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Upcoming Training Classes



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 4th 07, 02:02 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Lynne
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Default Upcoming Training Classes

Roxy is signed up for her first formal training class. Two, in fact, and
then we'll be going for her CGC. I got a referral to a PR trainer from
the behaviorist and we have exchanged a few emails. I also plan to go
observe one of her classes. I've never been to this type of trainer,
though I have taken my Shelties through basic formal training. I'm
pretty excited, even though we don't start until the end of next month.

Here is what she wrote to me in response to my questions:

"It's great to see that you're so interested in what type of training
methods we use. I wish that more people would ask this question. It
shows a concern for your animals. We use ALL positive reinforcement. We
don't use clickers, but we use something similar. Instead of a clicker,
we use a marker word. We find that it's much easier this way since with
clicker training, you always have to have a clicker handy so using a word
is much more convenient. We do NOT use leash corrections, shock collars,
or any other form of punishment. They only punishment that they would
receive would be ignoring, no treat, or a slight verbal correction ("ah
ah").

We don't require the use of any special collars. We do not allow choke
chains, pinch, or prong collars. You have the option of using a gentle
leader, which we sell in class."

I think Roxy will respond really well to this approach to training. (I
won't be using the GL, though.) I mostly only use praise with her,
sometimes rewards, definitely ignoring, and verbal as well as leash
corrections. She's not overly sensitive like one of my Shelties, but I'm
very interested in seeing how she comes along using the methods that will
be taught in this class. I've hit a wall with what I can do with her on
my own, but only because of my limited knowlege and skills, not her
ability. I have nothing at all against other forms of training, by the
way, I'm just excited about this approach.

--
Lynne

http://picasaweb.google.com/what.the.hell.is.it/

"First get your facts; then you may distort them at your leisure."
-- Mark Twain
  #2  
Old January 4th 07, 02:50 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Sandy in OK
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Posts: 788
Default Upcoming Training Classes


Lynne wrote:
We use ALL positive reinforcement. We
don't use clickers, but we use something similar. Instead of a clicker,
we use a marker word. We find that it's much easier this way since with
clicker training, you always have to have a clicker handy so using a word
is much more convenient. We do NOT use leash corrections, shock collars,
or any other form of punishment. They only punishment that they would
receive would be ignoring, no treat, or a slight verbal correction ("ah
ah").


Occasionally, I get a student who would rather use a word than a click.
And I let them. Usually by the second week, when they see how much
quicker the clicker dogs are progressing they change their minds. I
don't think a clicker is absolutely necessary for pet skills, but dogs
are used to not listening to our voice, and most people have very bad
habits about how they ask things from their dogs. I like to offer new
habits all the way around. Thing is, by the time the behavior is on cue
(anywhere from a day or so to a week, you can start switching to a
verbal marker anyway. When the dog understands what you want, you don't
need as precise a tool. I'm also slightly suspicious of people who
claim to use ALL positive reinforcement. There may be a few, but they
are rare. Even ignoring a dog is negative punishment.

We don't require the use of any special collars. We do not allow choke
chains, pinch, or prong collars. You have the option of using a gentle
leader, which we sell in class."


I don't know why so many "positive trainers" are so fond of a tool that
so many dogs find aversive. Overall doesn't sound like a bad class tho

  #3  
Old January 4th 07, 02:06 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Janet B
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Posts: 1,260
Default Upcoming Training Classes

On Wed, 03 Jan 2007 19:02:22 -0600, Lynne
, clicked their heels and said:

We use ALL positive reinforcement. We
don't use clickers, but we use something similar. Instead of a clicker,
we use a marker word. We find that it's much easier this way since with
clicker training, you always have to have a clicker handy so using a word
is much more convenient.


Verbal praise - what a novel idea! ;-D

We do NOT use leash corrections, shock collars,
or any other form of punishment. They only punishment that they would
receive would be ignoring, no treat, or a slight verbal correction ("ah
ah").


I'm always curious to know what they would do with a dog who was
aggressing,

We don't require the use of any special collars. We do not allow choke
chains, pinch, or prong collars. You have the option of using a gentle
leader, which we sell in class."


Only a GL? No martingale? Since she said chains, will she allow
nylon slip collars (I'm a stickler for detail)?

I have nothing at all against other forms of training, by the
way, I'm just excited about this approach.


I hope you enjoy the class! Setting aside time for just you and
your dog is always a very good thing.
--
Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
  #4  
Old January 4th 07, 04:29 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Lynne
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Posts: 2,609
Default Upcoming Training Classes

on Thu, 04 Jan 2007 13:06:43 GMT, Janet B
wrote:

Verbal praise - what a novel idea! ;-D


Tee hee.

I'm always curious to know what they would do with a dog who was
aggressing,


I'm hopeing that they recommend private lessons and ask them to leave
group...

Only a GL? No martingale? Since she said chains, will she allow
nylon slip collars (I'm a stickler for detail)?


It's funny, I asked the question because I found some classes in my
search that require the GL and I wanted no part of them. I can't imagine
a martingale or nylon slip would be prohibited, but you never know.

I hope you enjoy the class! Setting aside time for just you and
your dog is always a very good thing.


Thanks, Janet. I agree! Roxy is always so much happier when she gets
focused brain time.



--
Lynne

http://picasaweb.google.com/what.the.hell.is.it/

"First get your facts; then you may distort them at your leisure."
-- Mark Twain
  #5  
Old January 4th 07, 06:36 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Sandy in OK
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Posts: 788
Default Upcoming Training Classes


Janet B wrote:
I'm always curious to know what they would do with a dog who was
aggressing,


Umn, maybe work with the dog in a situation where the dog can have some
distance, and you can work with them with a stable dog who is under
control? Desensitize? Teach the dog to check in, teach the owner what
the dog's "tells" are so you can redirect him before he aggresses. Set
up situations where the dog can learn? The one thing I WOULDN'T do is
leave a seriously dog aggressive dog in a group class. Not fair to
anyone.

  #6  
Old January 4th 07, 06:43 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
shelly
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Default Upcoming Training Classes

Sandy in OK wrote:

The one thing I WOULDN'T do is leave a seriously dog aggressive
dog in a group class. Not fair to anyone.


"Dog who was aggressing" != "seriously dog aggressive" HTH!

--
Shelly (Warning: see label for details)
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)
  #7  
Old January 4th 07, 06:56 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Sandy in OK
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Posts: 788
Default Upcoming Training Classes


shelly wrote:
Sandy in OK wrote:

The one thing I WOULDN'T do is leave a seriously dog aggressive
dog in a group class. Not fair to anyone.


"Dog who was aggressing" != "seriously dog aggressive" HTH!

I don't consider every barky, reactive dog to be "aggressing." If the
dog is all noise, he'll be moved away from the other dogs, turned away,
put behind a barrier so he can't see the other dogs. And, if he was
unable to calm down enough to learn, and allow the other dogs to learn,
we would be doing non-group classes and helping the dog to cope before
mainstreaming. Unless I wanted to make Mr. Barkey Dog into Mr.
Seriously Aggressive Dog, I wouldn't be punishing him for it though.
Which seemed to be where Janet was having trouble understanding what
someone would do if they didn't use aversives in class.

  #8  
Old January 4th 07, 07:15 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
shelly
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Default Upcoming Training Classes

Sandy in OK wrote:
shelly wrote:
Sandy in OK wrote:

The one thing I WOULDN'T do is leave a seriously dog aggressive
dog in a group class. Not fair to anyone.


"Dog who was aggressing" != "seriously dog aggressive" HTH!


I don't consider every barky, reactive dog to be "aggressing." If the
dog is all noise, he'll be moved away from the other dogs, turned away,
put behind a barrier so he can't see the other dogs. And, if he was
unable to calm down enough to learn, and allow the other dogs to learn,
we would be doing non-group classes and helping the dog to cope before
mainstreaming. Unless I wanted to make Mr. Barkey Dog into Mr.
Seriously Aggressive Dog, I wouldn't be punishing him for it though.


I'm sorry. Barking?

Which seemed to be where Janet was having trouble understanding what
someone would do if they didn't use aversives in class.


Hm. I think you must have read a different post than the one I did.
The post I read did not involve any sort of complicated scenarios.

--
Shelly (Warning: see label for details)
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)
  #9  
Old January 4th 07, 08:09 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Tara
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Posts: 1,408
Default Upcoming Training Classes

elegy wrote in
:


removing the dog from the immediate area until the dog regains control
of himself and using lots of rewards for appropriate behavior and
attention has worked a lot lot lot better for me both with eeevil red
dog who is aggressive just for the hell of it and mushroom who
aggresses because he's a freaking weenie.


Nicely put. And far shorter than I probably would have written (edit? Moi?)

Tara

  #10  
Old January 4th 07, 10:02 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Sandy in OK
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Posts: 788
Default Upcoming Training Classes


shelly wrote:
I'm sorry. Barking?



She wanted to know what the instructor would do with an aggressive dog.
IF the dog is actually aggressive it doesn't belong in a group class
yet. If it is just a bit reactive but not aggressive (which many people
mistake for aggression) it might be managable in a group class - or
not. But even in that case, I wouldn't just stick it in the middle of
class and expect it to cope. Honestly, Shelly, I think you are being
deliberately obtuse because it is me posting. You are picking at words
and ignoring concepts. But, if those are the games you like to play, go
for it. I'll try to work around it. Sandy in OK

 




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