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Retrieve



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 19th 06, 10:43 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Sandy in OK
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Posts: 788
Default Retrieve


I teach a retrieve with (wouldn't you know it) a clicker. We start by
targeting a stick/straw/bic pen with the nose. C/T as they touch it. As
soon as they think they really know what you want (touching) you
withhold the click. This generally elicits what Sue Ailsby calls the
"hey Stupid!" moment. "Hey stupid - did you not see me do that!" and
generally at that point the dog makes the behavior "bigger" by biting
the target. Click and jackpot. Start letting them get it higher, lower,
etc. Off a bench, off my knee, off the floor. I found out Sue starts
about the same way except she teaches the dog how to carry different
objects before removing her hands. Credit cards with front teeth
gently, db behind the canines, rope in the jaw teeth. I can generally
go from starting to target to a full length retrieve (no front, finish
or wait) in about an hour total training time (approx. 5 minute
sessions). And I don't name the behavior take it until it is what I
want. I also back off on the retrieving while they are teething,
because I don't want them to associate it with pain. BroomSandy

  #2  
Old December 20th 06, 12:47 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Sandy in OK
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Posts: 788
Default Retrieve


montana wildhack wrote:
On 2006-12-19 16:43:54 -0500, "Sandy in OK" said:

I teach a retrieve with (wouldn't you know it) a clicker. We start by
targeting a stick/straw/bic pen with the nose. C/T as they touch it. As
soon as they think they really know what you want (touching) you
withhold the click. This generally elicits what Sue Ailsby calls the
"hey Stupid!" moment. "Hey stupid - did you not see me do that!" and
generally at that point the dog makes the behavior "bigger" by biting
the target. Click and jackpot. Start letting them get it higher, lower,
etc. Off a bench, off my knee, off the floor. I found out Sue starts
about the same way except she teaches the dog how to carry different
objects before removing her hands. Credit cards with front teeth
gently, db behind the canines, rope in the jaw teeth. I can generally
go from starting to target to a full length retrieve (no front, finish
or wait) in about an hour total training time (approx. 5 minute
sessions). And I don't name the behavior take it until it is what I
want. I also back off on the retrieving while they are teething,
because I don't want them to associate it with pain. BroomSandy


Thank you for the response. I'm seeing the biting/potential taking
part, but not the hold it and bring it to me. Maybe that comes with
higher levels of, "Hey Stupid - Where's my treat!"

I hate to seem dense, but I really need to get a clear picture in my
mind because I didn't really get it the first time around with Bella.
Diddy sent me some good (and similar) information. Her info. did not
mention credit cards, etc. so that added to my bigger
picture/understanding. I hadn't considered the teething issue.

And that's interesting about the time spent (half an hour a day for one
session with each puppy). I'm assuming you do this over the course of
several days, several times a day...

Not sure if you were referring to me on the half hour a day for one
session. I think I said 5 minutes. I never do a half hours worth of
anything with a puppy, and seldom with an adult dog. but you can do a
couple of sessions a day. If the dog is doing exactly what I want, I
may quit before the five minutes. For instance if I get that "hey
stupid" moment where the dog bites down for the first time - I'm
celebrating and quitting there - let them think about it. In order to
get the bite-down, the dog has to really understand what is being
reinforced and be giving you lots of reps. (Oh, and remove the target
in between or you are likely to get more touches than you can
reinforce) Once the dog is biting, you don't reinforce nose touches any
longer. Only bites. And up your criteria for more bites to a click,
longer bites. Once the dog is biting long enough to be holding it, I'll
gently remove my hands from the object - just below the object and
allow them to drop it in my hands for a click. Gradually my hands get
farther away, so the dog actually has to work to put the object IN my
hands to get a click. Before Sue does this (her dogs are her service
animals) she also teaches them the discrimination of how to hold
different objects. I have to admit, since I'm mostly concerned with a
formal obedience retrieve, I haven't messed with that but I need to.
Weather permitting I'll be going to another of Sue's seminars next
month and maybe I will understand better how to do that part. Hope that
makes sense. BroomSandy

  #3  
Old December 20th 06, 01:17 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Sandy in OK
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Posts: 788
Default Retrieve


montana wildhack wrote:
On 2006-12-19 18:47:17 -0500, "Sandy in OK" said:

Once the dog is biting long enough to be holding it, I'll
gently remove my hands from the object - just below the object and
allow them to drop it in my hands for a click. Gradually my hands get
farther away, so the dog actually has to work to put the object IN my
hands to get a click. Before Sue does this (her dogs are her service
animals) she also teaches them the discrimination of how to hold
different objects.


Ah, that helps.

And the time frame was mine, not yours. Five puppies x 5 minutes a day
and we're easily into a half hour. Then you suggest it will take an
hour for a good trainer to accomplish this, so that's 12 sessions...
--

Ah . . . gotcha.

 




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