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Messing In Kennel



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 3rd 07, 04:18 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Snackle
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 14
Default Messing In Kennel

Hi there. I am very new at the group thing...and have never been
involved in one so forgive me if I am not going about this correctly.

My husband and I just purchased a new puppy (the fourth of our
four-legged furry friends)....anyhow it is a german short hair/ lab
cross and will be trained as my husbands second hunting companion.

Anyhow...we got her at 6 weeks and she is now 9 weeks....for the last
three weeks she has been pooping in her kennel non-stop and we are
constantly having to clean her and the mess in the kennel....since she
steps, lays in it etc.... Anyhow in all other areas she seems to be
doing fine even with not going in the house.....but we are NOT sure how
to get her to stop this. She appears to have a nervous condition with
the kennel...that may trigger the pooping? Is that possible? Someone
who has been there please help.........

Snackle

  #2  
Old January 3rd 07, 04:22 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Janet B
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,260
Default Messing In Kennel

On 3 Jan 2007 07:18:49 -0800, "Snackle" , clicked
their heels and said:
Anyhow...we got her at 6 weeks and she is now 9 weeks....for the last
three weeks she has been pooping in her kennel non-stop


Can you define non-stop? How frequently? What consistency? How long
is she crated for at a stretch? Does it happen more during one period
of time than another? Where is her kennel? What is she fed? Has she
been wormed?

She appears to have a nervous condition with
the kennel...that may trigger the pooping? Is that possible?


Sure, anything is possible. How does she act nervous in/about the
kennel? What hours is she in there, where is it located, how does she
display her anxiety (other than the pooping)?
--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
  #3  
Old January 3rd 07, 04:41 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Snackle
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 14
Default Messing In Kennel

She Acts nervous because she cries.......we have her kennel in the
basement in a utility because she keeps us up all night....we have a
radio for her down there. But there are times when she does not cry
and sleeps in there as well so she isn't nervous all the time I don't
think. We have never used her kennel as a means of punishment or
anything like that and so she couldn't relate that to anything
negative. We keep her in there during the day which is a long
stretch of 8 hours because we can';t run home at our lunch hour...so we
are understanding that she is messing in there during the day....but
the evenings is when we are concerned because she is let out
periodically and goes outside and as soon as she is put in her kennel
minutes later sometimes she has messed.
Janet B wrote:
On 3 Jan 2007 07:18:49 -0800, "Snackle" , clicked
their heels and said:
Anyhow...we got her at 6 weeks and she is now 9 weeks....for the last
three weeks she has been pooping in her kennel non-stop


Can you define non-stop? How frequently? What consistency? How long
is she crated for at a stretch? Does it happen more during one period
of time than another? Where is her kennel? What is she fed? Has she
been wormed?

She appears to have a nervous condition with
the kennel...that may trigger the pooping? Is that possible?


Sure, anything is possible. How does she act nervous in/about the
kennel? What hours is she in there, where is it located, how does she
display her anxiety (other than the pooping)?
--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com


  #4  
Old January 3rd 07, 04:41 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Snackle
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 14
Default Messing In Kennel

She Acts nervous because she cries.......we have her kennel in the
basement in a utility because she keeps us up all night....we have a
radio for her down there. But there are times when she does not cry
and sleeps in there as well so she isn't nervous all the time I don't
think. We have never used her kennel as a means of punishment or
anything like that and so she couldn't relate that to anything
negative. We keep her in there during the day which is a long
stretch of 8 hours because we can';t run home at our lunch hour...so we
are understanding that she is messing in there during the day....but
the evenings is when we are concerned because she is let out
periodically and goes outside and as soon as she is put in her kennel
minutes later sometimes she has messed.
Janet B wrote:
On 3 Jan 2007 07:18:49 -0800, "Snackle" , clicked
their heels and said:
Anyhow...we got her at 6 weeks and she is now 9 weeks....for the last
three weeks she has been pooping in her kennel non-stop


Can you define non-stop? How frequently? What consistency? How long
is she crated for at a stretch? Does it happen more during one period
of time than another? Where is her kennel? What is she fed? Has she
been wormed?

She appears to have a nervous condition with
the kennel...that may trigger the pooping? Is that possible?


Sure, anything is possible. How does she act nervous in/about the
kennel? What hours is she in there, where is it located, how does she
display her anxiety (other than the pooping)?
--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com


  #5  
Old January 3rd 07, 04:48 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Janet B
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,260
Default Messing In Kennel

On 3 Jan 2007 07:41:25 -0800, "Snackle" , clicked
their heels and said:

She Acts nervous because she cries....


Crying can be being lonely, confusion, discomfort, anxiety. I
wouldn't call that "nervous".

...we have her kennel in the
basement in a utility because she keeps us up all night....we have a
radio for her down there.


She's been isolated and she's a very young puppy. She would gain more
security being near you, or at the very least, your other dogs.

We keep her in there during the day which is a long
stretch of 8 hours because we can';t run home at our lunch hour...


It's irresponsible to do that to a puppy. Hire someone. Give her an
x-pen area and litterbox train her for now. But you cannot put her in
a crate all day and expect that she won't make a mess, and you're
conditioning her to accept being dirty.

so we
are understanding that she is messing in there during the day....


You shouldn't be understanding, you should understand that what you're
doing is not fair to her at all. She needs feeding midday, as well as
outings, and companionship.

but
the evenings is when we are concerned because she is let out
periodically and goes outside and as soon as she is put in her kennel
minutes later sometimes she has messed.


Letting a puppy out doesn't housebreak one. She probably goes out and
plays around then comes in and OOPS - she still needs to eliminate!
Not much choice but to go in her crate if that's where you're putting
her. TAKING her out, praising her for going as asked, teaching her to
live in the house, scheduling food and outings, does. She needs you
to step up to the plate and put some effort into raising her - puppies
don't know right from wrong on their own.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
  #6  
Old January 3rd 07, 05:06 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Snackle
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 14
Default Messing In Kennel

First of all I appreciate the advice and will definately do what I
can.....but it is unfair for you to judge that I do not take the time
with my puppy........we do not live in some big city that we can just
hire someone to be there with her during the day....we live in a tiny
town prractically in the middle of nowhere and in fact don't know many
people there especially ones who will stop over and let her out for
us.......and we DO definately give her LOTS and LOTS of attention and
we praise her also we love our animals and certainly woudn't want to do
anything that wasn't in their best interests..........as far as an
x-pen area....I am not even sure what that is unless it is just a fancy
term for a pen or exercise pen...???.....but would love to look into
something like that......if I could have a suggestion as to what type
of pen I should use for a dog who is growing like a weed and will not
be a small dog for long that would be super I would look into
that....... But we are NOT irresponsible...we just don't have the
resourses available and weren't prepared (or at least I wasn't) for a
puppy....my husband just brought her home from a business trip...and I
am left to find solutions on what to do for her....... We live in a
cold climate so she isn't left outside for long periods of time and she
is often too cold to do her business probably....I will however do
better about monitoring her out there and will work to praise her
more...,...I think we have started this off by you getting the wrong
picture in your head about me....I am not like those scums on animal
planet that torture their animals.....we really do love them......which
is why I am seeking advice!!!
Janet B wrote:
On 3 Jan 2007 07:41:25 -0800, "Snackle" , clicked
their heels and said:

She Acts nervous because she cries....


Crying can be being lonely, confusion, discomfort, anxiety. I
wouldn't call that "nervous".

...we have her kennel in the
basement in a utility because she keeps us up all night....we have a
radio for her down there.


She's been isolated and she's a very young puppy. She would gain more
security being near you, or at the very least, your other dogs.

We keep her in there during the day which is a long
stretch of 8 hours because we can';t run home at our lunch hour...


It's irresponsible to do that to a puppy. Hire someone. Give her an
x-pen area and litterbox train her for now. But you cannot put her in
a crate all day and expect that she won't make a mess, and you're
conditioning her to accept being dirty.

so we
are understanding that she is messing in there during the day....


You shouldn't be understanding, you should understand that what you're
doing is not fair to her at all. She needs feeding midday, as well as
outings, and companionship.

but
the evenings is when we are concerned because she is let out
periodically and goes outside and as soon as she is put in her kennel
minutes later sometimes she has messed.


Letting a puppy out doesn't housebreak one. She probably goes out and
plays around then comes in and OOPS - she still needs to eliminate!
Not much choice but to go in her crate if that's where you're putting
her. TAKING her out, praising her for going as asked, teaching her to
live in the house, scheduling food and outings, does. She needs you
to step up to the plate and put some effort into raising her - puppies
don't know right from wrong on their own.

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com


  #7  
Old January 3rd 07, 05:13 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Snackle
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 14
Default Messing In Kennel

Thank you Suja for the advice......it has been awhile since we have
been down this road with a puppy and honestly all the things you said
are things we once did.......now with a small child added to the mix we
are getting lazy and again like I said before I was not prepared for
the puppy.....I will start working on better solutions when I get home
this evening.....I will be back with updates.......still taking
suggestions on a type of pen to use since hiring someone to come seems
nearly impossible.......I do want to keep in mind ....she will not be
in the house forever...she will be an outside dog.....but is obviously
too small at this time.
Suja wrote:
"Snackle" wrote in message:

She Acts nervous because she cries.......we have her kennel in the
basement in a utility because she keeps us up all night....we have a
radio for her down there.


Dogs are pack animals. You are now her pack, and she's crying because she's
isolated from her pack. Part of puppy raising involves not getting any
sleep for a few months, so move her crate to where you sleep so she can
see/hear/smell you, set an alarm and wake up to take her out every 2-3
hours, or whenever she starts moving about/whining.

We keep her in there during the day which is a long
stretch of 8 hours because we can';t run home at our lunch hour...so we
are understanding that she is messing in there during the day....


By allowing her to mess in her crate during the day, you're teaching her
that it is okay for her to go in there. This is going to make housebreaking
the pup a lot more difficult in the long run. If you can't come home during
the day to let her out (and she probably needs to go out every 2-3 hours at
this point), hire someone (a dog walker, a neighborhood kid or retiree) to
help you out.

the evenings is when we are concerned because she is let out
periodically and goes outside and as soon as she is put in her kennel
minutes later sometimes she has messed.


You should not be letting her out, you take your pup out on leash. Puppies
have notoriously short attention spans, and while she may have gone out with
the intention of peeing, she may have been distracted by something, and only
remembered to relieve herself after coming back in. You need to stay out
there, and remind her of what she needs to do. Associating a cue with the
action is a good way to do this. You also need to let her know that she is
a very good pup for going outside, and praise/treat/play (whatever she
enjoys) as soon as she does her business. The other problem is that she is
learning that her kennel is the place where she needs to go, so it is no
wonder that she opts to go in there instead of outside. She has absolutely
no clue what is acceptable behavior, and you need to teach her.

Here is a good write-up on how to housetrain puppies:
http://www.ddfl.org/behavior/pup-housetrain.pdf

Suja


  #8  
Old January 3rd 07, 05:20 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Snackle
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 14
Default Messing In Kennel

Thank you Suja for the advice......it has been awhile since we have
been down this road with a puppy and honestly all the things you said
are things we once did.......now with a small child added to the mix we
are getting lazy and again like I said before I was not prepared for
the puppy.....I will start working on better solutions when I get home
this evening.....I will be back with updates.......still taking
suggestions on a type of pen to use since hiring someone to come seems
nearly impossible.......I do want to keep in mind ....she will not be
in the house forever...she will be an outside dog.....but is obviously
too small at this time.
Suja wrote:
"Snackle" wrote in message:

She Acts nervous because she cries.......we have her kennel in the
basement in a utility because she keeps us up all night....we have a
radio for her down there.


Dogs are pack animals. You are now her pack, and she's crying because she's
isolated from her pack. Part of puppy raising involves not getting any
sleep for a few months, so move her crate to where you sleep so she can
see/hear/smell you, set an alarm and wake up to take her out every 2-3
hours, or whenever she starts moving about/whining.

We keep her in there during the day which is a long
stretch of 8 hours because we can';t run home at our lunch hour...so we
are understanding that she is messing in there during the day....


By allowing her to mess in her crate during the day, you're teaching her
that it is okay for her to go in there. This is going to make housebreaking
the pup a lot more difficult in the long run. If you can't come home during
the day to let her out (and she probably needs to go out every 2-3 hours at
this point), hire someone (a dog walker, a neighborhood kid or retiree) to
help you out.

the evenings is when we are concerned because she is let out
periodically and goes outside and as soon as she is put in her kennel
minutes later sometimes she has messed.


You should not be letting her out, you take your pup out on leash. Puppies
have notoriously short attention spans, and while she may have gone out with
the intention of peeing, she may have been distracted by something, and only
remembered to relieve herself after coming back in. You need to stay out
there, and remind her of what she needs to do. Associating a cue with the
action is a good way to do this. You also need to let her know that she is
a very good pup for going outside, and praise/treat/play (whatever she
enjoys) as soon as she does her business. The other problem is that she is
learning that her kennel is the place where she needs to go, so it is no
wonder that she opts to go in there instead of outside. She has absolutely
no clue what is acceptable behavior, and you need to teach her.

Here is a good write-up on how to housetrain puppies:
http://www.ddfl.org/behavior/pup-housetrain.pdf

Suja


  #9  
Old January 3rd 07, 05:25 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Suja
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 873
Default Messing In Kennel


"Snackle" wrote in message:

She Acts nervous because she cries.......we have her kennel in the
basement in a utility because she keeps us up all night....we have a
radio for her down there.


Dogs are pack animals. You are now her pack, and she's crying because she's
isolated from her pack. Part of puppy raising involves not getting any
sleep for a few months, so move her crate to where you sleep so she can
see/hear/smell you, set an alarm and wake up to take her out every 2-3
hours, or whenever she starts moving about/whining.

We keep her in there during the day which is a long
stretch of 8 hours because we can';t run home at our lunch hour...so we
are understanding that she is messing in there during the day....


By allowing her to mess in her crate during the day, you're teaching her
that it is okay for her to go in there. This is going to make housebreaking
the pup a lot more difficult in the long run. If you can't come home during
the day to let her out (and she probably needs to go out every 2-3 hours at
this point), hire someone (a dog walker, a neighborhood kid or retiree) to
help you out.

the evenings is when we are concerned because she is let out
periodically and goes outside and as soon as she is put in her kennel
minutes later sometimes she has messed.


You should not be letting her out, you take your pup out on leash. Puppies
have notoriously short attention spans, and while she may have gone out with
the intention of peeing, she may have been distracted by something, and only
remembered to relieve herself after coming back in. You need to stay out
there, and remind her of what she needs to do. Associating a cue with the
action is a good way to do this. You also need to let her know that she is
a very good pup for going outside, and praise/treat/play (whatever she
enjoys) as soon as she does her business. The other problem is that she is
learning that her kennel is the place where she needs to go, so it is no
wonder that she opts to go in there instead of outside. She has absolutely
no clue what is acceptable behavior, and you need to teach her.

Here is a good write-up on how to housetrain puppies:
http://www.ddfl.org/behavior/pup-housetrain.pdf

Suja



  #10  
Old January 3rd 07, 05:26 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Janet B
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,260
Default Messing In Kennel

On 3 Jan 2007 08:06:43 -0800, "Snackle" , clicked
their heels and said:

First of all I appreciate the advice and will definately do what I
can.....but it is unfair for you to judge that I do not take the time
with my puppy......


I'm sorry, but it's not. Puppies can't just be put in a box for 8
hours. They're a big commitment and one that not everyone can take
on.

..we do not live in some big city that we can just
hire someone to be there with her during the day....we live in a tiny
town prractically in the middle of nowhere and in fact don't know many
people there especially ones who will stop over and let her out for
us.......


I bet if you called your vet's office, they may be able to point you
in the direction of someone you can HIRE. Petsitters exist a lot of
places, you'd be surprised. That's probably a good first attempt, but
if you have a local shelter, they may know too.

and we DO definately give her LOTS and LOTS of attention and
we praise her also we love our animals and certainly woudn't want to do
anything that wasn't in their best interests......


Your words were "we let her out", not "we take her out and make sure
she eliminates and praise her". The first doesn't get you very far
with housebreaking, while the second one does. You want to be
successful, so it's important to do whatever you can to make it so!

....as far as an
x-pen area....I am not even sure what that is unless it is just a fancy
term for a pen or exercise pen...???.....but would love to look into
something like that......if I could have a suggestion as to what type
of pen I should use for a dog who is growing like a weed and will not
be a small dog for long that would be super I would look into
that.......


X-pen is shorthand for exercise pen. You can buy them from many
online retailers. I personally would get the tallest and largest
possible - it can always be made smaller if needed, and can comform to
space. It's still not ideal, but it's better than a crate for 8
hours.

But we are NOT irresponsible...we just don't have the
resourses available and weren't prepared (or at least I wasn't) for a
puppy...


That says it all. Resources and preparedness are pretty huge when it
comes to bringing a living being into your life! One of the regulars
here had a surprise litter of puppies recently. Preparedness didn't
exist. She got into gear pretty fast though, to give those puppies
everything they need. Puppies need us to provide what they need. Not
always simple or convenient, but necessary!

.my husband just brought her home from a business trip...and I
am left to find solutions on what to do for her.......


Is *HE* helping with any of those solutions? ARGHHH - surprises are
such bad ideas so much of the time.

We live in a
cold climate so she isn't left outside for long periods of time and she
is often too cold to do her business probably....I will however do
better about monitoring her out there and will work to praise her
more...,..


That's essential. Take her out on leash (even if you have a fenced
yard). She needs to learn to eliminate first, play later. It can be
tough for a pup who has already learned to do the latter, but if you
are consistent, she'll get the hang of it. I generally give 5
minutes, then come back in and keep her with you for 5-10 minutes and
try again. She gets no freedom until she eliminates, when you know
she should need to (a benefit of meal scheduling). I would usually
say you can use the crate for this, but since she's already developed
her habit of eliminating in there, I would use a leash or gated or
closed doors.

.I think we have started this off by you getting the wrong
picture in your head about me....I am not like those scums on animal
planet that torture their animals.....we really do love them......which
is why I am seeking advice!!!


I don't think your scum and don't think you torture animals. But your
puppy needs an awful lot more than she's getting, so feedings,
outings, exercise, supervision, companionship - all of those things
are things you can change and make better, if you put forth the
effort. She's counting on you!

--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
 




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