, really
long, leash. Same one you'll use for any recall training based on "if
you don't stop and turn, you'll BE stopped." When he seems really
disengaged from you, tie your end of the long line to something (tying
a snap on one end makes this smooth and quick) and walk away from him.
If he sees you're going and follows, cool, tell him you're glad to see
him and maybe do something with him (game, command, whatever) and let
him wander on the long line again. If he really has forgotten all
about you, you keep going and you stay away. Preferably somewhere that
you can keep an eye on that area from. A surprising number of dogs
that don't keep an eye on you and don't mind you are actually very
trusting -- they know you won't leave without them, they know you're
pretty much where they left you. If you do and you aren't, these dogs
get very upset, and after you've come back (let him worry for a little
while), they learn that it is THEIR repsonsibilty to keep track of
where their owners are. I think someone else on this group uses this,
and can maybe give you a better idea of how to try it with this dog.

QUESTION -- FOOD NEUTRITION:

Some raw diets are excellent. Some raw diets are not. Some kibble is
good. Some kibbles are not so good. And, go figure, the magic formula
for one dog may not be so great for another.

Let the dog's condition be your guide. How's his coat, his energy
level, his weight? All that oil you washed out might have been a sign
that this kibble isn't right for him, or it may just mean that he
wasn't bathed for a long time or that he's always going to be a bit
oily no matter what you feed him. Give it some time and see what
balance his coat returns to a month after his last bath.

More important, how is his skin? Dry? Flaky? Itchy? Or just fine? I'd
start looking at coat supplements IF he needs some improvement here.
Of course you need to keep track of whether he has fleas or ticks; but
it seems that you are on top of that, so flea-bite dermatitis should
have been ruled out. If he's itchy or patchy you can test for "flea
dirt" -- little dark specks in his white coat are a sign that fleas
were here, and you can confirm it by dampening them with water. If
they turn rusty red, aha, that's blood you're seeing and the dog has
been flea-bitten.

If he's doing well on his current diet, I'd say why change it? I'll be
the raw diet is tasty and he'd probably love it, but neither of us
knows how nutritionally complete it really is.

Oh and as for the raw diet being natural, turn on the nature channel
and look at the coats and condition on those all-natural wild animals.
They vary a lot, too, and some of them do NOT look like they are
eating right. Naturalness alone is not the answer.

QUESTION -- SHEDDING, ODOR, BATHS:

Yeah, this relates back to the diet. It can also relate to what care
he was given previously. AND, there can be reasons for skin troubles
that aren't about diet, or only a little about diet, just as no diet
cures excema or psoraisis in humans.

If the oil comes back, if he continues to be itchy despite the flea
and tick preventive, get a veterinarian's advice. There might be
something else wrong. And I don't think any of the coat supplements on
the market will harm him if they don't help, so, no harm in trying.
Allow at least a month, preferably 2 or 3, to see changes in coat and
skin condition from a change in diet.

Odor -- what does he smell like when he smells bad? Some kibble-fed
dogs smell like cornflake cereal. Hard not to think that's related to
the corn in their kibble diet. Others, even kibble-fed, just smell
nice and doggy and not at all unpleasant. Don't expect a dog to smell
like it's just come out of the salon every day, but a truly bad odor
that persists or comes back after bathing is something, again, to
discuss with the veterinarian. And a diet change is something to
consider IF there is a problem with odor.

Shedding can increase with stress, with seasonal changes, after a bath
with warm water, lots of things. Some shedding is indeed quite normal
and just something we put up with for the sake of our dogs. Kind of
like the hairs in my hairbrush, I guess. If you've just finished
giving him several baths to get him back to a clean slate, you might
have caused his shedding to increase. It would help if someone who
knows dogs and knows his type of dogs could look at him and say "yeah,
they all shed like that, bless 'em" or "that's excessive, you may have
a problem."
--------------------------------------
If you really need to email me, mow the lawn.

jabadoodle wrote:
He has on occasion gotten agressive with other dogs. But mostly 95% of the
time/dogs he plays very well with them.

Describe aggressive? What does he do? What does the other dog do?
Honestly, I wouldn't be taking a dog who had ANY real aggression issues
to a dog park. Certainly not until you have had him longer, have a more
solid relationship and a really solid recall


QUESTION -- HE RUNS OFF IF NOT ON THE LEASH:
My biggest problem with him is that when he is off the leash he runs off.
It's not every time or all the time. If I'm playing keep-away with him (his
favorite game) he'll keep playing with me. And it's not like he bolts the
moment I take him off the leash. But if 60 seconds goes by that I'm not
paying attention to him, well, it's like he realizes, "Hey, I'm free and I
remember all those amimal smells from my walk so I'm going to go check them
out." Then he runs into the woods or over into the brush. And no amount of
calling to him will get him to pay attention in the least. (But I know he
can hear me fine because when he's on the long leash he'll turn around when
I call his name.). ~ And I wouldn't mind him roaming around the woods or the
brush, except there are some roads not too far away. I don't want him to be
chasing some squirel accross the road and get hit. And also if he got the
secnt (or saw) one of the many deer around I'm afraid he could just keep
chasing it way into the woods and not come back.

So, what can I do about it? The best theory I have so far is to bring
treats on our walks and to every-so-often call him and give him a treat when
he comes. Hoping that he'll learn to come when I call.

Is this good? Is there anything else I can do?

How hard have you worked on having a really solid recall? It needs to
be started in a low distraction environment. And gradually build. And
until he had that, he's be talking the walks in the woods on a long
line. Chances are, at this point you simply can't compete for your
dog's attention with a deer or a squirrel. So don't put him in
positions where he gets a chance to choose. I'm sure you'd like for him
to have more freedom than that, but until you've built a solid
foundation, you'll just be teaching him that "come" has no meaning, and
that choosing to ignore you is very rewarding. Two rules for a recall -
never call the dog to you for something unpleasant and never call the
dog when you can't guarantee that he'll come. If you've ruined your cue
word, pick another and start again.


QUESTION -- FOOD NEUTRITION:
I believe the previous owner was feeding him mostly dry food (kibble?). I
have been doing the same and my mom often has a little "extra" that we give
him. We don't feed from the table or the kitchen. I put it in his dish,
either with the dry-food or by itself. The "extra" is some of whatever meat
we are having. ~ When I asked him the vet said dry-food was fine.

Today I went to a "fancy" local pet store. This guy sells "raw diet" food.
It's basically frozen tubes of chopped up meat. Guy there said this is
closer to what dogs eat naturally and that a diet of this would help him be
healther, have a better coat, be more resistent to ticks, etc. etc.

I don't mind spending the money on this IF IT WOULD REALLY BE BETTER FOR THE
DOG. But I have no need to spend that money just to make me feel good.

So is dry OK? Is giving some of our extra "human" food? Maybe part of this
"raw" diet and part dry food?


I use a really good quality kibble without corn, wheat or soy (and a
lot of preservatives) The thing is, dogs are natural scavengers. If you
wanted to really feed them a natural, species appropriate diet, you'd
have to be feeding scat and garbage.



QUESTION -- SHEDDING, ODOR, BATHS:

So this part is pretty minor: He sheds quite a bit. It's not bad because his
hair is short. But still, to keep the house clean I have to vacuum a little
each day. I don't mind, and if that's just how it is, then so be it. But I
see suppliments & oils that supposedly keep the coat healthier and reduce
shedding and reduce scratching.

So these work? Or maybe it's related back to the last question (diet)?

What about ODOR & baths. I've given him a coupld baths. When I first got him
his hair was pretty "greassy" and each time I pet him my hands felt oily.
Now after a few baths he feels smooth & clean. But maybe too much bathing is
not good?

The greasy and stinky could be because he was dirty, or because of a
very poor quality food (Ol Roy or something). If it comes back on the
better food and he is itchy, you might talk to your vet about the fact
he might have a systemic yeast infection or allergies. I had one little
rescue come in who would start stinking about half an hour after a bath
and it made your hands itch just to pet her. Holistic vet DXed yeast
and put her on olive leaf extract. It was amazing how quickly she
cleared up. But you should first of all get the opinion of your vet if
this continues to be an issue. BroomSandy

wrote:
HOWEDY sandy in OK "DEFINITELY NOT a Purely
Positive Trainer", ou pathetic miserable stinkin lyin dog
abusing punk thug coward active acute chronic long term
incurable mental case and professional dog trainin FRAUD
an SCAM ARTIST,

Oh no! Yet ANOTHER mental case and FRAUD! How is it POSSIBLE that
EVERYONE in here is an active acute chronic long term incurable mental
case and FRAUD?!?

The statistics on such a thing is ASTRONOMICAL!

Is AssHowe just making crap up again?!? GEE, what are the ODDS that a
proven liar and child molester is making things up?!

Anyone who believes this pervert is actually worse than he is...

1) Navigation:
http://groups.google.co.in/group/rec...4c554b7f05cab3


Dear your question about 'Skin Care' got me thinking. I know people
personally who have suffered due to this but I guess not everyone would
understand the challenges till faced with similar circumstances.
Anyways, I did a bit of research and found an article which says Skin
will be with you for the rest of your life. Your skin serves you and
your body in a number of ways. It aids in sensory perception, protects
you from injuries, provides a barrier against dehydration, assists in
temperature maintenance, removes toxic wastes, aids in the manufacture
of vitamin D, and provides structure to the organs and tissues within
your body.
The ultraviolet rays of the sun are damaging to your skin and to your
health. Sun exposure can lead to premature aging, sagging, wrinkles,
skin discoloration, and the development of cancer. And while a suntan
will eventually fade at the end of the summer, the damage to the skin
from sunlight will continue to accumulate over time. Take measures to
protect your skin from the sun and its damaging rays.
Skin care moisturizers smooth and soften skin and help to lock in its
natural moisture. They can be particularly soothing to dry or sensitive
skin. And they provide great protection for the skin during wet, cold,
or chapping (windy) weather.
Lifestyle: Your skin needs a good balance of vitamins, minerals, and
nutrients in order to function and remain healthy. Adequate exercise
helps improve circulation and move waste and nutrients through the
system. Eat a healthy diet and get plenty of exercise to keep your
skin, and the rest of your body in tip-top condition.
Skin Care Tip: Drink at least six to eight glasses of purified water
throughout the day to hydrate the skin and circulate essential
nutrients. Also avoid chlorinated pools and hot tubs. Chlorine is very
damaging to the skin. Get a shower filter to filter out the harmful
chemicals from your city water supply.

I found this article at
http://www.medical-health-care-infor...care-tips.html.
Maybe you would want to read more about it there. I hope it's helpful
in some way to you. Regards, Payal

Elizabeth --

Thanks for taking the time to read my long post and write yours. I really
appreciate it.

I think your idea of finding a really large/safe area so that I can let him
off the leash is a good one. I get the feeling that he runs off because he's
just not used to being off the leash. I think if he was off it for a while
and realized that he can just be near/around me as I walk -- doing what he
wants, but staying close -- well, that might be a good start. Also, the idea
that he might be trusting that I won't leave and will stay where I was seems
correct. It just seems like that is exactly what is happeneing. ~ This
morning I took him to the fenced in dog park and let him loose. No other
dogs were there. After a while I called to him so that we could leave. He,
of course, ignored me. So I closed the gate and walked away. After a while
he looked up and came to the gate. The look on his face with me 30 feet away
was, "What? You're not going to leave me here are you? Really??" It's like
he was totally surprised.

Diet & Coat: I don't think he has any fleas or flea bites. I don't think the
coat problem is fleas or even the ticks. And neither the coat or the odor is
too serious. Just I think it could be better. My guess is the old kibble he
used to get was not very good and also that he didn't get many baths. And
while my 3 baths probably cleaned him well, maybe it took tooooo much of the
oils from his skin. So now I'm thinking just a bath ever few weeks, some
good food, probably try a coat suppliment, and see where we're at in 3
months.

Again, thanks for your thoughts.
Gary

"Sandy in OK" wrote in message
ups.com...

Describe aggressive? What does he do? What does the other dog do?

I've seen aggression only twice myself. My dad saw it once but I won't
try to describe what he said. Here's what I've seen:

1 - Neighbor dog has a fenced in yard. Neighbor invited us over to play. The
dogs did the snif-get-to-know-you-thing and then didn't seem to want to
interact much. That's unusual as Jeebus usually likes to romp and play. But
not with this dog. But the other dog, Motti, really likes me. After a while
Motti comes over to me. Jeebus gets defensive / agressive. BUT NOTE: With
other dogs at the dog park, after Jeebus and the other dog(s) play a while
and get tired. I'll pet some of the other dogs and Jeebus does not get
aggressive.

2 - Different neighbor dog is around and lightly playing with Jeebus. All is
fine. Then the play calms down and they are just hanging out. I'm talking
witht the neighbor. Neigbor dog goes and picks up a chew-toy that Jeebus had
been working on before the neighbors came over. Jeebus immediately gets very
agressive - obviously defending HIS property.




How hard have you worked on having a really solid recall?

Not very hard. This is what I'm trying to learn. And the rest of your answer
helped.

It needs to be started in a low distraction environment.
And gradually build.
Chances are, at this point you simply can't compete for your dog's
attention...
So don't put him in positions where he gets a chance to choose.
Until you've built a solid foundation, you'll just be teaching him that
"come" has no meaning
never call the dog to you for something unpleasant
never call the dog when you can't guarantee that he'll come.
If you've ruined your cue word, pick another and start again.

Thanks. Those all make sense to me.
Well except the "guarantee" he'll come. But I get the point.


I use a really good quality kibble without corn, wheat or soy (and a
lot of preservatives) The thing is, dogs are natural scavengers. If you
wanted to really feed them a natural, species appropriate diet, you'd
have to be feeding scat and garbage.

OK. Thanks.

Yea, even before posting I had read here a bit and see that he seems a bit
over-zealous. That's ok by me. His choice, and usenet is a free-for-all. I
think I'll just stear clear, it's just not my prefered way of interacting
and there seems to be plenty of good advice that comes in a package I can
appreciate more.

God bless him.

"jabadoodle" wrote in message:

I get the feeling that he runs off because he's
just not used to being off the leash.

He runs off because he hasn't been trained to stick around near you when he
is off-leash, and come when called.

I think if he was off it for a while
and realized that he can just be near/around me as I walk -- doing what he
wants, but staying close -- well, that might be a good start.

Just realize that taking a dog to a fenced in off-leash area is no
substitute for training the dog to actually come when called. One of my
dogs is not 100% reliable off-leash, mostly because he finds other stuff out
there (foxes, to be exact) to be extremely interesting. We go to the dog
park 5 days a week, so it's not like he doesn't get a chance to run around.

After a while I called to him so that we could leave. He,
of course, ignored me.

This is a good way to mess up a recall. In this case, you taught him that
it is okay to blow you off. If he had come and you had left, it would've
shown him that good times end when he responds to a recall. What is the
incentive for him to come to you when called?

So I closed the gate and walked away. After a while
he looked up and came to the gate.

Some dogs respond to this, others don't. It gives you something to work
with.

So now I'm thinking just a bath ever few weeks, some
good food, probably try a coat suppliment, and see where we're at in 3
months.

If you live in an area that is cold and the house is heated, it can be
extremely dry indoors. This can affect the coat of the dog. I've had good
results from adding a little fish oil (and Vitamin E) to the dogs' diet.

Suja