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Need help with sick dog



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 16th 06, 05:14 AM
1seer7 1seer7 is offline
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First recorded activity by DogBanter: Dec 2006
Posts: 7
Unhappy Need help with sick dog

Hi,

My vet seems on the wrong track. I have a 10 year old dog, part wolf, part shepard.
She ran a high fever,high volumne frequent urination, runny nose. She got better with antibiotics. She showed a high White blood cell count and they thought she had a closed womb infection altho she did not present as swollen in her uterus. They did a spad and a leukemia test. Test on leukemia came back as negative. White blood cell count still increasing. Now they have discovered a mass of something in her chest cavity which is pushing her trachea (sp) sideways. They want to do an ultrasound and bi-op for possible:
cancer, abcess, granular mass. Seems to me they don't know what they are doing.
Would cancer, abcess, granular mass cause a high fever, frequent urination and runny nose? Anyone know anything about symptoms like this? She still has frequent urination but not like at first when she was urinating without being able to control it. Her liver, kidney etc comes back as normal. They say she is a special case.

I need some help.

1seer7
  #2  
Old December 16th 06, 06:39 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Sharon Too
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Posts: 664
Default Need help with sick dog

Now they have discovered a mass of something in her chest
cavity which is pushing her trachea (sp) sideways. They want to do an
ultrasound and bi-op for possible:
cancer, abcess, granular mass. Seems to me they don't know what they
are doing.


Medicine is not a black and white science. The only way to diagnose it is to
perform tests. In veterinary medicine the patient can't tell you what's
wrong. If you were ill, your doctor would also order the ultrasound, biopsy,
repeat blood tests along with a slew of other diagnostics.

Would cancer, abcess, granular mass cause a high fever, frequent
urination and runny nose?


It could.

Anyone know anything about symptoms like
this? She still has frequent urination but not like at first when she
was urinating without being able to control it. Her liver, kidney etc
comes back as normal. They say she is a special case.


Sounds like they're being honest with you. Sometimes with these cases you
have to rule out the most probable causes until you get to the least
probable and hopefully somewhere along the way you get your answer.

I need some help.



  #3  
Old December 16th 06, 02:05 PM
1seer7 1seer7 is offline
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First recorded activity by DogBanter: Dec 2006
Posts: 7
Default

Sounds like they're being honest with you. Sometimes with these cases you
have to rule out the most probable causes until you get to the least
probable and hopefully somewhere along the way you get your answer.

I know they are doing the best they can. I am sure they are being honest too.
I like my vet and its frustrating to them also. I was just hoping that someone
else would know what this was. After all the test money going out I will not
have "fix" money even if it can be fixed. Its frustrating that the tests cost
so much.

I guess I am hoping for someone to go 'yeah...that happened to me and it was this'.
What bothers me is the mixed symptoms. High fever, drippy nose...responds to
anitbiotics doesn't seem to go in hand with the 'probably cancer' thing. I had a Rott get cancer and she didn't ever get high fever, runny nose etc.

Thanks
  #4  
Old December 16th 06, 07:35 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
buglady
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Posts: 863
Default Need help with sick dog


"1seer7" wrote in message
...
I have a 10 year old dog, part wolf,part shepard.
She ran a high fever,high volumne frequent urination, runny nose. She
got better with antibiotics. She showed a high White blood cell count
and they thought she had a closed womb infection altho she did not
present as swollen in her uterus. They did a spad and a leukemia test.
Test on leukemia came back as negative. White blood cell count still
increasing. Now they have discovered a mass of something in her chest
cavity which is pushing her trachea (sp) sideways. They want to do an
ultrasound and bi-op for possible:cancer, abcess, granular mass. Seems

to me they don't know what they
are doing.

......piggybacking on Sharon's post as earthlink news servers were torched
for a week and a week's worth of posts were axed.........so I reposted some
of the original post I picked up from Google.

.........I was going to say get your dog tested for tick disease or
Leptospirosis until you mentioned the mass. I'm wondering if ultrasound
will really do any good, as it can't see through bone. How did they
discover this mass? Can you feel or see it on the front of the neck above
the bony bits? Any trouble breathing? Has your vet mentioned how the heart
is? Possibilities also include a cardiac tumor unfortunately. Above the
bony parts in the lower neck are the thyroid glands and I'm sure there's
also lymph glands, which makes me wonder about lymphoma. I don't have a
good url for dog anatomy, but I think the thymus would be lower and covered
by bony structure. There is such a thing as thymus gland tumors, some of
which are benign (you can click on other article links to right):
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...PubMed&list_ui
ds=3898533&dopt=Abstract

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...us&db=pubmed&c
md=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=6885604

........If they have not yet done an X-ray, I sure would start there as it
just may not be accessible by ultrasound. People who do ultrasound are
always wishing for ribless dogs as they can't see some of the abdominal
organs very well.
..........Have they done a urinalysis? You say liver tests are OK, but what
about kidney? What was the name of the antibiotic that worked and how long
was the dog on it? I suppose the mass could be some kind of abcess and
wonder if the dog shouldn't just be put on high dose antibiotics to see what
happens. And what do you mean by "better" on antibiotics - she quit peeing
so much and fever went down, or did the white count go down also? Any of
these symptoms returned now? Is she eating OK?

Leptospirosis:
http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body...ospirosis.html
http://www.vet.uga.edu/vpp/clerk/noel/

I know they are doing the best they can. I am sure they are being
honest too. I like my vet and its frustrating to them also. I was just

hoping that
someone else would know what this was.


.........these situations are horribly stressful, and unfortunately
expensive, as they look at the most likely first and have to keep going down
the list. Hope they can find out what it is and it's fixable. At this
point that may be an abcess followed by a benign thymus tumor.

.......You can also post in alt.med.veterinary, only it's pretty dead over
there at the moment.

all the best to you and your pup
buglady
take out the dog before replying


  #5  
Old December 17th 06, 01:45 AM
1seer7 1seer7 is offline
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Posts: 7
Default

[quote=1seer7] They found the mass via Xray. Its sitting behind her heart and pushing her trachea down behind the shoulder area sideways (about 1/2 way between her backbone and sidewall). The ultra sound was way too expensive they are saying around 900.+ and that doesn't include treatment IF it can be treated. Heart is beating harder on right side due to being pushed sideways by mass. Her heart rate at this time is good. Cannot see or feel it from outside (the part they were supposed to xray was on the other side)

All her kidney and liver functions are top notch. They were a bit surprised they were so good due to her age. She is 48% wolf / 52% sheperd and I am wondering if that makes some difference. Her WBC went down on the first round of antibiotics but then started climbing again later. Her fever has now went away but her nose still drippy here and there. Altho here and there she gets a slight low grade fever. One of the things that they mentioned it might be is abcess. The vet is going to try some new kind of medicine. When they called with the ultra sound/bi-op cost ....I said I will have to put her down when she reaches discomfort. We have already spent upwards to 700-800. We don't have $2000 or more so to do that plus try to treat.

I put her on steak diet immediately on her first sign of VERY ill. I finally got her onto Natural and Iams canned dog food with some steak during the week. She of course wolfs the cooked steak down and eats most of the canned food. I tried to use the best quality dog food I could find for her.

Thank you for your comments and well wishes buglady.
  #6  
Old December 17th 06, 01:48 AM
1seer7 1seer7 is offline
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First recorded activity by DogBanter: Dec 2006
Posts: 7
Default

[quote=1seer7][quote=1seer7] They found the mass via Xray. Its sitting behind her heart

ps
sorry... sitting in front of her heart....and to side of. Her WBC is extremely high.

it was 121 last time we checked a week or so ago. normal highest is 19 so you can see how far out of normal she is
  #7  
Old December 17th 06, 03:25 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Lynne
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Posts: 2,609
Default Need help with sick dog

on Sun, 17 Dec 2006 01:45:35 GMT, 1seer7
wrote:

They found the mass via Xray. Its sitting behind her heart and
pushing her trachea down behind the shoulder area sideways (about 1/2
way between her backbone and sidewall). The ultra sound was way too
expensive they are saying around 900.+ and that doesn't include
treatment IF it can be treated. Heart is beating harder on right side
due to being pushed sideways by mass. Her heart rate at this time is
good. Cannot see or feel it from outside (the part they were supposed
to xray was on the other side)

All her kidney and liver functions are top notch. They were a bit
surprised they were so good due to her age. She is 48% wolf / 52%
sheperd and I am wondering if that makes some difference. Her WBC

went
down on the first round of antibiotics but then started climbing again
later. Her fever has now went away but her nose still drippy here and
there. Altho here and there she gets a slight low grade fever. One

of
the things that they mentioned it might be is abcess. The vet is

going
to try some new kind of medicine. When they called with the ultra
sound/bi-op cost ....I said I will have to put her down when she
reaches discomfort. We have already spent upwards to 700-800. We
don't have $2000 or more so to do that plus try to treat.

I put her on steak diet immediately on her first sign of VERY ill. I
finally got her onto Natural and Iams canned dog food with some steak
during the week. She of course wolfs the cooked steak down and eats
most of the canned food. I tried to use the best quality dog food I
could find for her.

Thank you for your comments and well wishes buglady.


Since the mass has already been identified, has the option of surgical
removal been discussed?

--
Lynne

http://picasaweb.google.com/what.the.hell.is.it/
  #8  
Old December 17th 06, 06:18 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
buglady
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Posts: 863
Default Need help with sick dog


"Lynne" wrote in message
m...
Since the mass has already been identified, has the option of surgical
removal been discussed?


.......Lynne, and the OP,
They know there's a mass, but probably not much else. I would imagine
that's why they wanted to do ultrasound, to determine exactly what the mass
consists of, though I still can't figure out how they're going to see
through those bones. I can't say for sure about X-rays, but I'm pretty sure
that an ultrasound can distinguish between liquid and solid. So, right this
minute they might not know if it's a huge pus filled bag or a solid tumor.
I have no direct experience with internal abcesses this large in dogs. I
did know a woman who had a large abcess on her liver and I think they tried
to shrink it first with antibiotics before they did surgery. If it would
have burst she would have died from overwhelming toxemia. I think there was
even some risk during surgery of this happening. Honestly I don't know
that I'd want them poking holes in it to try to get a biopsy - makes me a
bit nervous. I would imagine it was the elevated white count and fever
which led them to believe it may not be a solid tumor.

It does seem to make the most sense to try some kind of heavy duty
antibiotic and see if there's any kind of shrinkage. That might give them
an idea what they're dealing with. There's certainly risks any way you go.
I'd ask the vet if they'd repeat X-ray a week(?) after meds start.

buglady
take out the dog before replying


  #9  
Old December 17th 06, 06:30 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Lynne
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Posts: 2,609
Default Need help with sick dog

on Sun, 17 Dec 2006 18:18:12 GMT, "buglady"
wrote:

They know there's a mass, but probably not much else. I would imagine
that's why they wanted to do ultrasound, to determine exactly what the
mass consists of, though I still can't figure out how they're going to
see through those bones. I can't say for sure about X-rays, but I'm
pretty sure that an ultrasound can distinguish between liquid and
solid.


Yes, ultrasound can determine if a mass is solid or liquid filled. Bones
shouldn't be an issue, since echocardiograms (ultrasounds of the heart)
are a routine diagnostic procedure, and it is done through the chest
plate. The transducers can be applied to shoot sound waves from
different angles, too (such as up under the ribs or down from the
throat).

What I'm wondering is why it's going to cost $900? That's very steep in
my experience. Or are they talking about doing an intratracheal
ultrasound? The cost for those is definitely higher. Perhaps the OP can
get a recommendation from his vet of a clinic or emergency vet hospital
that has their own ultrasound machine and a technician or doctor who is
skilled in using it so the cost of the test might be less prohibitive.

--
Lynne

http://picasaweb.google.com/what.the.hell.is.it/
  #10  
Old December 17th 06, 09:56 PM
1seer7 1seer7 is offline
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First recorded activity by DogBanter: Dec 2006
Posts: 7
Unhappy

Lynne Wrote
Since the mass has already been identified, has the option of surgical
removal been discussed?


Well Lynne, they see it on xray but unless I spend over 900 more dollars, they
don't know what kind of mass it is. Could be cancer, abcess or grangular.
I have already spend upwards towards 800. The 900 more for the ultrasound, bi-op doesn't even cover to treat her after they decide what it is!

I need a dog HMO for gripes sake. Its crazy what you have to pay to just take tests.
I can take her to Purdue but even then its going to be upwards towards 1500. just to find out!

I am so depressed over this situation.
 




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