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? about ivermectin



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 5th 07, 02:08 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Janice
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Posts: 4
Default ? about ivermectin

Does anyone here worm their dogs with ivermectin once a month instead of
heartgaurd for heartworms? Heartgaurd is ivermectin and pyrantel.

I was fostering a dog for a rescue that had mange which was treated with
ivermectin and antibiotics. I asked the vet if she needed heartgaurd
also. She told me the ivermectin would kill any heartworms in the blood.

I can buy ivermectin much cheaper than heartgaurd. I have 3 dogs that
weigh just under 100 lbs.

http://community.webtv.net/petmom57/ArtByJanice

  #2  
Old February 5th 07, 05:53 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Scott
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Posts: 12
Default ? about ivermectin

I do and I know of a breeder that does. I get mine from a
holistic/wellness vet.

Janice wrote:
Does anyone here worm their dogs with ivermectin once a month instead of
heartgaurd for heartworms? Heartgaurd is ivermectin and pyrantel.

I was fostering a dog for a rescue that had mange which was treated with
ivermectin and antibiotics. I asked the vet if she needed heartgaurd
also. She told me the ivermectin would kill any heartworms in the blood.

I can buy ivermectin much cheaper than heartgaurd. I have 3 dogs that
weigh just under 100 lbs.

http://community.webtv.net/petmom57/ArtByJanice



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  #4  
Old February 6th 07, 01:44 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Janice
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Posts: 4
Default ? about ivermectin Puddin Man)


I want to use ivermectin as a preventative. It is 1.87%, same as
heartgaurd. The paste for horses can be measured in 50 lb. increments.

Thanks for the info. Janice


Does anyone here worm their dogs with ivermectin once a month instead of
heartgaurd for heartworms? Heartgaurd is ivermectin and pyrantel.
I was fostering a dog for a rescue that had mange which was treated with
ivermectin and antibiotics. I asked the vet if she needed heartgaurd
also. She told me the ivermectin would kill any heartworms in the blood.
I can buy ivermectin
In what form/strength?
To be used as HW preventative? HW "Cure"??
much cheaper than heartgaurd. I have 3 dogs that weigh just under 100
lbs.

Suggest you read up on both ivermectin:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivermectin
and Heartworm:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heartworm

http://community.webtv.net/petmom57/ArtByJanice

  #5  
Old February 6th 07, 01:47 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Janice
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Posts: 4
Default ? about ivermectin (Scott)

Thanks for the response, Janice

http://community.webtv.net/petmom57/ArtByJanice

  #6  
Old February 6th 07, 04:03 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Puddin' Man
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Posts: 26
Default ? about ivermectin Puddin Man)

On Mon, 5 Feb 2007 20:44:36 -0500, (Janice) wrote:


I want to use ivermectin as a preventative.


For dog(s).

It is 1.87%, same as
heartgaurd. The paste for horses can be measured in 50 lb. increments.


I've not seen any Heartgard that is 1.87% ivermectin.

For dog HW preventative, A solution of 1.87% ivermectin
can be very difficult to properly measure (a dosage).

From
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivermectin

Some dog breeds, most notably the collie, exhibit signs of
ivermectin related central nervous system toxicity at ivermectin
doses exceeding 150 to 200 g/kg.

Thanks for the info. Janice


Good Luck,
Puddin'


Does anyone here worm their dogs with ivermectin once a month instead of
heartgaurd for heartworms? Heartgaurd is ivermectin and pyrantel.
I was fostering a dog for a rescue that had mange which was treated with
ivermectin and antibiotics. I asked the vet if she needed heartgaurd
also. She told me the ivermectin would kill any heartworms in the blood.
I can buy ivermectin
In what form/strength?
To be used as HW preventative? HW "Cure"??
much cheaper than heartgaurd. I have 3 dogs that weigh just under 100
lbs.

Suggest you read up on both ivermectin:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivermectin
and Heartworm:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heartworm

http://community.webtv.net/petmom57/ArtByJanice


"Life is nothing but a competition to be the criminal rather
than the victim."
- Bertrand Russell

  #7  
Old February 6th 07, 01:37 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
buglady
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Posts: 863
Default ? about ivermectin Puddin Man)


"Janice" wrote in message
...

I want to use ivermectin as a preventative. It is 1.87%, same as
heartgaurd. The paste for horses can be measured in 50 lb. increments.


...........I think it's cattle Ivomec (1% Ivermectin) that should be used.
There is someone who uses Ivomec who had a long post about how to calculate
dosages.
http://tinyurl.com/yq3npq

.......Don't use Ivomec Plus for cattle. You can look at all Merial products
here. Horse Ivermectin is called EQVALAN:
http://merialusa.naccvp.com/prodlist...country&p=msds

There's also many other postings on this issue if you search Google archives
for this group using ivermectin cattle. The above post, though, is the most
thorough. And the correct dose for dogs is 6 micrograms per kilo body
weight of dog as this poster states. You can check this at the CVM/FDA site
or read a box of Heartgard.

The dose of ivermectin per kg BW is much higher for horses so you cannot go
by the suggestes doses on the paste tube. I don't think you can calculate
the dose very well with a paste. They do make a drench for horses, but
you'd have to check all the ingredients to make sure they're safe for dogs.
Horses and dogs are not at all the same. They don't mention what else is in
the paste either.
http://merialusa.naccvp.com/view.php?prodnum=1111012
This syringe contains sufficient paste to treat one 1250 lb horse at the
recommended dose rate of 91 mcg ivermectin per lb (200 mcg/kg) body weight.

Even better might be IVOMEC (ivermectin) Injection for Grower and Feeder
Pigs which is .27% Ivermectin. This looks to be the same as cattle Ivomec
only less concentrated. The lower the percentage of ivermectin the better as
it gives you more control over dosages, since you'll be giving a very tiny
amount.

If I ever were to do this, I'd sit down and figure it all out for myself if
my vet wouldn't help me.

buglady
take out the dog before replying


  #8  
Old February 6th 07, 03:41 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Susan Fraser
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Posts: 65
Default ? about ivermectin Puddin Man)

I use Ivermectin, the cow kind, and a small tuberuclin syringe (sans
needel of course), which pokes right thru the rubber seal, draw up a
fraction of a cc just like I was drawing up an injection, and then
squirt directly in the dog's mouth. Fast and easy.

SF

  #9  
Old February 11th 07, 01:36 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Joe Johnston
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Posts: 15
Default ? about ivermectin

"Janice" wrote in message
...
Does anyone here worm their dogs with ivermectin once a month instead of
heartgaurd for heartworms? Heartgaurd is ivermectin and pyrantel.

I was fostering a dog for a rescue that had mange which was treated with
ivermectin and antibiotics. I asked the vet if she needed heartgaurd
also. She told me the ivermectin would kill any heartworms in the blood.

I can buy ivermectin much cheaper than heartgaurd. I have 3 dogs that
weigh just under 100 lbs.

http://community.webtv.net/petmom57/ArtByJanice




(Those who are interested in this subject but have read this old post
before might want to skip to the new info, generally bordered by
rows of ********************)

This addresses the issue of correct monthly dosage of
Ivomec (1% ivermectin) solution for PREVENTION of
heartworms in dogs. It is not about the much higher
dosages of ivermectin required to treat canine intestinal
worms or external parasites.

First, some abbreviations used in this post, posts by
others, and on websites containing heartworm and ivermectin
information:
one gram = one thousand milligrams = 1,000 mg
one gram = one million micrograms = 1,000,000 mcg = 1,000,000 ug
one thousand grams = one kilogram = 1 kg = 2.20462 pounds
one liter = one thousand milliters = 1000 mL
one milliter = 1 mL = almost exactly 1 cc (cubic centimeter)

From several websites, including ones that have Freedom
Of Information copies of the original ivermectin clinical
trials, the recommended dosage rate of ivermectin for
PREVENTION of heartworms in dogs is 6mcg/kg.

That's SIX micrograms of ivermectin per kilogram of dog.

The datasheet that came with the bottle of 1% (one percent)
sterile solution of Ivomec bought from a local feed store
indicates that if given to CATTLE at a rate of 1mL/110lb
(one milliliter of solution per one hundred ten pounds of
animal), that the CATTLE would receive a dosage rate of
200mcg/kg.

That's TWO HUNDRED micrograms of ivermectin per kilogram
of cow, bull, calf, etc., or 33.333 times the dosage rate
appropriate for dogs.

Therefore, to calculate the amount of 1% (one percent)
solution to give to my dogs I had to reduce the 1mL/110lb of
cattle down to 0.030mL/110lb (three hundredths of one
milliliter of Ivomec [1% ivermectin] solution per one
hundred ten pounds) of dog.

So "Lady", who weighs about 55 (fifty-five) pounds, needs
0.015mL (one and one-half hundredths of a milliliter) of
1% Ivomec solution each month.

The same answer to the dosage question can be achieved another
way. The Ivomec (1% ivermectin solution) label states in two
places that each mL of Ivomec contains 10 mg of ivermectin.
10 mg (milligrams) equals 10,000 mcg or ug (micrograms). The
correct dosage is only SIX mcg per kg (kilogram) of dog.
That's six mcg per 2.20462 pounds of dog. So the 55 pound
"Lady" mentioned above would need (6/10,000) X (55/2.20462) mL
or 0.015 mL of the 1% variety of Ivomec each month.

The pharmacy in the local Wal-Mart Supercenter sells tiny
disposable applicators (like syringes without needles, some
pharmacists refer to them as oral syringes) that hold only
one milliliter of solution, with a graduation for each
hundredth of a milliliter (Update: the last batch I bought of
this same brand of applicator has half as many graduations,
one for each fiftieth of a milliliter). Removing one of these
plastic applicators and the 1% Ivomec solution from my
refrigerator (where I keep both stored), I found during the
first test that 23 actual free-fall drops (as opposed to the
unreliable "dps" graduation scale included on some of the
aforementioned applicators) equaled 0.61mL of solution, and
during the second test that 33 free-fall drops equaled 0.91mL
of solution. Using the total of 56 free-fall drops being
equal to 1.52mL, each one of those drops of 1% Ivomec
calculated to be 0.0271428mL . Comparing this amount to the
desired dosage of 0.0300000mL of 1% Ivomec solution per 110
pounds of dog (see paragraph above beginning with the word
"Therefore"), each one of those particular drops would be the
correct amount to give to a dog weighing 99.5 pounds.

Keep in mind that free-fall drops can be different sizes.
Volume contained in each drop of 1% Ivomec is affected by
temperature of the solution, temperature of the applicator,
applicator material (plastic versus glass), how clean or dirty
the applicator is, and the size and shape of that portion of
the applicator which is close to the opening. For that reason
it is a good idea to do your own tests to determine the drops
per mL relationship, and to IGNORE any graduated scale (on
some applicators) which claims to represent "drops" instead of
hundredths or fiftieths of a mL.

**********************************************
Also, unless you squirt the drug on the back of your dog's
tongue, you don't know how much of the ivermectin will be
absorbed and how much might be excreted with undigested dog treat
or food. And if you decide to put the drug on your dog's everyday
food instead of a treat, you have to make sure that the dog
consumes all of the drug during one meal.
**********************************************

It is easier for me to apply a single drop of 1% Ivomec
solution to an absorbent dog treat than to the back of a dog's
tongue. This also keeps the applicator clean enough to store in
a baggie in the refrigerator, instead of throwing it away. I
refrigerate the 50mL bottle of Ivomec also. I put the drug on
breaded chicken patties after they have cooled to room
temperature, to avoid any possible drug breakdown due to heat.

Note that a single drop of 1% Ivomec solution is almost a
2 to 1 overdose for "Lady", and more than a 2 to 1 overdose
for my several 45-pound dogs. In clinical tests even Collies
had to have an overdose of at least 15 to 1 before they showed
any ill effects. It would be reasonable to assume that there
are some dogs who are even more sensitive to ivermectin than
any of the relative few who were in the clinical trials.....

**********************************************
but also reasonable to assume that a 4 to 1 overdose is not
dangerous, and that UNDERdosing is. For the past two years or
so I have been giving my dogs TWO of these drops, with no ill
effects that I can see. I don't like overdosing, but its the
possibility of underdosing that really worries me.
**********************************************

A Heartgard Chewable for dogs 51 to 100 pounds delivers
272 mcg of ivermectin according to the label. One kilogram
equals 2.20462 pounds. Considering the recommended dosage
rate of 6 mcg per kilogram of dog, this means the Chewable
is formulated for 100 pound dogs, with 51 to 99 pound dogs
receiving a harmless overdose. I keep this in mind when
dealing with the difficulty of precise measurement of
small amounts of ivermectin solution.


Joe


  #10  
Old February 11th 07, 01:54 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.health
Joe Johnston
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Posts: 15
Default ? about ivermectin

Drops that fall from the tip of a syringe needle will be MUCH
smaller that those that fall from the tip of the applicator I
describe in my other current post. Using a refrigerated 1 mL
insulin syringe with 28 (twenty-eight) gauge needle, and refrig-
erated 1% Ivermectin, I found that 221 (two hundred twenty-one)
free-fall drops equaled 0.615 mL. So each of those drops was only
about 0.002782805 mL, which is the appropriate amount of 1%
ivermectin to give to a dog weighing 10.2 pounds. HOWEVER, if I
decide to start using this syringe with 28 gauge needle instead of
the non-needle applicator I refer to in my other current post, I
I will pretend that each of these tiny drops is only enough 1%
ivermectin to treat 4 (four) pounds of dog, and will also round
the calculated dosage up to the next whole drop. The reason being
that once we get past using the extreme overdoses sometimes
mentioned online (the most common is one mL of 1% ivermectin per
one hundred pounds of dog), I believe the greatest remaining
danger is UNDERdosing our dogs. Other posters may disagree.

I made measurements using the syringe with 28 gauge needle today,
2007/02/10, after determining that such insulin syringes can be
ordered online without a prescription.

I did this because my pharmacist will no longer sell me the oral
applicators I referred to in my other post. He's worried about
illegal drugs and hungry lawyers, even though no needle is
involved.


Joe


 




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