And he started it!

At Maui's last Recall and Retrieval Class, the trainer brought her
8-year-old intact female Belgian Sheepdog to meet Maui, thinking they'd get
along. He took a few sniffs (while on lead) then started to growl/snap at
her. In response, she growled and snapped back, getting him by the neck and
making him cry like a baby for a minute afterward. The trainer and I were
right there and she grabbed her dog quickly. After we got them both settled
down, class started and then proceeded as normal. We made sure to keep them
apart and not let Maui near any dogs (since he started it). Now I am
worried about future incidents and what I can do to help him not be such a
big meanie. I am not sure if he is scared, feels threatened, sick or what
but I want it to never happen again. There wasn't treats/toys/anything else
involved, just the two dogs. They never met before today. Maui's done the
growl/snarl at another dog at the same dog class before so I was always
careful with his interactions. The difference was that the other dog never
cared and just backed away from Maui, never tried to fight back. This was
the first time, a dog tried to fight back. I trying not to overreact but I
don't want to shrug it off as nothing either. Is what Maui's doing
considered "dog aggression"? If so, what can I do? In the past, I
reinforced (with praise not treats) his good interactions and told him
"niiiice, be niiiice". What else should I be doing? THANKS for any advice.

One can tell what an idiot this guy is by the the use of "Naaaaah"'s.

Are you going to trust your dog's well-being to such a juvenile child
molester?



wrote:
HOWEDY mauijnp you pathetic miserable stinkin
dog abusing punk thug coward active acute chronic
long term incurable mental case,

MauiJNP wrote:
And he started it!

At Maui's last Recall and Retrieval Class, the trainer brought her
8-year-old intact female Belgian Sheepdog to meet Maui, thinking
they'd get along.

That's curiHOWES, AIN'T IT, that a "trainer" would THINK her
dog "MIGHT get along" especially with a OPPOSITE SEX
"STUDENT".

He took a few sniffs (while on lead) then started to growl/snap at her.

Naaaah?

In response, she growled and snapped back,

Naaaah?

getting him by the neck and making him cry like a baby for a minute afterward.

Naaaaaah?

wrote:
HOWEDY mauijnp you pathetic miserable stinkin
dog abusing punk thug coward active acute chronic
long term incurable mental case,

Oh, here we go again. How is it even possible that everyone in here is
an acute chronic long term incurable mental case?

Do you even realize the odds?

When YOU are the ONLY "active acute chronic long term mental case" in
here...

Delete what seems to be a thousand lines...

MauiJNP wrote:
I trying not to overreact but I
don't want to shrug it off as nothing either. Is what Maui's doing
considered "dog aggression"? If so, what can I do? In the past, I
reinforced (with praise not treats) his good interactions and told him
"niiiice, be niiiice". What else should I be doing? THANKS for any advice.

That's one of those "It's impossible to tell without seeing it"
things. However, it's possible that Maui just doesn't like
strangers or space invaders, and that it's got nothing to do with
dog aggression. How does he behave with strange dogs when they keep
their distance? Does he only get snarky when they get close?
Also, what about when he's off-lead? Does he only react when he's
leashed?

--
Shelly (Warning: see label for details)
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)

I trying not to overreact but I don't want to shrug it off as nothing
either. Is what Maui's doing considered "dog aggression"? If so, what
can I do? In the past, I reinforced (with praise not treats) his good
interactions and told him "niiiice, be niiiice". What else should I be
doing? THANKS for any advice.

That's one of those "It's impossible to tell without seeing it" things.
However, it's possible that Maui just doesn't like strangers or space
invaders, and that it's got nothing to do with dog aggression.

if that's the case, is it possible to work on that? or will he always be
like that?


How does he behave with strange dogs when they keep their distance?

He never barks/growls/snaps unless they are pretty close to him. What
happens is that he gets excited, like he wants to play with them, then they
start sniffing each other and at some point Maui will growl (then snap if
they don't back away). He doesn't always do that, only sometimes.
Sometimes, he just sniffs the other dog and then moves on.


Does he only get snarky when they get close? Also, what about when he's
off-lead?

he is usually not snarky off lead but in the second dog class, he did
growl/snap at one dog while off lead. He was kind of backed into a corner
and two big dogs were very close to him. They were all sniffing each other
and then Maui growled/snapped at one of them. Luckily they didn't care and
I just grabbed Maui and didn't let him play again.


Does he only react when he's leashed?


yes, except for the one situation mentioned above.

"MauiJNP" wrote in message:

yes, except for the one situation mentioned above.

Has he only reacted to dogs much larger than himself this way? Does it seem
to happen in any particular place?

Snapping at a dog that is intruding on his space (like when he was
cornered), I don't consider to be an issue. Snapping at a dog that is
behaving appropriately towards him is a whole another thing.

Suja

yes, except for the one situation mentioned above.

Has he only reacted to dogs much larger than himself this way?

mostly but one time at the pet store, he snapped at a dog who was about his
same size.



Does it seem
to happen in any particular place?


it happened at the dog class (2-3 times), at the pet store (twice on the
same occasion and once another time) and the park (one time on one
occasion).



Snapping at a dog that is intruding on his space (like when he was
cornered), I don't consider to be an issue.


ok, but is there a way to get him to learn to deal with the space invaders
better? so far, I've just been giving praise for good behavior and trying
to stop the interactions before they go bad (to keep them positive).



Snapping at a dog that is
behaving appropriately towards him is a whole another thing.


how can I tell the difference between the acceptable behavior on the other
dog's part and the non-acceptable behaviors? for example, is sniffing ok?
is nudging? nudging to smell the privates? sniffing/licking the
belly/privates? getting near his face/mouth?

"MauiJNP" wrote in message
...
I trying not to overreact but I don't want to shrug it off as nothing
either. Is what Maui's doing considered "dog aggression"? If so, what
can I do? In the past, I reinforced (with praise not treats) his good
interactions and told him "niiiice, be niiiice". What else should I be
doing? THANKS for any advice.

That's one of those "It's impossible to tell without seeing it" things.
However, it's possible that Maui just doesn't like strangers or space
invaders, and that it's got nothing to do with dog aggression.

if that's the case, is it possible to work on that? or will he always be
like that?


How does he behave with strange dogs when they keep their distance?

He never barks/growls/snaps unless they are pretty close to him. What
happens is that he gets excited, like he wants to play with them, then
they start sniffing each other and at some point Maui will growl (then
snap if they don't back away). He doesn't always do that, only sometimes.
Sometimes, he just sniffs the other dog and then moves on.


Does he only get snarky when they get close? Also, what about when he's
off-lead?

he is usually not snarky off lead but in the second dog class, he did
growl/snap at one dog while off lead. He was kind of backed into a corner
and two big dogs were very close to him. They were all sniffing each
other and then Maui growled/snapped at one of them. Luckily they didn't
care and I just grabbed Maui and didn't let him play again.


Does he only react when he's leashed?


yes, except for the one situation mentioned above.

Perhaps he is snapping at dogs that get too close to YOU, rather than dogs
that invade HIS space. Could be just a couple inches too close that sets
him off.

You might not want to try this, and I'd certainly understand, but I wonder
if he'd be less nasty if you let the leash out slightly when he meets
another dog. Then watch closely. If he growls and snaps, is it happening
when the dog tries to pass Maui and get closer to you? Even if the other
dog is actually just sniffing Maui and not intentionally getting close to
you, if you know what I mean.

flick 100785

Perhaps he is snapping at dogs that get too close to YOU, rather than dogs
that invade HIS space. Could be just a couple inches too close that sets
him off.


could be that, I will have to watch more closely to see though



You might not want to try this, and I'd certainly understand, but I wonder
if he'd be less nasty if you let the leash out slightly when he meets
another dog. Then watch closely. If he growls and snaps, is it happening
when the dog tries to pass Maui and get closer to you? Even if the other
dog is actually just sniffing Maui and not intentionally getting close to
you, if you know what I mean.


maybe I can let another person (dog trainer maybe) be closeby and/or holding
the leash. that way if he does snap/growl, there's someone close to the
situation to assist with the breakup

Sounds like this is fixable. I don't want to sound mean, but I think you
are part of the problem. The "Be niiice" or grabbing him, is reinforcing
his feeling that there's something wrong with other dogs. Especially other
dogs around you. And he feels empowered to act that way.


ok.


If he lets other dogs have a little sniff, redirect him after a couple of
seconds &/or walk away.

this is what I think I have been doing, letting him sniff and then redirect
before anything bad happens. I want to keep the experiences positive. is
this right?


You need to feel confident & in control.

This is something we've had to work on with Bella, so we have to do more
socialization, spend more time walking around other dogs, paying attention
to her reactions and redirecting her if she stiffens or gives "the eye" or
growls or lifts a lip. We remind her with a quick noise distraction that
this is not acceptable. If she persists, we'll touch her to get her
atention, but if she doesn't react immediately, we move away and she has
to do a sit/stay or a down or some behavior that tells us that she's
paying attention to us.


ok, sounds doable.

The problem, in my limited understanding is that we were training (each
other) in bad behavior. Because humans weren't reacting properly/quickly
and consistently, the dog thought we were training her to be aggressive on
leash.


yikes, I don't want that either.


Of course, YMMV, and goD knows I'm no great trainer.
--



thanks for the input