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What do dogs REALLY see?



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 15th 07, 12:24 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
diddy
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Posts: 1,077
Default What do dogs REALLY see?

I was just playing "find the Duck" with Tuck. I hide the duck REALLY well
expecting him to use his nose to find it. (I hid it in a closed cupboard)

After searching for awhile and not finding it, he started bringing me
everything yellow in the room.

I know dogs do not have the color cones in their eyes to see yellow. His
Duck is Yellow. So why was it he was only selecting yellow items?
If you have a black and white picture, you cannot tell which items are
yellow (vs a tan)

so what do dogs see?
  #2  
Old March 15th 07, 12:34 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
diddy
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Posts: 1,077
Default What do dogs REALLY see?

in thread : diddy
whittled the following words:

I was just playing "find the Duck" with Tuck. I hide the duck REALLY
well expecting him to use his nose to find it. (I hid it in a closed
cupboard)

After searching for awhile and not finding it, he started bringing me
everything yellow in the room.

I know dogs do not have the color cones in their eyes to see yellow.
His Duck is Yellow. So why was it he was only selecting yellow items?
If you have a black and white picture, you cannot tell which items are
yellow (vs a tan)

so what do dogs see?


I've been corrected, Dogs CAN see yellow


Dogs can see colors, not like how human see colors.

http://www.puplife.com/dogcaretips/h...seecolors.html

These experiments showed that dogs do see color, but in a more
limited range than that seen by normal humans, who see the rainbow
of colors described by "VIBGYOR": Violet, Indigo, Blue, Green,
Yellow, Orange, and Red (plus hundreds of variations on these
shades). Instead, dogs see "VIBYYYR" (Violet, Indigo, Blue,
Yellow, Yellow, Yellow, and Red). The colors Green, Yellow, and
Orange all look alike to dogs; but look different from Red and
different from the various Blues and Purples. Dogs are very good
at telling different shades of VIB apart. Finally, Blue-Green
looks White to dogs.

The simple explanation for these differences in color vision is
this. The retinas of normal humans have three (3) types of
color receptors, called "cones". Each cone type is particularly
sensitive to light of a narrow limit within the entire VIBGYOR
range. That means that three different "cone lines" of
communication run back to the visual part of the brain, which
then compares the weight of the signals coming in from each of
cone "line". Different weights produce a perception of different
colors. In dogs (and in "green-blind" humans), there are only
two (2) types of cones, so there is less basis for comparison by
the brain, and thus the perceived color range is more limited. In
sum, dog color vision is "color-limited", not "color-blind".
  #3  
Old March 15th 07, 09:12 AM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Alison
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Posts: 26
Default What do dogs REALLY see?

This is very useful for people that don't know about dogs vision but I'm a
bit surprised you didn't know the basics of this. Vision and hearing etc is
one of the first things you learn when studying behaviour of any animal
including humans.

--
Alison


"diddy" wrote in message
...
in thread : diddy
whittled the following words:

I was just playing "find the Duck" with Tuck. I hide the duck REALLY
well expecting him to use his nose to find it. (I hid it in a closed
cupboard)

After searching for awhile and not finding it, he started bringing me
everything yellow in the room.

I know dogs do not have the color cones in their eyes to see yellow.
His Duck is Yellow. So why was it he was only selecting yellow items?
If you have a black and white picture, you cannot tell which items are
yellow (vs a tan)

so what do dogs see?


I've been corrected, Dogs CAN see yellow


Dogs can see colors, not like how human see colors.

http://www.puplife.com/dogcaretips/h...seecolors.html

These experiments showed that dogs do see color, but in a more
limited range than that seen by normal humans, who see the rainbow
of colors described by "VIBGYOR": Violet, Indigo, Blue, Green,
Yellow, Orange, and Red (plus hundreds of variations on these
shades). Instead, dogs see "VIBYYYR" (Violet, Indigo, Blue,
Yellow, Yellow, Yellow, and Red). The colors Green, Yellow, and
Orange all look alike to dogs; but look different from Red and
different from the various Blues and Purples. Dogs are very good
at telling different shades of VIB apart. Finally, Blue-Green
looks White to dogs.

The simple explanation for these differences in color vision is
this. The retinas of normal humans have three (3) types of
color receptors, called "cones". Each cone type is particularly
sensitive to light of a narrow limit within the entire VIBGYOR
range. That means that three different "cone lines" of
communication run back to the visual part of the brain, which
then compares the weight of the signals coming in from each of
cone "line". Different weights produce a perception of different
colors. In dogs (and in "green-blind" humans), there are only
two (2) types of cones, so there is less basis for comparison by
the brain, and thus the perceived color range is more limited. In
sum, dog color vision is "color-limited", not "color-blind".



  #4  
Old March 15th 07, 04:14 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
FurPaw
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,469
Default What do dogs REALLY see?

Alison wrote:
This is very useful for people that don't know about dogs vision but I'm a
bit surprised you didn't know the basics of this. Vision and hearing etc is
one of the first things you learn when studying behaviour of any animal
including humans.


When I first took a college course in ethology and animal
behavior (back in 1969, that was), dogs could not see in color.
Nor could most non-primate mammals.

The discovery that dogs not only have the equipment (cones) to
see in color, but could behaviorally discriminate between
different colors (when brightness was held constant or made
irrelevant to the discrimination), was made sometime later.
(Either that, or my instructor and textbook hadn't caught up with
the research. Which wouldn't be surprising. Many (most?)
anatomy textbooks don't discuss "nerve zero," the 13th cranial
nerve.)

So if diddy's experience was anything like my own, canine vision
could actually have one of the first aspects of canine behavior
that she studied. G

FurPaw

--
My family values don't involve depleted uranium.

To reply, unleash the dog.
  #5  
Old March 15th 07, 04:27 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
diddy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,077
Default What do dogs REALLY see?

in thread : FurPaw
whittled the following words:

Alison wrote:
This is very useful for people that don't know about dogs vision but
I'm a bit surprised you didn't know the basics of this. Vision and
hearing etc is one of the first things you learn when studying
behaviour of any animal including humans.


When I first took a college course in ethology and animal
behavior (back in 1969, that was), dogs could not see in color.
Nor could most non-primate mammals.

The discovery that dogs not only have the equipment (cones) to
see in color, but could behaviorally discriminate between
different colors (when brightness was held constant or made
irrelevant to the discrimination), was made sometime later.
(Either that, or my instructor and textbook hadn't caught up with
the research. Which wouldn't be surprising. Many (most?)
anatomy textbooks don't discuss "nerve zero," the 13th cranial
nerve.)

So if diddy's experience was anything like my own, canine vision
could actually have one of the first aspects of canine behavior
that she studied. G

FurPaw


Thank you.
I truly believed dogs were color blind, although I was aware that there
were a few shades of color dogs could see.

I was not aware that they could see as much color as the Tuck indicated.

When he was frustrated because he could not find his yellow duck, and
started bringing me everything yellow in the room, I knew immediately that
I HAD to look up what the latest in Dog color detection was. Something just
wasn't right here.He brought me a yellow pen (marker), a yellow work glove,
a yellow envelope, and a yellow piece of paper. But NOT his yellow duck.

Which indicates to me he has a training problem, he thinks I'm asking him
to find something YELLOW. So I'm going to handle some of his other toys,
let him hold them, and send him to find those until he realizes I'm asking
him to find articles of certain SCENT, and not colors.
  #6  
Old March 15th 07, 04:39 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Shelly
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,103
Default What do dogs REALLY see?

diddy wrote:

a yellow pen (marker),


Ha! Did you read the great pen debate?

--
Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)
  #7  
Old March 15th 07, 04:55 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Handsome Jack Morrison
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Posts: 3,772
Default What do dogs REALLY see?

On Thu, 15 Mar 2007 09:14:42 -0600, FurPaw
wrote:

[...]
When I first took a college course in ethology and animal
behavior (back in 1969, that was), dogs could not see in color.
Nor could most non-primate mammals.


Oh my God.

Was the "consensus" opinion proven wrong?

How can that be?

It was the *consensus*!!!

Heh.

--
Handsome Jack Morrison

Scientists threatened with death for 'climate denial'!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.../ngreen211.xml
The Great Global Warming Swindle - the video:
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?doc...global+warming
Why so much medical research is rot:
http://www.economist.com/science/dis...ory_id=8733754
  #8  
Old March 15th 07, 05:51 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Shelly
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,103
Default What do dogs REALLY see?

diddy wrote:

Sure did
and I was thinking of just writing pen, and let people think he brought me
a play pen.


snort

--
Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)
  #9  
Old March 15th 07, 06:04 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
Shelly
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,103
Default What do dogs REALLY see?

montana wildhack wrote:

Yabbut, we still have that big fabric pop-up crate, and Miss Bella
learned how to be inside it and walk it end-over-end down a hall, so it
would be quite possible for her to "bring her play-pen."


Exactly. It could happen, so specificity is good. Also, the above
requires video documentation.

And didn't you have at least one dog who would pick up straight pins /
needles?


Not that I recall. Or do you mean Diddy?

--
Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)
  #10  
Old March 15th 07, 06:29 PM posted to rec.pets.dogs.behavior
diddy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,077
Default What do dogs REALLY see?

in thread news:2007031512585975249-montana@wildhackcominvalid: montana
wildhack whittled the following words:

On 2007-03-15 12:51:04 -0400, Shelly said:

diddy wrote:

Sure did
and I was thinking of just writing pen, and let people think he
brought me a play pen.


snort


Yabbut, we still have that big fabric pop-up crate, and Miss Bella
learned how to be inside it and walk it end-over-end down a hall, so
it would be quite possible for her to "bring her play-pen."

And didn't you have at least one dog who would pick up straight pins /
needles?



Tuck, Reka and Danny all bring/brought/picked up straight
pins,needles,razor blades.
But a written pin, is completely different than the written pen. (and to
me, they don't even sound the same)

otoh
pen (ink)
pen (marking)
pen (play)
pen (verb)
and the list goes on and on, is very difficult to distinguish, sometimes
even in written context unless there is a descriptor identifying what you
are talking about.
 




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