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Veterinary Specialty Center Misuse of Medication and Profit Gouging Killing a Dog



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 21st 07, 07:50 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
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Default Veterinary Specialty Center Misuse of Medication and Profit Gouging Killing a Dog

It has become harder and harder to care for pets due to the veterinary
medicine turning into making profits, not practicing medical care for
animals, and I have had a very bad experience that killed a beloved
companion for many years I feel I should share the medical details of.

The dog was an 11 year old who was one of the older dogs who is
fortunate enough to have a good chance to survive getting osteosarcoma,
which in older dogs is sometimes not aggressive such that there is a
case of a dog her age with just amputation who lived to 14, which is
not possible in 99% of the cases.

She was however unfortunately first handled by a McVet, which take
walkins without appointments, but are staffed with cheap no experience
vets without a supervisor for consultation and secondly, are turning
over patients such that they never really given them medical exams. So
the vet first told us off about her having arthritis assumed due to age
without an x-ray required to make the diagnosis, and secondly, then
went off the deep end with procedures that bankrupted and could not
possiblly help the dog who had cancer.

All of during which the same vet misused and misprescribd Rimidyl as
Pfizer has major internet warnings not to do because of killing animals
doing so, and violating every restriction the drug company put on it
use, such that when a more experienced vet amputated prior to
chemotherapyw hich is not cheap either, he cut her dose by 1/3
immediately.

But that was 4 months of the dog undergoing pain from bone destruction
and suffering and kidney damage later, which arose later this year.

Then we went to Veterinary Specialty, which opened up in 2001, as a
Mayo's for pets of specialists for chemotherapy to treat the dog, who
did well once she started chemo and came off the Rimidyl finally.

What they did not tell use either is that they use a more expensive
chemotherapy agent, carboplastin, than cisplatin, because it is less
dangerous to the dog anyway.

But that that agent if used in doses as effective as cisplatin, also
causes kidney damage.

So at no time were we told to watch the dog for kidney symptoms or to
put the dog on a preventaive diet assumign that damage had occured
which was medically impossible not to, which only shows up on blood
tests when the dog is down to 30% or less of kidney left and
functioning.

The dog started consuming more and more water compensating for kidney
damage after 2 rounds of chemotherapy with adriamycin and carboplastin.

She started not feeling well, and rejecting methioform, which the
manufacturer and literature states they do if they have kidney
problems.

She also then started losing her appetite which is what the nausea from
not clearing kidney toxins does too.

Calling VSA caused them to shout and demand that she see an oncologist,
as a dog receiving no preventive or ordinary vet care at all, who
should have been on preventive kidney diet etc. if she had received
chemo at all, and never had any NSAID's again.

Then her lack of rehab from anybody about the leg amputation caused her
to develop pain from arthritis in the reminaing leg doing double duty.

And VSA told me to give her Rimadyl.

Which threw her into acute kidney failure just as Pfizers warns it can.
All I knew at the time was she had acute GI distress in under 2 days,
despite other pain relief.

I of course took her to ER vet at VSA.

Then the ER care for the dog was refused claiming the dog had not been
seen by an oncologist for months and demanded they do nothing until she
was.

Then VSA threw harassment at us scheduling and then cancelling the dog
seeing anybody as a dog they kept claiming "must have major tumors"
causing her pain, which a later x-ray from someone who bothered 45
minutes away in Chicago the one day she did not have GI symptoms,
indicated was arthritis in the remaining leg and they prescribed
continuing the pain meds not knowing she had kidney damage, and rehab
as well as treating her gently as a geriatric being pulled around by
younger dogs on 4 legs where she had 3.

That was the last day she ate a meal.

The next morning she threw up water, and I got her into a regular vet
the next day, who immediately did bloodwork and called the next day, a
week after her acute kidney failure was blocked from all normal
veterinary care by VSA, to have to tell me she was going to die with
kidney values so high that ASPCA told me that normally if they are that
high when they start fluid therapy, they do not come down and the dogs
kidneys do not restart, which they can if when I had taken her to VSA
they had done the appropriate work up with x-ray and bloodwork or even
that Friday when I had gotten off work at 2 pm and could have taken the
dog to Chicago as she had GI that day enough to cause a vet to run her
bloodwork, when there was stil time.

Instead, we tried anyway, and she got better for one day when she ate
just a little, and the next day her bloodwork had not changed much and
I took her home as her kidneys shut down and had to drive the dog to
Chicago to put my beloved companion to sleep on Christmas Eve who died
form profiteering and cruelty.

I believe the Rimidyl issue is being publicized by Pfizer and the
Senior Pets project.

The literature indicating carboplastin causes kidney damage too, and
that any animal that receives chemo like that should be handled
assuming they have major kidney damage afterwards, is not, and that VSA
is not telling patients to do so and is killing dogs who in her case,
were cancer free and had no reason to die but gross negligence and
cruelty.

That most of us as I did not, do not have the money for the amputations
and chemotherapy, or trying to save her anyway after she went into
acute kidney failure, is another issue for most of us in that if you
are doing to do so, you need to find some way to make sure you are
given truthful information when you do try as I did, to save a beloved
companion who had every reason to live out a normal life but for the
negligence and cruelty of not providing her or use with truthful
information that the chemo was not likely to not have done severe
kidney damage which the same vet then caused to kill the dog within 3
months of completing chemotherapy blocking off all the vet care
required for a dog with kidney damage for fraudelent money demands for
what she did not have, which was cancer.

I think everybody needs to know that these people may kill the cancers,
but their insenstiive profiteering of people who dont' have the money,
then is killing the dogs with what they did to them to kill the cancers
as used to be the way many people died from chemotherapy prior to their
cancers killing them.

And that it does not have to be that way, and that you should be given
informed consent about the kidney damage with carboplastin because in
an older dog, like mine, they get kidney disease anyway and the
combination may be so likely to kill the dog that the cruelties and
pain and suffering of the process maybe should be replaced with hospice
if as in this case, the chemo was likely to kill the dog as it did when
they did not treat her for kidney damage.

  #2  
Old January 21st 07, 08:41 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Sharon Too
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Posts: 664
Default Veterinary Specialty Center Misuse of Medication and Profit Gouging Killing a Dog

It has become harder and harder to care for pets due to the veterinary
medicine turning into making profits, not practicing medical care for
animals,


Question. Exactly how do you propose animal hospitals pay their overhead and
wages? And are you proposing that veterinary medicine become a total
charitable occupation? I'm sorry you had a bad experience, but I can't see
how convincing veterinarians and their staffs to work without wages, and
their suppliers and others they pay to keep afloat to not get paid would
ever attract the best and brightest to join the profession.


  #3  
Old January 22nd 07, 07:55 PM
Mickee Mickee is offline
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Question. Exactly how do you propose animal hospitals pay their overhead and
wages? And are you proposing that veterinary medicine become a total
charitable occupation? I'm sorry you had a bad experience, but I can't see
how convincing veterinarians and their staffs to work without wages, and
their suppliers and others they pay to keep afloat to not get paid would
ever attract the best and brightest to join the profession.[/quote]




All I ask is fair charges. I mean I don't want an office vist charge that is so high for doing nothing, but walking in the door. I want medication to be reasonable. I bought drontal from the vet and got 2 pills for $26 with no office visit. I just walked in paid for them and walked out. I went home and found I could order them online for $2/pill. So $4 versus $26 is way over charging.

I realize they are in a business to make money and I am not asking for charity for my pets, but I don't want to be robbed either. If shot clinics can give shots for $8, why would I go to the vet pay $40 office visit and then $20 for the shot. If that is not over charging I don't know what is.

All I ask and I assume the thread starter wants is fair charges. No just up the price becasue you can or because you have an overly emotional human about their pet.

I had to pay$50 to put a pet rat to sleep. It does not cost that much for dog, much less this tiny sickly rat that probably didn't need much medication at all. Fair charges. That is what we want and need.

If the charges were fair then there would be more pets taken to the vet more often and for better medical care. But when you have to choose whether to have food on the table, or utilities paid or take the pet to the vet sometimes as hard a decision as it is the pet will lose out.

Just my 2 cents worth and totally my opinion,

Mickee
  #4  
Old January 23rd 07, 04:37 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Sharon Too
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Posts: 664
Default Veterinary Specialty Center Misuse of Medication and Profit Gouging Killing a Dog

I realize they are in a business to make money and I am not asking for
charity for my pets, but I don't want to be robbed either. If shot
clinics can give shots for $8, why would I go to the vet pay $40 office
visit and then $20 for the shot.


You get what you pay for. Cold but true. If you want to go to a clinic for
shots where a thorough exam is not done first - go right ahead. But when you
opt to go to a full functioning animal hospital your charges cover the cost
of the business. And some of them a

employee wages
disability insurance
workmans compensation insurance
building/grounds and general liability insurance
malpractice insurance
continuing education for all staff
cost of supplies including pharmaceuticals
surgical (if relavent)
postage and office supplies
janitorial supplies
building and grounds maintenance
school and property taxes
accounting/bookkeeping and legal
purchase and maintenance of all medical equipment in all departments
including exam rooms, kennels, ICU, Post-op, bathing/clipping, radiology,
laboratory etc...
computers/fax machines/photocopiers/printers and maintenance of them as well
as software
pension plans
health insurance for employees
cost of losses for clients who don't pay and have to be written off
permits/license/fees/inspections/accreditations from local, state, federal
and accreditation entities
safety training & safety materials
the 10 years of college and vet school that gets more and more costly each
year...

....and on and on.

Try taking your dog to Alameda East (Animal Planet's Emergency Vet show) and
there you'll really see sticker shock, but they've got all the bells and
whistles like board certified everything and MRI among other toys. Most
animal hospitals don't have those, but they *are* miniature hospitals like
the ones you and I go to. Sometime when you go to your hospital for a
work-up, ask for an itemized print out and you'll see that your broken leg
cost $6,000 to work up and treat whereas your vet charged about $700.

Feel free to shop around your veterinary care, but in the end you have to be
very comfortable with the doctor providing the care 24 hours a day. Ask your
pediatrician to cheapen it up and see what he/she says.


  #5  
Old January 23rd 07, 11:05 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Melinda Shore
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Default Veterinary Specialty Center Misuse of Medication and Profit Gouging Killing a Dog

In article ,
Sharon Too wrote:
You get what you pay for. Cold but true.


Nah, not really. Price doesn't reflect quality. Price is a
point of agreement between buyer and seller. A veterinary
business is expensive to run and I thought listing some of
those expenses was illuminating and helpful, but "you get
what you pay for" is one of those truisms that looks less
true the more closely you look at it.

It's probably closer to true to say "you don't get what you
don't pay for" but even that's not completely true.
--
Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis -

Prouder than ever to be a member of the reality-based community
  #6  
Old January 23rd 07, 05:00 PM
Mickee Mickee is offline
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Another example of what I found was that the vet wanted $800 for treatment of HW and you could go to the SPCA clinic for $231. To some people it might not be that big a deal, but to me that was huge.

I agree you usually get what you pay for, but I have a problem with thinking a $20 rabies vaccine and a $8 rabies vaccine could be much different.

If I were going to have a procedure or surgery, etc. I would search out what I could afford in a vet others had used with use results.

Even for myself, I don't have insurance and have had no healthcare of years and if I ever get any it will be public healthcare.

Mickee
  #7  
Old January 23rd 07, 07:22 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
diddy
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Default Veterinary Specialty Center Misuse of Medication and Profit Gouging Killing a Dog

in thread : Mickee
whittled the following words:

Another example of what I found was that the vet wanted $800 for
treatment of HW and you could go to the SPCA clinic for $231. To some
people it might not be that big a deal, but to me that was huge.

I agree you usually get what you pay for, but I have a problem with
thinking a $20 rabies vaccine and a $8 rabies vaccine could be much
different.

If I were going to have a procedure or surgery, etc. I would search out
what I could afford in a vet others had used with use results.

Even for myself, I don't have insurance and have had no healthcare of
years and if I ever get any it will be public healthcare.

Mickee





What you don't get is that if there is a problem with a dog, and it's not
caught through a physical exam, and you vaccinate anyway, there is a
possibility that the vaccination doesn't take. Rather than treat the
compromising problem and vaccinating later at a more opportune time, if you
just vaccinated for nothing, you just threw $8 down the drain.
The physical exams are in the best interest for your dog.
  #8  
Old January 24th 07, 03:52 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Alphonse Q Muthafuyer
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Default Veterinary Specialty Center Misuse of Medication and Profit Gouging Killing a Dog

On Mon, 22 Jan 2007 23:37:42 -0500, "Sharon Too" wrote:

I realize they are in a business to make money and I am not asking for
charity for my pets, but I don't want to be robbed either. If shot
clinics can give shots for $8, why would I go to the vet pay $40 office
visit and then $20 for the shot.


You get what you pay for.


That can be "Spot On" in some circumstances.

And Decidly Untrue in others.

...

Can we at least be upfront about any potential bias that might
underlie our comments?

I, for one, have never earned a dollar from any endeavor
connected in any way with veterinary medicine/practice.

How 'bout "Sharon Too"??

Al

"The monkey and the baboon was playing 7-up.
The monkey won the money but he scared to pick it up.
The monkey stumbled, mama.
The baboon fell.
The monkey grab the money and he run like hell!"
- from "Dirty Motherfuyer", Roosevelt Sykes, around 1935
  #9  
Old January 24th 07, 04:20 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Sharon Too
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Posts: 664
Default Veterinary Specialty Center Misuse of Medication and Profit Gouging Killing a Dog

How 'bout "Sharon Too"??

Yep. Most here know that my husband and I own an animal hospital - I manage
it. We also contribute to many, many charities, humane organizations and
provide oodles of free services. We don't vacation regularly and live very
modestly. But, really, why must I defend my occupation? Shame on us for
taking 20 years to pay our college debts, make sure our employees can
support their families and have adequate health care and be available 24/7
for our clients at the expense of a normal family environment for our
children? No. Again, you get what you pay for and I'm proud of our team and
what they do for, and sacrfice for, the pet members of our clients'
families.


  #10  
Old January 24th 07, 06:40 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
~Karen~
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Default Veterinary Specialty Center Misuse of Medication and Profit GougingKilling a Dog

Mickee wrote:
Another example of what I found was that the vet wanted $800 for
treatment of HW and you could go to the SPCA clinic for $231. To some
people it might not be that big a deal, but to me that was huge.


In the area where I live the low cost clinics and HS are receiving
financial support from grants and public donations. The private vet
clinics are not. When my animals must stay at the vet's clinic
overnight the clinic has had to purchase the bedding, food bowls and in
the case of my cat, the cat litter. The local HS has all of those items
donated to them by the general public. The vet clinic must purchase
medications that I then purchase from them. The local HS gets a lot of
it's medications as donations from the drug companies and ones that they
pay for are often offered at a discount that the vet's clinic is not
able to receive.

I agree you usually get what you pay for, but I have a problem with
thinking a $20 rabies vaccine and a $8 rabies vaccine could be much
different.


The vaccines are probably exactly the same and from the same company but
that does not mean that the cost of the vaccine was exactly the same for
the vet's clinic to purchase as a grant supported low-cost clinic. In
the area where I live there are two free clinics per month where the
homeless can get free care for their animals. The only reason this is
possible is that the local vets donate their time off to make it happen
for these unfortunate people and their animals.

If I were going to have a procedure or surgery, etc. I would search out
what I could afford in a vet others had used with use results.


I have been going to the same vet for 20+ years. I am so grateful for a
long standing relationship with the clinic. I can walk in through those
doors with my pet in my arms, declare I have an emergancy, and find
myself hurried right into the back room with the receptionist hot on my
heels with the chart already in hand. I know I can because it's
happened exactly that way. There isn't any time wasted because my vet
knows my animals and knows me.
~Karen~

Even for myself, I don't have insurance and have had no healthcare of
years and if I ever get any it will be public healthcare.

Mickee




 




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